Cleveland hosel bore depth issue

[schaperb90]

So I got 4 new Cleveland wedges earlier this winter and reshafted the 3 of them that came with spinners. The 4th (my 46°) came with a KBS shaft that I was interested in trying so I left it in alone until now. Anyway, I pulled the shaft this am and was getting ready to install my usual x100, and I noticed it's bore depth is a little over a 1/4" deeper than all 3 of my other wedges. I find this very odd. I called Cleveland and they were no help, so here I am. Anyone run into this before? Is there anything I can do to bridge the gap? If I do shim it higher or use the ferrule as a stopper to get correct install depth, will this make the club feel funny? Any help appreciated. 

[Bad9]

Go ahead and install it as normal. That .25” isn’t going to affect how it plays.

[AmateurAmateur]

That's the zipcore tech they have in the hosel. Took me forever to drill it and clean it out. 

[Streuner]

I have had issues with Cleveland irons, the hosel bore was significantly deeper than usual and they placed hosel weights into the deep section. When I pulled the shafts some weights came out, others not… very painful 

[Stuart_G]

19 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

So I got 4 new Cleveland wedges earlier this winter and reshafted the 3 of them that came with spinners. The 4th (my 46°) came with a KBS shaft that I was interested in trying so I left it in alone until now. Anyway, I pulled the shaft this am and was getting ready to install my usual x100, and I noticed it's bore depth is a little over a 1/4" deeper than all 3 of my other wedges. I find this very odd. I called Cleveland and they were no help, so here I am. Anyone run into this before? Is there anything I can do to bridge the gap? If I do shim it higher or use the ferrule as a stopper to get correct install depth, will this make the club feel funny? Any help appreciated. 

 

Don't worry about the bore depth, it's really not all that important.   How the club and shaft will play is much more about the BBGM - the distance from the bottom of the bore to the ground - not the bore depth.    Basically stick the shaft in all the way and see how the playing length is different.   

 

Secondly, for wedges most ams wouldn't be able to notice the difference even if the BBGM was different by 1/4" - just make sure you get the desired playing length (and swing weight) correct and you should be fine.  I doubt it would bother most pros as well.    

 

 

 

[schaperb90]

18 hours ago, AmateurAmateur said:

That's the zipcore tech they have in the hosel. Took me forever to drill it and clean it out. 

 

I don't understand. Why would the zipcore be so different on only one wedge? I'm at the bottom of the bore on all of them. 

 

5 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Don't worry about the bore depth, it's really not all that important.   How the club and shaft will play is much more about the BBGM - the distance from the bottom of the bore to the ground - not the bore depth.    Basically stick the shaft in all the way and see how the playing length is different.   

 

Secondly, for wedges most ams wouldn't be able to notice the difference even if the BBGM was different by 1/4" - just make sure you get the desired playing length (and swing weight) correct and you should be fine.  I doubt it would bother most pros as well.    

 

 

 

 

Well the BBMG is 1/4" lower on the 50° then the rest, so isn't the bore being 1/4" deeper directly correlated to the BBMG? 2 way of saying the same thing? Or am I missing something?

[Stuart_G]

8 minutes ago, schaperb90 said:

Well the BBMG is 1/4" lower on the 50° then the rest, so isn't the bore being 1/4" deeper directly correlated to the BBMG? 2 way of saying the same thing? Or am I missing something?

 

No - they are two separate measurements.  They are the measurements of two separate sides of the head.  The bore depth is also dependent on the length of the hosel - which can vary a lot in wedges.  @Howard_Jones had a good picture to show the difference better than words.   I'll see if I can find it.

Edited February 28, 2024 by Stuart_G

[schaperb90]

16 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

No - they are two separate measurements.  They are the measurements of two separate sides of the head.  The bore depth is also dependent on the length of the hosel - which can vary a lot in wedges.  @Howard_Jones had a good picture to show the difference better than words.   I'll see if I can find it.

 

So I'm not doubting that can be the case, but what I'm saying is it isn't in mine. Here are some pics. Same length hosel (essentially, and actually the club with the deeper hosel has the shorter hosel), same distance to first step when outside of hosel, and then the first 1/4" deeper when installed because of bore depth. 

[Stuart_G]

19 minutes ago, schaperb90 said:

 

So I'm not doubting that can be the case, but what I'm saying is it isn't in mine.

 

 

That might be the case.  If it is, the BBGM measurements will validate that - or not.  It's just not something that there is any point in making any assumptions about.

 

Edited February 28, 2024 by Stuart_G

[schaperb90]

5 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That might be the case.  If it is, the BBGM measurements will validate that - or not.  It's just not something that there is any point in making any assumptions about.

 

 

So I dove more into this after looking some stuff up, and the 50° shaft does measure a little over 1/4" shorter when installed, the exact same difference of the bore depth. I'm assuming this validates the the BBTG is in fact different, but only on my 50°.

 

I think my plan will be to set my ferrule to a depth that will match the rest of the clubs, and install not fully seated. Unsure if this will effect playing characteristics or feel, but I guess we will find out. I'll report back someday if it doesn't work out in case anyone else runs into the issue in the future. 

[ode1]

If you are determined to play it 1/4" longer then you should either make a spacer to raise where the shaft seats or get an extension.....and please heed the advice being given re why the club is measuring shorter!

[Howard_Jones]

im not sure why it is like that, but i would NOT shim it UP, it will only cause a larger spill where the tip ends up, and since there is no GW shafts, this club will play like its tip trimmed 2/8", and i would rather use that, then risk a bad fit to the hosel and a possible flying head.

Since i dont know how the hosel looks like down there, but the shaft seems to be able to be fully inserted, i would have installed that shaft like that.

SHAFT - SHAFT IN HOSEL - YOUR CASE SHIMMED UP (Black & Red)
Assuming it IS a 1.50" insert Taper design all the way (the last 6/8")
RED AREAS IS HOSEL SPILL (the last 6/8 will have too much space)

Edited February 29, 2024 by Howard_Jones

[Stuart_G]

10 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

I think my plan will be to set my ferrule to a depth that will match the rest of the clubs, and install not fully seated. Unsure if this will effect playing characteristics or feel, but I guess we will find out. I'll report back someday if it doesn't work out in case anyone else runs into the issue in the future. 

 

Just repeating what Howard said in a different way.

 

Blind bore installations (less then full insertion depth) should only be done with parallel tip shafts/hosels, not with taper tip shafts.

 

It's only 1/4".   I'm not trying to be offensive - but it seems to me that you might be getting a bit too obsessive about the wrong things for this build.   Yes, sometimes the little details can matter - but there are also times when they don't.   Knowing when not to be too obsessive about certain details is just as important a skill as knowing when to be.

 

Edited February 29, 2024 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Just repeating what Howard said in a different way.

 

Blind bore installations (less then full insertion depth) should only be done with parallel tip shafts/hosels, not with taper tip shafts.

 

It's only 1/4".   I'm not trying to be offensive - but it seems to me that you might be getting a bit too obsessive about the wrong things for this build.   Yes, sometimes the little details can matter - but there are also times when they don't.   Knowing when not to be too obsessive about certain details is just as important a skill as knowing when to be.

 

Thanks Stuart, you nailed it.....but if we absolutly need to, it might be done if we combine it with brass shims like we use for .355 shafts in 0.370 hosel, but it might be a job where you need to adjust (shorten) the arms of the shim if it gets to tight where it ends....been there, done that....but in this case? NOPE, if it is a GW, i would tip trim 3/8" and take advantage of 2/8" deeper insert = equal to 5/8" tip trim or a full shaft stronger. (combined with 3/8" tip trim)

[schaperb90]

On 2/29/2024 at 4:25 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Just repeating what Howard said in a different way.

 

Blind bore installations (less then full insertion depth) should only be done with parallel tip shafts/hosels, not with taper tip shafts.

 

It's only 1/4".   I'm not trying to be offensive - but it seems to me that you might be getting a bit too obsessive about the wrong things for this build.   Yes, sometimes the little details can matter - but there are also times when they don't.   Knowing when not to be too obsessive about certain details is just as important a skill as knowing when to be.

 

 

Sorry for delayed response, I'm not trying to be obsessive about it, it's just an issue I've never come across, and was expecting there to be an easy solution such as shimming it, using the ferrule to not fully seat it, or some other purpose built solution for this kind of situation. It's not that I'm that concerned with the 1/4" in terms of performance, but more so I was in the middle of it, with my clubs already disassembled, and could easily address it now. But if the answer is simple forget it and glue it up, I'm fine with that. 

[rbpwrx]

Hope this is obvious, but insertion depth will affect function and feel of the shaft. A 1.75" bore depth will play quite a bit stiffer than a 1.25" bore. Same as tipping the shaft 1/2" in the shallower hosel.

[CTG77]

I see this was a bit of a dead thread until @rbpwrx revived it a few hours ago, but since I'll be reshafting a 54° RTX6 on Monday or Tuesday, I happened to notice the thread and wanted to ask @schaperb90 how he ended up installing the 50° wedge and how it's played for the last year or so.

[schaperb90]

6 hours ago, CTG77 said:

I see this was a bit of a dead thread until @rbpwrx revived it a few hours ago, but since I'll be reshafting a 54° RTX6 on Monday or Tuesday, I happened to notice the thread and wanted to ask @schaperb90 how he ended up installing the 50° wedge and how it's played for the last year or so.

 

I ended up tipping the shaft for my 46° to match. I figured that either way it would be fairly indiscernible, but since on X100s the 9 and PW shaft are the same, I figured if it played a touch stiffer in the PW that wouldn't be a bad thing. It's been fine, nothing noteworthy in terms of change in feel or flight. I will do it the same way again if I ever encounter this in the future. Still unsure as to why the 50°s bore depth was the only one deeper in the set of wedges though. 

[rbpwrx]

6 hours ago, CTG77 said:

I see this was a bit of a dead thread until @rbpwrx revived it a few hours ago, but since I'll be reshafting a 54° RTX6 on Monday or Tuesday, I happened to notice the thread and wanted to ask @schaperb90 how he ended up installing the 50° wedge and how it's played for the last year or so.

Yeah, I ran into this b/c I was swapping shafts from RTX4 to T24, and the Mizzys are 1/2" shallower, and the wedges play VERY different, with much more tip action, and of course an extra 1/2" in length. I think I will tip 3/8" (or whatever I can get away with and still bottom the shaft), and butt trim to length. But I must say, I prefer the deeper bore of the Clevelands. Feels more solid and integrated, in addition to being more stable at the tip. Don't know why Mizuno goes so shallow.