Pressure shift to lead side, conscious move?

[ZGriswold83]

I have watched every Instagram short, YouTube video, Power Shift, NTC, etc. I have tried pushing off of my trail foot, flexing my lead knee, squatting and I still don't understand the pressure shift into my lead side. I can feel pressure going into the ground through my trail heel but I can't recreate that feeling with my lead foot. It feels like there's no pressure available to send down through my lead foot/heel. I'm trying to shift as early as I possibly can, when it feels like I am at arms parallel to the ground in my backswing. Is this something that is conscious or is it a result of proper sequence and movement that makes the pressure shift happen on it's own?

 

This video was the closest thing that sort of clicked with me but I ended up hitting everything fatter than normal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkSlsZhyFA?si=HIFDCyxAeYyQRkJY

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s like everything else in the swing.  If you already do it, you don’t have to think about it.  If you don’t, you do.

If you do it right, you shouldn’t hit it fat.

 

Post videos of your swing.  There’s something inherent in what you do that’s preventing it from happening if you’ve put all that effort in and it’s still a major issue.

[iacas]

Not a big fan here of pushing off with the trail foot/leg.

 

I call it a "gravity" move - flex (shorten) the front leg and you'll "fall" and "land" over that ankle. Then you can "jump" on that leg to push your lead hip up/around.

 

But… yes. Post your swing.

 

Edited February 28, 2024 by iacas

[AFcelica]

35 minutes ago, ZGriswold83 said:

I have watched every Instagram short, YouTube video, Power Shift, NTC, etc. I have tried pushing off of my trail foot, flexing my lead knee, squatting and I still don't understand the pressure shift into my lead side. I can feel pressure going into the ground through my trail heel but I can't recreate that feeling with my lead foot. It feels like there's no pressure available to send down through my lead foot/heel. I'm trying to shift as early as I possibly can, when it feels like I am at arms parallel to the ground in my backswing. Is this something that is conscious or is it a result of proper sequence and movement that makes the pressure shift happen on it's own?

 

This video was the closest thing that sort of clicked with me but I ended up hitting everything fatter than normal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkSlsZhyFA?si=HIFDCyxAeYyQRkJY

 

 
this one made it click for me. Can almost guarantee you move off the ball too much on the backswing and have to shift toward the target. If done right to me it feels like I don’t “shift” left I just push downward into my left foot/heel. As a long time swayer. If you’re too far off the ball you can’t just push down because you’re out of position. Like you said you have nothing to push with. You have to slide back to the left which is less ideal

Edited February 28, 2024 by AFcelica

[cav5]

When you decide its time to go from the top of your backswing, you must build up energy in the body and arms. Not the hands. Call it transition or whatever you want, but you need to create a kinetic snap which doesn't get to the hands. Similar to if you would clean and press. You're currently creating a tug environment similar to never getting the weight off the floor. You'll get lots of fancy answers, but that's the real one. 🤑

[Primo1868]

11 minutes ago, cav5 said:

When you decide its time to go from the top of your backswing, you must build up energy in the body and arms. Not the hands. Call it transition or whatever you want, but you need to create a kinetic snap which doesn't get to the hands. Similar to if you would clean and press. You're currently creating a tug environment similar to never getting the weight off the floor. You'll get lots of fancy answers, but that's the real one. 🤑

here we gooooo..

[AFcelica]

[ZGriswold83]

13 minutes ago, Primo1868 said:

here we gooooo..

What have I started?!?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, AFcelica said:

 

 
this one made it click for me. Can almost guarantee you move off the ball too much on the backswing and have to shift toward the target. If done right to me it feels like I don’t “shift” left I just push downward into my left foot/heel. As a long time swayer. If you’re too far off the ball you can’t just push down because you’re out of position. Like you said you have nothing to push with. You have to slide back to the left which is less ideal

You hit the nail on the head when you said, “this one made it click for me.”

 

I have yet to see someone who can’t do this correctly.  However, the correct concept needs to be found.  Not always easy.

 

I had a guy for a lesson the other day.   Very smart and a solid athlete.  All the usual discussions that get people in the right direction didn’t work.  I had to think outside the box and after a longer discussion, got him there.

Edited February 28, 2024 by MonteScheinblum

[cav5]

Those AMG guys are wrong. It's not even close to one fluent motion. The only thing smooth is the acceleration in the pivot and arms. Meaning the acceleration is constant with no spike. That ends with the arms in order for spiked acceleration to happen in the clubhead. Pivot and arms stay are in constant acceleration (which the AMG demonstrators clearly don't), but slow derivatively to the clubhead.

 

Really don't need to know any of that if you get my analogy. Don't worry I like playing the troll LOL. If you've ever cleaned or jerked or benched you know you get max efficiency if your intent is to break or bend the barbell in half. That's the spike acceleration and the weight becomes weightless (in layman terms) and you can move how you intend.

 

Smoothness throughout just makes the club heavier, sooner, and now you can't move at all. If you have a lot of youtube subscribers tho its fine LOL, or just get downshift board.

Edited February 28, 2024 by cav5

[ZGriswold83]

2 hours ago, AFcelica said:

 

 
this one made it click for me. Can almost guarantee you move off the ball too much on the backswing and have to shift toward the target. If done right to me it feels like I don’t “shift” left I just push downward into my left foot/heel. As a long time swayer. If you’re too far off the ball you can’t just push down because you’re out of position. Like you said you have nothing to push with. You have to slide back to the left which is less ideal

I set up to a door frame with my trail hip a few inches away from the frame. Tried my normal backswing movement and immediately hit the frame. I then tried to miss the frame or in my mind move 'away' from the frame and wow what a difference. I think I am getting weight shift confused with pressure shift. I need to think 'stay centered' over the ball. After a few reps, I then tried the squat or zipper away method of pressure shift and actually had something to put into my lead foot. I'll be doing nothing but anti sway drills until the golf season gets going.

 

Between this post and this recent Monte Instagram post, some real lightbulb moments.

Edited February 28, 2024 by ZGriswold83

[GolfTurkey]

13 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Those AMG guys are wrong. It's not even close to one fluent motion. The only thing smooth is the acceleration in the pivot and arms. Meaning the acceleration is constant with no spike. That ends at the hands in order for spiked acceleration to happen in the clubhead. Pivot and arms stay are in constant acceleration (which the AMG demonstrators clearly don't), but slow derivatively to the clubhead.

 

Really don't need to know any of that if you get my analogy. Don't worry I like playing the troll LOL. If you've ever cleaned or jerked or benched you know you get max efficiency if your intent is to break or bend the barbell in half. That's the spike acceleration and the weight becomes weightless (in layman terms) and you can move how you intend.

 

Smoothness throughout just makes the club heavier, sooner, and now you can't move at all. If you have a lot of youtube subscribers tho its fine LOL, or just get downshift board.

 

[MonteScheinblum]

16 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

 

[cav5]

8 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

 

So you can't see the AMG dump his pivot to add lag because he maxed his run out? If we're gonna pick a model like this you have to know his compensatory moves too. Guess that helps business tho LOL

[AFcelica]

3 hours ago, ZGriswold83 said:

I set up to a door frame with my trail hip a few inches away from the frame. Tried my normal backswing movement and immediately hit the frame. I then tried to miss the frame or in my mind move 'away' from the frame and wow what a difference. I think I am getting weight shift confused with pressure shift. I need to think 'stay centered' over the ball. After a few reps, I then tried the squat or zipper away method of pressure shift and actually had something to put into my lead foot. I'll be doing nothing but anti sway drills until the golf season gets going.

 

Between this post and this recent Monte Instagram post, some real lightbulb moments.

Exactly!! It gave me the feeling that the “weight shift” is vertical not horizontal if that makes sense

 

 

edit oh, just something to look out for. my old release pattern when i was swaying both ways doesn't work with this new proper centered pivot or whatever you want to call it. you might have to figure that out as well. dont get discouraged though it'll be worth it once you figure that out. i'm already up 5mph on my 6iron on my swing speed radar which already went 190 carry with a 30*mb 6iron. can't wait to get back from this business trip and see what it looks like on GCquad. hopfully my SSR isn't lying to me! lol

Edited February 29, 2024 by AFcelica

[MonteScheinblum]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Not a big fan here of pushing off with the trail foot/leg.

 

I call it a "gravity" move - flex (shorten) the front leg and you'll "fall" and "land" over that ankle. Then you can "jump" on that leg to push your lead hip up/around.

 

But… yes. Post your swing.

 

I disagree, it sucks.  I’m not a big fan of pistachio ice cream, but understand how people love it.  Pushing off the trail leg is salmon flavored ice cream.

[Jbarretta]

Lately i have been working on stopping the sway by focusing on keeping the trail leg angled durind the backswing meaning the trail leg center of the hip never goes vertical stacked where the hip is directly over the knee and ankle   once that happens you swayed and will have trouble getting back to the front side.

 

Also i found that keeping some foot pressure on the inside of the front foot helps keep weight centered otherwise the big shift causes me to slam the front heel down too soon which puts me into left sise bend too soon   you want pressure in both feet until p6 imo then max pressure to front foot.  Without pressure on both feet i find it hard to unwind the chest and pivot to fling the arms

Edited February 29, 2024 by Jbarretta

[Albatross Dreamer]

9 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I disagree, it sucks.  I’m not a big fan of pistachio ice cream, but understand how people love it.  Pushing off the trail leg is salmon flavored ice cream.

Do you or @iacas have people where "pushing off the trail leg" is a feel that they need in order to stay on the front side?

 

The reason I ask is because due to the asymmetry of human anatomy we're biased towards being "in/stuck" on our right hip. Depending on the level of overall compression in the system their body may be constantly trying to get back to that right side as it becomes an ingrained pattern over time. 

 

I can see a scenario if they don't "push off the trail leg" they could end up bouncing back to that right leg due to their difficulty transferring weight from their right side to left side. Vs "pushing off the trail leg" would serve as keeping the right side as sort of a post so to speak so they stay on their left side. Hope that makes sense.

 

EDIT: I suppose there's also multiple times that feeling could be in effect in terms of being pre/during/post pressure shift to front side

Edited February 29, 2024 by Albatross Dreamer

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Do you or @iacas have people where "pushing off the trail leg" is a feel that they need in order to stay on the front side?

 

I'm not sure what "In order to stay on the front side" means. I don't teach people to "stay" on the front side — I like to see weight and pressure shift back early, shift forward early (with more of a "fall" move and not much of a "push" at all), and then spike at the right time in the right dimensions on the downswing.

 

To be honest I don't see a lot of people who "sway" their hips back too much and would almost be willing to bet that I see more who turn their trail hip to the target a bit too early (like immediately during the backswing), and far more than that whose center-of-pelvis shifts out toward the golf ball during the backswing.

 

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

The reason I ask is because due to the asymmetry of human anatomy we're biased towards being "in/stuck" on our right hip.

 

I don't know that I agree.

 

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I can see a scenario if they don't "push off the trail leg" they could end up bouncing back to that right leg due to their difficulty transferring weight from their right side to left side. Vs "pushing off the trail leg" would serve as keeping the right side as sort of a post so to speak so they stay on their left side. Hope that makes sense.

 

EDIT: I suppose there's also multiple times that feeling could be in effect in terms of being pre/during/post pressure shift to front side

 

I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. Do some people hang out too far back (more 50/50 than actually on their trail side)? Yes. I agree with that.

 

But I don't teach it as a "push" and I've taught a bunch of lessons where I teach someone to "hang out on their right side longer." There's even a live lesson with AMG that's similar, IIRC.

[Duffer Mark]

This excerpt from Monte's Power Shift (which I have), really helps me feel and shift my pressure well. When I follow the drill, it's like my pressure shifts automatically.

 

Here is an excerpt of a drill from my video POWER SHIFT, where I teach the sequence of movements in the backswing. This is an important… | Instagram

[Albatross Dreamer]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know that I agree.

If you look at our anatomy (hint: not bones) we're not symmetrical. As a result we're more likely to shift weight onto the right side of our body and over time it can become our primary stance. People have varying degrees of ability to get from the right leg to the left left in movement.

 

Note: the "stuck on the right side" wasn't related to the golf swing specifically just life in general.

 

 

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

I'm not sure what "In order to stay on the front side" means. I don't teach people to "stay" on the front side — I like to see weight and pressure shift back early, shift forward early (with more of a "fall" move and not much of a "push" at all), and then spike at the right time in the right dimensions on the downswing.

 

To be honest I don't see a lot of people who "sway" their hips back too much and would almost be willing to bet that I see more who turn their trail hip to the target a bit too early (like immediately during the backswing), and far more than that whose center-of-pelvis shifts out toward the golf ball during the backswing.

 

I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. Do some people hang out too far back (more 50/50 than actually on their trail side)? Yes. I agree with that.

 

But I don't teach it as a "push" and I've taught a bunch of lessons where I teach someone to "hang out on their right side longer." There's even a live lesson with AMG that's similar, IIRC.

Sorry if not more clear. I'm saying pressure goes from right leg to left leg. At impact someone is 75/25 (or whatever) front leg/back leg in terms of pressure. That back leg is doing something to keep the body in the correct position, to which I'm asking if it could feel like a push to some people as the right hip fires forward.

[AFcelica]

A push transfers weight not pressure. If you push off the rear foot you cant have 75% of your pressure on the lead leg. You’d have almost all of it on the rear leg. If you want 100% pressure on your lead leg for example, you wouldn’t push toward the lead side. You would lift your trail foot off the ground instead. Simple concept but hard to differentiate for most people I think

Edited February 29, 2024 by AFcelica

[ZGriswold83]

2 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

This excerpt from Monte's Power Shift (which I have), really helps me feel and shift my pressure well. When I follow the drill, it's like my pressure shifts automatically.

 

Here is an excerpt of a drill from my video POWER SHIFT, where I teach the sequence of movements in the backswing. This is an important… | Instagram

I'll have to re-watch this drill in the full video.

[Zitlow]

Like the rest of the swing it has to be properly trained until you can do it by feel using proprioception. 

 

"Proprioception is the sense that lets us perceive the location, movement, and action of parts of the body."

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

If you look at our anatomy (hint: not bones) we're not symmetrical. As a result we're more likely to shift weight onto the right side of our body and over time it can become our primary stance. People have varying degrees of ability to get from the right leg to the left left in movement.

 

Note: the "stuck on the right side" wasn't related to the golf swing specifically just life in general.

 

 

This is probably a rabbit hole, but can you explain this? Is this asymmetry a cause, or perhaps a result, of the majority of humans being right-side dominant? Or is it inherent due to asymmetry in our organs? Is that asymmetry reversed in people who are left-side dominant (obv couldn't be dependent on organs then b/c they're not reversed)? 

 

I ask as someone who is left-handed (albeit my right arm being stronger due to use/learning to play throwing/hitting sports right-handed) and who is left-footed (and learned kicking sports left-footed so my left leg is stronger than my right). Also left-eye dominant, which I don't know if it affects anything. 

 

Quote

Sorry if not more clear. I'm saying pressure goes from right leg to left leg. At impact someone is 75/25 (or whatever) front leg/back leg in terms of pressure. That back leg is doing something to keep the body in the correct position, to which I'm asking if it could feel like a push to some people as the right hip fires forward.

 

As @AFcelica mentions pushing off the right foot is the exact opposite of getting your pressure left. Or at least it is when done late... Which is the fault that many of us (myself included) have due to too much sway off the ball in the backswing and not getting back to the lead side soon enough. We still have to "get back to the ball" in the downswing so what should be a pivot becomes a slide, powered by the right foot. But if you're pushing with the right foot, that's exactly where your pressure is at that moment and exactly where it shouldn't be (if done late). 

 

What I don't know is whether a feeling, of not necessarily actively "pushing", but of "resisting" with the right foot in the backswing, might help people like me who sway too much and get to the lead side late reduce the sway to an appropriate level and actually get the pressure back to the lead side at the right time. Right now I'm working on other stuff in my swing but attacking the sway is next on my list, so there might be a number of different "feels" that I'm going to have to work with to figure out what helps it for me. 

Edited February 29, 2024 by betarhoalphadelta

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

As @AFcelica mentions pushing off the right foot is the exact opposite of getting your pressure left. Or at least it is when done late... Which is the fault that many of us (myself included) have due to too much sway off the ball in the backswing and not getting back to the lead side soon enough. We still have to "get back to the ball" in the downswing so what should be a pivot becomes a slide, powered by the right foot. But if you're pushing with the right foot, that's exactly where your pressure is at that moment and exactly where it shouldn't be (if done late). 

 

What I don't know is whether a feeling, of not necessarily actively "pushing", but of "resisting" with the right foot in the backswing, might help people like me who sway too much and get to the lead side late reduce the sway to an appropriate level and actually get the pressure back to the lead side at the right time. Right now I'm working on other stuff in my swing but attacking the sway is next on my list, so there might be a number of different "feels" that I'm going to have to work with to figure out what helps it for me. 

 

2 hours ago, AFcelica said:

A push transfers weight not pressure. If you push off the rear foot you cant have 75% of your pressure on the lead leg. You’d have almost all of it on the rear leg. If you want 100% pressure on your lead leg for example, you wouldn’t push toward the lead side. You would lift your trail foot off the ground instead. Simple concept but hard to differentiate for most people I think

Yes and no, and it's more complicated then that. Sometimes to decrease pressure you have to first increase it. The key is getting in the right amounts for the outcome you're pursuing. Not to mention there's other things such as relative vs absolute pressure/force/weight as someone could have increasing pressure on one side but it could still be decreasing as a percentage. 

 

To use your getting pressure on the lead leg example you absolutely could push towards the lead side as one way of doing it. Depending on your stance how do you lift the trail foot? By pushing into the ground which then pushes you away from the ground/lifting the foot. Now there's other ways to achieve it as well such as pushing hard with the left leg which would raise the right off the ground too. Now I'm not saying that you should be pushing like you're trying to jump laterally or that a hard push would be the best avenue in a golf swing, only that the analogy isn't exactly accurate when it comes to basic movement. The easiest way to do it is just standing around and seeing how you can increase/decrease pressure in each foot in different ways, stances, etc.

 

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

This is probably a rabbit hole, but can you explain this? Is this asymmetry a cause, or perhaps a result, of the majority of humans being right-side dominant? Or is it inherent due to asymmetry in our organs? Is that asymmetry reversed in people who are left-side dominant (obv couldn't be dependent on organs then b/c they're not reversed)? 

 

I ask as someone who is left-handed (albeit my right arm being stronger due to use/learning to play throwing/hitting sports right-handed) and who is left-footed (and learned kicking sports left-footed so my left leg is stronger than my right). Also left-eye dominant, which I don't know if it affects anything. 

It is a rabbit hole, and one I'm still going down myself. You got pretty close as it is related to organs. But it starts with the diaphragm, and due to internal organs that aren't symmetrical makes the diaphragm take a specific shape that it's larger on the right side. Due to this and that breathing is kind of important it'll bias us to the right side (look how many people tend to post up on their right hip vs left when standing around). This also results in a slight rotation of the pelvis with the right side going back a bit and the front going forward. Which has a whole bunch of implications for a variety of things for which is outside the scope of this thread.

[aramirez24]

This one from the Chasing Scratch/TPI guys helped me out a lot. Like someone above mentioned, focusing on the trail leg for me ends up with me putting even more pressure on that side. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0THbv6om4U

[MattC555]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:59 PM, iacas said:

I call it a "gravity" move - flex (shorten) the front leg and you'll "fall" and "land" over that ankle. Then you can "jump" on that leg to push your lead hip up/around.

 

 

This is excellent advice.  👍

[getitdaily]

Like with anything you're trying to feel that's a big change, you have to over exaggerate the feel.

 

Try this, AS SOON AS you start the backswing, push down hard into your lead foot. P3 is too late if you're trying to feel something different. Super, super early to get the feel and then work out the true "when" once you know what it's supposed to feel like.

[iacas]

22 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

If you look at our anatomy (hint: not bones) we're not symmetrical. As a result we're more likely to shift weight onto the right side of our body and over time it can become our primary stance.

 

I don't necessarily agree (or disagree). It seems like you want to try to make generalizations, which plays a role in discussing golf swing stuff, but on this… I don't know that it's the way I'd go about discussing it.

 

I see a lot of people who go forward too early, too. Sometimes the fix for them is to feel like they stay right for a LOOOOOONG time.

 

22 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

People have varying degrees of ability to get from the right leg to the left left in movement.

 

Of course, but…

 

22 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Sorry if not more clear. I'm saying pressure goes from right leg to left leg. At impact someone is 75/25 (or whatever) front leg/back leg in terms of pressure. That back leg is doing something to keep the body in the correct position, to which I'm asking if it could feel like a push to some people as the right hip fires forward.

 

Feel ain't real. It can "feel" like a push to some people, and some people actually do abduct the trail leg to "push" themselves forward a bit. It's not my preferred way to do it.

 

Others who "feel" it aren't actually pushing themselves forward, they're falling more like I prefer, but they "feel" like they're pushing for whatever reason.