3M epoxy DP810, 420 etc

[Mark Rimell]

All

hope you all had a great weekend ..... just a question about 3M products. Ive used DP810 in the past and i have always had a great experience..... i have the opportunity to buy DP410 ad a good price, but have never heard of this product being mentioned in club making circles...... anyone used it??... knows if it would work etc??... i really have no idea what I'm looking for with the data sheets

many thanks in advance 

[Valtiel]

DP420 is just as much a standard in club building, and I believe DP410 is similar albeit with a faster work time similar to DP810. The DP4xx epoxies overall are stronger and more heat resistant than DP810 which breaks down quickly. Either way they're all appropriate epoxies and personally I would use DP420 over DP810 for the extra strength. 

[Streuner]

DP420 ist very much the standard product in the 2k Epoxy category, all the other stuff ist more specialized in certain categories like colour, working time and hardening, temperature restistance ect

 

I do not see the DP810 product in club head assembly... it will not be hard enough, it stays a bit elastic, very good for parts that are moving slightly.

Edited March 4, 2024 by Streuner

[Guest RobS]

DP410 is a faster cure version of DP420.  420 is a great product for golf clubs.  410 will perform similarly but with a shorter work and cure time.  410 isn't commonly used or marketed in the US market as it's classified as environmentally hazardous on it's MSDS.  It will definitely work but if you're buying in the US, I'd check the production date  to make sure it hasn't exceeded the recommended shelf life (12mo) as it's not a commonly stocked product in the US. I'd personally stick with 810 (or 420).

[Nessism]

4 hours ago, Streuner said:

I do not see the DP810 product in club head assembly... it will not be hard enough, it stays a bit elastic, very good for parts that are moving slightly.

 

Ping uses acrylic adhesive, like the DP810.  Personally, I've been using DP8410NS acrylic adhesive.  It resists heat a little better than the 810, and is typically cheaper.  I also use DP460, since I can get this from where I work.  It's same as 420, but slower drying.

[Mark Rimell]

is there an easy reference to these epoxy.... and is it shear strength to look for??.... can you use DP490???.... is the last part of the number the curing time?

[TonyDAnnunzio]

4 hours ago, Mark Rimell said:

is there an easy reference to these epoxy.... and is it shear strength to look for??.... can you use DP490???.... is the last part of the number the curing time?

 

According to McMaster-Carr:

Epoxy             Begins to harden  Full strength           shear             temp     cost - 1.69oz

DP420                20 min                 24hrs                    2500               350*          $49.28

DP810                 10 min                 24hrs                    3400               180*           $39.99

DP8410NS          10 min                 24hrs                    3900               280*           $18.22 (1.52oz)

DP460                60 min                 24hrs                    2500               350*           $46.00

 

I couldn't find anything on DP490.

 

I am not by any means an expert on the subject, but I would assume shear strength is of utmost importance followed by the temperature at which the epoxy starts to break down.  With modern irons having elastomer inserts and foam fillings one has to be concerned with how much heat is going into the head.  The heads I am most familiar with such inserts are PING i210's and S55's.  Nessism advised PING uses an adhesive like the DP810.  I have noticed when removing factory shafts from those models it seemed to take very little heat for the adhesive to break down.

[Nessism]

4 hours ago, TonyDAnnunzio said:

 

According to McMaster-Carr:

Epoxy             Begins to harden  Full strength           shear             temp     cost - 1.69oz

DP420                20 min                 24hrs                    2500               350*          $49.28

DP810                 10 min                 24hrs                    3400               180*           $39.99

DP8410NS          10 min                 24hrs                    3900               280*           $18.22 (1.52oz)

DP460                60 min                 24hrs                    2500               350*           $46.00

 

I couldn't find anything on DP490.

 

I am not by any means an expert on the subject, but I would assume shear strength is of utmost importance followed by the temperature at which the epoxy starts to break down.  With modern irons having elastomer inserts and foam fillings one has to be concerned with how much heat is going into the head.  The heads I am most familiar with such inserts are PING i210's and S55's.  Nessism advised PING uses an adhesive like the DP810.  I have noticed when removing factory shafts from those models it seemed to take very little heat for the adhesive to break down.

 

McMaster-Carr's info is wrong.  Most of those adhesives are stronger than stated.  The temps are wrong too.  I wonder where they are getting their info?  Dismissing that, all of those adhesives are good for golf clubs.  Use with confidence.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2024 by Nessism

[RCGA]

Anywhere to buy this stuff in Canada from a in-person box store?

[Socrates]

20 minutes ago, RCGA said:

Anywhere to buy this stuff in Canada from a in-person box store?

Not likely.  IF you are lucky, you might have a 3M outlet for commercial sales.  They usually have no problem selling over the counter.   You may have to set up an account, but that's not a big deal.  The only problem is that you might have to buy more than you think and they aren't shy about their prices.

[Nessism]

Most industrial supply houses sell 3M adhesives.  It will be stupid expensive, though.  Sorry, I'm not sure what to suggest, other than searching Amazon.

[Dave22]

In Canada, I purchased some from National Hardware online when I need it.  Easy to order as guest. Around $50 plus delivery but better than a $500 head flying into the bushes. 

[AmateurAmateur]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:06 PM, RCGA said:

Anywhere to buy this stuff in Canada from a in-person box store?

Go to a garage or mechanic shop they’d likely have a 3M account and might be willing to place a one off order for you. 

[Socrates]

11 minutes ago, AmateurAmateur said:

Go to a garage or mechanic shop they’d likely have a 3M account and might be willing to place a one off order for you. 

That would be pretty sketchy, IMO.  I have a real good relationship with one local shop and I would never consider doing that.

[Nessism]

DP8410NS is back at Amazon for $22.77 shipped prime (in my area, anyway)

 

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld-Acrylic-Adhesive-DP8410NS/dp/B00IOQ71JA

[dakotasledder]

what dispenser gun are you using for 3m?

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I've been trying the golfworks maximum strength which was designed as a cheaper alternative to 3M. It's great for irons and at a quoted 4,500 shear strength it's unlikely to fail but the quoted break down point of 350 degrees feels a bit lower than reality, it takes a lot of heat and I'd be nervous with graphite pulls.

[Socrates]

2 hours ago, Pleasedwith3putts said:

I've been trying the golfworks maximum strength which was designed as a cheaper alternative to 3M. It's great for irons and at a quoted 4,500 shear strength it's unlikely to fail but the quoted break down point of 350 degrees feels a bit lower than reality, it takes a lot of heat and I'd be nervous with graphite pulls.

Haven't had an issue and I've using it for over a decade.

[dlow206]

For my own clubs, I always use DP810NS. I want the epoxy to break down as fast as possible with as little heat as possible on my own clubs. I never store my clubs for any extended period of time in a hot trunk, etc.

 

For customers' clubs, I use DP420NS. Don't know how they will treat their clubs. 

[CTG77]

On 7/24/2024 at 9:03 PM, Nessism said:

DP8410NS is back at Amazon for $22.77 shipped prime (in my area, anyway)

 

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld-Acrylic-Adhesive-DP8410NS/dp/B00IOQ71JA

Are you using a special dispenser gun or does the 1:1 / 1:2 ratio unit work with this tube setup?

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, CTG77 said:

Are you using a special dispenser gun or does the 1:1 / 1:2 ratio unit work with this tube setup?

 

You need 10:1 for DP8410NS.  There are threads where members here bought a cheap generic gun that worked fine, and was much cheaper than a 3M gun.

[absoludicrous]

7 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

You need 10:1 for DP8410NS.  There are threads where members here bought a cheap generic gun that worked fine, and was much cheaper than a 3M gun.

Here is one of them that I had handy. 

 

[Pleasedwith3putts]

On 7/29/2024 at 7:43 PM, Socrates said:

Haven't had an issue and I've using it for over a decade.

Interesting - literally took 5 times longer to break down for me than for instance whatever Titleist use for their builds

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, Pleasedwith3putts said:

Interesting - literally took 5 times longer to break down for me than for instance whatever Titleist use for their builds

Rarely more than 10 seconds with a torch.

[kwcsports]

On 7/24/2024 at 11:03 PM, Nessism said:

DP8410NS is back at Amazon for $22.77 shipped prime (in my area, anyway)

 

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld-Acrylic-Adhesive-DP8410NS/dp/B00IOQ71JA

I bought and used this to repair a carbon crown in a Stealth 3 wood. Worked perfectly, and has held up for 40 rounds, looks like I just repaired it. 

[kwcsports]

37 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Rarely more than 10 seconds with a torch.

Same with me, never takes more than seconds.

[CTG77]

14 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

You need 10:1 for DP8410NS.  There are threads where members here bought a cheap generic gun that worked fine, and was much cheaper than a 3M gun.

Thanks.  I found one on Amazon and it arrived this morning...before the epoxy even...

I've been a loyal DP810NS user for a while, but I've had 2 failures recently, both from the same tube purchased off Amazon and directly FROM Amazon (not a 3rd party seller) that had almost a year left before its expiration date.  One of the failures led to a driving iron head being lost into a creek, so I'm a little sensitive to that right now given I need to work on 1 more of my son's clubs and his driver swing speed is in the 120 mph range right now....

[Nessism]

32 minutes ago, CTG77 said:

I've been a loyal DP810NS user for a while, but I've had 2 failures recently, both from the same tube purchased off Amazon and directly FROM Amazon (not a 3rd party seller) that had almost a year left before its expiration date.  

 

Sorry for the troubles.  

 

I'm not sure what could have happened, but I do know that since this material is 10:1, it's critical to make sure you are getting smooth flow out of the small blue catalyst port.  Squeeze out a small amount of material, while watching the material come out, and discard until you get full flow out of both sides of the cartridge.  Once you confirm good flow, squeeze out on your mixing board and stir well.  

[ignitewvu]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:01 PM, Nessism said:

 

McMaster-Carr's info is wrong.  Most of those adhesives are stronger than stated.  The temps are wrong too.  I wonder where they are getting their info?  Dismissing that, all of those adhesives are good for golf clubs.  Use with confidence.

 

 

Correct, Here is the strength directly from 3M's website.

 

420 is 4600psi

810 is 3600psi

[Nessism]

10 hours ago, ignitewvu said:

Correct, Here is the strength directly from 3M's website.

 

420 is 4600psi

810 is 3600psi

 

If someone really wants to know the shear strength for different 3M products, just google "3M DPxxxx datasheet".  

 

These adhesives vary in strength based on how the bond is prepped, and what materials are being bonded.  For example, there is a difference in strength with aluminum, cold rolled steel, and stainless steel.  Sometimes the difference is significant, so pay attention.  For example, DP420 is only 1800 psi with stainless steel.  Not ideal.