The Old Course - New Process for Single Golfers

[scott_Donald]

4 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

So guys on the waitlist have their clubs nearby and ready to pounce on an opening within five minutes?   I do not remember seeing piles of golf bags on the first tee when I played the Old Course on both occasions.

 

Fortunately for these patient chaps, they can cross the road behind the first tee and go to Ham's Hame to order food (for "takeaway," as they say in UK) while they wait, and with smartphones and battery packs they can just watch movies or be productive while they wait.  Maybe there are a few folding lawn chairs also?

 

my friend just joined us shopping and wondering around town. he went back when he was told. arrived back was told a tee time, headed to Dukes played nine then got a taxi to the first tee at the Old and played. he had a great day!

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Couple mid-July observations about the process, as I’ve just recently been through town in the peak of summer. I casually did the ballot, despite the fact that we won a 48 hour slot, just to see what it was like…

 

1. DO NOT wear a hat when you take your picture, and make sure no one else’s face is in the background. Your entry will be cancelled. 
 

2. As predicted, I overheard chats of people who were entering the singles draw that, IMHO, would have probably not done the old singles queuing method. Slots were very competitive. I was #108(!) on the waitlist in the evening, down into the 90s the following morning. With the weather being nearly pristine, I would’ve had absolutely no shot. Basically, if you’re coming in July, don’t get your hopes up. The singles queue is not the same opportunity that it used to be pre COVID. This is probably more of a reflection of the worldwide uptick in demand for golf than the new process, exclusively. The Links Trust is not the villain, here. 

 

3. Seems like quite a few tourists are nipping into town to take a shot at the ballot, then ducking back out of town/making other arrangements for the day at courses in greater Fife if they don’t, which may really be saturating the lottery pool. Many of these folks were probably formerly 48 hour ballot only, but they seem to be throwing their chips into both pots now. We stayed right next to the Dunvegan. It was so pleasantly calm and quiet in the mornings before 9am, and got very busy between 12-5pm, before quieting down again after 5. I was shocked how easy it was to get a table for dinner without reservations. 

 

4. As a single, it’s still fairly possible to get times on the other Links Trust courses, if you’re up and out early. I was able to walk on as a single on the New, arriving at the starter’s hut around 8:30 (9:30 tee time). Seems like everything moves off of the new ballot system, so times on the others start filling up quickly once the courses open. Get a time somewhere well before 9am. There were still many locals on the Eden, the Jubilee, and the New. Again, my perception is that quite a decent chunk of the tourists who aren’t staying in St. Andrews proper may be looking at greater Fife courses if they don’t get TOC, but still seem to be saturating the singles lottery in the peak of summer, and making arrangements quickly if they don’t get it. 

 

As a final note, I think it’s important to acknowledge that what goes around, comes around. I complained about the new process when it was announced and would’ve given anything to play just one round at TOC, but before I came I resolved myself to be grateful for whatever opportunities I’d get, enjoy my vacation, test my game, learn a thing or two about a very different style of play, and come to appreciate the game as the Scots do. We were extremely lucky to snag the absolute last visitor’s slot of the day on TOC, and I don’t know if I’d say I felt deserving/worthy, but I suppose a bit of grace and humility goes a long way. I loved the New (great par 3 holes) and I’ve loved some off the ‘off-the-main-track’ courses we’ve been able to play during our trip. The Scottish caddies don’t really bat much of an eye when you tell them you’ve played N. Berwick or that you’re going to Carnoustie tomorrow, but tell them you’ve just come from Fortrose or Dunbar and watch their ears perk up. There’s SO much stellar golf out there to enjoy, and the locals get that.  

 

On the morning of our OC tee time, a late 60s/early 70s gentlemen in our B&B came down for breakfast. While we were eating just a few feet away, we overheard him complaining to anyone who was willing to listen about how impossible it was to get on as a single and how annoyed he was that it was so competitive. He complained that they ask for your birthday on the form (a seemingly asinine intrusion of personal privacy in his mind) but not your handicap (with an intimation that his 9 index should make him worthy to play over those with higher indexes), complained about the course being closed on Sundays (he somehow wasn’t aware of this when he booked his trip?) so the general public could use and appreciate it, suggested that there must be a better way to get more people out on the course, and boasted about his grand golf/cruise tour of the British Isles, playing Portmarnock, Kingsbarns, Royal St. Georges, etc. This gentlemen is exactly the sort that would’ve possibly never even attempted to enter the singles queue under the old system, so he didn’t even seem grateful for the fact that the Links Trust has basically leveled the playing field for him versus psychopaths like me who would’ve played it on no sleep after sitting on a bench all night. We listened to him all through breakfast; my wife and I went upstairs, packed all our bags, took several trips loading luggage in the car, and as we went to check out - 90 minutes later - he was still sitting at the breakfast table, still complaining, while the home of golf and a delightful town full of things to do and see sat right beyond the front door (on a perfect, calm, sunny day).

 

We went off and had one of the best days of our trip - we grabbed a coffee and walked through the free St. Andrews Cathedral grounds (and watched in horror as a guy dressed in an obnoxiously gaudy dancing bears golf polo swore loudly through the cemetery and unknowingly walked all over Old Tom Morris’ grave while ironically trying to find it), played the Himalayas, talked to the caddie master in the caddie pavilion for over an hour about golf and macaroni pie and tablet ice cream and the differences between the new Irn Bru recipe vs the (more sugary) original. That, in and of itself, was enough to make it an amazing, enriching, and fulfilling day, and it all happened before we got to go out and enjoy one of the most delightful rounds of golf I’ve ever experienced, meeting and playing with another lovely couple from the States, filming my wife having a go at 100 foot putts, laughing and joking with our caddies, enjoying an amazing dinner of pies and rolls at the halfway house while fighting off the crows, and missing a 4 footer in front of a modest crowd to bogey the 18th as the sun was setting behind us.

 

As I laid in bed at the end of one of the best days in my whole life, I couldn’t help but think about the guy who complained all through his breakfast or the guy who tramped all over the grave of Old Tom, and I was reminded how important gratitude and humility are in this world. Don’t get your hopes up about TOC and appreciate whatever comes your way and you’re sure to avoid disappointment. It feels disingenuous to say that having done TOC, but I tend to believe that luck isn’t always completely up to chance.

[sheppick.dan]

2 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Couple mid-July observations about the process, as I’ve just recently been through town in the peak of summer. I casually did the ballot, despite the fact that we won a 48 hour slot, just to see what it was like…

 

1. DO NOT wear a hat when you take your picture, and make sure no one else’s face is in the background. Your entry will be cancelled. 
 

2. As predicted, I overheard chats of people who were entering the singles draw that, IMHO, would have probably not done the old singles queuing method. Slots were very competitive. I was #108(!) on the waitlist in the evening, down into the 90s the following morning. With the weather being nearly pristine, I would’ve had absolutely no shot. Basically, if you’re coming in July, don’t get your hopes up. The singles queue is not the same opportunity that it used to be pre COVID. This is probably more of a reflection of the worldwide uptick in demand for golf than the new process, exclusively. The Links Trust is not the villain, here. 

 

3. Seems like quite a few tourists are nipping into town to take a shot at the ballot, then ducking back out of town/making other arrangements for the day at courses in greater Fife if they don’t, which may really be saturating the lottery pool. Many of these folks were probably formerly 48 hour ballot only, but they seem to be throwing their chips into both pots now. We stayed right next to the Dunvegan. It was so pleasantly calm and quiet in the mornings before 9am, and got very busy between 12-5pm, before quieting down again after 5. I was shocked how easy it was to get a table for dinner without reservations. 

 

4. As a single, it’s still fairly possible to get times on the other Links Trust courses, if you’re up and out early. I was able to walk on as a single on the New, arriving at the starter’s hut around 8:30 (9:30 tee time). Seems like everything moves off of the new ballot system, so times on the others start filling up quickly once the courses open. Get a time somewhere well before 9am. There were still many locals on the Eden, the Jubilee, and the New. Again, my perception is that quite a decent chunk of the tourists who aren’t staying in St. Andrews proper may be looking at greater Fife courses if they don’t get TOC, but still seem to be saturating the singles lottery in the peak of summer, and making arrangements quickly if they don’t get it. 

 

As a final note, I think it’s important to acknowledge that what goes around, comes around. I complained about the new process when it was announced and would’ve given anything to play just one round at TOC, but before I came I resolved myself to be grateful for whatever opportunities I’d get, enjoy my vacation, test my game, learn a thing or two about a very different style of play, and come to appreciate the game as the Scots do. We were extremely lucky to snag the absolute last visitor’s slot of the day on TOC, and I don’t know if I’d say I felt deserving/worthy, but I suppose a bit of grace and humility goes a long way. I loved the New (great par 3 holes) and I’ve loved some off the ‘off-the-main-track’ courses we’ve been able to play during our trip. The Scottish caddies don’t really bat much of an eye when you tell them you’ve played N. Berwick or that you’re going to Carnoustie tomorrow, but tell them you’ve just come from Fortrose or Dunbar and watch their ears perk up. There’s SO much stellar golf out there to enjoy, and the locals get that.  

 

On the morning of our OC tee time, a late 60s/early 70s gentlemen in our B&B came down for breakfast. While we were eating just a few feet away, we overheard him complaining to anyone who was willing to listen about how impossible it was to get on as a single and how annoyed he was that it was so competitive. He complained that they ask for your birthday on the form (a seemingly asinine intrusion of personal privacy in his mind) but not your handicap (with an intimation that his 9 index should make him worthy to play over those with higher indexes), complained about the course being closed on Sundays (he somehow wasn’t aware of this when he booked his trip?) so the general public could use and appreciate it, suggested that there must be a better way to get more people out on the course, and boasted about his grand golf/cruise tour of the British Isles, playing Portmarnock, Kingsbarns, Royal St. Georges, etc. This gentlemen is exactly the sort that would’ve possibly never even attempted to enter the singles queue under the old system, so he didn’t even seem grateful for the fact that the Links Trust has basically leveled the playing field for him versus psychopaths like me who would’ve played it on no sleep after sitting on a bench all night. We listened to him all through breakfast; my wife and I went upstairs, packed all our bags, took several trips loading luggage in the car, and as we went to check out - 90 minutes later - he was still sitting at the breakfast table, still complaining, while the home of golf and a delightful town full of things to do and see sat right beyond the front door (on a perfect, calm, sunny day).

 

We went off and had one of the best days of our trip - we grabbed a coffee and walked through the free St. Andrews Cathedral grounds (and watched in horror as a guy dressed in an obnoxiously gaudy dancing bears golf polo swore loudly through the cemetery and unknowingly walked all over Old Tom Morris’ grave while ironically trying to find it), played the Himalayas, talked to the caddie master in the caddie pavilion for over an hour about golf and macaroni pie and tablet ice cream and the differences between the new Irn Bru recipe vs the (more sugary) original. That, in and of itself, was enough to make it an amazing, enriching, and fulfilling day, and it all happened before we got to go out and enjoy one of the most delightful rounds of golf I’ve ever experienced, meeting and playing with another lovely couple from the States, filming my wife having a go at 100 foot putts, laughing and joking with our caddies, enjoying an amazing dinner of pies and rolls at the halfway house while fighting off the crows, and missing a 4 footer in front of a modest crowd to bogey the 18th as the sun was setting behind us.

 

As I laid in bed at the end of one of the best days in my whole life, I couldn’t help but think about the guy who complained all through his breakfast or the guy who tramped all over the grave of Old Tom, and I was reminded how important gratitude and humility are in this world. Don’t get your hopes up about TOC and appreciate whatever comes your way and you’re sure to avoid disappointment. It feels disingenuous to say that having done TOC, but I tend to believe that luck isn’t always completely up to chance.

Couldn’t agree more with what you said. I was fortunate enough to get drawn in the singles ballot. My dad was lucky enough to start at 27 and get on by 9:50am. 
 

what I thought was super cool was the fact that you could walk wherever you wanted. We waited on 18 to tee off so people could get their picture on the bridge and then they walked with us while we played the hole. It is very relaxed vibe. The workers were nothing short of amazing and would talk about anything and everything. 
 

I was upset when they changed the draw because I too am crazy enough I would have sat there as long as needed to guarantee a spot on the course! But it all worked in the end. 
 

we actually drove in on Thursday am from carnoustie to put my dad on the Friday list for one last chance. When he got 27 we cancelled our Friday plans and booked a hotel at 7:30 pm and headed back to st Andrews to try! Luckily he was able to get on and loved it!

[jatrain]

4 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Couple mid-July observations about the process, as I’ve just recently been through town in the peak of summer. I casually did the ballot, despite the fact that we won a 48 hour slot, just to see what it was like…

 

1. DO NOT wear a hat when you take your picture, and make sure no one else’s face is in the background. Your entry will be cancelled. 
 

2. As predicted, I overheard chats of people who were entering the singles draw that, IMHO, would have probably not done the old singles queuing method. Slots were very competitive. I was #108(!) on the waitlist in the evening, down into the 90s the following morning. With the weather being nearly pristine, I would’ve had absolutely no shot. Basically, if you’re coming in July, don’t get your hopes up. The singles queue is not the same opportunity that it used to be pre COVID. This is probably more of a reflection of the worldwide uptick in demand for golf than the new process, exclusively. The Links Trust is not the villain, here. 

 

3. Seems like quite a few tourists are nipping into town to take a shot at the ballot, then ducking back out of town/making other arrangements for the day at courses in greater Fife if they don’t, which may really be saturating the lottery pool. Many of these folks were probably formerly 48 hour ballot only, but they seem to be throwing their chips into both pots now. We stayed right next to the Dunvegan. It was so pleasantly calm and quiet in the mornings before 9am, and got very busy between 12-5pm, before quieting down again after 5. I was shocked how easy it was to get a table for dinner without reservations. 

 

4. As a single, it’s still fairly possible to get times on the other Links Trust courses, if you’re up and out early. I was able to walk on as a single on the New, arriving at the starter’s hut around 8:30 (9:30 tee time). Seems like everything moves off of the new ballot system, so times on the others start filling up quickly once the courses open. Get a time somewhere well before 9am. There were still many locals on the Eden, the Jubilee, and the New. Again, my perception is that quite a decent chunk of the tourists who aren’t staying in St. Andrews proper may be looking at greater Fife courses if they don’t get TOC, but still seem to be saturating the singles lottery in the peak of summer, and making arrangements quickly if they don’t get it. 

 

As a final note, I think it’s important to acknowledge that what goes around, comes around. I complained about the new process when it was announced and would’ve given anything to play just one round at TOC, but before I came I resolved myself to be grateful for whatever opportunities I’d get, enjoy my vacation, test my game, learn a thing or two about a very different style of play, and come to appreciate the game as the Scots do. We were extremely lucky to snag the absolute last visitor’s slot of the day on TOC, and I don’t know if I’d say I felt deserving/worthy, but I suppose a bit of grace and humility goes a long way. I loved the New (great par 3 holes) and I’ve loved some off the ‘off-the-main-track’ courses we’ve been able to play during our trip. The Scottish caddies don’t really bat much of an eye when you tell them you’ve played N. Berwick or that you’re going to Carnoustie tomorrow, but tell them you’ve just come from Fortrose or Dunbar and watch their ears perk up. There’s SO much stellar golf out there to enjoy, and the locals get that.  

 

On the morning of our OC tee time, a late 60s/early 70s gentlemen in our B&B came down for breakfast. While we were eating just a few feet away, we overheard him complaining to anyone who was willing to listen about how impossible it was to get on as a single and how annoyed he was that it was so competitive. He complained that they ask for your birthday on the form (a seemingly asinine intrusion of personal privacy in his mind) but not your handicap (with an intimation that his 9 index should make him worthy to play over those with higher indexes), complained about the course being closed on Sundays (he somehow wasn’t aware of this when he booked his trip?) so the general public could use and appreciate it, suggested that there must be a better way to get more people out on the course, and boasted about his grand golf/cruise tour of the British Isles, playing Portmarnock, Kingsbarns, Royal St. Georges, etc. This gentlemen is exactly the sort that would’ve possibly never even attempted to enter the singles queue under the old system, so he didn’t even seem grateful for the fact that the Links Trust has basically leveled the playing field for him versus psychopaths like me who would’ve played it on no sleep after sitting on a bench all night. We listened to him all through breakfast; my wife and I went upstairs, packed all our bags, took several trips loading luggage in the car, and as we went to check out - 90 minutes later - he was still sitting at the breakfast table, still complaining, while the home of golf and a delightful town full of things to do and see sat right beyond the front door (on a perfect, calm, sunny day).

 

We went off and had one of the best days of our trip - we grabbed a coffee and walked through the free St. Andrews Cathedral grounds (and watched in horror as a guy dressed in an obnoxiously gaudy dancing bears golf polo swore loudly through the cemetery and unknowingly walked all over Old Tom Morris’ grave while ironically trying to find it), played the Himalayas, talked to the caddie master in the caddie pavilion for over an hour about golf and macaroni pie and tablet ice cream and the differences between the new Irn Bru recipe vs the (more sugary) original. That, in and of itself, was enough to make it an amazing, enriching, and fulfilling day, and it all happened before we got to go out and enjoy one of the most delightful rounds of golf I’ve ever experienced, meeting and playing with another lovely couple from the States, filming my wife having a go at 100 foot putts, laughing and joking with our caddies, enjoying an amazing dinner of pies and rolls at the halfway house while fighting off the crows, and missing a 4 footer in front of a modest crowd to bogey the 18th as the sun was setting behind us.

 

As I laid in bed at the end of one of the best days in my whole life, I couldn’t help but think about the guy who complained all through his breakfast or the guy who tramped all over the grave of Old Tom, and I was reminded how important gratitude and humility are in this world. Don’t get your hopes up about TOC and appreciate whatever comes your way and you’re sure to avoid disappointment. It feels disingenuous to say that having done TOC, but I tend to believe that luck isn’t always completely up to chance.

Thanks for this.  So my plan for my September trip is that if I don’t win the 2 day ballot to try the singles cue and then, depending on my waitlist number, get there first thing in the morning to book either early or late on one of the other links trust courses.  I have 5 days to try this.  I want to maximize my chances on the Old while not missing out on a day of play waiting around.  
 

Does this seem like it would work?  Do they give some guidance as what waitlist numbers will have a chance to get on?  

[sheppick.dan]

18 hours ago, jatrain said:

Thanks for this.  So my plan for my September trip is that if I don’t win the 2 day ballot to try the singles cue and then, depending on my waitlist number, get there first thing in the morning to book either early or late on one of the other links trust courses.  I have 5 days to try this.  I want to maximize my chances on the Old while not missing out on a day of play waiting around.  
 

Does this seem like it would work?  Do they give some guidance as what waitlist numbers will have a chance to get on?  

Yes, they will give you some guidance. For instance one day we were 76 for my dad. The guy said enjoy your round elsewhere today!

 

the day that he started at 25 the gentlemen said you’ve got a good chance, go have breakfast and check back around 8:30. When we got back he checked him in (there were three ahead of him checked in, his number was down to 10 on waitlist) Then a 5:40 slot cancelled. 2 golfers took that so he was now effectively #2. The guy Infront of my dad said he was going to go walk the course with his dad’s group making my dad #1 that was checked in. 2 spots opened 9:50 and 12. He messaged the guy walking and he didn’t respond quick enough so my dad got the 9:50 (it was 9:40 at the time). The kid came running in at 9:45 and was given the 12pm time. 
 

it looked like about 30-40 alternates got on each day. If the weather got bad more people got on. 
 

good luck to you! Hopefully you get drawn on the singles with a guaranteed spot. I was on fairway of 18 at kingsbarns when I got the text about getting on at 11th next day. I don’t know who was more excited, me or my caddy for me!

 

Make sure hats off, glasses off and it’s a shot from your shoulders up or they will disqualify you. My dad made that mistake the first day when I got on. 

Edited July 14, 2024 by sheppick.dan

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

18 hours ago, jatrain said:

Thanks for this.  So my plan for my September trip is that if I don’t win the 2 day ballot to try the singles cue and then, depending on my waitlist number, get there first thing in the morning to book either early or late on one of the other links trust courses.  I have 5 days to try this.  I want to maximize my chances on the Old while not missing out on a day of play waiting around.  
 

Does this seem like it would work?  Do they give some guidance as what waitlist numbers will have a chance to get on?  

I think you’re going about it the right way. You’ll know pretty early the evening before if you’re on or have an outside shot at TOC so you’ll have plenty of time to make alternate plans, and you can refresh the waitlist webpage to see if you’re moving up in line. That could be worth monitoring well into the following morning. 

 

You could go to the pavilion first thing (if waitlisted) and ask them for a sense of where the day is headed and I’m sure they’d be able to help - and possibly book something for you on one of the other courses, as well. This is their job and they deal with coordination of tee times on a daily basis.

 

The waitlist seems like a total crapshoot. I’ve heard of people in the 30s sneaking into a spot, but when we were in the pavilion, there was a guy who was #4 on the list (they had told him in the morning to come back to the pavilion around 3pm), and it didn’t sound like he had much of a shot. It was a perfect weather day (low to mid 60s and sunny), and it was a Saturday, so he basically needed a Hail Mary no show, which was unlikely given the weather. They told him he could hang out, and he’d likely have needed all his stuff ready, because he’d probably go from finding out he’s playing to teeing off in 20 minutes or less. 

 

It seems like the last visitor tee times are before 5pm, and after that the times are reserved for locals, so it’s possible that those late times are more likely to become available for waitlisters. I’m not sure where the cutoff is and it probably depends on the day. 50+ in line probably doesn’t have a great chance.

 

If you get a waitlist spot that you want to pursue, get to the pavilion first thing in the morning and talk to them. They’ll give you a sense of how the day’s stacking up so you can make an informed decision about whether you want to try to wait it out or go in a different direction. 

[jatrain]

10 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

Yes, they will give you some guidance. For instance one day we were 76 for my dad. The guy said enjoy your round elsewhere today!

 

the day that he started at 25 the gentlemen said you’ve got a good chance, go have breakfast and check back around 8:30. When we got back he checked him in (there were three ahead of him checked in, his number was down to 10 on waitlist) Then a 5:40 slot cancelled. 2 golfers took that so he was now effectively #2. The guy Infront of my dad said he was going to go walk the course with his dad’s group making my dad #1 that was checked in. 2 spots opened 9:50 and 12. He messaged the guy walking and he didn’t respond quick enough so my dad got the 9:50 (it was 9:40 at the time). The kid came running in at 9:45 and was given the 12pm time. 
 

it looked like about 30-40 alternates got on each day. If the weather got bad more people got on. 
 

good luck to you! Hopefully you get drawn on the singles with a guaranteed spot. I was on fairway of 18 at kingsbarns when I got the text about getting on at 11th next day. I don’t know who was more excited, me or my caddy for me!

 

Make sure hats off, glasses off and it’s a shot from your shoulders up or they will disqualify you. My dad made that mistake the first day when I got on. 

Thanks!

[jatrain]

10 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

I think you’re going about it the right way. You’ll know pretty early the evening before if you’re on or have an outside shot at TOC so you’ll have plenty of time to make alternate plans, and you can refresh the waitlist webpage to see if you’re moving up in line. That could be worth monitoring well into the following morning. 

 

You could go to the pavilion first thing (if waitlisted) and ask them for a sense of where the day is headed and I’m sure they’d be able to help - and possibly book something for you on one of the other courses, as well. This is their job and they deal with coordination of tee times on a daily basis.

 

The waitlist seems like a total crapshoot. I’ve heard of people in the 30s sneaking into a spot, but when we were in the pavilion, there was a guy who was #4 on the list (they had told him in the morning to come back to the pavilion around 3pm), and it didn’t sound like he had much of a shot. It was a perfect weather day (low to mid 60s and sunny), and it was a Saturday, so he basically needed a Hail Mary no show, which was unlikely given the weather. They told him he could hang out, and he’d likely have needed all his stuff ready, because he’d probably go from finding out he’s playing to teeing off in 20 minutes or less. 

 

It seems like the last visitor tee times are before 5pm, and after that the times are reserved for locals, so it’s possible that those late times are more likely to become available for waitlisters. I’m not sure where the cutoff is and it probably depends on the day. 50+ in line probably doesn’t have a great chance.

 

If you get a waitlist spot that you want to pursue, get to the pavilion first thing in the morning and talk to them. They’ll give you a sense of how the day’s stacking up so you can make an informed decision about whether you want to try to wait it out or go in a different direction. 

Thanks!

[CanFred]

Great feedback all around - I'll be there in late March so I was able to get a Winter Package tee time (and thankfully lock down the rest of my itinerary) and not have to worry about the 48 hour or singles queue.  

[Greg_egg]

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice in this thread. 

 

I will be heading to St Andrews for 3 full days (half a day either side) in May next year. I will be there Monday to Thursday (leaving Friday). What're people's thoughts on the Swilcan Package (https://www.standrews.com/swilcan_package_2025)? It is 650 pounds but gives you a guaranteed tee time at the Old Course, a tee time at another St Andrews Links course and a 60 pound food/drink credit. It seems like you're effectively paying about 130 pounds for the guaranteed booking.

 

What do you think my chances would be entering the singles queue on each of the three days if I opted to do that instead of the Swilcan package? 

 

A bit of a pain, but I feel it is worth the 130 pounds for peace of mind.

[jatrain]

8 hours ago, Greg_egg said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice in this thread. 

 

I will be heading to St Andrews for 3 full days (half a day either side) in May next year. I will be there Monday to Thursday (leaving Friday). What're people's thoughts on the Swilcan Package (https://www.standrews.com/swilcan_package_2025)? It is 650 pounds but gives you a guaranteed tee time at the Old Course, a tee time at another St Andrews Links course and a 60 pound food/drink credit. It seems like you're effectively paying about 130 pounds for the guaranteed booking.

 

What do you think my chances would be entering the singles queue on each of the three days if I opted to do that instead of the Swilcan package? 

 

A bit of a pain, but I feel it is worth the 130 pounds for peace of mind.

I’m headed there next week, and have 5 days to try the 2 day ballot plus singles queue.  I’ll post about my experience.  
 

If St. Andrews called m and told me I could have a guaranteed time for an extra £130 I’d jump on it.  

Edited August 21, 2024 by jatrain

[scott_Donald]

I was in the ballot last week Monday to Friday with a new club member who is not a local so slightly better chance than full visitor but no luck…. Nothing was shocked really. 
 

will try again in September with a new club member who is a local who can get a much better chance. Along with the original new club member who is taking me as a guest.

 

seems the course has been busy lately.
 

June was amazing for bookings in my STL but July not so good. Been a strange summer of up and down busyness. August was solid the first two weeks then quiet last’ week before the women’s. Heading down tomorrow to stay in my other house there tomorrow for the women’s open, can’t wait to just hang out in town; so good when any big comp is on.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by scott_Donald

[Yoshifan151]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:51 AM, Greg_egg said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice in this thread. 

 

I will be heading to St Andrews for 3 full days (half a day either side) in May next year. I will be there Monday to Thursday (leaving Friday). What're people's thoughts on the Swilcan Package (https://www.standrews.com/swilcan_package_2025)? It is 650 pounds but gives you a guaranteed tee time at the Old Course, a tee time at another St Andrews Links course and a 60 pound food/drink credit. It seems like you're effectively paying about 130 pounds for the guaranteed booking.

 

What do you think my chances would be entering the singles queue on each of the three days if I opted to do that instead of the Swilcan package? 

 

A bit of a pain, but I feel it is worth the 130 pounds for peace of mind.

Yeah it seems excessive, but I guess it's better than gambling on getting a spot a day or 2 out. At least it's not absurdly jacked up like tour operators do.

[sheppick.dan]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:51 AM, Greg_egg said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice in this thread. 

 

I will be heading to St Andrews for 3 full days (half a day either side) in May next year. I will be there Monday to Thursday (leaving Friday). What're people's thoughts on the Swilcan Package (https://www.standrews.com/swilcan_package_2025)? It is 650 pounds but gives you a guaranteed tee time at the Old Course, a tee time at another St Andrews Links course and a 60 pound food/drink credit. It seems like you're effectively paying about 130 pounds for the guaranteed booking.

 

What do you think my chances would be entering the singles queue on each of the three days if I opted to do that instead of the Swilcan package? 

 

A bit of a pain, but I feel it is worth the 130 pounds for peace of mind.

I would absolutely pay the extra to have a guaranteed spot. 
 

we did singled ballot daily and 48 hour 2-some ballot. 
 

I got lucky and was drawn one day. My dad waited all day the last day and got on. But the stress of that day sucked and the extra would have been money well spent. 

[Greg_egg]

On 8/22/2024 at 5:25 AM, jatrain said:

I’m headed there next week, and have 5 days to try the 2 day ballot plus singles queue.  I’ll post about my experience.  
 

If St. Andrews called m and told me I could have a guaranteed time for an extra £130 I’d jump on it.  

 

How did you go?

[jatrain]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:14 PM, Greg_egg said:

 

How did you go?

I posted elsewhere but basically I went 0/5 in both the Ballot and the single draw.  I never even got close in the singles, didn’t get below 30 on the waitlist.  
 

I had an amazing trip but I did find the St. Andrews (Links, town was amazing) experiencing lacking.  Getting rid of the actual queue removes the ability of golf diehards to “earn” their way into the Old Course and instead makes it more akin to a tourist attraction.  Sitting in the starter shack, there were so many people signing up for the single draw that would never have waited in line, and were just there on a (non-golf) vacation with their wife and decided to “give it a shot.”  We were joking with the starter that their rental club revenue is through the roof.  I obviously had no more right to play vs those people but do feel they could do things a little differently (for example, weight the draw towards those who had entered for multiple consecutive days).

 
 

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, jatrain said:

I posted elsewhere but basically I went 0/5 in both the Ballot and the single draw.  I never even got close in the singles, didn’t get below 30 on the waitlist.  
 

I had an amazing trip but I did find the St. Andrews (Links, town was amazing) experiencing lacking.  Getting rid of the actual queue removes the ability of golf diehards to “earn” their way into the Old Course and instead makes it more akin to a tourist attraction.  Sitting in the starter shack, there were so many people signing up for the single draw that would never have waited in line, and were just there on a (non-golf) vacation with their wife and decided to “give it a shot.”  We were joking with the starter that their rental club revenue is through the roof.  I obviously had no more right to play vs those people but do feel they could do things a little differently (for example, weight the draw towards those who had entered for multiple consecutive days).

 
 

EXACTLY! In the past, only those that were truly dedicated to made the sacrifice to play TOC. Now those golfers are being punished by the new policy and no longer have any control to increase their chances of getting on. I’ve also noticed the the advanced 3 and 7 day tickets are not listed on their site currently. I’m not sure where or who is behind these new changes, but it seems like their efforts are make it even harder to get on. Maybe his is pressure from their approved suppliers or just to increase revenue but most I’ve spoken with do not like the changes.

Edited December 26, 2024 by hammergolf

[jatrain]

On 12/26/2024 at 2:48 PM, hammergolf said:

EXACTLY! In the past, only those that were truly dedicated to made the sacrifice to play TOC. Now those golfers are being punished by the new policy and no longer have any control to increase their chances of getting on. I’ve also noticed the the advanced 3 and 7 day tickets are not listed on their site currently. I’m not sure where or who is behind these new changes, but it seems like their efforts are make it even harder to get on. Maybe his is pressure from their approved suppliers or just to increase revenue but most I’ve spoken with do not like the changes.

I got the impression that they very much cater to the suppliers/tour operators.  I went to the starters for the New/Jubilee/Eden right when they opened trying to get on as a single.  They told me I could wait around to try to join a group as they had several going out that were less than a foursome, but wouldn’t recommend it if I could get on somewhere else as those times were controlled by tour operators and they didn’t want singles added to their groups.  
 

I went to Crail to play Craighead instead and they got me out on Balcomie (even though it showed fully booked online). 

[hammergolf]

5 minutes ago, jatrain said:

I got the impression that they very much cater to the suppliers/tour operators.  I went to the starters for the New/Jubilee/Eden right when they opened trying to get on as a single.  They told me I could wait around to try to join a group as they had several going out that were less than a foursome, but wouldn’t recommend it if I could get on somewhere else as those times were controlled by tour operators and they didn’t want singles added to their groups.  
 

I went to Crail to play Craighead instead and they got me out on Balcomie (even though it showed fully booked online). 

Yes it’s definitely a “home team” system when it comes to their relationships with Tour Operators. It’s even hard to become a licensed provider. Essentially it’s a ballot each year that’s weighted on how many client rounds you booked the year before….. I mean if you don’t have any TOC times, how can you book clients??? One other change I’ve noticed is that they are not offering the 3 day or 7 day advanced or unlimited packages. For a place that’s steeped so much in history and tradition they seem to be moving away from many processes that let people have any control of playing TOC. Disappointing

[Messma]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:41 PM, jatrain said:

I got the impression that they very much cater to the suppliers/tour operators.  I went to the starters for the New/Jubilee/Eden right when they opened trying to get on as a single.  They told me I could wait around to try to join a group as they had several going out that were less than a foursome, but wouldn’t recommend it if I could get on somewhere else as those times were controlled by tour operators and they didn’t want singles added to their groups.  
 

I went to Crail to play Craighead instead and they got me out on Balcomie (even though it showed fully booked online). 

Interesting. When did you go and was there any event going on that was taking up tee times? When I went at the end of July this year, I went to the New Course starter right after he opened, and he said the first tee was open and I could go right on if I was ready. I’m going again in June and was planning to just try to get a tee time the day of in case I get on the Old Course, but maybe I need to rethink that strategy if I won’t be able to walk up and get on any of the other St. Andrews courses. Did you try to get any tee times the day before? When trying to move around tee times this summer, the guy I spoke with said they release additional New Course tee times the day before play. 

[bigred90gt]

On 8/21/2024 at 5:51 AM, Greg_egg said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice in this thread. 

 

I will be heading to St Andrews for 3 full days (half a day either side) in May next year. I will be there Monday to Thursday (leaving Friday). What're people's thoughts on the Swilcan Package (https://www.standrews.com/swilcan_package_2025)? It is 650 pounds but gives you a guaranteed tee time at the Old Course, a tee time at another St Andrews Links course and a 60 pound food/drink credit. It seems like you're effectively paying about 130 pounds for the guaranteed booking.

 

What do you think my chances would be entering the singles queue on each of the three days if I opted to do that instead of the Swilcan package? 

 

A bit of a pain, but I feel it is worth the 130 pounds for peace of mind.

My wife and I decided to take a 2 week European vacation for my 45th birthday in September of this year. Last month when we were looking into it, we saw the 2 day ballot and singles lottery for the Old Course, but could not find any other way to get a slot. I had no desire to fly half way across the world with my golf clubs for a chance at a chance to play there, so I decided to call. They had 2 cancellations for the Swilcan package on the days we are going to be there, so I booked them for me and the Mrs. We are playing Castle course the first day, and the Old Course the second day. Yes, it was expensive, but worth it to me. I have wanted to play there since I started playing golf, and thankfully we are in a position where we can afford random things like this, so the cost of the package made sense for what is essentially a once in a lifetime round for me. 

 

We are flying into London a few days before, and driving up to St Andrews (with a couple of random overnight stays in who knows what little towns on the way). Day after the round we're flying to Munich and will be driving to a small town in Germany, then Austria, Italy a few days, then France for a few days and flying home from Paris. The two things I wanted to do was play The Old Course and see the beaches of Normandy. Might even swing through the town where my family came from in the 1600s in France, lol. 

[Chanceman]

11 hours ago, bigred90gt said:

My wife and I decided to take a 2 week European vacation for my 45th birthday in September of this year. Last month when we were looking into it, we saw the 2 day ballot and singles lottery for the Old Course, but could not find any other way to get a slot. I had no desire to fly half way across the world with my golf clubs for a chance at a chance to play there, so I decided to call. They had 2 cancellations for the Swilcan package on the days we are going to be there, so I booked them for me and the Mrs. We are playing Castle course the first day, and the Old Course the second day. Yes, it was expensive, but worth it to me. I have wanted to play there since I started playing golf, and thankfully we are in a position where we can afford random things like this, so the cost of the package made sense for what is essentially a once in a lifetime round for me. 

 

We are flying into London a few days before, and driving up to St Andrews (with a couple of random overnight stays in who knows what little towns on the way). Day after the round we're flying to Munich and will be driving to a small town in Germany, then Austria, Italy a few days, then France for a few days and flying home from Paris. The two things I wanted to do was play The Old Course and see the beaches of Normandy. Might even swing through the town where my family came from in the 1600s in France, lol. 

Fantastic trip. Looks like all the pieces fit.  Let’s know how it goes. 

[jatrain]

12 hours ago, Messma said:

Interesting. When did you go and was there any event going on that was taking up tee times? When I went at the end of July this year, I went to the New Course starter right after he opened, and he said the first tee was open and I could go right on if I was ready. I’m going again in June and was planning to just try to get a tee time the day of in case I get on the Old Course, but maybe I need to rethink that strategy if I won’t be able to walk up and get on any of the other St. Andrews courses. Did you try to get any tee times the day before? When trying to move around tee times this summer, the guy I spoke with said they release additional New Course tee times the day before play. 

I was there in September.  New Course was closed for an event for one of the days I tried to play, that day got on the Jubilee paired with another single first time out.  The two other days went as I described.  As a single I don’t think they allow tee times the day prior.  
 

If you’re doing the single draw you’ll have a good idea (based on waitlist number) if you’re going to get on the Old and then can plan accordingly.  I still think checking with the starter for whatever St. A course you want first thing is a good idea and then if you can’t get out look at the other Fife courses.  

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:19 AM, Messma said:

Interesting. When did you go and was there any event going on that was taking up tee times? When I went at the end of July this year, I went to the New Course starter right after he opened, and he said the first tee was open and I could go right on if I was ready. I’m going again in June and was planning to just try to get a tee time the day of in case I get on the Old Course, but maybe I need to rethink that strategy if I won’t be able to walk up and get on any of the other St. Andrews courses. Did you try to get any tee times the day before? When trying to move around tee times this summer, the guy I spoke with said they release additional New Course tee times the day before play. 

 

I think maybe it's a bit of "luck of the draw" for singles, but I didn't have trouble getting on, either.  The Jubilee was fully booked when I went (8:30ish?) and I had to wait about 30-40 minutes for a few groups of R&A members to go off of the New, but I got slotted in with another twosome and a single without much fuss.

[Greg_egg]

Do you enter the single ballot for a tee time on a Monday, on Saturday?

[dmbolp]

6 hours ago, Greg_egg said:

Do you enter the single ballot for a tee time on a Monday, on Saturday?

 

Sunday

[dmbolp]

Data Point:  Today MON 4/14 TOC went up to 340 pounds for the summer, from 225 shoulder season yesterday.  So we thought the past few days would be tough to win the ballot as it was relatively "cheap":

 

- On WED 10/9 entered twosome for FRI 10/11 - denied

 

- THUR 10/10 entered twosome for SAT 10/12 - denied

 

- THUR 10/10 buddy entered single for FRI 10/11 - #11 THUR evening, got down to #8, woke up to #6, hung out at starter house in the AM, dropped to #4.  Then there was a tournament 9am-1pm so told to come back at 12:30pm.  Came back and # kept dropping 4-3-2-1.  Got on with a 1:10 threesome.  Unfortunately #2 behind us never made it out on THUR, but they told him to come back at 7am next morning and they put him out.

 

-FRI 10/11 buddy entered single for SAT 10/12 - Got email FRI evening for a 1:30 time, but didn't see the email right away, got another email later that evening for 2:50 and accepted it.

 

-FRI 10/11 I entered single for SAT 10/12 - #10 FRI evening, got down to #4 by 8am SAT, then 10:10 tee time with a single slot still available at that time.  asked if my 2:50 playing partner could be paired up some how, "NO!".  So I gave up my 10:10 and played Kingsbarns instead, spectacular.

 

So for single ballot went 3-for-3 on the last two "cheap" days of the season  

[italianstallion]

On 4/14/2025 at 10:12 AM, dmbolp said:

Data Point:  Today MON 4/14 TOC went up to 340 pounds for the summer, from 225 shoulder season yesterday.  So we thought the past few days would be tough to win the ballot as it was relatively "cheap":

 

- On WED 10/9 entered twosome for FRI 10/11 - denied

 

- THUR 10/10 entered twosome for SAT 10/12 - denied

 

- THUR 10/10 buddy entered single for FRI 10/11 - #11 THUR evening, got down to #8, woke up to #6, hung out at starter house in the AM, dropped to #4.  Then there was a tournament 9am-1pm so told to come back at 12:30pm.  Came back and # kept dropping 4-3-2-1.  Got on with a 1:10 threesome.  Unfortunately #2 behind us never made it out on THUR, but they told him to come back at 7am next morning and they put him out.

 

-FRI 10/11 buddy entered single for SAT 10/12 - Got email FRI evening for a 1:30 time, but didn't see the email right away, got another email later that evening for 2:50 and accepted it.

 

-FRI 10/11 I entered single for SAT 10/12 - #10 FRI evening, got down to #4 by 8am SAT, then 10:10 tee time with a single slot still available at that time.  asked if my 2:50 playing partner could be paired up some how, "NO!".  So I gave up my 10:10 and played Kingsbarns instead, spectacular.

 

So for single ballot went 3-for-3 on the last two "cheap" days of the season  

I think that tracks with what people were posting around this time last year. It was the high season that it seemed people had very low odds of getting out. So the moral the story is, if you want the best chance, play early in the year.