Parallel vs taper tip

[ssf301]

I've got a set of Mizuno 923 JPX forged irons with UST ESX 460 shafts in them.  My understanding is that Mizuno head takes a taper tip shaft.  I'm looking to put the same shaft in my wedges and when I try to purchase those shafts they are parallel.  It looks like I can special order them in taper tip, but before I do that I wanted to make sure it is correct to order the taper tip version? It seems a little odd to me for one of Mizuno's stock offerings to be a parallel as standard when the head is set up for taper?

[Velcade]

Order the shaft with the tip diameter that fits your wedges.  Why do you care if your irons are taper, you're looking to replace your wedge shafts. 

[Sparty4202]

The UST ESX 460 shaft is a parallel tip shaft, to utilize in a taper tip head UST will do the proper tipping of the shaft for each respective iron then they will sand the last 1/2” or so of the shaft to make it a .355 taper tip.

The small amount of tapering does not affect the integrity of the shaft. This process is quite common with some of the graphite shafts. 

[pjc]

So I have the same irons, but with Modus 105 except in the 4 iron.  I opted for the UST Recoil 780 smacwrap which are also .370 or parallel tip, it is also one of Mizuno's no up charge graphite shafts.  So basically, UST just sands down the tips to make them into .335 taper tip for OEMS only using taper hosels.  The shafts are still a 41" blank throughout the set, I believe this is true for the ESX shaft as well.  If you order the shafts through the Golfworks, they request this from UST.  I believe that you can just order directly from UST, if you speak to them, they will explain this. 

[Pepperturbo]

Hard to believe Mizuno iron has a parallel tip.  

 

Not many OE iron companies offer NEW iron sets with hosels designed for parallel tips.  In my experience, OEM iron companies tend not to offer both, mostly due to inventory costs.   Parallel tip shafts tend to be cheaper, not that cost matters.

 

However, some shaft manufacturing companies offer both parallel and taper tip shafts, UST/Mamiya is one.  Every set of irons I have purchased since taking up this crazy game has taper tip hosels.  Component equipment manufactures tend to have parallel tip hosels. 

 

Over my golf life I've only had one parallel tip "Tensei AV Raw White Hybrid 90S" shaft  installed in a T200 taper tip 2 iron.   Something says, shaving shaft tips to fit hosel size, is NOT what the OEM intended, so there lies the rub for some of us.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[Stuart_G]

14 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Not many OE iron companies offer NEW iron sets with hosels designed for parallel tips. 

 

It's true they don't produce both for any particular model but actually it's not that uncommon for some of the major OEM's (e.g. TM, Cobra, Callaway) to have some models with parallel hosels.  But the very general tendency is for more players iron models to have the tapered hosels and SGI irons to have parallel hosels.

 

There were even some OEM's who produces a "Universal" hosels that could take both parallel and tapered.   Basically a parallel hosel with a small .355" indentation at the bottom to fit the tip of a tapered shaft.    Not sure if that's the case anymore or not.

 

 

[Ger21]

22 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Something says, shaving shaft tips to fit hosel size, is NOT what the OEM intended, so there lies the rub for some of us.

They're shaving a .007" taper off the last 1" of the tip. Much easier to do that than produce two different shaft models.

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, Ger21 said:

They're shaving a .007" taper off the last 1" of the tip. Much easier to do that than produce two different shaft models.

I understand what they are doing, and why.  Haven't seen one named OEM shaving parallel tip shafts to fit taper tip hosels.  Depending on the equipment, OEM's default to plug and play. 

 

Even though I wasn't aware of the two tip sizes; none of the iron sets I've purchased since taking up golf in the 90s, had parallel tip hosels.  I didn't encounter parallel tips until much later when exposed to component companies.  

 

My two builders (one being x-Titleist custom for tour guys) confirmed, the only time they built parallel tip sets was to meet a frequency flex objective.  Otherwise, even the SS/HS process was/is done with predominately taper tip shafts.

[TallGuy90]

26 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's true they don't produce both for any particular model but actually it's not that uncommon for some of the major OEM's (e.g. TM, Cobra, Callaway) to have some models with parallel hosels.  But the very general tendency is for more players iron models to have the tapered hosels and SGI irons to have parallel hosels.

 

There were even some OEM's who produces a "Universal" hosels that could take both parallel and tapered.   Basically a parallel hosel with a small .355" indentation at the bottom to fit the tip of a tapered shaft.    Not sure if that's the case anymore or not.

 

 

And then there’s ping who said hold my beer

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's true they don't produce both for any particular model but actually it's not that uncommon for some of the major OEM's (e.g. TM, Cobra, Callaway) to have some models with parallel hosels.  But the very general tendency is for more players iron models to have the tapered hosels and SGI irons to have parallel hosels.

 

There were even some OEM's who produces a "Universal" hosels that could take both parallel and tapered.   Basically a parallel hosel with a small .355" indentation at the bottom to fit the tip of a tapered shaft.    Not sure if that's the case anymore or not.

 

 

 

It's interesting that, even as far back as 1990 or so, Mizuno offered both parallel and taper versions of their blade set at the time (MS-11).  The taper were DG shafted, the graphite shafted sets came with parallel bored hosels.

 

[ssf301]

2 hours ago, Velcade said:

Order the shaft with the tip diameter that fits your wedges.  Why do you care if your irons are taper, you're looking to replace your wedge shafts. 

 

 

Very good point, the wedges are Mizuno T-22's.  I assumed they'd be the same as the Mizuno 923's, but I'm not certain.

[gdb99]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

I understand what they are doing, and why.  Haven't seen one named OEM shaving parallel tip shafts to fit taper tip hosels.  Depending on the equipment, OEM's default to plug and play. 

 

Well, apparently Mizuno is doing it. The OEM's aren't shaving shafts, probably the graphite shaft company is doing for the OEM's, so it's plug and play for the assembly process.

[pjc]

Yes^^^^  I mentioned above that UST Mamiya does the work and sends them to the OEM.  Other OEM's offer the Recoil 780's, but use taper tips, same with the ESX shafts.

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's interesting that, even as far back as 1990 or so, Mizuno offered both parallel and taper versions of their blade set at the time (MS-11).  The taper were DG shafted, the graphite shafted sets came with parallel bored hosels.

 

 

Not just the MS-11, I had some MX-25's that were the same way.

[eddiebigeddie]

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I understand what they are doing, and why.  Haven't seen one named OEM shaving parallel tip shafts to fit taper tip hosels.  Depending on the equipment, OEM's default to plug and play. 

 

Even though I wasn't aware of the two tip sizes; none of the iron sets I've purchased since taking up golf in the 90s, had parallel tip hosels.  I didn't encounter parallel tips until much later when exposed to component companies.  

 

My two builders (one being x-Titleist custom for tour guys) confirmed, the only time they built parallel tip sets was to meet a frequency flex objective.  Otherwise, even the SS/HS process was/is done with predominately taper tip shafts.

I’m not why you haven’t heard…but I currently have (3) sets of irons that will take parallel or taper tip shafts. (2) sets of Pxgs and (1) Cobra set. Not uncommon anymore 

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, TallGuy90 said:

And then there’s ping who said hold my beer

 

And also:

"We don't need no stinking standard taper in our hosels, we'll just come up with our own."  

😁

[Grouchykona]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

And also:

"We don't need no stinking standard taper in our hosels, we'll just come up with our own."  

😁

(hope ok to ask here - didn’t want to start new thread)

 

@Stuart_G I want to pull my current shafts that are in my Ping Glide 4.0 wedges and install them into new wedges this year. Most likely SM10 or RTX.

 

I hear Ping’s wedge hosels are a bit “different”?  Will I have an issue with the shaft swap? (not doing work myself and will take to club builder). 

[Stuart_G]

41 minutes ago, Grouchykona said:

(hope ok to ask here - didn’t want to start new thread)

 

@Stuart_G I want to pull my current shafts that are in my Ping Glide 4.0 wedges and install them into new wedges this year. Most likely SM10 or RTX.

 

I hear Ping’s wedge hosels are a bit “different”?  Will I have an issue with the shaft swap? (not doing work myself and will take to club builder). 

 

The hosels are different, they have a very non-traditional tapered shape.  But the shafts are still the same (standard taper) so it only effects the build when you're installing into a Ping hosel.

[Grouchykona]

30 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The hosels are different, they have a very non-traditional tapered shape.  But the shafts are still the same (standard taper) so it only effects the build when you're installing into a Ping hosel.

I guess what I’m asking is:  Are the shafts in my current Ping wedges custom tapered to fit into the non-traditional Ping hosels that when they’re pulled and installed into a SM10 or RTX, the fit may be an issue?

[Nessism]

8 minutes ago, Grouchykona said:

I guess what I’m asking is:  Are the shafts in my current Ping wedges custom tapered to fit into the non-traditional Ping hosels that when they’re pulled and installed into a SM10 or RTX, the fit may be an issue?

Ping used standard taper tip shafts.  They are not special shape.

[Stuart_G]

27 minutes ago, Grouchykona said:

I guess what I’m asking is:  Are the shafts in my current Ping wedges custom tapered to fit into the non-traditional Ping hosels that when they’re pulled and installed into a SM10 or RTX, the fit may be an issue?

 

I understand that, maybe I just didn't answer as clearly as I had hoped.   No, the shafts are the same - unchanged. There is no custom taper added to the shaft.  At least when it comes to factory installed.   

 

Now, a custom builder MIGHT create a custom taper on a graphite shaft to get a better fit - but no one will mess with the taper on steel shafts.

 

[Grouchykona]

16 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I understand that, maybe I just didn't answer as clearly as I had hoped.   No, the shafts are the same - unchanged. There is no custom taper added to the shaft.  At least when it comes to factory installed.   

 

Now, a custom builder MIGHT create a custom taper on a graphite shaft to get a better fit - but no one will mess with the taper on steel shafts.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it!

 

it is a graphite shaft (Steelfiber black label private reserve wedge). I guess I’ll find out when my builder pulls it if there is a custom taper on it. 

[Pepperturbo]

 

19 hours ago, eddiebigeddie said:

I’m not why you haven’t heard…but I currently have (3) sets of irons that will take parallel or taper tip shafts. (2) sets of Pxgs and (1) Cobra set. Not uncommon anymore 

Reread my post.  It's because since taking up golf, I've bought a limited number of Player or MB sets; those being Ping, Mizuno, PRGR, MacGregor, Callaway and Titleist.  Ping was the only consumer oriented OEM, and never interested in PXG or Cobra.

[ForTourUseOnly]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:19 PM, Pepperturbo said:

I understand what they are doing, and why.  Haven't seen one named OEM shaving parallel tip shafts to fit taper tip hosels.  Depending on the equipment, OEM's default to plug and play. 

 

Titleist does it with every hybrid shaft when they put them into U505 or T200 driving irons, tip it properly then grind/sand the tip, they have a machine they call the "Pencil sharpener" that tapers it consistently and the right amount each time.

[ForTourUseOnly]

3 hours ago, Grouchykona said:

Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it!

 

it is a graphite shaft (Steelfiber black label private reserve wedge). I guess I’ll find out when my builder pulls it if there is a custom taper on it. 

The black label reserve WEDGE shafts are taper tip

https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/golf/steelfiber-private-reserve-wedge-graphite-iron-shaft.html

[Grouchykona]

5 minutes ago, ForTourUseOnly said:

The black label reserve WEDGE shafts are taper tip

https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/golf/steelfiber-private-reserve-wedge-graphite-iron-shaft.html

Yup 👍 

I’m just curious and hoping that the builder that assembled my Ping wedges a couple of years ago didn’t adjust the shaft taper (taper more etc..) to fit the Ping Glide hosels. 

[ForTourUseOnly]

1 minute ago, Grouchykona said:

Yup 👍 

I’m just curious and hoping that the builder that assembled my Ping wedges a couple of years ago didn’t adjust the shaft taper (taper more etc..) to fit the Ping Glide hosels. 

They shouldn't have, if anything the ping ID of their hosels is on the bigger size so no need to change the shaft at all.

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, ForTourUseOnly said:

They shouldn't have, if anything the ping ID of their hosels is on the bigger size so no need to change the shaft at all.

 

That's actually part of the problem.   The taper increases more on the hosel than it does on the shaft - meaning that the tapered hosel can not hold the shaft in a straight line - leading to potentially poor alignment of the shaft in the head.  Reshaping the taper on the hosel to match the steeper taper on the hosel can help fix that.

 

And the worse the fit of those two tapers are in relationship with each other, the worse the strength of the glue joint regardless of how well centered the shaft might be.  So fixing the taper increases the strength of the glue joint.

 

Yes a collared ferrule can help keep the shaft centered - but only if you have the right sized ferrule - with a much larger collar than most collared ferrules have -  and only if the iron / wedge is a model that even uses a ferrule.

 

Edited January 25, 2024 by Stuart_G

[Nessism]

Ping gets a lot of grief about their new hosel design, from us club tinkerers, and with good reason, but their old hosel design had its own challenges.  It also had tons of clearance around the shaft, so the shaft could tilt in the hosel, except for at the very bottom of the hosel, where it necked down to an interference fit, and the only way to get the shaft to seat fully down in the hosel, is to pound the shaft into the head.  I shudder to think how many garage builders "short shafted" their Ping irons because they didn't know about the interference fit hosel.  Also, some people claimed that Ping uses "strong epoxy" because the heads were so hard to pull.  Reality is, though, that it is/was the interference fit shaft that makes these clubs so hard to pull shafts from.  The epoxy itself would break down and out-gas so dramatically that it would POP, and eject itself from the hosel, in essence, because so much heat was needed to expand the head, and get the shaft loose.  The epoxy would give up way before this temperature is reached. 

[ChaosTheory]

Slightly on topic... 

I have clone of an Eye2 SW that needs a taper tip shaft.  I go to 2nd Swing and in the bargain barrel I find a Mizuno Tour XP PW that looks like another clone of an Eye2.  (I had no idea that Mizuno ever sold Eye2 copies.).  The shaft is labeled Mizuno, has the original/ancient Mizuno grip, and looks like a basic Dynamic pattern.   It's only $5, so heck yeah, I'm buying it for the shaft.   Easy peasy.

 

I get home, pull the shaft, and it doesn't go very far into the SW.  What the heck?  Well, it's a .370 shaft.  Why on earth would Mizuno have used .370 shafts 40 years ago???