Swing help wanted!

[slytown]

It looks much better. One simple thing I still see is the face gets very closed and the club gets behind you in the backswing. It's good for the takeaway to about P2, but then you get the arms above the plane very late with a shut face.

 

If the current swing change is working, then all power to you. The other guys helped you improve a lot. However, controlling the face better and getting a more 2-plane swing is going to give you better chances of making good contact. You may have to feel some early wrist set or arm lift to get everything working up more.

 

I can explain it like this. The golf swing is dynamic. For most people, if they start the club back low and inside, the downswing will have the club come over the top. If someone starts the club back above the plane (i.e. Kawamura swing), then the club will dynamically come down from the inside more.

[TheDeanAbides]

32 minutes ago, slytown said:

It looks much better. One simple thing I still see is the face gets very closed and the club gets behind you in the backswing. It's good for the takeaway to about P2, but then you get the arms above the plane very late with a shut face.

 

If the current swing change is working, then all power to you. The other guys helped you improve a lot. However, controlling the face better and getting a more 2-plane swing is going to give you better chances of making good contact. You may have to feel some early wrist set or arm lift to get everything working up more.

 

I can explain it like this. The golf swing is dynamic. For most people, if they start the club back low and inside, the downswing will have the club come over the top. If someone starts the club back above the plane (i.e. Kawamura swing), then the club will dynamically come down from the inside more.

We’re just focusing on his hips right now. One thing at a time. 🙂

[starting-over]

On 5/24/2024 at 9:30 AM, slytown said:

It looks much better. One simple thing I still see is the face gets very closed and the club gets behind you in the backswing. It's good for the takeaway to about P2, but then you get the arms above the plane very late with a shut face.

 

If the current swing change is working, then all power to you. The other guys helped you improve a lot. However, controlling the face better and getting a more 2-plane swing is going to give you better chances of making good contact. You may have to feel some early wrist set or arm lift to get everything working up more.

 

I can explain it like this. The golf swing is dynamic. For most people, if they start the club back low and inside, the downswing will have the club come over the top. If someone starts the club back above the plane (i.e. Kawamura swing), then the club will dynamically come down from the inside more.

 

@slytown Thank you for the feedback! This is something that has become glaringly obvious since I started filming my swing. I think it's something I've unknowingly done for the last 15+ years, and is potentially a result of not trusting myself to square the clubface with my forearms, wrists, hands, or a combination of them. I actually think this is related to the fact that, up until 2 days ago, I was completely unaware of the swing path face angle relationship and how it dictates shot shape...

 

I hit a bunch of balls with a trackman 2 days ago and was astounded when I realized positive swing path + smaller face angle produces a draw shot shape, but a push draw (what I've been striving for) requires the face to still be open relative to the target) I know this is common knowledge, but it's the first time it actually registered with me. Once I understood that I just told myself "hey dude, swing to the right and don't worry about keeping the clubface open because it SHOULD be open". I was probably hitting 90% perfect push draws to target once that was my focus.

 

For reference, here are a couple swings from that trackman visit. They are both consistent with the majority of my results after realizing the above: club path +5ish, face angle +2.5ish.

       

Now this leads me to - clearly in these clips I'm still extremely closed throughout my backswing, and then I must reverse it somewhere to compensate and achieve my slightly open clubface at impact. This is something I want to explore fixing, as I would obviously want to set myself up for my ideal impact conditions rather than compensate along the way to get there. In the past I've tried focusing on positions to keep the toe up etc., but I just can't do it even at half speed. Which leads me again to...

 

I've recently come across MDLT threads and videos, and something he preached resonated with me - place the club with both hands above the right shoulder. I have not yet tested this out swinging at an actual ball, but I did do some mirror work and I noticed that when I throw everything else out and just do this...I end up with what seems to be a solid backswing where the clubface stays square throughout.

 

Is this something I should pursue? Do you have any other suggestions for keeping the clubface more open throughout? Should I trust my extremely small sample size results after putting into practice my newfound swing conditions findings? I have a theory that if I can nail a backswing + consistent path/face conditions, my body will react accordingly and fall into place. Let me know what you think!

 

@TheDeanAbides nothing to see here, please avert your eyes from the above. This is me going down a rabbit hole for my own morbid curiosity. I promise if it doesn't work out I'm back to "it's all in the hips". And for additional context, the trackman swings shared above were solely focused on in to out with slightly open face. I know my butt is "coming off the wall"!

Edited May 25, 2024 by starting-over

[TheDeanAbides]

I’m out. 

[starting-over]

13 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I’m out. 

 

I really appreciate your time and patience. Strangers helping strangers is pretty cool, I definitely don't take it lightly.

 

I'm just trying to learn as much as possible in this process. Trying different approaches to find what works best for me is how I personally do that best. I realize that's not everyone's process, so I apologize if I came off anyway other than appreciative. Cheers!

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, starting-over said:

 

I really appreciate your time and patience. Strangers helping strangers is pretty cool, I definitely don't take it lightly.

 

I'm just trying to learn as much as possible in this process. Trying different approaches to find what works best for me is how I personally do that best. I realize that's not everyone's process, so I apologize if I came off anyway other than appreciative. Cheers!

I don’t think that you lack appreciation - just focus. This isn’t the best way to learn a golf swing, and it’s certainly not the way any good player learns. You can’t jump around trying something different every other day, buddy. 
 

And for that reason I’m out. Enjoy your golf. 🙂

[starting-over]

 

 

 

2 more swings to add to the vault. This is where I'm at now. My swing thoughts:

 

1. toss the club back to a position where I feel comfortable coming from the inside

2. keep pressure on inside ball of trail foot while I'm tossing back

3. swing from in to out

4. keep my head behind the ball

 

For me #1, 3, and 4 are the easiest and most repeatable way for me to not chop across the ball. #2 is helping me to be a bit more stable.

Edited July 26, 2024 by starting-over

[starting-over]

   

Trying to:

 

* keep my butt against the wall, mostly by thinking about a small squat and turn of lower body in transition

* trust my release through impact

Edited July 29, 2024 by starting-over
spelling

[starting-over]

Sorry for blurry shot here, but I think you get the picture. More of the same regarding focus of sitting down before backswing is complete/in transition while trusting my release through impact:

 

[slytown]

I still see zero changes so far. Sorry @TheDeanAbides gave up on you. Haha.

 

The swing is near enough the same. You gotta get that clubhead working up early. Sucking that club inside is causing so many problems.

 

I found a Dan Whittaker video that explains the importance of the early wrist set well here in a lesson. Work on just setting the wrists up early and see if you can incorporate it. Honestly, if you can't do this move, all the practice is irrelevant.

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, slytown said:

I still see zero changes so far. Sorry @TheDeanAbides gave up on you. Haha.

 

The swing is near enough the same. You gotta get that clubhead working up early. Sucking that club inside is causing so many problems.

 

I found a Dan Whittaker video that explains the importance of the early wrist set well here in a lesson. Work on just setting the wrists up early and see if you can incorporate it. Honestly, if you can't do this move, all the practice is irrelevant.

 

 

Yeah, I have to manage my available energy very carefully or I'll never be able to play again, so...

 

[starting-over]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:33 AM, slytown said:

I still see zero changes so far. Sorry @TheDeanAbides gave up on you. Haha.

 

The swing is near enough the same. You gotta get that clubhead working up early. Sucking that club inside is causing so many problems.

 

I found a Dan Whittaker video that explains the importance of the early wrist set well here in a lesson. Work on just setting the wrists up early and see if you can incorporate it. Honestly, if you can't do this move, all the practice is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Thanks for keeping the faith @slytown. Haven't had a ton of time lately, but still looking to get myself going in the right direction. Here is a good strike on a swing where I was really focused on getting the club vertical early:

 

  

 

Am I on the right track here?

 

I will admit that after looking at this swing vs. the video you posted, I'm realizing I may have been focusing too much on the wrist hinge (of both wrists) and not enough on the trail wrist extension/lead wrist flexion. 

 

Curious to hear your thoughts!

[starting-over]

Maybe a better attempt here, focusing on setting my trail wrist into extension AND hinging to get the club vertical:

 

 

 

[starting-over]

Finally, an attempt at a non-full swing NTC. Since purchasing @MonteScheinblum NTC at the start of my journey, I've attempted the feels a few different times to no avail. I watch Monte and others make these movements and it makes sense how it translates to an actual swing when done at a normal swing speed. When I attempt, I feel rigid, powerless, and like I'm trying to force the club into places it doesn't want to go. I don't feel any sort of tempo, rhythm, etc.

 

I've never actively used my wrists in a swing like NTC prescribes. It's such a foreign concept to me that it feels like I have to be doing it wrong. Curious if any NTC experts care to weigh in on my commentary about NTC, and my attempt here:

 

 

 

 

[slytown]

1 hour ago, starting-over said:

Finally, an attempt at a non-full swing NTC. Since purchasing @MonteScheinblum NTC at the start of my journey, I've attempted the feels a few different times to no avail. I watch Monte and others make these movements and it makes sense how it translates to an actual swing when done at a normal swing speed. When I attempt, I feel rigid, powerless, and like I'm trying to force the club into places it doesn't want to go. I don't feel any sort of tempo, rhythm, etc.

 

I've never actively used my wrists in a swing like NTC prescribes. It's such a foreign concept to me that it feels like I have to be doing it wrong. Curious if any NTC experts care to weigh in on my commentary about NTC, and my attempt here:

 

 

 

 

 

Its much better yes. The wrist hinge is quite excessive though.

 

Everyone hinges thesir wrists at different points in the swing, but the most inportant thing is moving the club up on the proper plane, which u are doing now.

 

For example, I have a pretty late wrist hinge. They way I get the club up the plane is mostly with tilt.

 

Everything else looks pretty good though.

[starting-over]

After a long hiatus, I wanted to share a swing update. After ignoring my lower body for most of my golf life (or giving it a half-assed effort) I think I've finally come to the conclusion that maybe I do need to learn how to keep my butt against the wall. The attached swing is what happens when I put my focus on sitting/squatting a little in transition, which seems to accomplish that. Currently I need my upper body and accompanying extremities to mostly go along for the ride so that I can make this happen. For example if I try to do anything active with my hands, it goes to s***. My only active thought above the waste is to drive my trail hand down into the ball while keeping my right wrist extended, hence the stiff/straight arms after impact. I know feel isn't real, but it certainly feels a lot less flippy and a lot more pivot driven.

 

Anyone notice anything good, bad, grotesque? The 2 things my untrained eye notices in slow-mo is that it does look like my hip rotation is stalling at P6 and my arms are sort of launch off my chest at that point. Maybe this new pattern isn't so great after all, but if any of the experts here are willing to give my motion another look, I would be very interested receive any feedback.

 

Excuse the shirtless-ness. Was about to go mow the lawn in 90 degree muggy heat.

 

 

 

Edited July 28 by starting-over

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, starting-over said:

After a long hiatus, I wanted to share a swing update. After ignoring my lower body for most of my golf life (or giving it a half-assed effort) I think I've finally come to the conclusion that maybe I do need to learn how to keep my butt against the wall. The attached swing is what happens when I put my focus on sitting/squatting a little in transition, which seems to accomplish that. Currently I need my upper body and accompanying extremities to mostly go along for the ride so that I can make this happen. For example if I try to do anything active with my hands, it goes to s***. My only active thought above the waste is to drive my trail hand down into the ball while keeping my right wrist extended, hence the stiff/straight arms after impact. I know feel isn't real, but it certainly feels a lot less flippy and a lot more pivot driven.

 

Anyone notice anything good, bad, grotesque? The 2 things my untrained eye notices in slow-mo is that it does look like my hip rotation is stalling at P6 and my arms are sort of launch off my chest at that point. Maybe this new pattern isn't so great after all, but if any of the experts here are willing to give my motion another look, I would be very interested receive any feedback.

 

Excuse the shirtless-ness. Was about to go mow the lawn in 90 degree muggy heat.

 

 

7.27.25 swing.mov 5.06 MB · 1 download  

 

Pretty solid looking honestly, i'd just be curious how this scales as you attempt to apply real power. Hip wise it looks like all the basics are there, although face-on would be needed to say for sure. No stalling that matters that I can see, just a face on view needed to make sure you're shifting/rotating in sequence. 

The backswing is a little flat/inside but nothing too crazy. You're kinda doing that one-plane Zach Johnson-esque thing that will produce a pretty consistent flat draw if you continue swinging that way and it doesn't get out of hand when power is applied. 

[joedizzy1978]

looking through the bottom hemisphere of your eye sockets is likely contributing to p1-p2.  Tilting your head down would not only help with p1-p2 but improve path and face p4-p7

1 hour ago, starting-over said:

After a long hiatus, I wanted to share a swing update. After ignoring my lower body for most of my golf life (or giving it a half-assed effort) I think I've finally come to the conclusion that maybe I do need to learn how to keep my butt against the wall. The attached swing is what happens when I put my focus on sitting/squatting a little in transition, which seems to accomplish that. Currently I need my upper body and accompanying extremities to mostly go along for the ride so that I can make this happen. For example if I try to do anything active with my hands, it goes to s***. My only active thought above the waste is to drive my trail hand down into the ball while keeping my right wrist extended, hence the stiff/straight arms after impact. I know feel isn't real, but it certainly feels a lot less flippy and a lot more pivot driven.

 

Anyone notice anything good, bad, grotesque? The 2 things my untrained eye notices in slow-mo is that it does look like my hip rotation is stalling at P6 and my arms are sort of launch off my chest at that point. Maybe this new pattern isn't so great after all, but if any of the experts here are willing to give my motion another look, I would be very interested receive any feedback.

 

Excuse the shirtless-ness. Was about to go mow the lawn in 90 degree muggy heat.

 

 

 

[starting-over]

Thank you @Valtiel! I am going to try to sneak out to the range this week and get some proper dtl and face on videos with this kind of pattern.

 

@joedizzy1978 I went down the Mike Maves rabbit hole at one point and I remember he is a proponent of looking down enough such that you "could read a newspaper" if you were holding it, rather than what I do by default which you noted. The idea makes a lot of sense to me so I will experiment with tilting my head down.