Help me improve my fitness and clubhead speed!

[cav5]

20 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

How is golf specific training of little marginal benefit?  If done correctly it can be a game changer for some.  Most people don't do it right therefore get little to no benefit. 

Are you talking about Justin Thomas or an 8 handicap. JT yes if it lets him drop fractions of strokes per round. I’d need to see a paper of someone dropping large caps due to golf workouts maybe I’d change mind. Also I did zenolink for 3 years so not some newbie here

[phizzy30]

Just now, cav5 said:

Are you talking about Justin Thomas or an 8 handicap. JT yes if it lets him drop fractions of strokes per round. I’d need to see a paper of someone dropping large caps due to golf workouts maybe I’d change mind. Also I did zenolink for 3 years so not some newbie here

Did I say you were a noob?  Quit being so defensive, bro.  You're missing the point.  Golf specific training done properly gives the golfer the necessary tools to improve their game and add speed to their swing.  Also, I've crossed paths with Chris Welch a couple times in the past.  He's good/well regarded in some areas, but not so much when it comes to golf.  That's the general consensus in the fitness industry.   

[cav5]

23 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Did I say you were a noob?  Quit being so defensive, bro.  You're missing the point.  Golf specific training done properly gives the golfer the necessary tools to improve their game and add speed to their swing.  Also, I've crossed paths with Chris Welch a couple times in the past.  He's good/well regarded in some areas, but not so much when it comes to golf.  That's the general consensus in the fitness industry.   

Literally walking out of the gym now. Sorry for tone lol. On cycle lol. Just don’t see benefit over just a normal workout helping. Just meant I’ve done tpi and all that. I’ve got speed chains towel snaps etc if OP wants them. 

[phizzy30]

Just now, cav5 said:

Literally walking out of the gym now. Sorry for tone lol. On cycle lol. Just don’t see benefit over just a normal workout helping. Just meant I’ve done tpi and all that. I’ve got speed chains towel snaps etc if OP wants them. 

Now you're talking my language.  PEDs are my area of expertise besides body building actually. 

[cav5]

6 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Now you're talking my language.  PEDs are my area of expertise besides body building actually. 

Love it! On some potent DHB right now. Trying to fix some other dopamine DHT dysfunctions going on too

[Albatross Dreamer]

14 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

 

Balance exercises in general are actually effective for golf because it's tough to find the sweet spot when your coordination and balance on your feet suck.  Doing stability exercises on a yoga and bosu ball help with that.  You guys need to look at the overall scope of things, not just focus on strength and speed.  Also, @Albatross Dreamer, listing specific exercises would be considered "premium content".  We both work in the fitness industry and you gotta know that we can't just give away all our secrets.  I'm all about helping people and paying it forward, but I'm not willing to spoon feed everyone.  😉   

Yeah I guess this would be a deeper off the net conversation. Everything has a place depending on intent. But like you said can't discuss everything on here.

[st1800e]

Gone totally downhill on this topic.   Guy asks for specific routines, and now some are on to PED’s.  
 

Really?   Is this about golf or some kind of macho bravado? 
 

 

[bluedot]

12 hours ago, cav5 said:

Are you talking about Justin Thomas or an 8 handicap. JT yes if it lets him drop fractions of strokes per round. I’d need to see a paper of someone dropping large caps due to golf workouts maybe I’d change mind. Also I did zenolink for 3 years so not some newbie here

I think I’m perhaps pretty good case study. 
 

I’m 71, and I’ve always worked out 2 or 3 times a week.  Former college tennis player, a runner, and I don’t carry any extra weight.  I did a complete swing rebuild in the fall of 2019, and in the middle of that process the teaching pro I was working with urged me to see a TPI-type guy for some golf specific stuff because of a lack of mobility in my hips.  
 

I took his advice, and I’ve been at it ever since, and I don’t know of a better word for golf-specific workouts than “transformative”.  When I started, I was an 8+ index; this morning I’m at 4.9, which is up a bit from my low. (I’ll write that off to cold weather and mud, but anyway…).  I’m now ranked in the Super Senior division of the Carolinas Golf Association, and my partner and I were the oldest (by a LOT!) winners of our club’s Member-Member in 2023.  That, along with a 50% handicap reduction, is evidence enough for me.
 

Perhaps more to the point, I NEVER take ibuprofen or Alleve anymore, and those were regular part of my life on days when I played golf.  (I do use Voltaren on an arthritic hip.) 

 

I’ve never posted most of that here before simply because it just feels like bragging.  But anybody who thinks that golf-specific workouts aren’t beneficial, and perhaps in a BIG way depending on the individual, is looking for reasons NOT to work out.  I’ve benefitted MORE than Justin Thomas has; I just don’t have as much at stake.

 

I should also mention that in addition to my regular gym workouts, I spend 30 minutes doing mobility work, including with an LAX ball and a foam roller, EVERY morning that I play.  That routine is also a prescribed part of my golf-specific work, and IMO it’s critical.

[RSLP]

@tmw4h5 impressive swing speed numbers, very close to PGA averages!  
 

in the gym:  Where are you trailing:  strength, flexibility, speed , restorative, or rest?  As an example, if you feel you are slow add in

some speed conditioning such as sprints , kettlebells, burpees, etc.  If you are tight, stretch.  Pretty simple , work on what is lagging.  Some athletes can see short comings on video, maybe film yourself working out and see if you can gain any knowledge.
 

Great exercise suggestions on YouTube for baseball, and they are free.

 

Swing speed training:

 

Several programs to choose from, mix it up and find what works for you.  Most can be found on the google for free.

 

Diet:  eat clean for maximum performance.  Eat poorly to be slow and weak.

 

golf practice:  improve what stats are lagging.  Avoid penalties, 3 putts, and 2 chips.

[cav5]

34 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I think I’m perhaps pretty good case study. 
 

I’m 71, and I’ve always worked out 2 or 3 times a week.  Former college tennis player, a runner, and I don’t carry any extra weight.  I did a complete swing rebuild in the fall of 2019, and in the middle of that process the teaching pro I was working with urged me to see a TPI-type guy for some golf specific stuff because of a lack of mobility in my hips.  
 

I took his advice, and I’ve been at it ever since, and I don’t know of a better word for golf-specific workouts than “transformative”.  When I started, I was an 8+ index; this morning I’m at 4.9, which is up a bit from my low. (I’ll write that off to cold weather and mud, but anyway…).  I’m now ranked in the Super Senior division of the Carolinas Golf Association, and my partner and I were the oldest (by a LOT!) winners of our club’s Member-Member in 2023.  That, along with a 50% handicap reduction, is evidence enough for me.
 

Perhaps more to the point, I NEVER take ibuprofen or Alleve anymore, and those were regular part of my life on days when I played golf.  (I do use Voltaren on an arthritic hip.) 

 

I’ve never posted most of that here before simply because it just feels like bragging.  But anybody who thinks that golf-specific workouts aren’t beneficial, and perhaps in a BIG way depending on the individual, is looking for reasons NOT to work out.  I’ve benefitted MORE than Justin Thomas has; I just don’t have as much at stake.

 

I should also mention that in addition to my regular gym workouts, I spend 30 minutes doing mobility work, including with an LAX ball and a foam roller, EVERY morning that I play.  That routine is also a prescribed part of my golf-specific work, and IMO it’s critical.

That’s awesome!! Happy it helped you. Very hard thing to quantify tho. I

had a similar experience with a swing change going from a 3 to +1 in a season. Eureka moments very few get.  Before that change I used to get intense left lat pain and needed massages. When I made the change swing change the pain went away. 

[stryper]

9 hours ago, st1800e said:

Gone totally downhill on this topic.   Guy asks for specific routines, and now some are on to PED’s.  
 

Really?   Is this about golf or some kind of macho bravado? 
 

 

I dunno, I’d kinda like to hear more about legal PED’s/supplements that actually work, especially with an aging body like mine.  Years ago, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire all learned how to hit a baseball very hard with the help of chemistry, and I’m sure the science has grown a bit since then.  
 

So how do we apply it to golf and speed training?  

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, stryper said:

I dunno, I’d kinda like to hear more about legal PED’s/supplements that actually work, especially with an aging body like mine.  Years ago, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire all learned how to hit a baseball very hard with the help of chemistry, and I’m sure the science has grown a bit since then.  
 

So how do we apply it to golf and speed training?  

Of course they all hit the ball very hard before chemistry as well.

[RSLP]

Victor is still around, Balco is gone and he has SNAC now. 

[stryper]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Of course they all hit the ball very hard before chemistry as well.

True, but chemistry did help them hit it harder.  

[phizzy30]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:49 AM, stryper said:

I dunno, I’d kinda like to hear more about legal PED’s/supplements that actually work, especially with an aging body like mine.  Years ago, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire all learned how to hit a baseball very hard with the help of chemistry, and I’m sure the science has grown a bit since then.  
 

So how do we apply it to golf and speed training?  

Legal PEDs are mostly garbage TBH.  Any male over 40 can certainly benefit from HRT though.  A little test e/cyp/deconate with a low dose of gh or peptides will work wonders.  You can always go the legal route by going to see an endo or urologist like I did after my bodybuilding years. 

Edited February 11, 2024 by phizzy30

[tmw4h5]

This absolutely blew up. Busy week here in KC with work and the Super Bowl. Let me try to respond to some responses! Also, thanks in advance for the activity in this thread! I truly appreciate you all!

[tmw4h5]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:22 PM, st1800e said:

Check out Titleist Performance  Institute.  Loads of specific exercises there. 
 

If you’re so inclined consider an assessment with a Certified TPI professional. When you search for one near you, take note of their various certification levels.  
They’ll take you through a series of body tests to determine your body limitations for golf.  They’re not measuring strength, rather things like flexibility and range of motion, some limited by flexibility, some just the way your body is put together, and a few other things.    Then you’ll know what to work on.  
 

I’ve done it, immensely helpful.  I took some lessons as well, great results.  
 

https://www.mytpi.com/improve-my-game

 

Very cool! They have a TPI certified expert like two miles from my house!

[tmw4h5]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:11 PM, phizzy30 said:

Strength doesn't directly correlate with how fast you can swing the club so let's get that outta the way first.  With that being said, the things you do besides strength training matter just as much if not more.  Focus more on speed by doing plyometrics, Olympic lifts and resistance band work since it's seems like your not a beginner provided that your flexibility and mobility are adequate.  I also recommend doing exercises on a bosu and yoga ball to further help with stability.  This is a very basic outline but effective at giving you the tools to increase swing speed.  When you're at the range, hit 20-50 balls with driver but go all out.  This will increase your baseline ss at the very least and if you do everything correctly, you should gain significant ss which will translate out on the course provided your swing is technically solid. 

I've improved my flexibility a lot over the past few years and it has resulted in my back being far healthier. I used to have terrible back issues that limited how often I could practice or play. I hit 150 balls at a fitting on Thursday, went to the gym, played golf Friday and went to the gym and my back felt great! 

I have some general anxiety issues where I can feel a little overwhelmed if I'm doing an exercise or action that I'm not familiar with -- I know that I need to find someone who is comfortable in exercises that I'm not familiar with to help me gain confidence in my ability to perform them and perform them correctly. 

[tmw4h5]

On 2/9/2024 at 6:30 AM, johnrobison said:

What is your current routine? You want to be efficient and productive, so it would help to outline what you're already doing. Resistance, non-resistance, specific protocol/frequency.

I know that I 100% need to address my routine. I'm at a point now (36 years old, nearly 37) where I don't particularly enjoy lifting weights and I actually love doing cardio.

On days where I work (9:30am-8pm), I will go to the gym after work (gym is 30 minutes from my house, but close to my work and after getting ringworm one time in my life from showering at the gym, I am strongly opposed to showering at the gym now) and the routine for those nights is typically this:
Cardio - either 10 miles on a stationary bike (31~ minutes) or 200 flights of stairs (28~ minutes)
Stretching and ab work - 20~ minutes - stretches are primarily the stretches recommended to me by my primary physician to help with sciatica. Ab work is crunches/side crunches/torso rotations/leg raises.
If I work the next day, I will go home after this. If I have the next day off, I will extend the cardio and extend the stretching and abs. 

The other days will usually have extended cardio -- common combination will be 150 flights of stairs + 10 miles on the stationary. If it's stationary only, I may do 15-20 miles. If it's stairs only, it can range from 200-300 flights. 
After that, I'll do the standard stretching and ab work and then go into lifting. Legs one day, chest/shoulders one day, arms/back/abs one day, etc).

These gym sessions are usually 1.5-2.5 hours.

[tmw4h5]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:16 AM, phizzy30 said:

 

Balance exercises in general are actually effective for golf because it's tough to find the sweet spot when your coordination and balance on your feet suck.  Doing stability exercises on a yoga and bosu ball help with that.  You guys need to look at the overall scope of things, not just focus on strength and speed.  Also, @Albatross Dreamer, listing specific exercises would be considered "premium content".  We both work in the fitness industry and you gotta know that we can't just give away all our secrets.  I'm all about helping people and paying it forward, but I'm not willing to spoon feed everyone.  😉   

I can absolutely max out my driver swing around 117-118mph, but that is a wild, unbalanced swing. I'm in awe of pros like Rory who can cruise at 125mph and keep perfect balance.

Balance is 100% something I want to improve on.

[tmw4h5]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:55 AM, kenoli22 said:

The Fit for Golf app is great.  Tons of workouts and Mike is very responsive to any questions you might have.  The number of workouts is a little overwhelming, but he has everything from stretching to speed workouts that you can do at the gym and/or at home.

I downloaded the app initially and I was overwhelmed by the number of workouts. I also have generalized anxiety and prefer to have someone there to teach/assist me until I feel comfortable on my own. At that point, I want to workout strictly on my own.

[johnrobison]

40 minutes ago, tmw4h5 said:

I know that I 100% need to address my routine. I'm at a point now (36 years old, nearly 37) where I don't particularly enjoy lifting weights and I actually love doing cardio.

On days where I work (9:30am-8pm), I will go to the gym after work (gym is 30 minutes from my house, but close to my work and after getting ringworm one time in my life from showering at the gym, I am strongly opposed to showering at the gym now) and the routine for those nights is typically this:
Cardio - either 10 miles on a stationary bike (31~ minutes) or 200 flights of stairs (28~ minutes)
Stretching and ab work - 20~ minutes - stretches are primarily the stretches recommended to me by my primary physician to help with sciatica. Ab work is crunches/side crunches/torso rotations/leg raises.
If I work the next day, I will go home after this. If I have the next day off, I will extend the cardio and extend the stretching and abs. 

The other days will usually have extended cardio -- common combination will be 150 flights of stairs + 10 miles on the stationary. If it's stationary only, I may do 15-20 miles. If it's stairs only, it can range from 200-300 flights. 
After that, I'll do the standard stretching and ab work and then go into lifting. Legs one day, chest/shoulders one day, arms/back/abs one day, etc).

These gym sessions are usually 1.5-2.5 hours.

Good info!

In my opinion this is just WAY too much cardio-specific training. I get that you enjoy it - that totally resonates with me - but at a point it becomes counterproductive. Arguably the most important thing we need to be doing is building and maintaining muscle. You can (and I do) get your heart rate up with resistance training which replaces the need to do non-resistance cardio and be much more efficient with your time. And that's what you asked about - how to be more efficient and productive in the gym. If you want to be more efficient and productive, spend 45 minutes hitting the weights hard to the point that your heart rate is high the whole time ("circuit training" style) and then maybe augment with a few minutes of interval sprints at the end. In and out in an hour with great results. Recover for 48 hours and repeat. Resistance training also increases bone density and strengthens connective tissues.

Edited February 11, 2024 by johnrobison

[tmw4h5]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:22 PM, bluedot said:

Seriously?  Your two recommendations are either chipping and putting at home instead of working out, or paying $349/month for a remote workout program?  There’s nothing in between?  
 

For the OP:  I have a couple of questions for you, and a recommendation as well.  

First, what’s your current index?  I ask this because the biggest limitation on speed for most ams is technique.  Regardless of how fast they can swing a stick in speed training, it may be that it doesn’t translate to the course because their swing simply isn’t good enough.  You’re swinging at 111 in your speed work; what’s your swing speed when you’re actually hitting a golf ball?
 

Second, as others have asked, what is your current workout routine?  You are spending a lot of time in the gym, and you feel like you are above average in strength, and both of those things are great.  But are you doing any mobility work, including soft tissue work with a LAX ball and a foam roller?  Are you working on your hip, thoracic spine, shoulder, and neck range of motion?  If those rotational centers don’t move properly, getting stronger won’t help. There is a ton of stuff being done in the gym that has ZERO to do with swinging a golf club well OR fast, and there is a ton of stuff that can be done pretty simply and quickly that does help golf.  
 

As a recommendation, if you are REALLY serious about this stuff, find a way to connect with a professional, in person or virtual, who can assesses YOU, and help setup a workout program for YOU.  If that isn’t possible, then consider some of the online stuff that’s already been recommended, and add it to what you already do.  Keep the compound Olympic lifts, but get rid of some stuff that makes you look good but does little or nothing for a golf swing and eats up gym time.

Current index is around a 3-3.5. I need to start tracking it in the Grint or something similar again. Last five rounds have been 75, 75, 73, 84, 76. I've been playing better than usual. I usually hover around 76-78.

See my other post for my workout routine (which I know definitely needs work lol).

I've worked with 2-3 pros in the past five years and they focused more on helping me fix my swing rather than improving distance or fitness.

[tmw4h5]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:10 PM, Pepperturbo said:

IMO, the best way to get max out of your body, mind and golf is a general exercise regime that you can stick with.  Don't make it so extreme that you mentally slack off and eventually quit.  It has to be part of your lifestyle, like going #2.  LOL 

 

I have been going to the gym since HS football, 3–4 times a week, using weights and doing cardio.  My sports have been eight years HS and college football, martial arts since 14yrs old, 2-Man Beach Sand V-Ball Tournaments in mid-seventies to eighties, CAT racing and other specialized training, tennis, and golf since 90s.  

 

My liking is working out at the gym, but a gym at home helps when it's pouring out.  Unless you're planning on serious regional golf or the tour, exercise does NOT need to be golf-specific, as some declare.  Exercising is for health, and general wellbeing, done right it benefits all activities.  Then there's this; the bodies of some people are just not meant to be "faster", not without a lot of help.  Almost everyone is born with some Fast and Slow twitch muscles, what general exercise does is target ALL muscle groups.

 

Past 70yrs young, still stoking the furnace, still putting up respectable golf scores; I am one example of what's possible as we age.  Our bodies love routine exercise.  The problem is: Most people don't listen to the cry of their bodies.  What the body doesn't like is what I see this time every year at my gym; all the New Year's resolution people who eventually crap out and somewhere down the road whine about what's happening to their body which is preventing them from playing better golf.    

I truly enjoy going to the gym. I love exercising. I just want to make sure that, in addition to maintaining my physical health, that I'm doing workouts that will also improve my golf game.
I also have a job that essentially only requires me working for about 2 hours each day although I'm physically in the store for 10. I want to utilize some of that time to improve my game and swing as well.

[tmw4h5]

8 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Good info!

In my opinion this is just WAY too much cardio-specific training. I get that you enjoy it - that totally resonates with me - but at a point it becomes counterproductive. Arguably the most important thing we need to be doing is building and maintaining muscle. You can (and I do) get your heart rate up with resistance training which replaces the need to do non-resistance cardio and be much more efficient with your time. And that's what you asked about - how to be more efficient and productive in the gym. If you want to be more efficient and productive, spend 45 minutes hitting the weights hard to the point that your heart rate is high the whole time ("circuit training" style) and then maybe augment with a few minutes of interval sprints at the end. In and out in an hour with great results. Recover for 48 hours and repeat. Resistance training also increases bone density and strengthens connective tissues.

I know it's way too much cardio -- I just absolutely love pushing myself as I listen to music that I really enjoy. It also helps me relieve stress and anxiety more than other forms of exercise. I think I'd be very open to maybe doing two gym sessions per day. There's a Planet Fitness close to me (like 1 mile from my house - but their cardio machines suck and it's a small gym, which is why I use the PF close to my work at night) that would be fine for everything non-cardio and I would be totally fine doing the non-cardio workouts there prior to work.

I do like your idea as it also gives me something new to do at the gym to help keep things fresh and fun.

[i*windows]

you have plenty of speed, how much more do you want?

 

if you want to make this the best golf year ever, do you need more speed, or just get rid of your faults?

[stryper]

4 hours ago, i*windows said:

you have plenty of speed, how much more do you want?

 

if you want to make this the best golf year ever, do you need more speed, or just get rid of your faults?

Chasing speed can be a worthy goal unto itself, and can be more satisfying than shaving one or two more strokes off an already solid single-digit handicap.  
 

I’m not the OP, but in my last two recorded sessions I was swinging (with ball) in the 105-108 range.  Not fast, but not bad for my age.  I want 110 and more.  And that motivates me more than turning a nine hole round into a 38 from 39.  

[johnrobison]

7 hours ago, tmw4h5 said:

I know it's way too much cardio -- I just absolutely love pushing myself as I listen to music that I really enjoy. It also helps me relieve stress and anxiety more than other forms of exercise.

You can do that with resistance training, too. Do full-body splits at a heavy enough weight that you're doing, say, 8-10 reps to failure. Hit a muscle group hard and then move onto the next muscle group without rest and you'll be pushing VERY hard. Do 3 rounds of that and only rest between each round. Circuit Training. It's important that you choose a weight heavy enough that your last rep is a fail or very close to it. If you have 8 or 9 sets to cover the full body, you'll be gassed by the end of each round. Best way to workout (unless you're training as a body builder or something).

[phizzy30]

Just now, johnrobison said:

You can do that with resistance training, too. Do full-body splits at a heavy enough weight that you're doing, say, 8-10 reps to failure. Hit a muscle group hard and then move onto the next muscle group without rest and you'll be pushing VERY hard. Do 3 rounds of that and only rest between each round. Circuit Training. It's important that you choose a weight heavy enough that your last rep is a fail or very close to it. If you have 8 or 9 sets to cover the full body, you'll be gassed by the end of each round. Best way to workout (unless you're training as a body builder or something).

Absolutely hate circuit training myself, but I agree, it's very effective for getting heart rate up and adding an element of cardio.  It's also a great time saver.  I'd also like to add that the best way to circuit train is to do it via low volume, high frequency.  Hit full body per session 3 days a week.  Include both compound and isolation exercises. 

[tmw4h5]

10 hours ago, i*windows said:

you have plenty of speed, how much more do you want?

 

if you want to make this the best golf year ever, do you need more speed, or just get rid of your faults?

If I'm going to be putting in time in the gym, why not try to focus some of that time on improving my golf game specifically? It's February in Missouri, so it's difficult to get out and chip and putt or pound range balls. I can putt on the putting mat at home and I will absolutely be back at the range and short-game areas to practice when the weather is great. But why would I not try to maximize my potential with my swing speed and distance?