Ivy to Pro - golf next???

[Golfquant]

https://gocolumbialions.com/news/2024/4/16/womens-basketball-columbias-abbey-hsu-24-kaitlyn-davis-23-selected-in-wnba-draft.aspx

[mrshinsa]

Basketball is played indoors year round.   Golf, not so much.. 

[Golfquant]

4 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Basketball is played indoors year round.   Golf, not so much.. 

how bout baseball?

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/college_summary/2023~Ivy/draft/

[Golfquant]

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/4/16/womens-basketball-WNBA/

[golferdad8]

31 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/4/16/womens-basketball-WNBA/

Fight On! ✌️
 

What if she had not played w Juju Watkins at USC this past year & not be option #2 (often open), would she have been drafted by WNBA? 

Edited April 16, 2024 by golferdad8

[mrshinsa]

1 hour ago, Golfquant said:

how bout baseball?

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/college_summary/2023~Ivy/draft/

 

Dont really follow college baseball, and don't know how to read the above chart.  

At least for golf, you HAVE to practice turf interaction, and you HAVE to have the FEEL around the greens to score.  

It's not something you can do on a simulator or a gymnasium.

[Golfquant]

4 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

 

Dont really follow college baseball, and don't know how to read the above chart.  

At least for golf, you HAVE to practice turf interaction, and you HAVE to have the FEEL around the greens to score.  

It's not something you can do on a simulator or a gymnasium.

so are you implying that the 3 months of the year (excluding holidays, team trips, vacations) over a 4 year period that Ivy competitors are not able to do this creates such a significant disadvantage that it prevents them from becoming a touring professional?

[mrshinsa]

1 minute ago, Golfquant said:

so are you implying that the 3 months of the year (excluding holidays, team trips, vacations) over a 4 year period that Ivy competitors are not able to do this creates such a significant disadvantage that it prevents them from becoming a touring professional?

 

5months out of the year...

 

In think there's already a whole thread that got locked on this exact subject.  Let's not start a new one.  

 

 

[Golfquant]

36 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

 

5months out of the year...

 

In think there's already a whole thread that got locked on this exact subject.  Let's not start a new one.  

 

 

the teams are playing tournaments Feb to Oct, and traveling for practice and team trips before/after the tournament season ends

[kcap]

I do not think it is the lack of practice facilities or weather but the mentality of the team, coaching staff and academic pressure that really increases the odds of a junior golfer going pro from an Ivy league.   I am not saying it is not doable but makes it really, really difficult.  Most the of the Ivy coaches will tell you, if you wanna try and go pro do not come and play for us.

 

I appreciated the coaches candor during my sons recruiting process but the fact of the matter is that the team is not geared in trying to develop kids who would like to play professional golf. 

[Golfquant]

2 minutes ago, kcap said:

I do not think it is the lack of practice facilities or weather but the mentality of the team, coaching staff and academic pressure that really increases the odds of a junior golfer going pro from an Ivy league.   I am not saying it is not doable but makes it really, really difficult.  Most the of the Ivy coaches will tell you, if you wanna try and go pro do not come and play for us.

 

I appreciated the coaches candor during my sons recruiting process but the fact of the matter is that the team is not geared in trying to develop kids who would like to play professional golf. 

this seems like a reasonable explanation of why past Ivy athletes have not taken it to the next level - although there are some current Ivy players (including recent transfers using extra COVID eligibility to do grad years at top D1 programs) who are changing that trend/philosophy, hence the title of the post

 

I'm just not sure why, if there are Ivy pros in other sports, golf wouldn't also be headed toward that trend

[kcap]

The success rate at even schools like Arizona State which has churned out the most number of successful professional golfers I believe is so low.  To think that a kid at an Ivy school who does not have the support system nor the competitive dynamics will be able have successful professional career seems a little far fetched. 

[Golfquant]

5 minutes ago, kcap said:

The success rate at even schools like Arizona State which has churned out the most number of successful professional golfers I believe is so low.  To think that a kid at an Ivy school who does not have the support system nor the competitive dynamics will be able have successful professional career seems a little far fetched. 

which schools told you "don't come here if you want to go pro"?

 

that certainly doesn't jive with at least 2 teams I know of that have multiple current roster members who intend to do so (including one who went to European Q-school over the winter)

[ShortGolfer]

Uconn basketball is an example of a school that trains athletes for professional sports.

 

 

 

[kcap]

i think your child should have a candid discussion with the coach.  And hopefully they are being honest about it and laying out how hard it is to go pro from an Ivy league.  

[Tugu]

1 hour ago, golferdad8 said:

Fight On! ✌️
 

What if she had not played w Juju Watkins at USC this past year & not be option #2 (often open), would she have been drafted by WNBA? 

How in the world do you know this stuff?😅

[Golfquant]

27 minutes ago, kcap said:

i think your child should have a candid discussion with the coach.  And hopefully they are being honest about it and laying out how hard it is to go pro from an Ivy league.  

it is hard to go pro from any conference in any sport

 

the Ivy League are getting a higher % of top recruits (even in golf):

https://collegegolfcommits.com/2024boysrecruitingclasses

https://collegegolfcommits.com/2025boysrecruitingclasses

 

this is a new development and very different than even just 5-7 years ago

 

I think it would be helpful to understand what structural impediments could prevent a talented athlete who attended an Ivy League school from going pro; I am not sure cold weather is necessarily a crucial factor, given the number of notable tour pros from cold-weather schools like Illinois and Northwestern but also Minnesota, Michigan, Colorado, Denver Wisconsin

 

"limiting factors" for Ivy-->pro could include the following:

1) inadequate practice facilities and access to home course

2) inability/unwillingness to compete against top schools/players

3) coach/school not supportive of athletes "doing what it takes" to work towards becoming a professional (esp non-leniency in academics)

4) lack of resources (e.g. trainers, equipment, travel budget)

 

#2 seems especially relevant if PGA Tour U continues to expand in number/scope, but is dependent on playing in a certain level of tournament or against a field with minimum competitiveness

 

an Ivy coach at a #200-300 ranked school who probably has never had a player who had the potential to even have success on a mini-tour saying "don't come here" may not be a relevant factor imho

[kcap]

 

1 hour ago, Golfquant said:

it is hard to go pro from any conference in any sport

 

the Ivy League are getting a higher % of top recruits (even in golf):

https://collegegolfcommits.com/2024boysrecruitingclasses

https://collegegolfcommits.com/2025boysrecruitingclasses

 

this is a new development and very different than even just 5-7 years ago

 

I think it would be helpful to understand what structural impediments could prevent a talented athlete who attended an Ivy League school from going pro; I am not sure cold weather is necessarily a crucial factor, given the number of notable tour pros from cold-weather schools like Illinois and Northwestern but also Minnesota, Michigan, Colorado, Denver Wisconsin

 

"limiting factors" for Ivy-->pro could include the following:

1) inadequate practice facilities and access to home course

2) inability/unwillingness to compete against top schools/players

3) coach/school not supportive of athletes "doing what it takes" to work towards becoming a professional (esp non-leniency in academics)

4) lack of resources (e.g. trainers, equipment, travel budget)

 

#2 seems especially relevant if PGA Tour U continues to expand in number/scope, but is dependent on playing in a certain level of tournament or against a field with minimum competitiveness

 

an Ivy coach at a #200-300 ranked school who probably has never had a player who had the potential to even have success on a mini-tour saying "don't come here" may not be a relevant factor imho

 

I never said it was a relevant factor.  I just said the coaches outline all the reasons (like you did above) on how hard it is to go pro from the Ivies.  Ultimately it is your choice if you still decide to follow that path (i.e. ivy to pro) or something else.   

 

 

 

[tatertot]

There's always exceptions to the rule. 

 

Zach Johnson played at Drake, a Missouri Valley team in Des Moines, Iowa.

 

But the rule is a rule for a reason.

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, Golfquant said:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/4/16/womens-basketball-WNBA/

 

What's the point of all this?

 

Nothing to do with very talented basketball players has anything to do with golf at all.  Dumb comparison.

 

And it's not a "trend", lol, but if it was, again would be irrelevant to golf.

 

Are you just hung up on wanting some golfer to make it out of the Ivy League?  

Edited April 16, 2024 by Hawkeye77

[Golfquant]

48 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

What's the point of all this?

 

Nothing to do with very talented basketball players has anything to do with golf at all.  Dumb comparison.

 

And it's not a "trend", lol, but if it was, again would be irrelevant to golf.

 

Are you just hung up on wanting some golfer to make it out of the Ivy League?  

lol

 

speaking of talented basketball players, is the women's NCAA final getting more viewers than men's a "trend" HAWKEYE? (i assume you are a huuuuge fan)

 

regime shifts happen all the time

[Golfquant]

57 minutes ago, kcap said:

 

 

I never said it was a relevant factor.  I just said the coaches outline all the reasons (like you did above) on how hard it is to go pro from the Ivies.  Ultimately it is your choice if you still decide to follow that path (i.e. ivy to pro) or something else.   

 

 

 

ok thanks for the clarif

[Hawkeye77]

16 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

lol

 

speaking of talented basketball players, is the women's NCAA final getting more viewers than men's a "trend" HAWKEYE? (i assume you are a huuuuge fan)

 

regime shifts happen all the time

No “regime shift” in golf because basketball players in the Ivy League turn pro. 

[Golfquant]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

No “regime shift” in golf because basketball players in the Ivy League turn pro. 

2 Ivy recruiting classes in the top 15 for 2024 (and #5 for 2025) is a regime change

[Hawkeye77]

17 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

2 Ivy recruiting classes in the top 15 for 2024 (and #5 for 2025) is a regime change

Okay then 

[Golfquant]

24 minutes ago, jayslaysongolf said:

Hate to break it to you but the only people who care about junior rankings are parents of junior kids.

 

End of the day it is a sport if you score well enough there is money to be had. The reality is those that score low enough play pro and those that can’t either go broke trying to get good enough or do something else.

 

no need to make it more complicated then that life is not like junior golf rankings.

who are you jayslaysongolf?

 

no one is talking about junior rankings (individual) - there is a broad trend towards Ivy schools getting better recruits across the board; define the metrics however you want

 

I am merely pointing that out and asking...is Ivy Golf-->pro next?

[mrshinsa]

@Golfquant
 

I'm a bit confused about the purpose here. You kicked off the thread by questioning whether Ivy League golfers can or will turn pro. Yet, it feels like there's a predetermined stance, almost as if you're against differing viewpoints.

 

It seems you've already made up your mind, and that's okay. But why initiate this discussion then? Was the thread title more of a rhetorical query?

 

Congratulations if your child got into an Ivy! That's a remarkable achievement. If they're also involved in golf, we'd love to hear how it unfolds. Or perhaps your children are considering Ivies but also have aspirations to go pro in golf? Either way, we're eager to hear about their journey.

 

In a sport like golf or skiing, location often plays a crucial role.
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/06/24/pga-tour-tiger-woods-jack-nicklaus-brooks-koepka-rory-mcilroy-palm-beach-county/

 

Edited April 17, 2024 by mrshinsa

[Hawkeye77]

It's silliness.  An article about one of the last players taken in the WNBA draft and another player that didn't even play for Columbia last year (again one of the last picked) and yet another player 2 years removed who is going USC to pro as well isn't a trend or even noteworthy.  A few baseball players and . . . that's it.  It's an anomaly when Ivy Leaguers have significant pro success, not a (cough) "regime change".  2/3 of the basketball players likely won't be on a roster come fall and the "League" can only really claim one of them.

 

But it's a broad "trend" and "across the board" --- not even close in major sports or noteworthy.

 

Golf?  No basis to claim because a school has a good recruiting class that the "Ivy League" will become anyone's ticket to the PGA Tour or even increase their chances in any way.  No "trend" - no doubt nice kids and I assume almost all kids that pay college golf somewhere are nice kids but % chances of becoming a pro just because a school as an upper ranked guesstimate of a recruiting class?  Nope. Nothing to do with pro golf or predicted success and can almost bet any amount of money the kids who are already on a radar screen for becoming pro golfers are likely playing somewhere a little more temperate in the off season.

Edited April 17, 2024 by Hawkeye77

[Golfquant]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

It's silliness.  An article about one of the last players taken in the WNBA draft and another player that didn't even play for Columbia last year (again one of the last picked) and yet another player 2 years removed who is going USC to pro as well isn't a trend or even noteworthy.  A few baseball players and . . . that's it.  It's an anomaly when Ivy Leaguers have significant pro success, not a (cough) "regime change".  2/3 of the basketball players likely won't be on a roster come fall and the "League" can only really claim one of them.

 

But it's a broad "trend" and "across the board" --- not even close in major sports or noteworthy.

 

Golf?  No basis to claim because a school has a good recruiting class that the "Ivy League" will become anyone's ticket to the PGA Tour or even increase their chances in any way.  No "trend" - no doubt nice kids and I assume almost all kids that pay college golf somewhere are nice kids but % chances of becoming a pro just because a school as an upper ranked guesstimate of a recruiting class?  Nope. Nothing to do with pro golf or predicted success and can almost bet any amount of money the kids who are already on a radar screen for becoming pro golfers are likely playing somewhere a little more temperate in the off season.

be honest - you spent all day thinking about this response, didn't you???

 

😂

[Golfquant]

18 hours ago, jayslaysongolf said:

The path to pro golf has nothing to do with where someone went to school.  
 

Actually tiger, I agree with you on this - that's kind of my point...and the flaw in the logic of those who are going out of their way to "prove" that I'm wrong!