How do we feel about Hailey Davidson

[OBbogey5]

On 2/14/2024 at 4:02 AM, st1800e said:

Current LPGA Gender Policy.

 

https://www.lpga.com/gender-policy

Cop out, and just pathetic. 

[bcflyguy1]

4 hours ago, OBbogey5 said:

Hailey should not be playing in women’s pro or amateur events, period. I have nothing against Hailey, but this isn’t Nam, there are rules.

 

That’s how I feel about it. 

 

Davidson can now go back to missing cuts by double digits against other dudes or find other gainful employment.

 

Either way, a bit of justice and sanity is refreshing.

[8602081]

I don't understand why my other posts never went through.. I'm basically saying the same thing everyone else is saying..

 

[ChronicSlicer]

On 3/12/2024 at 12:57 PM, 8602081 said:

I don't understand why my other posts never went through.. I'm basically saying the same thing everyone else is saying..

 

Not in the mods opinion

[Mcfly]

There should be a separate league for transgender individuals.  

If someone wants to watch them compete with one another, great.  

If not, also great.  

 

[PedronNiall]

The LPGA policy at least is more serious than those in many other sports like surfing, swimming, and weightlifting where someone basically just has to decide they're a woman and can compete. The requirement for actual surgery will keep out a lot of the shenanigans seen elsewhere. 

 

Still, I'm much more on board with the feeder tour's policy that you can only compete as a woman if you're born a woman. From a performance standpoint, could have even lived with the requirements from the LPGA policy for those who don't need to provide written proof as anyone in that category would not see the advantages of a muscle & bone fed by testosterone. 

 

Still 99% that none of this will be said & done until it gets to the Supreme Court. Someone's going to challenge something somewhere on one side or the other. Keeping in mind that we still have sports like women's swimming letting biological men compete as women in some cases those challenges are warranted. 

 

I'd hope that in the end there's legal framework establishing that those who gain the size & strength advantage of growth into adulthood as a male cannot ever compete as female. Policies being all over the place from one sport to the next is a bad look and makes no sense. 

 

I've yet to look, but does anyone know what Olympic policy is around all of this? Is someone able to get in regardless of their situation so long as they meet whatever lower level policies are established for Olympic qualification? They've banned actual women before because their test levels were too high or because of complaints, but I'd think Olympic policy would end up shaping what happens in sport in general. 

[WorkItBothWays]

I just read online that Hailey Davidson is now the first alternate for the US Women's Open. I can see alternates from the qualifying results but I've not been able to verify the order as I can't find an alternate list. 

[Mr.Cleeks]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2024/12/04/lpga-usga-announce-changes-gender-policies-ban-hailey-davidson/ 
 

LPGA statement: The policy—informed by a working group of top experts in medicine, science, sport physiology, golf performance and gender policy law—was developed with input from a broad array of stakeholders and prioritizes the competitive integrity of women’s professional tournaments and elite amateur competitions This working group has advised that the effects of male puberty confer competitive advantages in golf performance compared to players who have not undergone male puberty.

 

USGA Statement: “It was all based on competitive fairness as the north star,” USGA CEO Mike Whan told Golfweek of the process. “Right or wrong, let’s be able to look ourselves in the face and any competitor in one our women’s events in the face and say if you’re in this event, nobody has a competitive advantage relative to their gender.”

 

Common Sense Prevails!

 

 

 

 

[00steven]

A great win for womens sports and protection of the athletes! Glad the USGA had the guts to do it.

[ChronicSlicer]

7 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Common Sense Prevails!

 

 

 

 

It's still sad when you have to seek out medical professionals opinions, then make a choice. 

[Mr.Cleeks]

2 hours ago, ChronicSlicer said:

It's still sad when you have to seek out medical professionals opinions, then make a choice. 

Pretty sure Whan just said that for the sake of optics.

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

 

[00steven]

I don’t think anyone’s “neutral”, only afraid to be cancelled. You can have this opinion without hate or bigotry, very glad they are protecting the young female athletes of the future.

[bcflyguy1]

9 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

 

Exactly the the response one would expect from such a narcissistic sociopath.

Back to missing the cut in every men's event he plays, I reckon. 

[WorkItBothWays]

10 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

 

 

Banned or doesn't meet the eligibility criteria, I guess it depends on your point of view. Fine if someone wants to live their life differently but I don't understand the sense of entitlement with regards to being able to play competitive sports.

 

My stance has always been golf should be open to everyone but when it comes to competitive play then it has to be fair.

 

Is the LPGA/USGA position now different to that of the R&A and LET. Not even sure if the R&A and LET are aligned.

[ChronicSlicer]

19 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Pretty sure Whan just said that for the sake of optics.

Very possible. I would like to know how much, if any the actual players had in this decision. 

[ThinkingPlus]

7 hours ago, WorkItBothWays said:

 

Banned or doesn't meet the eligibility criteria, I guess it depends on your point of view. Fine if someone wants to live their life differently but I don't understand the sense of entitlement with regards to being able to play competitive sports.

 

My stance has always been golf should be open to everyone but when it comes to competitive play then it has to be fair.

 

Is the LPGA/USGA position now different to that of the R&A and LET. Not even sure if the R&A and LET are aligned.

Or aligned with the USOC/IOC. This policy change could impact Olympics elgibility. No clue how the IOC works with the USGA/R&A.

[Mr.Cleeks]

3 hours ago, ChronicSlicer said:

Very possible. I would like to know how much, if any the actual players had in this decision. 

I’m sure the lpga tour policy board voted on this

Edited December 6, 2024 by Mr.Cleeks

[bcjim]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Or aligned with the USOC/IOC. This policy change could impact Olympics elgibility. No clue how the IOC works with the USGA/R&A.

The IOC passed the buck and left decisions to each governing body to make.  So different sports have different policies.

 

 

The recognized authority in golf is the "International Golf Federation".  I'm unaware of it's policy, if any,  on TG athletes but igf sounds like a shell company of sorts. Usga, R&A, the pga and lpga and others do the heavy lifting. 

[bobfoster]

On 12/5/2024 at 8:19 AM, 00steven said:

I don’t think anyone’s “neutral”, only afraid to be cancelled. You can have this opinion without hate or bigotry, very glad they are protecting the young female athletes of the future.

I wasn't really going to comment on this, but your post made me think I'd like to enter the conversation on behalf of my daughter. She's a smart, funny, very even-handed, good-natured girl. Doesn't pay a lot of attention to politics, and rarely gets angry about anything.

 

But she also played three sports in HS and at university, and this issue gets her absolutely livid (like, way out of the norm livid). She didn't have to deal with it at her school, but had friends at other colleges that did - biological men in women's locker rooms, competing for spots in the fields. I remember her sending me a pic of Leah Thompson (the swimmer) standing next to several women he was about to compete against, and positively towering over everyone ... my daughter: "How the hell can anyone think that is fair? That it is right? How did this ever become okay?"

 

Athletics is by nature competitive - anyone that wins means someone else loses. Someone earning a spot on a team means someone else didn't. Even at the collegiate level (let alone the pro level) of women's sports, these women put in serious amounts of work. Continual practice, conditioning. Adjusting diet and even lifestyle. Sacrificing. (And remember, in some instances scholarship money could be on the line.) So now after pouring all of that energy into competitive achievement, they may suddenly find themselves needing to compete against people that have such obviously clear physical advantages - well I (and my daughter, and most of her athletic friends) think this is close to being cruel and abusive towards women. It is just downright (and obviously) unfair. It seems nuts that this idea could even be contemplated, let alone implemented by ruling bodies.

 

Hopefully it is just a few years of temporary insanity, and we'll snap out of it. For the sake of every young woman that wants - and overwhelmingly deserves - the chance to work towards the genuine joy that comes from legitimate competition with their peers. 

 

My daughter's bottom line summary of the issue?