Pressure shift to lead side, conscious move?

[cav5]

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

[johnrobison]

9 hours ago, cav5 said:

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

Why do you spend so much time in the educational section of a thing that can't be taught?

 

[AFcelica]

10 hours ago, cav5 said:

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

Geez I can just imagine how hard it must be for you to walk down some steps. 
 

“ahhh motion! do I push off the ball of my foot or lift the heel? Oh the timing of the knee bend can’t be learned. Fire the hip or push down on the opposite side?

 

 

[GoGoErky]

15 hours ago, cav5 said:

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

Anything can be taught whether you want to admit it or not. 

[Ajgaguy83]

18 hours ago, cav5 said:

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

 

Again, you have ignored every question asked of you. It's clear no one call tell you...... but that's not necessary a reflection on everyone trying....... so move on.

 

Children default to "you can't tell me" as they go back to their sandboxes. You're engaging in conversation. People point out EXTREME flaws. You circumvent and disregard all explanations, only to say, you can't tell me and that others haven't explained. Makes sense.

 

Piano teachers also teach motion, just like golf teachers.  

 

Here's an interesting piano piece that has lots of MOVEMENT, which is TAUGHT. Just like the golf swing. 

 

 

 

Here's a simple question, why would the best golfers in the world have and pay teachers if it's unnecessary? Do you think they're all stupid? Sure some can be fooled, and yes, like all things in life, some get worse with a teacher, but on the whole wouldn't they all figured it out by now if teachers are so unnecessary and it's such a Ponzi scheme?

 

Likewise, conservatories are a Ponzi scheme right? No need, the best in the world have been brain washed and clearly do not improve by going. They are honored to waste their time and money enduring the hardship with no measurable improvement...... It's just a note. Press it. In time. No nuance needed. No movement needed.

 

It's totally fine if certain teachings aren't your thing, but being dogmatic and authoritative is a silly look when it's not founded. Seriously man, I (and I'm quite certain others) have nothing against you and it's not a personal thing. I figure we (WRX users, you and I included) are similar, we're all trying to discuss and engage, learn, help others, etc. Best of luck to you, I mean that. I hope your golf and piano treat you well. 

 

Meanwhile, topic at hand. Pressure shift to the lead side, is it a conscious move. Well, it is a movement and I'm in the camp that for some yes, it requires conscious training and awareness, and  others not so much as they do it well. 

 

 

 

 

[Booker_T]

The pressure shift for me is totally unconscious. The more video I watch of my swing the more I notice that I pick my lead heel up during the backswing. Jamming my heel down on the turf initiates my downswing and weight shift back to the lead foot. 

[johnrobison]

13 hours ago, Ajgaguy83 said:

I figure we (WRX users, you and I included) are similar, we're all trying to discuss and engage, learn, help others, etc.

You're giving him WAY too much credit when he's proven quite clearly that he is, in fact, NOT here for those reasons. Far from it.

[baudi]

13 hours ago, Ajgaguy83 said:

Here's an interesting piano piece that has lots of MOVEMENT, which is TAUGHT. Just like the golf swing. 

 

Off- and on topic

Anyone who enlightens this forum with the clarity of Maurizio Pollini 😀 is unconditionally considered to be a friend. Thank you kindly for uplifting the cultural level. Without going astray too far off, a version of Joyful Island I also enjoy is by  Richter, back then aged 77. One of his fundamentals of play was to stick to the partiture and hardly any own interpretation allowed. 

 

Without boring the community too much -lol, the point is this: on the technical end Richter's performance is less proficient (who am I to judge) but the dynamics in storytelling are compelling. So how do you learn that? Is it a gift of life, a talent of nature? Or is it profound study? I truly don't know but this aspect might cover the thoughts of Cav 5.

 

 

 

 

[staylor1634]

For me, this has been the best explanation of footwork/pressure shift. 

[Valtiel]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:35 PM, cav5 said:

Again none of you have explained the golf swing. You have theory’s which don’t implicit a golf swing. Great you make money at it. Still can’t tell me.

A piano teacher tells you in which time to play a note. You can’t tell that to a motion no matter what you say.

[McDuffer925]

I feel like a golf swing is just completely counter to common sense. Lessons with a reputable coach should be your number one concern. Its very hard for some if not most people (including myself) to learn by just watching a video and beating balls. Once you DO get it though it becomes more intuitive. Something that helped it click with me working on my own is thinking of how you swing a baseball bat back and forth as if you were hitting a ball. Pay attention to how your feet move or perceive the pressure shift as it happens. Then act as if you are pitching a baseball toward a target and how your pressure moves forward toward the target and chest/arm follows. Then feel it in a more similar golf position like skipping a stone across a pond. The way you HAVE to move your pressure  toward your intended target in all those cases feels identical to me now in my golf swing. Obviously other things in the grip, takeaway, backswing come into play but specifically for the pressure shift thats how I feel it, right or wrong. I think a lot of us just lose it in the application once you put a golf club in our hand haha. The best you can do on here is post a swing video and hope the feedback you get from guys like monte can straighten you out some. 

[ac6]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:22 PM, Golf_Goof said:

Maybe it depends on how large one's middle post is? 😉

 

Who cares about pressure shift. Someone needs to come in and tell us how to control the low point of this thread lol

[AFcelica]

Yeah it’s getting bad 2 brand new profiles come into the mix. Cant wait to see what kind of nonsense this brings

[GoGoErky]

4 hours ago, jmoor4 said:

 

Not smart enough to know the answer but I think there's a little more to it.  What about ancient hand whistles?  You can be taught the general shape of the hands and air chamber by someone from the outside but that's about it, you'll have to figure out how to keep the air chamber intact, pressures for different notes, bunch of stuff.   What about blowing smoke rings with cigarettes, you can be told and shown but the how you'll have to suss out yourself.   Straight edge razors, bunches of stuff once past the general idea you have to learn motion, pressures, or relationships on your own.  Would this be different?  

It’s up to the student to practice what they are taught. Some people can’t learn to do certain things but that doesn’t mean it’s not something that can’t be taught.

 

 

How to code can be taught. Can everyone do it? Probably not, but the rest can be taught to do it to some level. 

 

let’s use a non natural movement like throwing a baseball. It can be taught, some will still not be able

to throw it well while others will excel and hit 100+mph on the radar gun. Some will learn to throw a curveball well and some won’t and they will get eaten alive by a good hitter. Because some can only learn the basic does that mean it can’t be taught?

 

Using your examples, there are people that can do them when they are taught. So even though others can’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be taught it means the person couldn’t learn it.

Edited March 11, 2024 by GoGoErky

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

It’s up to the student to practice what they are taught. Some people can’t learn to do certain things but that doesn’t mean it’s not something that can’t be taught.

 

 

How to code can be taught. Can everyone do it? Probably not, but the rest can be taught to do it to some level. 

 

let’s use a non natural movement like throwing a baseball. It can be taught, some will still not be able

to throw it well while others will excel and hit 100+mph on the radar gun. Some will learn to throw a curveball well and some won’t and they will get eaten alive by a good hitter. Because some can only learn the basic does that mean it can’t be taught?

 

Using your examples, there are people that can do them when they are taught. So even though others can’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be taught it means the person couldn’t learn it.

The “It can’t be taught” camp don’t understand what you said.

 

Im 56 and 40 pounds over weight.  Can I be taught to dunk?  Heck no.  Can I be taught to jump higher?  Of course.

 

Can I teach a guy who is old and out of shape like me to swing 120 mph and get their hips open like DJ? Not in a million years.  
 

Can I teach them to sequence better, get them 10-15* more hip rotation at impact and increase their club head speed 5-10%?

 

I do it all day every day and it’s done by helping them understand what actual movements better and elite golfers make from actual objective measurement.  Not by adhering to antiquated cliches that have been around for 50 years that continue to be purveyed by self proclaimed experts behind a message board screen name. 
 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

self proclaimed experts behind a message board screen name. 

 

C'mon, we all know your real name isn't "Monte Scheinblum." That's like a character my avatar invented or something.

[cav5]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:15 PM, Ajgaguy83 said:

Scary things is that does seem to be what he’s indicating.

 

Where to begin…… there’s so many things that are incorrect in his last response quoting me.

 

No point trying to address them….. but why not?

 

A note isn’t a note. Any real pianist will tell you that’s the same as saying you’re wedge game is the same as Phil’s, Seve’s, whoever you prefer, because well a chip is a chip, a lob is a lob, and a pitch and is pitch. Silly analogy isn’t it, but a short game IS a short game per your analogy. 
 

Correct, just like you don’t master piano or math by being able to read treble and bass clefs, or understand the math associated with theoretical physics because well, “that plus that” equals, let’s say 4. The irony is, no one claims to have mastery by having greater understanding. All that does is make the path easier.

 

I’m guessing you had piano lessons and a teacher?

 

There’s an old saying, all non-conformists conform to non-conformity.

 

Lastly, since golf can’t be taught because it’s not a note or equation, why do you continually try to teach it and spend so much time espousing perceived teaching information?

 

You say, 

 

 

but honestly, like for real, do you not see the irony given everything I just mentioned (not to mention that of others).

 

 

It’s more like if you do a math problem can you show your work. Can teach the concept but the actual motion no. That’s why it’s all so difficult. Scheffler is perfect example. Throws into transition and literally cuts his legs off to kill hand speed. Just can’t actually teach it. 

[GolfTurkey]

15 minutes ago, cav5 said:

It’s more like if you do a math problem can you show your work. Can teach the concept but the actual motion no. That’s why it’s all so difficult. Scheffler is perfect example. Throws into transition and literally cuts his legs off to kill hand speed. Just can’t actually teach it. 

 

I'm fairly confident Scottie doesn't go full Boxing Helena when he sends it.

[cav5]

6 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm fairly confident Scottie doesn't go full Boxing Helena when he sends it.

We won’t know so we can’t say

[GoGoErky]

45 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm fairly confident Scottie doesn't go full Boxing Helena when he sends it.

Scottie has old school footwork. Definitely not going boxing Helena.

 

he does a pretty good job of using the ground and swinging the club

[Bogeyman_MD]

On 3/11/2024 at 1:06 PM, McDuffer925 said:

I feel like a golf swing is just completely counter to common sense. Lessons with a reputable coach should be your number one concern. Its very hard for some if not most people (including myself) to learn by just watching a video and beating balls. Once you DO get it though it becomes more intuitive. Something that helped it click with me working on my own is thinking of how you swing a baseball bat back and forth as if you were hitting a ball. Pay attention to how your feet move or perceive the pressure shift as it happens. Then act as if you are pitching a baseball toward a target and how your pressure moves forward toward the target and chest/arm follows. Then feel it in a more similar golf position like skipping a stone across a pond. The way you HAVE to move your pressure  toward your intended target in all those cases feels identical to me now in my golf swing. Obviously other things in the grip, takeaway, backswing come into play but specifically for the pressure shift thats how I feel it, right or wrong. I think a lot of us just lose it in the application once you put a golf club in our hand haha. The best you can do on here is post a swing video and hope the feedback you get from guys like monte can straighten you out some. 

I really like a quote from one of the AMG guys, “The best players aren’t better at making complicated moves in the swing, the best players are good at simplifying the swing and not making unnecessary moves”. That’s paraphrased from memory but you get the idea.

[KMeloney]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:32 PM, cav5 said:

We won’t know so we can’t say

 

We do know, 'cause he still has legs.

[cav5]

On 3/15/2024 at 12:35 PM, Mike412 said:

I really like a quote from one of the AMG guys, “The best players aren’t better at making complicated moves in the swing, the best players are good at simplifying the swing and not making unnecessary moves”. That’s paraphrased from memory but you get the idea.

The AMG guys also babble like this. Hogan did not have a lot of shaft lean. Probably the worst example. The better he got the less he had. This is an immediate “ignore” everything else they say post lol. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4i9nZ-oIZB/?igsh=MWxjdzN6d3ByYzZz

[betarhoalphadelta]

So... How much is too much? Got before and after photos below...

 

FYI to take it back to OP, for me the entire recentering idea HAS to be a conscious move. I've spent the last 30+ years swaying and then getting stuck on my trail side. It's only now that I'm really trying to attack it. 

 

For me the "feel" isn't trying to push OFF the trail foot to get pressure left... It's trying to push INTO the trail foot early to not let myself sway off to the right. I know subconsciously that to start the backswing it'll require my left foot pushing, but I'm trying to make that as non-deliberate as possible and the right foot pressuring as the brace to stop the sway. With the right hip hopefully moving back and around towards the target. 

 

Below is the first range session that I had FO video. I think I definitely am not stuck on the trail foot... But have I overdone it? I see images of pros at the top and if I draw a vertical line from the outside of their lead ankle, their left hip is behind the line, whereas mine is on the line. The only one I've seen so far on the line is Rahm, and I in some ways resemble his body type as a bigger guy, but I wouldn't say anything else about our swings are similar lol...

 

Before: 

 

 

After:

 

[GungHoGolf]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

So... How much is too much? Got before and after photos below...

 

FYI to take it back to OP, for me the entire recentering idea HAS to be a conscious move. I've spent the last 30+ years swaying and then getting stuck on my trail side. It's only now that I'm really trying to attack it. 

 

For me the "feel" isn't trying to push OFF the trail foot to get pressure left... It's trying to push INTO the trail foot early to not let myself sway off to the right. I know subconsciously that to start the backswing it'll require my left foot pushing, but I'm trying to make that as non-deliberate as possible and the right foot pressuring as the brace to stop the sway. With the right hip hopefully moving back and around towards the target. 

 

Below is the first range session that I had FO video. I think I definitely am not stuck on the trail foot... But have I overdone it? I see images of pros at the top and if I draw a vertical line from the outside of their lead ankle, their left hip is behind the line, whereas mine is on the line. The only one I've seen so far on the line is Rahm, and I in some ways resemble his body type as a bigger guy, but I wouldn't say anything else about our swings are similar lol...

 

Before: 

 

 

After:

 

The After looks far more functional to me, as long as you don’t go further forward on the downswing.

 

-rhoomikronnu

 

[CSagan]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

The After looks far more functional to me, as long as you don’t go further forward on the downswing.

 

-rhoomikronnu

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnr0SM5oqpq/

 

Scotty gets a little forward. I’ve tried that lol…he just glides and pures it. Must be nice! 

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, CSagan said:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnr0SM5oqpq/

 

Scotty gets a little forward. I’ve tried that lol…he just glides and pures it. Must be nice! 

Wow, you weren’t kidding. That’s crazy forward.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

Wow, you weren’t kidding. That’s crazy forward.

That’s why his rear foot slides so much.  Every good player puts that force on the right foot, but it’s so unweighted, it flies back. 

[GungHoGolf]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s why his rear foot slides so much.  Every good player puts that force on the right foot, but it’s so unweighted, it flies back. 

If he came to you as a 4 cap with inconsistent ball striking, would you try to tone down that 10-12” forward slide? Or is that a viable/desirable pattern that could help a lot of ams?

 

Asked another way: do you see more problems from too little forward slide, or not enough?

 

This is fascinating to me, because we’re looking at the world’s current best ball striker, and he seems to be an outlier on the hip slide spectrum.

 

[PedronNiall]

Vertical drop, horizontal pull. Looks to me like he was sitting on a bench just down the range from Larry. 

Edited March 22, 2024 by PedronNiall