Shaft Tipping Driver vs 3W vs 5W

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

With Mitsubishi for example, standard practice is:

0” tipping with driver

.5” with 3 wood

1” with 5 wood

 

This makes sense if you are playing the same shaft and weight in all 3 clubs due to the differences in head weight. However, most people do something like 60g driver shaft, 70g 3 wood shaft, and 80g 5 wood shaft. With heavier weight shafts being lower torque and overall stiffer, wouldn’t that offset the heavier head weights in the fairways? It seems like if you play heavier shafts in your fairways, not tipping them would keep the flex more consistent with your driver shaft.
 

I have had a couple experiences where I like a shaft in driver so I get the same shaft but in a heavier weight for my fairway, tip it an inch or whatever is recommended and then it feels way stiffer in the fairway.

 

Let me know if I’m completely off with this.

[animalgolfs]

If you play Ping- you can test the Tour Chrome across driver to fairway - untipped( they don't tip fw from factory). I can definitely tell a difference hitting the untipped 7wd Tour Chrome. I've tipped a few fw 2" & yes they feel overly stiffer but tipping 1" seems perfectly fine. 

 

Shorter the club - I tend to go heavier shaft weight. I also have huge hand size & huge wrist circumference....anything light throws off my delivery.

Edited March 11, 2024 by animalgolfs

[Golfrnut]

51 minutes ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

With Mitsubishi for example, standard practice is:

0” tipping with driver

.5” with 3 wood

1” with 5 wood

 

This makes sense if you are playing the same shaft and weight in all 3 clubs due to the differences in head weight. However, most people do something like 60g driver shaft, 70g 3 wood shaft, and 80g 5 wood shaft. With heavier weight shafts being lower torque and overall stiffer, wouldn’t that offset the heavier head weights in the fairways? It seems like if you play heavier shafts in your fairways, not tipping them would keep the flex more consistent with your driver shaft.
 

I have had a couple experiences where I like a shaft in driver so I get the same shaft but in a heavier weight for my fairway, tip it an inch or whatever is recommended and then it feels way stiffer in the fairway.

 

Let me know if I’m completely off with this.

 

You are not off at all.  It's definitely shaft and profile dependent.  Weight can also be interpreted as 'stiffness' too...so there are multiple variables in play.  Not always ideal, but always better to start at no tipping and work from where as apposed to arbitrarily working off the head type = X amount of tip trim. 

[MFBach]

3 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

With Mitsubishi for example, standard practice is:

0” tipping with driver

.5” with 3 wood

1” with 5 wood

 

This makes sense if you are playing the same shaft and weight in all 3 clubs due to the differences in head weight. However, most people do something like 60g driver shaft, 70g 3 wood shaft, and 80g 5 wood shaft. With heavier weight shafts being lower torque and overall stiffer, wouldn’t that offset the heavier head weights in the fairways? It seems like if you play heavier shafts in your fairways, not tipping them would keep the flex more consistent with your driver shaft.

Shaft weight progressions aren’t really “standard”, but more of a suggested starting point. OEM tipping “standards” are likewise a recommendation, not a steadfast rule. They’re also hard to compare when talking about them dependently, which is extremely subjective. 
 

Generally, players prefer a fairway shaft with a heavier raw weight than their driver shaft. The added length and additional SWP from a lighter, longer driver shaft could make the driver feel heavier than desired in relation to the FW wood. The end goal being a similar feel from driver through your woods and ultimately, the rest of the bag. 
 

For instance, if you played the same shaft and flex in both clubs, but went up 10g of weight in the fairway wood, after trimming to length, you’ll notice that the difference is usually much less that the suggested 10g. Taking 1” off a driver shaft and 3”+ off a FW shaft will normally yield a difference of about 5-6g between the two, which is pretty minimal for most players. 
 

Again, generally speaking, the difference in net shaft weight wouldn’t be as large as the labels might suggest, so in order to maintain a similar flex progression (feel), the shaft is tipped to compensate for the additional head weight of the FW. 
 

Thats all very practical in a studio and probably a good starting point, but not always the reality of the situation. Players use different names, models, weights, tip measurements, etc. all the time to meet the specifications they desire.
 

Ultimately, whatever works best for you or provides the most consistent results and confidence should be your choice. But there is definitely some sound reasoning behind going up in shaft weight when we move down in length AND add head weight, especially within the same model and flex. 
 

To think I disliked math and physics in school. If only the examples had been launch angle, shaft deflection, and gear effect… I could have been a rocket scientist. For the record, there are plenty of engineers perusing the tech board on a regular basis and they could probably provide a more exacting, thorough response. Hope that provided a general idea though. 

@Stuart_G or @joostin to the rescue? 

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

With heavier weight shafts being lower torque and overall stiffer, wouldn’t that offset the heavier head weights in the fairways? It seems like if you play heavier shafts in your fairways, not tipping them would keep the flex more consistent with your driver shaft.

 

Just because a graphite shaft is heavier does NOT mean it will be stiffer.  And torque values really don't tell you anything about what is going on with the longitudinal stiffness - which is what you actually feel when you swing the club.   Weight and stiffness are independent design characteristics of the shaft.   Some OEM's will intentionally make heavier versions stiffer (UST) - while others will commonly design the profiles not to change as the weight changes (Aldila + MRC).

 

Simply put don't make any assumptions or decisions on tipping of say the 70 gm version of a shaft based on your experience with the 60 gm version of that model.  

 

For the most part - same model and same use of the recommended tipping will be a decent starting place.  But for the more sensitive players, you really need to treat each weight class as a different model if you really want to get down into the nitty gritty details of fine tuning the stiffness feel.

 

Here are some examples of how stiffness has changed (or not) based on weight change of some older shafts.

 

These numbers are frequency - higher numbers are stiffer - left side is the butt, right side the tip.  As you move from left to right - the more the number has to change to get a noticeable change in feel.

 

 

Shaft

41 in

36 in

31 in

26 in

21 in

16 in

11 in

VS-Proto 60 S	179.3	202	236	288	371.3	505.3	835
VS-Proto 70 S	180.5	204	238.5	289	372.5	516	848.5
VS-Proto 80 S	179.5	204	236.5	289.5	370	518	826.5

Diamana White 63 S	176	203.5	238	289.5	370.5	510	835
Diamana White 73 S	177	205	241	293	372	504	819
Diamana Ahina 60 X	190	216	251	305.5	385	528	865
Diamana Ahina 70 X	188	217	254	309	397	545	894
GD Tour AD DI-6 X	188	208	244	289	366	505	865
GD Tour AD DI-7 X	191	215	250	292	375	519	852
Fuj Matore F1 65 S	185.5	213	250	302	386	546	871
Fuj Matore F1 75 S	183.5	210	243.5	291	371.5	512	838
Oban Dev 6 (M4) S	176	199	236.5	288	383	551.5	894.5
Oban Dev 7 (M4) S	172.5	200.5	231.5	281	361	523.5	837

 

 

Edited March 11, 2024 by Stuart_G

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

6 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Just because a graphite shaft is heavier does NOT mean it will be stiffer.  And torque values really don't tell you anything about what is going on with the longitudinal stiffness - which is what you actually feel when you swing the club.   Weight and stiffness are independent design characteristics of the shaft.   Some OEM's will intentionally make heavier versions stiffer (UST) - while others will commonly design the profiles not to change as the weight changes (Aldila + MRC).

 

Simply put don't make any assumptions or decisions on tipping of say the 70 gm version of a shaft based on your experience with the 60 gm version of that model.  

 

For the most part - same model and same use of the recommended tipping will be a decent starting place.  But for the more sensitive players, you really need to treat each weight class as a different model if you really want to get down into the nitty gritty details of fine tuning the stiffness feel.

 

Here are some examples of how stiffness has changed (or not) based on weight change of some older shafts.

 

These numbers are frequency - higher numbers are stiffer - left side is the butt, right side the tip.  As you move from left to right - the more the number has to change to get a noticeable change in feel.

 

 

Shaft

41 in

36 in

31 in

26 in

21 in

16 in

11 in

VS-Proto 60 S	179.3	202	236	288	371.3	505.3	835
VS-Proto 70 S	180.5	204	238.5	289	372.5	516	848.5
VS-Proto 80 S	179.5	204	236.5	289.5	370	518	826.5

Diamana White 63 S	176	203.5	238	289.5	370.5	510	835
Diamana White 73 S	177	205	241	293	372	504	819
Diamana Ahina 60 X	190	216	251	305.5	385	528	865
Diamana Ahina 70 X	188	217	254	309	397	545	894
GD Tour AD DI-6 X	188	208	244	289	366	505	865
GD Tour AD DI-7 X	191	215	250	292	375	519	852
Fuj Matore F1 65 S	185.5	213	250	302	386	546	871
Fuj Matore F1 75 S	183.5	210	243.5	291	371.5	512	838
Oban Dev 6 (M4) S	176	199	236.5	288	383	551.5	894.5
Oban Dev 7 (M4) S	172.5	200.5	231.5	281	361	523.5	837

 

 

Thank you for the detailed reply. So the different columns are what the frequency of the shaft is as your get further away from the butt section?

[Stuart_G]

35 minutes ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

Thank you for the detailed reply. So the different columns are what the frequency of the shaft is as your get further away from the butt section?

 

Yes they are frequencies.   The distances  (e.g. 41", 36", 31", ...) are distances from the tip.     So the first 41" column is the very butt of the shaft.  The last column - 11" - is the very tip.

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

With Mitsubishi for example, standard practice is:

0” tipping with driver

.5” with 3 wood

1” with 5 wood

 

This makes sense if you are playing the same shaft and weight in all 3 clubs due to the differences in head weight. However, most people do something like 60g driver shaft, 70g 3 wood shaft, and 80g 5 wood shaft. With heavier weight shafts being lower torque and overall stiffer, wouldn’t that offset the heavier head weights in the fairways? It seems like if you play heavier shafts in your fairways, not tipping them would keep the flex more consistent with your driver shaft.
 

I have had a couple experiences where I like a shaft in driver so I get the same shaft but in a heavier weight for my fairway, tip it an inch or whatever is recommended and then it feels way stiffer in the fairway.

 

Let me know if I’m completely off with this.

My Ventus Velo TR Blue 58g "S" Driver shaft and 3wd shaft are different, yet each is tipped .5" before sleeve, contrary to what OEMs suggest.  I have been doing it that way for years, but have tipped a few shafts 1".  I seldom match 3wd shaft to driver shaft; they have different purposes.  I don't swing 3wd nearly as fast or hard as driver mostly due to being used off the deck.  My current 3wd shaft is actually 78g, low spin, low torque with a stout mid-high bend, and "R" flex.

Edited March 11, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

31 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

My Ventus Velo TR Blue 58g "S" Driver shaft and 3wd shaft are different, yet each is tipped .5" before sleeve, contrary to what OEMs suggest.  I have been doing it that way for years, but have tipped a few shafts 1".  I seldom match 3wd shaft to driver shaft; they have different purposes.  I don't swing 3wd nearly as fast or hard as driver mostly due to being used off the deck.  My current 3wd shaft is actually 78g, low spin, low torque with a stout mid-high bend, and "R" flex.

Yeah I am similar where with driver I am usually giving it a little extra and with 3 wood I am hitting it more like an iron trying to control it. Because of that I seem to fit into a softer shaft in my 3 wood compared to driver.

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

On 3/11/2024 at 5:34 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Just because a graphite shaft is heavier does NOT mean it will be stiffer.  And torque values really don't tell you anything about what is going on with the longitudinal stiffness - which is what you actually feel when you swing the club.   Weight and stiffness are independent design characteristics of the shaft.   Some OEM's will intentionally make heavier versions stiffer (UST) - while others will commonly design the profiles not to change as the weight changes (Aldila + MRC).

 

Simply put don't make any assumptions or decisions on tipping of say the 70 gm version of a shaft based on your experience with the 60 gm version of that model.  

 

For the most part - same model and same use of the recommended tipping will be a decent starting place.  But for the more sensitive players, you really need to treat each weight class as a different model if you really want to get down into the nitty gritty details of fine tuning the stiffness feel.

 

Here are some examples of how stiffness has changed (or not) based on weight change of some older shafts.

 

These numbers are frequency - higher numbers are stiffer - left side is the butt, right side the tip.  As you move from left to right - the more the number has to change to get a noticeable change in feel.

 

 

Shaft

41 in

36 in

31 in

26 in

21 in

16 in

11 in

VS-Proto 60 S	179.3	202	236	288	371.3	505.3	835
VS-Proto 70 S	180.5	204	238.5	289	372.5	516	848.5
VS-Proto 80 S	179.5	204	236.5	289.5	370	518	826.5

Diamana White 63 S	176	203.5	238	289.5	370.5	510	835
Diamana White 73 S	177	205	241	293	372	504	819
Diamana Ahina 60 X	190	216	251	305.5	385	528	865
Diamana Ahina 70 X	188	217	254	309	397	545	894
GD Tour AD DI-6 X	188	208	244	289	366	505	865
GD Tour AD DI-7 X	191	215	250	292	375	519	852
Fuj Matore F1 65 S	185.5	213	250	302	386	546	871
Fuj Matore F1 75 S	183.5	210	243.5	291	371.5	512	838
Oban Dev 6 (M4) S	176	199	236.5	288	383	551.5	894.5
Oban Dev 7 (M4) S	172.5	200.5	231.5	281	361	523.5	837

 

 

By chance do you know if the Tensei series gets stiffer as weight increases? I have an AV Raw Blue 85 TX that I am going to throw in a 5 wood and a 95 TX that I am going to throw in an Apex UW 21*. I am considering going with no tipping on both to keep a smoother feel.

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

By chance do you know if the Tensei series gets stiffer as weight increases?

 

Sorry no.    MRC is one of the companies that has some tendencies to try and keep the profile the same across different weights but I don't have any hard data on that particular shaft it and my experience with that shaft is very limited.

Edited May 27 by Stuart_G