Sand Valley September trip booked...tips/advice/experience please!

[The Milkman]

55 minutes ago, srs06d said:

Could the confusion possibly be that "plus gratuity" is ambiguous?

Plus tip is always ambiguous. A caddie costs $100 plus tip. That part is up to the player. A $0 tip will probably result in an unhappy caddy just the same as it would a waiter, a barber or a bartender. 

 

And tipping isn't always a percentage of the cost of the service. Give a valet driver like $2 regardless of its a free valet or $40. Tip a bartender a $1-2 on a drink regardless of the price of the drink. Give a caddie $20-$50. 

[eboettne]

1 hour ago, cassel191919 said:

Always curious, why is 40 to 50 percent tip the way to go with caddies but no other service?

 

 I don't think it's always the way to go but it's generally what I give for a caddy that's really solid.  I've also tipped $20 at Whistling Straits for a caddy that had been on the course once.  He was fine but had no course knowledge.

 

In my mind, could be right or wrong, caddying is a physically demanding profession and if you're out there grinding with me for 5 hours and a solid hang you deserve at least $30/hour.

[ode1]

19 minutes ago, srs06d said:

Could the confusion possibly be that "plus gratuity" is ambiguous?

IMO it is not.  Do others think it should say gratuity is required🤔.   I just thought this was understood! The only thing that is up in the air is how much the gratuity is going to be.  It's well publicized that experiences range from poor to great.  IMO it's not worth the caddie fee + tip to roll the dice, so I would NEVER take a caddie if it were not required.  I would however tip someone else's caddie if they helped me out during a round....which I did do the first time I played SV.  The 2nd time around I forecaddied for my buddy......it was an impromptu round as weather where we were scheduled was ⚡ so we switched gears and played LA Pines in the a.m. and SV in the p.m.  we both walk most rounds and push, so it was a natural fit.  SV is not a difficult walk, nor is it overly tricky.  I felt no pressure to take a caddie, nor was any put on me to do so.   Up to each player to decide....but if people are NOT going to tip above the fee, then that is out of bounds IMO and poor form.  Poor service is a different thing altogether....I would take it up with caddie master and/or SV for it to be addressed! I'd still feel obligated, but understand if others do not.

[Drwoods2017]

1 hour ago, ode said:

Not sure why there is confusion👇

 

Could be the fact that this is what the scorecard says when you're there......

[eboettne]

3 minutes ago, Drwoods2017 said:

Could be the fact that this is what the scorecard says when you're there......

 

Yikes, who decided on that wording.  To me that reads, if your A caddie did a good job pay $100.  The word tip or gratuity isn't used once.

[ode1]

1 minute ago, eboettne said:

 

Yikes, who decided on that wording.  To me that reads, if your A caddie did a good job pay $100.  The word tip or gratuity isn't used once.

Agreed ....they should just take that off the card.....but it's still no excuse IMO. It addresses the fee not the gratuity...IMO it would be much simpler to include the fee on top of the greens fee (if caddie is taken), paid at the register and then tip direct to the caddie.  Could you imagine paying the waiters wage direct when dining out.  It's odd!

[NewGuy412]

Me budgeting $100 tip on top of the fee sounds way off base but maybe I'll still budget that and be surprised by the surplus to spend on souvenirs, drinks and food!

 

Anyone that did this trip completely forego getting a caddy and just do the walking themselves?

[cassel191919]

1 hour ago, eboettne said:

 

 I don't think it's always the way to go but it's generally what I give for a caddy that's really solid.  I've also tipped $20 at Whistling Straits for a caddy that had been on the course once.  He was fine but had no course knowledge.

 

In my mind, could be right or wrong, caddying is a physically demanding profession and if you're out there grinding with me for 5 hours and a solid hang you deserve at least $30/hour.

I don't disagree just think its interesting we've been taught to think this way with caddies. 30 an hour essentially tax free (for many) is pretty or was pretty good money. I think my biggest issue with paying more than 100 is when I get the double bag caddie, I pay the same rate and the service is never even close to as good as a single bag.

[italianstallion]

9 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

I don't disagree just think its interesting we've been taught to think this way with caddies. 30 an hour essentially tax free (for many) is pretty or was pretty good money. I think my biggest issue with paying more than 100 is when I get the double bag caddie, I pay the same rate and the service is never even close to as good as a single bag.

 

The concept of double bag caddies getting paid the same if not more per bag is quite the conundrum. Should the double bag caddy get as much per bag as the single bag caddy? On the face of it they should, after all they're putting in twice the effort a single bag caddy would. But at the same time they're providing less service to each customer. Interesting that there's no "economies of scale" with the caddies time, in that overall while the effort is more, they still spend the same amount of time working as a single bag caddy.

[vandyfan]

They have push carts right?

[Chanceman]

5 hours ago, italianstallion said:

 

Agreed on this point. A casual golfer can read that as "I have to pay the caddie $100 directly AND add a tip?" Then the question of how much is a proper tip when the caddie is getting 100% of the fee...if I throw $10 on top is that insulting? $20? $30? Do I do the 50% tip thing like someone mentioned, add $50 and now I look like a high roller just throwing cash around? Then there's the places like Erin hills that have the $55 caddie fee and recommend $75 as the minimum gratuity. Is the caddie seeing any of that $55? Do I need to tip him $100 ($75 + $25) so that he's up to the "minimum wage" for a caddie anywhere else? Do I need to tip him more than $100 so that he gets an even $100 plus tip like anywhere else (effectively putting me out $55 + $100 + $xx tip)?

 

All that said, my rule of thumb is the caddie should walk away with a minimum of $100 cash in their pocket after bagging for me. In the Erin Hills scenario, that means I'm giving them a $100 bill at the end of the round (and effectively paying $155 for a caddie there). At a place like Sand Valley where the cash goes entirely to the caddie then I revert back to normal tipping rules: $100 plus 20% baseline gratuity. I adjust the 20% up or down depending on service/knowledge/advice given on the course.

 

Side note: I'm doing this whole trip in July: Erin Hills, Lido, Mammoth, Sand Valley, Sedge, Sandbox, Lawsonia Links, Whistling Straits, Blackwolf River Run. Only 36 hole days will be at Sand Valley, as they had limited availability for overnights and we could only book one night.

Thank you for that. The “rules” of tipping in America are very arcane to most Aussies. We tipped a guy at Chambers Bay $20 on the $100 fee but he sulked like he was gonna get the mafia onto us. For a 20% tip!

[jrg75]

29 minutes ago, Chanceman said:

Thank you for that. The “rules” of tipping in America are very arcane to most Aussies. We tipped a guy at Chambers Bay $20 on the $100 fee but he sulked like he was gonna get the mafia onto us. For a 20% tip!

The tipping culture is out of control in the US.  I honestly don't mind giving a caddy a $40 tip for spending 5 hours on the course with me but I get really irritated by the guy that wants $1 for grabbing me a bottle of water out of the cooler.

[StudentGolfer4]

10 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

Me budgeting $100 tip on top of the fee sounds way off base but maybe I'll still budget that and be surprised by the surplus to spend on souvenirs, drinks and food!

 

Anyone that did this trip completely forego getting a caddy and just do the walking themselves?

To complicate it a bit more, I don’t believe the scorecard posted previously was correct. The one I have from summer 2023 just says $100 and doesn’t talk about Junior or A caddy. I’ll see if I can upload it tomorrow. 
 

It’s not $100 on top of the fee. Yes you can walk it yourself and many people do. They have pull carts available too if you don’t want to carry. 
There are several lines off the tee where a caddy is helpful but it’s not necessary. I didn’t buy one but im

guessing a yardage book would

help on some of the blind tee shots. There’s a handful but it’s wide enough if you don’t hit your mark exactly it’s usually not a big deal. I can think of 3 on the front at SV where a caddy helps ( 2, 6, 7) but it’s not like you’re lost without one. 
 

@ode some courses require you to pay the caddie fee when you pay green fees and then tip the caddie after the round. That way is even more confusing because with this arrangement the club usually keeps a cut of the caddie fee but that number isn’t readily available to the guest. For example, pinehurst caddie fee is $75 and the caddies take home $22 of that $75 (as of 2021). Personally, I would much rather give my caddie 150 cash than pay $75 inside, and tipping him $75 only to see him walk away with less than $100. I’ve paid more and he makes less. See what I’m saying? 

 

[ode1]

43 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

the club usually keeps a cut

Hmmm, did not consider that. Kudos to SV for the way they do it!  I'll be honest and say the fee at SV seems high, but then again it is not mandatory to  take a caddie, so there is that!  Pinehurst scenario, the caddie is much more reliant on a generous tip.  I just figured the bulk of the money went to the caddie, and the club kept a small %.

[StudentGolfer4]

Card from summer of 2023

Edited January 20, 2024 by StudentGolfer4

[Drwoods2017]

12 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

To complicate it a bit more, I don’t believe the scorecard posted previously was correct. The one I have from summer 2023 just says $100 and doesn’t talk about Junior or A caddy. I’ll see if I can upload it tomorrow. 
 

It’s not $100 on top of the fee. Yes you can walk it yourself and many people do. They have pull carts available too if you don’t want to carry. 
There are several lines off the tee where a caddy is helpful but it’s not necessary. I didn’t buy one but im

guessing a yardage book would

help on some of the blind tee shots. There’s a handful but it’s wide enough if you don’t hit your mark exactly it’s usually not a big deal. I can think of 3 on the front at SV where a caddy helps ( 2, 6, 7) but it’s not like you’re lost without one. 
 

@ode some courses require you to pay the caddie fee when you pay green fees and then tip the caddie after the round. That way is even more confusing because with this arrangement the club usually keeps a cut of the caddie fee but that number isn’t readily available to the guest. For example, pinehurst caddie fee is $75 and the caddies take home $22 of that $75 (as of 2021). Personally, I would much rather give my caddie 150 cash than pay $75 inside, and tipping him $75 only to see him walk away with less than $100. I’ve paid more and he makes less. See what I’m saying? 

 

That’s the one that came off the website but yeah we had the one you posted for our trip last year. For people who never had to deal with the system before it’s not great. Doesn’t help that every resort is different.  

[Judg3Smails]

I have a Sand Valley trip coming up in May. Can't wait. Your itinerary looks great. 

 

My wife had a work outing there I believe last summer but it may have been two summers ago now. She was there the weekend after the infamous incident that caused SV to enforce strict on-course drinking rules. She could only buy 1 drink at the start of the round and 1 at the turn. I'm curious if they're still enforcing this harsh of a limit. Has anyone played recently and were the drink stands back open on the course? 

 

We're going for golf so it's not like we need to drink a 12-pack of beers a round but only 2 drinks seems overly strict. Especially if someone is having a tough round. 

 

Appreciate any input! I'm happy to report back after the trip in May as well. 

[StudentGolfer4]

4 hours ago, Judg3Smails said:

I have a Sand Valley trip coming up in May. Can't wait. Your itinerary looks great. 

 

My wife had a work outing there I believe last summer but it may have been two summers ago now. She was there the weekend after the infamous incident that caused SV to enforce strict on-course drinking rules. She could only buy 1 drink at the start of the round and 1 at the turn. I'm curious if they're still enforcing this harsh of a limit. Has anyone played recently and were the drink stands back open on the course? 

 

We're going for golf so it's not like we need to drink a 12-pack of beers a round but only 2 drinks seems overly strict. Especially if someone is having a tough round. 

 

Appreciate any input! I'm happy to report back after the trip in May as well. 

Im not 100% sure what you’re referring to as the drink stands but as of last summer drinks were available at Craig’s porch and whatever the halfway house on 12 tee of Mammoth is called. I was able to buy 2 at a time but not sure what the limit was. I did not get a chance at the sandbox so can’t speak to that. 

[NewGuy412]

Resurrecting my post to ask a caddy question since I’m 57 days away from my trip. 
 

Anyone recently been to Sand Valley that can comment on caddy situation? Did you use one for every round or did you carry/push cart your own bag? I was thinking of taking a caddy for Sedge and Lido but walking on my own for Sand Valley and Mammoth. Is that a bad idea or should I take caddy for everything? My only stupid reasoning behind the caddy for Sedge and Lido was that they will probably be the most memorable of the courses played on the property and I want to soak it in or get to most help with their knowledge, although all the courses will be memorable. I like to walk and carry my own bag because it helps me focus but should I let someone else just take care of it for all the rounds and enjoy the scenery and the courses?

Edited July 24, 2024 by NewGuy412

[underwaterDMS]

11 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

Resurrecting my post to ask a caddy question since I’m 57 days away from my trip. 
 

Anyone recently been to Sand Valley that can comment on caddy situation? Did you use one for every round or did you carry/push cart your own bag? I was thinking of taking a caddy for Sedge and Lido but walking on my own for Sand Valley and Mammoth. Is that a bad idea or should I take caddy for everything? My only stupid reasoning behind the caddy for Sedge and Lido was that they will probably be the most memorable of the courses played on the property and I want to soak it in or get to most help with their knowledge, although all the courses will be memorable. I like to walk and carry my own bag because it helps me focus but should I let someone else just take care of it for all the rounds and enjoy the scenery and the courses?

There is no right or wrong answer to your question.  It's a matter of personal preference.  I've taken seven trips to Sand Valley over the years.  Some rounds with caddies.  Some rounds without.  I've played SV and MD enough that I do not "need" a caddy for anything other than lugging my bag around.  I know the lines off the tees, the right and wrong places to miss around the greens, and how the greens are going to break.  When I take an eight pack of guys up there, we typically get caddies just to make the rounds smoother, and some of my guys don't know the courses as well as I do.  When I'm there with just one buddy or a foursome of guys who know the place, we almost always forgo caddies.  

 

If you've never been on property before, I certainly think you would not regret getting a caddy.  You just don't know the holes.  Even the more straightforward tracks like SV and MD have plenty of nuance.  For instance, I doubt you'd understand where to put your tee shot on MD 14 to get it to roll onto the green without someone telling you where to go.  

 

A caddy is 100% necessary for Lido.  #1- it's required (or at least was required last year when I played it in September). And #2- of the fourteen non-par 3 tee shots, at least 7-8 of them are completely blind.  Several holes share fairways (more or less) and you might not even understand or realize what green you are playing to without a caddy.  Every other track (including Sedge, which I played for the first time last week) is in front of you.  Plenty of secrets that a caddy could unlock for you, but you're not going to be potentially caught playing the wrong hole on any of them like you might on Lido.

 

I can't say that I agree with your comment about Sedge and Lido being the "most memorable".  Yes, they are the newest.  Yes, Lido is the most exclusive.  But I actually find the Lido scenery and layout to be the least interesting and memorable from an aesthetic perspective.  It's relatively flat compared to the others.  It has very minimal trees and other vegetation.  Etc.  I'm not knocking Lido in any way at all.  It is a wonderful layout, has a lot of interesting golf architecture, and from a historic perspective, it is amazing what they did in painstakingly recreating a fabled epic track that was wiped off the face of the earth.  BUT for my money, I'd consider a track like Mammoth to be more of an epic experience to soak in, particularly on your first time.  Standing on 14 tee box, looking out over the property... walking up the 18th fairway to the clubhouse... that's the stuff for me.

 

Caddy or not, you are going to love the property.  They just do everything well.  The golf is great, the customer service is great, the food is great.  Speaking of which, do NOT miss the new restaurant at Sedge.  Excellent Italian food.  Best restaurant on property, in my opinion.  I can't wait to see what they are able to accomplish out west when Rodeo Dunes comes to fruition.

[eboettne]

12 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

Resurrecting my post to ask a caddy question since I’m 57 days away from my trip. 
 

Anyone recently been to Sand Valley that can comment on caddy situation? Did you use one for every round or did you carry/push cart your own bag? I was thinking of taking a caddy for Sedge and Lido but walking on my own for Sand Valley and Mammoth. Is that a bad idea or should I take caddy for everything? My only stupid reasoning behind the caddy for Sedge and Lido was that they will probably be the most memorable of the courses played on the property and I want to soak it in or get to most help with their knowledge, although all the courses will be memorable. I like to walk and carry my own bag because it helps me focus but should I let someone else just take care of it for all the rounds and enjoy the scenery and the courses?

I think that's a good strategy, but I will recommend to get some good referrals for a good caddy.  We had 2 caddies on our round at The Lido in May and they were both terrible.  I loved the Lido but these guys detracted from our enjoyment of the round. We didn't take a caddy for MD or SV but had also played it on a previous trip, Sedge wasn't open yet but heard a caddy would be useful there. Enjoy!

[eboettne]

48 minutes ago, underwaterDMS said:

A caddy is 100% necessary for Lido.  #1- it's required (or at least was required last year when I played it in September). And #2- of the fourteen non-par 3 tee shots, at least 7-8 of them are completely blind.  Several holes share fairways (more or less) and you might not even understand or realize what green you are playing to without a caddy.  Every other track (including Sedge, which I played for the first time last week) is in front of you.  Plenty of secrets that a caddy could unlock for you, but you're not going to be potentially caught playing the wrong hole on any of them like you might on Lido.

 

 

Funny(not at the time) story, one of our caddies actually had 2 of our guys hit to hole 11's green when we were on hole 2. So again, make sure you get a referral for a good caddy.

[NewGuy412]

@underwaterDMS I appreciate your feedback! I do stand corrected with the “most memorable” course on the property, my thought was only because Lido and Sedge are the newest and currently most talked about. I think all of them will be the most memorable. 

 

My group has to do some more research on the referrals for the caddies.

[underwaterDMS]

5 minutes ago, eboettne said:

 

Funny(not at the time) story, one of our caddies actually had 2 of our guys hit to hole 11's green when we were on hole 2. So again, make sure you get a referral for a good caddy.

AWFUL!  The layout is perfect setup for these types of mistakes.  You'd think that a caddy would 100% prevent that from ever happening.  But yes, not all caddies are created equal.  I too did not have the strongest caddy with me when I played Lido last year.  I'm not a member, and perhaps they save their alphas for members and throw newbies at non-member shmucks like me?

[Tyrus Webb]

Just get the caddies.  You're flying to Wisconsin, driving to the middle of nowhere, spending a few grand on the trip...and you're gonna cheap out and schlep your own bag around to save $500??

Edited July 24, 2024 by Tyrus Webb

[NewGuy412]

16 minutes ago, Tyrus Webb said:

Just get the caddies.  You're flying to Wisconsin, driving the the middle of nowhere, spending a few grand on the trip...and you're gonna cheap out and schlep your own bag around to save $500??

 

Wasn’t even about the money but I’m probably for sure doing caddy for every round after getting the feedback. I just know 2 guys in my group were hinting they want to pull cart/carry their bags so they can cheap out if they want.

[The Milkman]

Just putting in a plug for a caddie rec for you. Nick from East Lake. He's the best caddie I've ever had. A great player himself (+ handicap), good stories, adjusted quickly to understand our playing styles/skills, and was a beast reading greens. I made quite a few 10 - 15 footers for par and birdie across our rounds entirely thanks to him. 

 

But we used caddies for our round at Sand Valley, Lido and the first time around Mammoth. We played Mammoth a 2nd time and didn't think we'd need them for a 2nd go and we were right 

Edited July 24, 2024 by The Milkman

[vandyfan]

36 minutes ago, Tyrus Webb said:

you're gonna cheap out and schlep your own bag around to save $500??

 

Some people LIKE to schlep their own bag!

[pmccallum86]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:31 PM, Judg3Smails said:

She was there the weekend after the infamous incident that caused SV to enforce strict on-course drinking rules.

 

What happened exactly?  All I know is that I can no longer get transfusions on the course because of it. 

[ND2005]

4 hours ago, pmccallum86 said:

 

What happened exactly?  All I know is that I can no longer get transfusions on the course because of it. 

wait what? No transfusions on the course?