The Old Course - New Process for Single Golfers

[italianstallion]

3 hours ago, flognut said:

yes. already signed up for that and paired with 3 others. seems like we enter as a foursome which seems even far less likely to get picked.  i cant see there being any open foursomes at any time or any day ever. maybe they break us into twosomes? anyway, i thought this was pot luck anyway also. i totally had the mindset i would have to do the walkup que line to get on one day during my stay. with that out the window it seems slim to none now

 

I did the Ballot Buddy thing and attempted for three days without success. I had the same question for the owner of the site and he said being in a twosome has slightly better odds than a foursome for the exact reason you mention: if you're a foursome you're automatically out of the running for the twosome slots available.

 

Ultimately how you enter the ballot with your Ballot Buddies is up to you. Given that the odds are already low I would suggest going to your Ballot Buddies and proposing entering as two twosomes rather than one foursome (we went the route of entering as a foursome, again without success). You will have to resign yourself to the fact that the other twosome might get out and you might not, but at the end of the day that approach gives you a slightly better chance of success. 

[flognut]

21 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

 Very much. When are you going?

May 18-25. if i dont bag it

 

 

[sheppick.dan]

9 minutes ago, flognut said:

May 18-25. if i dont bag it

 

 

 

Im trying right now to see if I can change some of my times around so that I can be there to enter the single que.. What a PAIN!!!

[flognut]

21 hours ago, hammergolf said:

I feel so bad for everyone who has made plans and spent the money to plan a trip only to have the opportunity to play TOC taken away from them. I think this decision is actually going to backfire on them because people will not be as inclined to schedule a trip if it’s a coin toss on whether they get to play TOC. I’ve sent them an email expressing my thoughts and how unfair it is to make this change now with such short notice. I mean there are so many other solutions, but taking away one of the greatest traditions is not the answer. Hopefully they get enough negative feedback that they change their position like they did with the artificial turf by the Swilkin Bridge.

Huge bummer, i am truly crushed.  i guess i'll hope and pray

[lazyjk]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:46 PM, hammergolf said:

I think this decision is actually going to backfire on them because people will not be as inclined to schedule a trip if it’s a coin toss on whether they get to play TOC.

While I don't necessarily like the move to the online queue because of the loss of "if you want it bad enough you can pretty much guarantee a spot" standpoint, this statement above is very much hyperbole. 

 

If 1000 golfers a year (which honestly seems crazy high) suddenly decide they simply aren't going to come to St. Andrews at all because of this decision, that's barely a dent. 

 

I like to doom/gloom as much as the next person but there has been a ton of classic premature overreacting across the board on this change. 

[Chanceman]

Anything of value that is available online usually sells out. I can see this going the same way. TOC will be sold out each day ie no tee times will be available once the day starts. This will inhibit the atmosphere around the first tee where there has always been a bit of a buzz from people getting last minute spots.

[jvincent]

2 hours ago, Chanceman said:

This will inhibit the atmosphere around the first tee where there has always been a bit of a buzz from people getting last minute spots.

 

When we played TOC we had a tee time as a two-some from the advance ballot, i.e. the one that runs in Aug-Sept the year before.

 

When we checked in the starter asked us if we minded if another two some joined us from the queue. I was surprised that they wouldn't automatically fill spots, but we said of course.

 

When we were waiting in the snack hut before we teed off the starter came in and called for the twosome who were going to join us. The look of joy on their faces was awesome. They had been in the overnight queue since 2AM IIRC.

[hammergolf]

11 hours ago, lazyjk said:

While I don't necessarily like the move to the online queue because of the loss of "if you want it bad enough you can pretty much guarantee a spot" standpoint, this statement above is very much hyperbole. 

 

If 1000 golfers a year (which honestly seems crazy high) suddenly decide they simply aren't going to come to St. Andrews at all because of this decision, that's barely a dent. 

 

I like to doom/gloom as much as the next person but there has been a ton of classic premature overreacting across the board on this change. 

There are literally several people on this thread who scheduled trips to St. Andrews only based on the fact that they KNEW they were getting on TOC because they were willing to get in the que as early as needed to insure they got on. Now, these guys have spent a lot of money but now because of this change have no control of getting to play TOC. I can’t speak for others, but if I don’t win the advanced lottery I won’t plan another trip there. As great as Kingsbarns and other courses are, let’s face it, people go to St. Andrews to play TOC. Now it’s a crapshoot if someone gets on or not. For me, I’m not making that financial investment based on a crapshoot and think many others feel the same.

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, jvincent said:

 

When we played TOC we had a tee time as a two-some from the advance ballot, i.e. the one that runs in Aug-Sept the year before.

 

When we checked in the starter asked us if we minded if another two some joined us from the queue. I was surprised that they wouldn't automatically fill spots, but we said of course.

 

When we were waiting in the snack hut before we teed off the starter came in and called for the twosome who were going to join us. The look of joy on their faces was awesome. They had been in the overnight queue since 2AM IIRC.

Don’t remember who the wrx member was, but there was a twosome that refused to allow the two open spots to be filled…. I hope that both those golfers were stricken with an incurable bout of the shanks!

[jvincent]

2 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Don’t remember who the wrx member was, but there was a twosome that refused to allow the two open spots to be filled…. I hope that both those golfers were stricken with an incurable bout of the shanks!

 

a******* to be sure.

 

The guys we played with were from Thailand and were a blast to play with. 

[lazyjk]

9 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Now it’s a crapshoot if someone gets on or not.

Almost all of the visitors who play The Old do it through through a member, tour company, advanced ballot or 48 hour ballot. The singles queue is a last resort built for a few people a day and moving it to the new system isn't going to materially change the amount of people who make the trek even if you and some others on niche golf message boards full of hardcore golfers take a principled stand and refuse to go there. 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying I'm a fan of the new system (as a crazy who never got the chance to overnight there), but in the whole scheme of things this is a very minor change. 

 

It's just raw in the moment.

[hammergolf]

1 minute ago, lazyjk said:

Almost all of the visitors who play The Old do it through through a member, tour company, advanced ballot or 48 hour ballot. The singles queue is a last resort built for a few people a day and moving it to the new system isn't going to materially change the amount of people who make the trek even if you and some others on niche golf message boards full of hardcore golfers take a principled stand and refuse to go there. 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying I'm a fan of the new system (as a crazy who never got the chance to overnight there), but in the whole scheme of things this is a very minor change. 

 

It's just raw in the moment.

Ask @flognut and @sheppick.dan if it’s just raw in the moment….

[lazyjk]

Not arguing that this doesn't majorly suck for those who had trips planned around the old queue method - I would be quite mad. They could have done a much better job communicating this further in a advance instead of dropping it a week ahead of rollout. 

 

I just disagree that this in any way would backfire enough from a business perspective that they would suddenly decide to go back to the old way. Hell, the only reason the whole bridge thing got rolled back so quickly was the power of viral social media. 15 years ago it would probably have gone through without much of a peep.

 

If I'm wrong, great. That just means I can go do it the old way. 

 

 

[sheppick.dan]

I will now be scrambling to change times around to get the best chance for the ballot or singles ballot as possible. 
 

I had 2 days open and had scheduled my trip based on worst case of not getting on any ballots and needing to do overnight Que. this change has now moved me to only having 1 chance rather than 2 because of when we were scheduled to get in one night. 
 

I get why they did it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s crap though!!! 
 

even if we don’t play TOC it is still a trip of a lifetime but will always have a what if scenario and that sucks. Our plan was 10pm Sunday night. If we didn’t get on because we weren’t early enough the next day we were going to go earlier. This took away the “if you want it bad enough you will sacrifice for it”. 
 

now I continue my search for a member that might want to play with a father son duo! 🤣…. If anyone has any suggestions I’ll gladly take them! Lol

Edited March 9, 2024 by sheppick.dan

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

I will now be scrambling to change times around to get the best chance for the ballot or singles ballot as possible. 
 

I had 2 days open and had scheduled my trip based on worst case of not getting on any ballots and needing to do overnight Que. this change has now moved me to only having 1 chance rather than 2 because of when we were scheduled to get in one night. 
 

I get why they did it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s crap though!!! 
 

even if we don’t play TOC it is still a trip of a lifetime but will always have a what if scenario and that sucks. Our plan was 10pm Sunday night. If we didn’t get on because we weren’t early enough the next day we were going to go earlier. This took away the “if you want it bad enough you will sacrifice for it”. 
 

now I continue my search for a member that might want to play with a father son duo! 🤣…. If anyone has any suggestions I’ll gladly take them! Lol

Exactly! You’ve had the chance to control your opportunity to play TOC taken from you. Now others who are too lazy or don’t have the dedication to que get the same opportunity. It’s just wrong in every way. Hopefully enough people will communicate their displeasure and St. Andrews Links will reverse course. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by hammergolf

[jatrain]

4 hours ago, hammergolf said:

There are literally several people on this thread who scheduled trips to St. Andrews only based on the fact that they KNEW they were getting on TOC because they were willing to get in the que as early as needed to insure they got on. Now, these guys have spent a lot of money but now because of this change have no control of getting to play TOC. I can’t speak for others, but if I don’t win the advanced lottery I won’t plan another trip there. As great as Kingsbarns and other courses are, let’s face it, people go to St. Andrews to play TOC. Now it’s a crapshoot if someone gets on or not. For me, I’m not making that financial investment based on a crapshoot and think many others feel the same.

Yep, this is me.  Now I’m going to have a great trip no matter what but the thought of going there and not getting to play the Old Course is gutting me a little.  I’m doing this on a budget and paying an operator for a guaranteed time just isn’t doable.  
 

Right now I’m trying to decide whether to cancel/move a tee time I have at Elie to give me another day/chance to play it.  Right now I get in on Monday, was going to open at Elie on Tuesday and then had three free St. Andrews days to play.  I was set up for Ballot Buddy for Wednesday and if I didn’t get it would just queue for Thursday (and Friday if needed).  Now I’m thinking moving my tee time for Elie to Friday to give me an additional day if I need it.

 

 

[hammergolf]

6 hours ago, jatrain said:

Yep, this is me.  Now I’m going to have a great trip no matter what but the thought of going there and not getting to play the Old Course is gutting me a little.  I’m doing this on a budget and paying an operator for a guaranteed time just isn’t doable.  
 

Right now I’m trying to decide whether to cancel/move a tee time I have at Elie to give me another day/chance to play it.  Right now I get in on Monday, was going to open at Elie on Tuesday and then had three free St. Andrews days to play.  I was set up for Ballot Buddy for Wednesday and if I didn’t get it would just queue for Thursday (and Friday if needed).  Now I’m thinking moving my tee time for Elie to Friday to give me an additional day if I need it.

 

 

I feel for you. I wouldn’t necessarily adjust your itinerary, but I would recommend you contact all of the golf courses you’ve booked. Almost all of them are very helpful and willing to adjust your tee time and day of play when needed if you win the ballot. Just apply for the ballot every day you’re going to be there, and adjust if needed.

Edited March 10, 2024 by hammergolf

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, lazyjk said:

Not arguing that this doesn't majorly suck for those who had trips planned around the old queue method - I would be quite mad. They could have done a much better job communicating this further in a advance instead of dropping it a week ahead of rollout. 

 

I just disagree that this in any way would backfire enough from a business perspective that they would suddenly decide to go back to the old way. Hell, the only reason the whole bridge thing got rolled back so quickly was the power of viral social media. 15 years ago it would probably have gone through without much of a peep.

 

If I'm wrong, great. That just means I can go do it the old way. 

 

 

I hate the decision, but the fact that they gave ZERO advanced notice is what’s even worse. I mean if you’re going to make the decision, have the change go into effect January 1st, 2025. At least that way people have time to adjust their plans and make a decision whether they want to make the trip or not. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by hammergolf

[sheppick.dan]

26 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

I hate the decision, but the fact that they gave ZERO advanced notice is what’s even worse. I mean if you’re going to make the decision, have the change go into effect January 1st, 2025. At least that way people have time to adjust their plans and make a decision whether they want to make the trip or not. 

I couldn’t agree more!

[flognut]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:46 PM, sheppick.dan said:

I couldn’t agree more!

same here

[Serenity Now]

On planning my trip for this June, I contacted St Andrews w some questions and my contact Collum kept saying in all of his replies: “the demand is unprecedented!”  
 

They did what they felt was necessary and I am ok with it. I really want to play TOC but I am going to St Andrews for 10 days and I am not going to let it ruin the trip of a lifetime whether I get to play toc or whether it rains or blows 40. I’m going to St Andrews for 10 days!  I will enter the ballot every day but I am going to play links golf somewhere cool for all 10 days

Edited March 14, 2024 by Serenity Now
Spelling

[jatrain]

12 hours ago, Serenity Now said:

On planning my trip for this June, I contacted St Andrews w some questions and my contact Collum kept saying in all of his replies: “the demand is unprecedented!”  
 

They did what they felt was necessary and I am ok with it. I really want to play TOC but I am going to St Andrews for 10 days and I am not going to let it ruin the trip of a lifetime whether I get to play toc or whether it rains or blows 40. I’m going to St Andrews for 10 days!  I will enter the ballot every day but I am going to play links golf somewhere cool for all 10 days

Your username is on point.  

[EmperorPenguin]

I am looking for follow-ups on this topic.  How is the new Singles Daily Draw working out?

 

I wonder if, despite this new procedure, golfers are still queueing up to cover last-minute cancellations which even the new system cannot cover (i.e., they will wait by the pavilion until an opportunity comes within a minute)?

Edited June 19, 2024 by EmperorPenguin

[sheppick.dan]

2 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I am looking for follow-ups on this topic.  How is the new Singles Daily Draw working out?

 

I wonder if, despite this new procedure, golfers are still queueing up to cover last-minute cancellations which even the new system cannot cover (i.e., they will wait by the pavilion until an opportunity comes within a minute)?

I’ll let you know in 5 days. It’s when we start the singles que. 

 

I know one guy on here got on even though he wasn’t drawn. He was given a number and he spent the day there hanging out. 

[Olson12]

11 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I am looking for follow-ups on this topic.  How is the new Singles Daily Draw working out?

 

I wonder if, despite this new procedure, golfers are still queueing up to cover last-minute cancellations which even the new system cannot cover (i.e., they will wait by the pavilion until an opportunity comes within a minute)?

day 1 here right now.  Just entered the singles queue and am 0/2 entering the draw on the ballot. 
 

with the singles queue there is a “you’re selected” “you’re in the waitlist” & “don’t bother” grouping 

 

anyone on the waitlist is basically going as you describe; sitting around hoping for a no show. They told us today there is 0% chance you play if you’re not on the waitlist 

Edited June 19, 2024 by Olson12

[Olson12]

Quick update. We finally hit on the ballot have a tee time  for Friday afternoon with our foursome.
 

First day of single draw I’m waitlisted spot number 16

Edited June 19, 2024 by Olson12

[hammergolf]

52 minutes ago, Olson12 said:

Quick update. We finally hit on the ballot have a tee time  for Friday afternoon with our foursome.
 

First day of single draw I’m waitlisted spot number 16

Awesome! Congrats.

[sheppick.dan]

1 hour ago, Olson12 said:

Quick update. We finally hit on the ballot have a tee time  for Friday afternoon with our foursome.
 

First day of single draw I’m waitlisted spot number 16

Heck ya! Enjoy the round!!!

[EmperorPenguin]

10 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Quick update. We finally hit on the ballot have a tee time  for Friday afternoon with our foursome.
 

First day of single draw I’m waitlisted spot number 16

Does anyone have a stat on ballot success?  I am hearing horror stories of something ridiculously low, like under 5%.  Congrats on your ballot success.  If it will be your first time playing, you may be a little nervous, but I say that the best thing to do is to stick with your preshot routine and back off if you get distracted.  Wish I were there to watch you tee off on the first.  Good luck in your round, and I wish you a lifetime of memories at The Old.

Edited June 20, 2024 by EmperorPenguin

[EmperorPenguin]

14 hours ago, Olson12 said:

day 1 here right now.  Just entered the singles queue and am 0/2 entering the draw on the ballot. 
 

with the singles queue there is a “you’re selected” “you’re in the waitlist” & “don’t bother” grouping 

 

anyone on the waitlist is basically going as you describe; sitting around hoping for a no show. They told us today there is 0% chance you play if you’re not on the waitlist 

So guys on the waitlist have their clubs nearby and ready to pounce on an opening within five minutes?   I do not remember seeing piles of golf bags on the first tee when I played the Old Course on both occasions.

 

Fortunately for these patient chaps, they can cross the road behind the first tee and go to Ham's Hame to order food (for "takeaway," as they say in UK) while they wait, and with smartphones and battery packs they can just watch movies or be productive while they wait.  Maybe there are a few folding lawn chairs also?

Edited June 20, 2024 by EmperorPenguin