who should go pro?

[Golfquant]

https://theathletic.com/5389954/2024/04/03/rachel-heck-anwa-stanford-golf/

 

"In an essay published by No Laying Up last week, Heck announced that she will not become a professional golfer upon completion of her senior year in Palo Alto.

...

Heck will start a 10-week internship at a private equity firm to wrap up her senior spring, an opportunity that hopefully leads to a full-time job offer in finance."

[leezer99]

So she's not going for that second lieutenant position in the Air Force after her time in the ROTC?

[mrshinsa]

And good for her.  It's tough to make a living as a professional golfer, let alone LPGA.  

[Tugu]

2 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

And good for her.  It's tough to make a living as a professional golfer, let alone LPGA.  

Why take a pay cut to be a pro?

[golferdad8]

Before Rachel, there was Rose Zhang.

 

But before Rose Zhang (and NIL), there was Hannah O'Sullivan...she was a Duke/golf rock star who chose Goldman Sachs & private equity (w/ Stanford GSB/MBA on hold) vs. going the pro/LPGA route. 

 

https://www.seoulsisters.com/players/misc/hannaho.htm

[jt2gt]

LPGA Golfer or Finance Bro?  Both travel the world, party, have nice things.   But playing a game for a living still might leave you paycheck to paycheck, working hard in finance won't.

[kcap]

Working hard in finance leaves you RIF 2 RIF or cycle 2 cycle. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

So she's not going for that second lieutenant position in the Air Force after her time in the ROTC?

Reservist, per the article.  Which I thought was only possible after first spending some time on AD, but I obviously don't know the details of her arrangement.

 

Good for her.  Sounds like she doesn't need to become a professional golfer, and while need isn't sufficient to be successful, it does seem to be necessary if you want to do that for a living.

[AmateurAmateur]

As sexist as it sounds- I have come to recognise that the elite female players I know, heavily weigh the consideration of family a lot more than their male counter parts do. For some of them, a private equity job making 6 figures a year guaranteed is just a no brainer compared to taking risks just to grind it out for a couple million (if lucky). 

 

[caligolfer2103]

9 hours ago, kcap said:

Working hard in finance leaves you RIF 2 RIF or cycle 2 cycle. 

Not really in this case, imo... She's got a huge edge given how elite academic star athletes (not to mention ex-military) are perceived and treated in finance. She would have to seriously mess up to not do extraordinarily well in her finance career. This isn't some rando hardworking kid who lands at a 2nd tier bank and then has to compete with all the other analysts to stand out. If she stays on this path, I have no doubt in 10 years she will be well on track to a long and successful career in finance.

[AC168]

Private equity -> don’t go pro.  Lousy job -> try being a pro.  I’m not talking about Rachel but another good player … not as good as Rachel.

[kcap]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:23 PM, caligolfer2103 said:

Not really in this case, imo... She's got a huge edge given how elite academic star athletes (not to mention ex-military) are perceived and treated in finance. She would have to seriously mess up to not do extraordinarily well in her finance career. This isn't some rando hardworking kid who lands at a 2nd tier bank and then has to compete with all the other analysts to stand out. If she stays on this path, I have no doubt in 10 years she will be well on track to a long and successful career in finance.

my statement was more in jest to show the pitfalls of finance.... but in all seriousness, and I know nothing about this individual so my remarks are very general.  Every banker lives cycle to cycle,  your background may help you get a door opened  but at the end of the day this a eat what you kill world, non-producers are RIFd -  especially if you want to work at top tier IB/PE/HF.

 

 

[ingster1]

Sounds like she may be looking to follow the Stewart Hagestad approach, working in finance and while playing in high-level amateur events.  It will be interesting to see how she balances the two.

 

I also wonder about the impact of her injuries over the past few years on her decision.

[caligolfer2103]

3 hours ago, kcap said:

my statement was more in jest to show the pitfalls of finance.... but in all seriousness, and I know nothing about this individual so my remarks are very general.  Every banker lives cycle to cycle,  your background may help you get a door opened  but at the end of the day this a eat what you kill world, non-producers are RIFd -  especially if you want to work at top tier IB/PE/HF.

 

 

Totally get what you're saying re producing. I'm 20+ years into an IB career and what people don't appreciate is how much of an edge the elite athletes have, IF they can pair the aura of having played high level sports with strong work ethic (which most have or they wouldn't be successful in sports) and a decent baseline of intelligence.  IMO, the #1 win factor in this industry is relationship, i.e. does the person want to work with you. After all, finance isn't exactly rocket science or brain surgery, so you don't really need the smartest guy. And for better or for worse, since I'm not a great athlete, people want to work with elite athletes, in part bc you know they have the work ethic and will run through walls for you, but also because... it's just fun to talk to them and hear their stories. 

[CharlestonReb]

On 4/7/2024 at 9:53 AM, caligolfer2103 said:

Totally get what you're saying re producing. I'm 20+ years into an IB career and what people don't appreciate is how much of an edge the elite athletes have, IF they can pair the aura of having played high level sports with strong work ethic (which most have or they wouldn't be successful in sports) and a decent baseline of intelligence.  IMO, the #1 win factor in this industry is relationship, i.e. does the person want to work with you. After all, finance isn't exactly rocket science or brain surgery, so you don't really need the smartest guy. And for better or for worse, since I'm not a great athlete, people want to work with elite athletes, in part bc you know they have the work ethic and will run through walls for you, but also because... it's just fun to talk to them and hear their stories. 

As someone in finance, I’ll also say that dropping a line about having competed in a top amateur golf tournament at Augusta would probably be very impact to like 75% of our clients…

[caligolfer2103]

On 4/9/2024 at 5:53 PM, CharlestonReb said:

As someone in finance, I’ll also say that dropping a line about having competed in a top amateur golf tournament at Augusta would probably be very impact to like 75% of our clients…

Totally! It is very unfair (lol) but such is life. I'll never forget then the head of our office, who happened to be a huge golfer and played a top Ivy, brought in two players from that school as analysts. So while those two got to go play golf at ridiculous courses with top PE/VC/corporate clients, I was the good associate who had to put his head down in the office and churn out books. I still remember the oohs and ahhs when I did finally make it to a corporate golf event and everyone gathered at the range to hear the sizzle of the ball as one of the kids warmed up!

[golferdad8]

23 hours ago, caligolfer2103 said:

Totally! It is very unfair (lol) but such is life. I'll never forget then the head of our office, who happened to be a huge golfer and played a top Ivy, brought in two players from that school as analysts. So while those two got to go play golf at ridiculous courses with top PE/VC/corporate clients, I was the good associate who had to put his head down in the office and churn out books. I still remember the oohs and ahhs when I did finally make it to a corporate golf event and everyone gathered at the range to hear the sizzle of the ball as one of the kids warmed up!

@Golfquant Is this what you mean about careers following Ivy golf? 
When I was in banking, we had junior banker who said the same thing about previously working at a law firm - he did all the corp events & schmoozed clients on the golf course. He said he played more golf during that one year than being on the golf team! 
 

Edited April 12, 2024 by golferdad8

[ChipNRun]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:21 PM, AmateurAmateur said:

As sexist as it sounds- I have come to recognise that the elite female players I know, heavily weigh the consideration of family a lot more than their male counter parts do.

 

A common theme among the female working poor of the golf industry, not the ones making decent $$$ on the LPGA tour. They beat their brains out, and never quite make it in the boy's club.

 

A quick summary of women I know who have departed the golf industry for a more normal life:

• In her late 20s, a highly skilled clubfitter and college golf veteran... daughter of local popular teaching pro. She walked away the month after fitting my wife, who stands only 4-foot-10. She feared she would never get married and start a family, much less find a boy friend, if she stayed in golfdom.
• A real estate agent, also in her late 20s, who was two years beyond working 70 hours a week at a mid-level country club for low pay. She had just gotten engaged to her boy friend. Bonus of exiting industry: she actually had time to play golf on occasion, something lacking in her country club career.
• A one-time PGA teaching pro, this woman in her late 30s had shifted to events organizing in the catering industry. Her catering rotation included a couple of golf events a month, but golf didn't consume her whole being.

 

Edited May 18, 2024 by ChipNRun
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