Scottsdale (best of the best)

[Fedor Emelianenko]

Heading to Scottsdale for the first time to spend spring break at a resort in Scottsdale.   I have 3 days to play, but cannot play 36 holes in one day.   

 

So far I booked TPC Stadium, Quintero and Grayhawk Raptor

 

Just noticed that Quintero is very far from where we are staying and We-ko-pa (both courses) do not have any tee times available on the days I'm staying.

 

I was thinking of dropping Quintero and play Troon Pinnacle, but I am hesitant on playing TPC Stadium as it looks mundane, especially without the stands.

 

Please suggest the best of the best courses that doesn't include We-ko-pa, but are must plays.  I am not looking for value courses, just the best of the best.  I don't know if I'll ever be in Scottsdale again and may only have one opportunity to play here.

 

 

 

 

[tcbringhurst]

If this is your only time here, Quintero will be memorable.

 

Are you with a group? Might be able to catch a cancellation at We Ko Pa if you check frequently, especially if you're a single. I'd play that instead of Stadium.

 

TPC Champions gets more praise around here than the Stadium course. 

[st1800e]

I’d take Troon north pinnacle over Quintero.  Played them all many times.  

[AZBRONCFAN]

Quintero isn't worth the drive in my opinion. Not a big fan of the place. They get the reviews based off of a few elevated par 3s. Other than that it is like any 🏜 course. Dropping the green fees doesn't seem like an issue for you so yeah I'd trade Quintero for Troon. 

[AZ_JHWK]

I'll jump in and confuse you even more. I make the trip to Quintero once every summer when the price is right. I love it out there. It is a bit of a hike to get there, but it's worth it in my opinion.  Troon is a fantastic facility and is not to be missed.  Quintero has more elevation to work with. Both are true desert courses and are very penal if you are hitting it a little crooked. 

 

Troon, Quintero, Grayhawk, We Ko Pa and Southern Dunes are at the top of most people's list.  

 

Whenever I go to Quintero I seem to take this same money shot...Enjoy!!!

[toypor]

18 minutes ago, AZ_JHWK said:

I'll jump in and confuse you even more. I make the trip to Quintero once every summer when the price is right. I love it out there. It is a bit of a hike to get there, but it's worth it in my opinion.  Troon is a fantastic facility and is not to be missed.  Quintero has more elevation to work with. Both are true desert courses and are very penal if you are hitting it a little crooked. 

 

Troon, Quintero, Grayhawk, We Ko Pa and Southern Dunes are at the top of most people's list.  

 

Whenever I go to Quintero I seem to take this same money shot...Enjoy!!!

I agree. I would personally drop TPC and add Troon.  If We Ko Pa opens up, drop Grayhawk. Troon, Quintero, and We Ko Pa would give you the most wow factor for desert golf in the Scottsdale area. Not sure where you’re coming from, but if you are already traveling in and want the best of the best for a one time trip, not sure that an hour drive should be a big issue? 

 

By no means do I think Quintero is a great design and something I’d want to play regularly, but it is unique and beautiful. There are some real good holes as well as some head scratchers. I don’t think the lesser/bad holes detract from the overall visitor experience, except for hardcore architecture geeks. 
 

 

[Fedor Emelianenko]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:54 PM, toypor said:

I agree. I would personally drop TPC and add Troon.  If We Ko Pa opens up, drop Grayhawk. Troon, Quintero, and We Ko Pa would give you the most wow factor for desert golf in the Scottsdale area. Not sure where you’re coming from, but if you are already traveling in and want the best of the best for a one time trip, not sure that an hour drive should be a big issue? 

 

By no means do I think Quintero is a great design and something I’d want to play regularly, but it is unique and beautiful. There are some real good holes as well as some head scratchers. I don’t think the lesser/bad holes detract from the overall visitor experience, except for hardcore architecture geeks. 
 

 

So I'll be playing as a single this trip and I'm visiting to stay at a resort for my kids spring break.   I need to get back to the resort as soon as possible so I'll be first group out.   Quintero, being a hour away will delay too much time, especially if I'm paired up.
 

I'm visiting from Southern California and I've played my share of palm springs/desert courses.   Looking at the pictures for each course, nothing really wows me, but they do look fun to play.

 

I've decided to drop  Quintero for Troon Pinnacle, but I'm on the fence about dropping TPC for Troon Monument.   Stay at TPC or do both Troon's?

 

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by Fedor Emelianenko

[Fedor Emelianenko]

I take it back,  due to not reading the fine print, I'm stuck at playing Quintero (non refundable).   Guess I will drop TPC for Pinnacle.

 

If someone wants to  buy my tee time for Quintero, please reach out

[sharkiesj]

Maybe something to consider.  Troon North Pinnacle was a massive letdown for me.I played it last August and it was the first time I’ve played there since the new routing.  They took the worst 9’s from both the courses and called it the new Pinnacle Course.  The Monument Course is the one you HAVE to play.  If you’re gonna play TN, you gotta play the Monument Course.  I would rather you play TPC Stadium Course than the Pinnacle.  Just because every single time you watch the Waste Management from now on, you’ll remember where you hit it on all the holes you see on TV. Good times.  JMO, but going to TN and playing the Pinnacle is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken. It’s good, but it’s not steak.  All the pics you see of TN in every magazine and such come from the Monument.  Or, play 36 at TN and forget TPC.  

Edited March 10, 2024 by sharkiesj

[Scratch2Plus]

Stadium course was a definite bore without the stands. Played it once so I can scratch that off of the list.

Loved Quintero and both WeKoPa courses.

Heading back to Scottsdale 1st week in May with a buddy for 9 rounds of golf. Cannot wait!

 

Edited March 10, 2024 by Scratch2Plus

[Fedor Emelianenko]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, sharkiesj said:

Maybe something to consider.  Troon North Pinnacle was a massive letdown for me.I played it last August and it was the first time I’ve played there since the new routing.  They took the worst 9’s from both the courses and called it the new Pinnacle Course.  The Monument Course is the one you HAVE to play.  If you’re gonna play TN, you gotta play the Monument Course.  I would rather you play TPC Stadium Course than the Pinnacle.  Just because every single time you watch the Waste Management from now on, you’ll remember where you hit it on all the holes you see on TV. Good times.  JMO, but going to TN and playing the Pinnacle is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken. It’s good, but it’s not steak.  All the pics you see of TN in every magazine and such come from the Monument.  Or, play 36 at TN and forget TPC.  

This is a very interesting review.   Spoke with the pro shop and they said most if not all of the workers prefer to play the pinnacle over the monument.  They stated that the monument is tended more towards higher handicaps due to larger fairways, but the pinnacle is more of a players course.   

[puttnforthe8]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, sharkiesj said:

Maybe something to consider.  Troon North Pinnacle was a massive letdown for me.I played it last August and it was the first time I’ve played there since the new routing.  They took the worst 9’s from both the courses and called it the new Pinnacle Course.  The Monument Course is the one you HAVE to play.  If you’re gonna play TN, you gotta play the Monument Course.  I would rather you play TPC Stadium Course than the Pinnacle.  Just because every single time you watch the Waste Management from now on, you’ll remember where you hit it on all the holes you see on TV. Good times.  JMO, but going to TN and playing the Pinnacle is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken. It’s good, but it’s not steak.  All the pics you see of TN in every magazine and such come from the Monument.  Or, play 36 at TN and forget TPC.  

Well this is absolutely incorrect in pretty much every respect.  They took the best 9s and created Pinnacle.

[vallygolf]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, sharkiesj said:

Maybe something to consider.  Troon North Pinnacle was a massive letdown for me.I played it last August and it was the first time I’ve played there since the new routing.  They took the worst 9’s from both the courses and called it the new Pinnacle Course.  The Monument Course is the one you HAVE to play.  If you’re gonna play TN, you gotta play the Monument Course.  I would rather you play TPC Stadium Course than the Pinnacle.  Just because every single time you watch the Waste Management from now on, you’ll remember where you hit it on all the holes you see on TV. Good times.  JMO, but going to TN and playing the Pinnacle is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken. It’s good, but it’s not steak.  All the pics you see of TN in every magazine and such come from the Monument.  Or, play 36 at TN and forget TPC.  

Tell me you are just confusing the names.  Out of all the takes on the changes, you are the first I have ever heard propping Monument over Pinnacle.

[Fedor Emelianenko]

1 hour ago, vallygolf said:

Tell me you are just confusing the names.  Out of all the takes on the changes, you are the first I have ever heard propping Monument over Pinnacle.

 

I was about to switch over the monument, but glad I didn't.

 

So far I have in order of play:

Troon North  Pinnacle

Quintero

Grayhawk Raptor

 

Should I drop Raptor for monument/tpc stadium?

 

[hackeraz]

4 hours ago, Fedor Emelianenko said:

 

I was about to switch over the monument, but glad I didn't.

 

So far I have in order of play:

Troon North  Pinnacle

Quintero

Grayhawk Raptor

 

Should I drop Raptor for monument/tpc stadium?

 

I wouldn't. 

[soregongolfer]

Raptor was a bit of a letdown for me.  I am told the rerouting on the last three holes took the character out of the course.  It's still a great course though.  I love both Troon North courses, but Pinnacle was special.  I wouldn't hesitate to play it again.  

 

My buddies played both Quintero and TPC Stadium a few weeks before the last WM.  They paid over $300 for Quintero and over $500 for Stadium.  All four said they'd play Stadium again, but not Quintero.  I was surprised.  Playing #16 with the stands blew them away.  

[Fedor Emelianenko]

11 hours ago, soregongolfer said:

Raptor was a bit of a letdown for me.  I am told the rerouting on the last three holes took the character out of the course.  It's still a great course though.  I love both Troon North courses, but Pinnacle was special.  I wouldn't hesitate to play it again.  

 

My buddies played both Quintero and TPC Stadium a few weeks before the last WM.  They paid over $300 for Quintero and over $500 for Stadium.  All four said they'd play Stadium again, but not Quintero.  I was surprised.  Playing #16 with the stands blew them away.  

If the grandstands were up during my stay, I'd probably drop grayhawk for TPC, but they just confirmed that most likely they will be gone.  

[MattM97]

If Pinnacle is ugly/bad then I've played some awful, awful courses in my time before playing that. 

 

As for TPC Stadium as an outsider to me it looks boring without the stands and what not, I played Champion it was cheaper and it was pretty fun. But like others said lots of options and the list you have isn't awful at all. 

[sharkiesj]

Boy, I sure took a hit with my Monument take lol.  Hahaha!! Again, my take wasn’t to say that Pinnacle is bad.  It’s not.  It’s def more challenging vs the Monument for sure.  I’ve played TN about 9-10 times both sides before, during, and now after all the rerouting has been done.  
 

It’s JMO that the Pinnacle in its current routing is worse than its original routing.  I loved the original routing best. For me, the current routing leaves at least 2 of the par 3’s being almost identical holes.  That’s not the only reason. All the memorable holes(for me) reside on the Monument.  
 

It’s like Pebble vs Spy.  Spy is a way tougher challenge.  But to me Spy is the first 5 holes, that’s it.  That’s what you’re paying for. The rest of the course, to me, is incredibly mundane.  You’re basically playing Poppy Hills for 5X the price. (NCGA rates). Pebble is Pebble, easier, more “enjoyable” and cush.  I’m sure he’ll have fun on the Pinnacle.  He has a heck of a lineup there with all the golf planned. I was giving my 2cents…

Edited March 19, 2024 by sharkiesj

[Fedor Emelianenko]

For anyone who's wondering, here was my ranking for these 3 courses.  Keep in mind that I played as a single and was the first tee time out in the morning.

 

#1 Troon  North Pinnacle - Overall this course gets the top ranking.  Conditions of the fairways and rough were immaculate.  The greens here and at Quintero had ball marks everywhere!   For the most part, the greens rolled true, but if it hit one of the hundreds of balls marks, your ball would go offline.   The layout of the course was my favorite of all 3.

 

Service was an issue because they called me 2 days prior to my tee time and said I wouldn't be able to play as a single in the morning (first tee time out).  I told them this was unacceptable and said they would try to find players to join me.  At this point, I was looking for other courses to play, but the tee times were all booked everywhere for the morning.  They called back and said they found a 2 some to join me, but the fact that they called me to say I couldn't play left a bad taste in my mouth.  Why offer the tee time if you can't honor it?  I always clean my clubs and have them clean after the round.  The cart boy was annoyed that I didn't want my clubs cleaned and rolled his eyes and walked away.  Perhaps if you offered to take my clubs to my car I would have tipped you kid.    

 

#2 Grayhawk Raptor - The fairways and rough were immaculate here as well and the greens didn't have many balls marks as the other 2 courses, but the greens were slow compared to the other 2 courses.   The layout of the course was ok and the service was ok.   I prefer the layout of Quintero over this course, but overall I would pick this course over Quintero.   This course had a different feeling than Quintero and Pinnacle as those 2 were desert golf to a T.  This course had more of a resort course type feel.

 

#3 Quintero - Played as a single and got paired up with a 3some.  The fairways and rough were immaculate here as well, but by far had the most ball marks on the greens that I've seen anywhere.   It was unbelievable how many ball marks there were.   The greens ran true if your ball didn't cross any, but the chances that it won't roll over a ball mark is slim to none.  Quintero and Troon have very firm greens.  This would require your to play the bounce and land your ball 5-10 yards short of your distance, even with wedges.   The layout of this course is up there, but course knowledge is needed.   For a first timer, it's hard to score well here without knowing where/how to golf your ball.

 

Overall, the courses were top notch with great conditions.  Just wished the greens at Quintero and Pinnacle didn't have so many ball marks.  

 

I got paired up at Pinnacle and left the group to play as a single the back 9.  Didn't run into any maintenance.  3:15 hr round

Played as single at Grayhawk and had no maintenance   2:15 hr round

Played as a 4some at Quintero.   I asked the front desk and starter if I could play as a single and let the 3some enjoy their round.  Was told I couldn't due to the course being busy and wanted us to play fast as a foursome. I told them it would speed up the course if I played as a single and then the 3some would follow.  They didn't agree.  The starter was keen on making sure we play fast and we were first out.   We held up the group behind us as they hit into us on a couple occasions.   This round took 4:30 min.   

 

 

 

 

[Bonneville85308]

Thanks for following up with your comments after playing the courses @Fedor Emelianenko, wish more people would do that after they come here for advice.

[SilverBullets]

3 hours ago, Fedor Emelianenko said:

For anyone who's wondering, here was my ranking for these 3 courses.  Keep in mind that I played as a single and was the first tee time out in the morning.

 

#1 Troon  North Pinnacle - Overall this course gets the top ranking.  Conditions of the fairways and rough were immaculate.  The greens here and at Quintero had ball marks everywhere!   For the most part, the greens rolled true, but if it hit one of the hundreds of balls marks, your ball would go offline.   The layout of the course was my favorite of all 3.

 

Service was an issue because they called me 2 days prior to my tee time and said I wouldn't be able to play as a single in the morning (first tee time out).  I told them this was unacceptable and said they would try to find players to join me.  At this point, I was looking for other courses to play, but the tee times were all booked everywhere for the morning.  They called back and said they found a 2 some to join me, but the fact that they called me to say I couldn't play left a bad taste in my mouth.  Why offer the tee time if you can't honor it?  I always clean my clubs and have them clean after the round.  The cart boy was annoyed that I didn't want my clubs cleaned and rolled his eyes and walked away.  Perhaps if you offered to take my clubs to my car I would have tipped you kid.    

 

#2 Grayhawk Raptor - The fairways and rough were immaculate here as well and the greens didn't have many balls marks as the other 2 courses, but the greens were slow compared to the other 2 courses.   The layout of the course was ok and the service was ok.   I prefer the layout of Quintero over this course, but overall I would pick this course over Quintero.   This course had a different feeling than Quintero and Pinnacle as those 2 were desert golf to a T.  This course had more of a resort course type feel.

 

#3 Quintero - Played as a single and got paired up with a 3some.  The fairways and rough were immaculate here as well, but by far had the most ball marks on the greens that I've seen anywhere.   It was unbelievable how many ball marks there were.   The greens ran true if your ball didn't cross any, but the chances that it won't roll over a ball mark is slim to none.  Quintero and Troon have very firm greens.  This would require your to play the bounce and land your ball 5-10 yards short of your distance, even with wedges.   The layout of this course is up there, but course knowledge is needed.   For a first timer, it's hard to score well here without knowing where/how to golf your ball.

 

Overall, the courses were top notch with great conditions.  Just wished the greens at Quintero and Pinnacle didn't have so many ball marks.  

 

I got paired up at Pinnacle and left the group to play as a single the back 9.  Didn't run into any maintenance.  3:15 hr round

Played as single at Grayhawk and had no maintenance   2:15 hr round

Played as a 4some at Quintero.   I asked the front desk and starter if I could play as a single and let the 3some enjoy their round.  Was told I couldn't due to the course being busy and wanted us to play fast as a foursome. I told them it would speed up the course if I played as a single and then the 3some would follow.  They didn't agree.  The starter was keen on making sure we play fast and we were first out.   We held up the group behind us as they hit into us on a couple occasions.   This round took 4:30 min.   

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you got the full Quintero experience, complete with their staff being unreasonable and off-putting lol.  The customer is never right at Quintero!

 

I completely agree with your assessments/rankings.  It's funny as a resident how my perspectives start to change.  I think I've played these 3 courses probably 15-20 times each.  The more I play Raptor, the better I think it is.  Last time I played there, I walked away firmly believing it's probably the best "championship" layout of any public course in the valley.  It doesn't get as high regard from golf trip visitors because it's not as pretty and not as much desert golf... but it's just a really good test of golf.  

 

The more I play Quintero, the less I like it.  It doesn't get any better with more knowledge... in fact it may get worse.  My problem with Quintero is that they force golfers into playing basically 1 shot into each hole.  If you can't hit that shot, you're done.  The greens seem to all be elevated, protected with deep bunkering and big tiers throughout the greens... but they also always play pretty firm and crispy.  It's just... blah.  The entire layout feels uninspired to me.  However, it is a beautiful golf course and it certainly catches the eye of first time players.  

[AzSuperHack76]

5 minutes ago, SilverBullets said:

 

Sounds like you got the full Quintero experience, complete with their staff being unreasonable and off-putting lol.  The customer is never right at Quintero!

 

I completely agree with your assessments/rankings.  It's funny as a resident how my perspectives start to change.  I think I've played these 3 courses probably 15-20 times each.  The more I play Raptor, the better I think it is.  Last time I played there, I walked away firmly believing it's probably the best "championship" layout of any public course in the valley.  It doesn't get as high regard from golf trip visitors because it's not as pretty and not as much desert golf... but it's just a really good test of golf.  

 

The more I play Quintero, the less I like it.  It doesn't get any better with more knowledge... in fact it may get worse.  My problem with Quintero is that they force golfers into playing basically 1 shot into each hole.  If you can't hit that shot, you're done.  The greens seem to all be elevated, protected with deep bunkering and big tiers throughout the greens... but they also always play pretty firm and crispy.  It's just... blah.  The entire layout feels uninspired to me.  However, it is a beautiful golf course and it certainly catches the eye of first time players.  

Agree on Quinterro, but I'll pile on, it's a terrible layout, below average at best. Straight ahead par 4's, down hill par 3's, nothing else, very poor use of the land. Top it off #8 is one of the worst par 5's in the state. But.... It's breathtaking, I always reccomend it to out of towners for it's vistas alone. I play it once every year or two and that's about it. 

[SilverBullets]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:01 PM, AzSuperHack76 said:

Agree on Quinterro, but I'll pile on, it's a terrible layout, below average at best. Straight ahead par 4's, down hill par 3's, nothing else, very poor use of the land. Top it off #8 is one of the worst par 5's in the state. But.... It's breathtaking, I always reccomend it to out of towners for it's vistas alone. I play it once every year or two and that's about it. 

#2 at WeKoPa Cholla and #8 at Quintero are 2 of the worst designed par 5s I have ever played. 

[AzSuperHack76]

33 minutes ago, SilverBullets said:

#2 at WeKoPa Cholla and #8 at Quintero are 2 of the worst designed par 5s I have ever played. 

Agree, I’ll add Stoneridge #18 as well. 

[Golf Pig]

I agree that from a design perspective #8 at Quintero is terrible. However, the view looking up the 2nd fairway toward the green is spectacular.

[SilverBullets]

18 hours ago, Golf Pig said:

I agree that from a design perspective #8 at Quintero is terrible. However, the view looking up the 2nd fairway toward the green is spectacular.

The views at Quintero are the only real selling point and positive about the place.  No one is going to question the views.  Its just everything else which is terrible

[Schley]

Glad it worked out for you, although I know superintendents really want a full foursome off first tee time of the day to allow for their maintenance. Surprised you didn't hit any at Grayhawk if you played in 2:15 first time out.

[Scratch2Plus]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:06 PM, SilverBullets said:

The views at Quintero are the only real selling point and positive about the place.  No one is going to question the views.  Its just everything else which is terrible

 

The cart girl views were pretty damn good, if anyone cares. Best I've seen in a while... 😁

Edited May 18, 2024 by Scratch2Plus

[cbbaron]

5 hours ago, Scratch2Plus said:

 

The cart girl views were pretty damn good, if anyone cares. Best I've seen in a while... 😁

Did you play Grayhawk? They have and always have had best looking cart girls