Bradley Hughes Golf- Hand Path..Out Is Down. Anyone tried?

[rthrbgolfing]

I was watching this video and then tried it on the. range nd it produced some decent results. The issue is I don't really understand how moving your hands out won't lead to an OTT move. Has anyone studied or tried this?

 

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, rthrbgolfing said:

I was watching this video and then tried it on the. range nd it produced some decent results. The issue is I don't really understand how moving your hands out won't lead to an OTT move. Has anyone studied or tried this?

 

I’ve never seen this person before. But. This has always been how I’ve swung a club. 
 

 

you won’t go over the top unless you spin your hips out - open too soon. You have to think pressure up on the lead leg in the down swing as you release. This will keep the hips closed another 1/4 second.   Path will remain neutral unless you spin out and take the path left.  From my experience.  

[johnrobison]

I was certain this video had been posted and discussed recently but I can't find the topic anywhere.

 

For me, this feel is a death move. I feel almost the opposite - like my hands are going away from the target line - and if they go toward it, they get WAY out. If I'm not mistaken, most good players have a steeper (more downward) hand path on the downswing than your average golfer. IMO, if you give this feel to 10 random people on the practice range, 9 of them will end up in a worse position than they already were.

 

Having said that... I'm not an instructor and there are some good ones here who perhaps have a different experience with it.

[KD1]

I've been going down the hand path rabbit hole for the last week and I'm loving it! I have not seen this video though.

 

"Out is down"... I think what he's getting at here is that because your tilted/side bent, bring the hands out relative to your chest will in reality bring them down for you. If you try to bring them "down" then it's too much. This is a feel vs real thing. And I imagine how much out and down is a match up for however much bends and tilts you have... For me, I'm happily feeling hands down at the moment (also keeping back to the target).

 

You're not over the top because you're immediately bringing the hands back up and in while kicking the clubhead down and out inside the target line. I feel the handle at its lowest point, and closest to the target line, when the hands get in front of my trail thigh from the face on view. After that my pivot (lead hip moving back out of the way) carries the handle up and in and the wrists allow the club head to kick out to the ball.

Edited May 3, 2024 by KD1

[ChrisSP]

I've taken in-person lessons with Bradley and am a big fan of what he teaches and how he teaches. I think the two videos I added in this post in addition to the one you posted will help make sense of his thoughts on the best way to get to impact and not get steep or over the top while allowing for a more natural release and pivot. His approach might not be for everyone but I watched a lot of his videos before I went to see him and they always resonated with me. 

 

 

 

 

[Geomane]

This is very similar to the video I recently posted:

 

 

These videos are sort of my swing thought to shallow the club. Left elbow out, right elbow tucked. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2024 by Geomane

[Rapidcat]

On 5/4/2024 at 3:00 AM, bladehunter said:

I’ve never seen this person before. But. This has always been how I’ve swung a club. 
 

 

you won’t go over the top unless you spin your hips out - open too soon. You have to think pressure up on the lead leg in the down swing as you release. This will keep the hips closed another 1/4 second.   Path will remain neutral unless you spin out and take the path left.  From my experience.  

 

An Aussie, Bradley was a decent touring pro for some years, played over 200 PGAT events with a few 2nd places but no victories.

 

A short bio:

 

Carved out a career now as a decent teacher, check his website out, has some very clear views about the golf swing, blamed some erroneous instruction for having a -ve impact on his game. Thinks modern clubs are too light and upright.

 

We played at the same club (Kingswood) in Melbourne for a couple of years in the 1980's, he was the best player in our pennant squad, I was the worst.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2024 by Rapidcat

[Valtiel]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:06 PM, johnrobison said:

 If I'm not mistaken, most good players have a steeper (more downward) hand path on the downswing than your average golfer. 

Flip that, per the thread Geomane posted above. Hand path coming down is basically always flatter than going back, virtually no pros have their hands coming down steeper. This could be a mixup of terms however and we’re trying to say the same thing. 

Edited May 5, 2024 by Valtiel

[johnrobison]

16 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Flip that, per the thread Geomane posted above. Hand path coming down is basically always flatter than going back, virtually no pros have their hands coming down steeper. This could be a mixup of terms however and we’re trying to say the same thing. 

Yes. But I was positing that pros have a steeper hand path down than the average golfer. That from P4 to P6, the average golfer's hands are already going out more than they should be and more than a pro's do. I have no data to back that up 😅

[TexasTurf]

This killed my game the last 7 years.

 

Instructor today asked me to move my hands down, so I moved my hands out several times at first and was informed the hands were going out, not down, and that my perspective of the swing is completely off by about 90 degrees. Which is awesome information. So in my case down is down, and out is out, and this is BUNK!

 

I've met this guy a few times in person when he was here, and he is awesome. Still love him, never taken a lesson from him, but it's not for everyone.

[wasko]

If you get your hands behind you in the backswing then you’re going to need to bring them out before down happens. You’re probably going to want to get that right hip deep also and hold it there while the hands move out or you’ll pull the path left.

[GoGoErky]

10 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

This killed my game the last 7 years.

 

Instructor today asked me to move my hands down, so I moved my hands out several times at first and was informed the hands were going out, not down, and that my perspective of the swing is completely off by about 90 degrees. Which is awesome information. So in my case down is down, and out is out, and this is BUNK!

 

I've met this guy a few times in person when he was here, and he is awesome. Still love him, never taken a lesson from him, but it's not for everyone.

It’s not bunk. The hands do move out and the arms move down. The problem most ams have is they leave the arms up and move the hands out. 
 

AMG posted a video on recently  about this 

Edited July 14 by GoGoErky

[golferdude54]

This makes people try to get their left arm parallel to their toe line and directly over it at P5 with the shaft perpendicular to their spine with tons of external trail shoulder rotation. 
 

They think they’re doing it but they’re really not, they either just go OTT or have way too much side bend.
 

Not one great ball striker who won a major has ever achieved that “hands out with shallowing shaft” position at all.

Closest was Mac with CP but he didn’t win a major plus the shaft wasn’t perpendicular to his spine at P5.

[Simpsonia]

24 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

It’s not bunk. The hands do move out and the arms move down. The problem most ams have is they leave the arms up and move the hands out. 
 

AMG posted a video on recently  about this 

 

This is a really complex topic that's mixing in measurements and feels as well as sequencing. Yes, it has been measured that the arms lower some amount. The amount at which they lower varies considerably between golfers due to the general anatomy of each golfer (think Ben Hogan with his flat plane gorilla arm swing). Generally the amount they lower is what is required to regain connection of the trail elbow. However, significantly lowering beyond that (such as extending the trail arm) too early is also a death move and is what Bradley is referring to here.  

 

To your point most ams use a completely different method to move their arms out. Most ams who hear and try to move their arms out are firing their shoulders too early which leads to a big OTT death move. Here Bradley is referring to the out caused by rotation, not firing the shoulders. Those who feel "out" through rotation rather than shoulder firing are probably the ones whom this video resonates with, including myself.  

 

When sequenced correctly the arms move both down (to reconnect) but also out in reference to the width from the torso. The way I like to think about it is you want to be able to keep your trail forearm between the grip and your torso during most of the downswing. That causes the natural amount of lowering, but also prevents too much early lowering. 

 

This kind of takes me back to a super old Monte video where he's demonstrating swing plane with a tee-ball. That's how Bradley is referring to the out here, essentially showing the swing without the tilted axis. 

 

 

Edited July 14 by Simpsonia

[GoGoErky]

4 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

This is a really complex topic that's mixing in measurements and feels as well as sequencing. Yes, it has been measured that the arms lower some amount. The amount at which they lower varies considerably between golfers due to the general anatomy of each golfer (think Ben Hogan with his flat plane gorilla arm swing). Generally the amount they lower is what is required to regain connection of the trail elbow. However, significantly lowering beyond that (such as extending the trail arm) too early is also a death move and is what Bradley is referring to here.  

 

To your point most ams use a completely different method to move their arms out. Most ams who hear and try to move their arms out are firing their shoulders too early which leads to a big OTT death move. Here Bradley is referring to the out caused by rotation, not firing the shoulders. Those who feel "out" through rotation rather than shoulder firing are probably the ones whom this video resonates with, including myself.  

 

When sequenced correctly the arms move both down (to reconnect) but also out in reference to the width from the torso. The way I like to think about it is you want to be able to keep your trail forearm between the grip and your torso during most of the downswing. That causes the natural amount of lowering, but also prevents too much early lowering. 

 

This kind of takes me back to a super old Monte video where he's demonstrating swing plane with a tee-ball. That's how Bradley is referring to the out here, essentially showing the swing without the tilted axis. 

 

 

Right. We hav yet to see a swing from the person I quoted despite several threads talking about last instruction, some other issues he has with current instructor and his approach.

 

The “X” is bunk for lack of understanding or how to implement is getting old

[KMeloney]

The first video drives me nuts -- not because I think it's bogus instruction, but because I don't really think he does what he proposes in the video. He'll start out in a static position with the club laid way down and his hands out in front of him, and then when he makes an actual swing he tips the shaft way more vertically and isn't out with his hands per se. Also, he's got the face pointing to the sky in the static position, and doesn't in the actual swing -- probably because most of us don't want to have the face looking there at that point in the downswing.

 

Also, saying "out is down, and down is in" is cute and ironically catchy and all, but I think that it suggests that by moving your hands out like that, you'll then to get to the ball without thinking about it. Not only do I think that's not true, but him not replicating that action/motion in his actual swing suggests that maybe you DON'T really want to pursue that feel (even if it's only supposed to be a feel) -- and if that's the case, well, there's got to be a better way to explain what you're trying to explain. 

 

Regardless, I bet the video would be super-helpful to people who are chronically under-the-plane and stuck coming into the ball. Ultimately, if you think of his action from left-arm-parallel down into the ball as "tumble" -- and realize that tumble isn't the same as coming OTT -- then it could be a real eye-opener for a lot of people.

[getitdaily]

5 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Right. We hav yet to see a swing from the person I quoted despite several threads talking about last instruction, some other issues he has with current instructor and his approach.

 

The “X” is bunk for lack of understanding or how to implement is getting old

Interesting take. I like it. 

 

So, how do you get your students from lack of understanding to understanding and then through to correct implementation? That's quite a valuable asset as an instructor. So, how do you manage that on the lesson tee?

 

[TexasTurf]

14 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

It’s not bunk. The hands do move out and the arms move down. The problem most ams have is they leave the arms up and move the hands out. 
 

AMG posted a video on recently  about this 

Thanks. What would recommend for those that leave the arms up and drop the hands in? The answer I was given was to float load, push the handle down, and stop at the ball to release the club.

Edited July 15 by TexasTurf

[GoGoErky]

4 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Thanks. What would recommend for those that leave the arms up and drop the hands in? The answer I was given was to float load, push the handle down, and stop at the ball to release the club.

I wouldn’t suggest anything without having seen a swing. Then issues in the downswing could be and probably are related to what’s happening in the backswing and/or transition. 
 

i wouldn’t suggest float loading. 
 

push the handle down when and where? Not sure what stop at the ball is for. 

Edited July 15 by GoGoErky

[RayPlan]

5 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Thanks. What would recommend for those that leave the arms up and drop the hands in? The answer I was given was to float load, push the handle down, and stop at the ball to release the club.

Gotta see that swing, supes

[getitdaily]

6 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Thanks. What would recommend for those that leave the arms up and drop the hands in? The answer I was given was to float load, push the handle down, and stop at the ball to release the club.

Leave the arms up and drop the hands in are 2 separate things.

 

Leave the arms up is a sequence issue. Dropping the hands in is a hand path (potential) issue. 

 

For Leave the arms up...do the pump drill where you restrict hip turn while you pull the arms down. It goes, from p4

 

1. No hips turn, arms down to p5 or p6

2. Return to p4

3. No hips, arms down to p5 or p6

4. Return to p4

5. Swing to finish 

 

Do that over and over and over and gradually add speed to #5.

 

Hands in....it may be an issue and it may not. Really depends on where your hands are at p4, your desired shot shape, and what your path data looks like. 

[Celeras]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:13 PM, Valtiel said:

Flip that, per the thread Geomane posted above. Hand path coming down is basically always flatter than going back, virtually no pros have their hands coming down steeper. This could be a mixup of terms however and we’re trying to say the same thing. 

 

The graphic at the end of this video seems to suggest otherwise?

 

 

[edit] oops didn't realize this was a necro'd post.

Edited July 15 by Celeras

[sundaypins]

On 7/14/2025 at 12:41 AM, TexasTurf said:

... but it's not for everyone.

 

That true for all games I would think.

 

 

[Hidraw]

With the traditional golf posture, forget about the ball and with left arm only swing, the most powerful swing is when the left arm the hands and the club moving in the plane at the shoulder level like a helicopter rotor, yes?

This is where the left side generates the flailing/whipping action from the ground up.

But of course, with the left shoulder being so high, the most powerful swing with the left side only would be too high and miss the ball.
Tilting the spline helps somewhat.
And extending the right arm to lower the hands can certainly help.

The spline tilting is fundamental for the flailing/whipping action of the left side.

 

Extending the right arm provides a one-way control about the height of the club head (Bradley also advocates this one-way control).
This is analogous to applying a grinder to a surface.

Moreover, with the club plane shallower than the hand plane, there is a passive torque to turn the left hand from pronation to supination closing the club face naturally.
 

[Valtiel]

15 hours ago, Celeras said:

 

The graphic at the end of this video seems to suggest otherwise?

 

 

[edit] oops didn't realize this was a necro'd post.

No oops necessary, still a relevant question! It's actually surprisingly complicated trying to explain how we seem to be saying opposite things here yet not disagreeing or conflicting, so skip to the bottom "Overall" paragraph if this is too long.

AMG's video snipped here isn't comparing the downswing to the backswing which is what I was pointing out. They're saying "the hand path is steep" and "the hands work backwards" but not in relation to the backswing path. I'll get into why that distinction matters.  I did a breakdown of this last year showing a wide range of pros and their hand paths going back and coming down, and critically not a single one (even the outliers) had a hand path coming down that was technically steeper/deeper/under the path going back. Guys like Rory are *close*, but...

I made that breakdown at the time because there was a discussion around some of the misconceptions about shallowing and how to do it. One of the common mistakes is doing what this video says literally without the proper context and dropping the hands back behind the body and attempting to swing under your backswing plane to get "shallow". I've done several breakdowns for guys that were way under their backswing plane, noticeably deeper/flatter than even the outlier pros due to how they were swinging down. The reason this is dangerous is that the acceleration that is necessary for the hands and arms in a properly sequenced golf swing means the hand path *has to* flatten out somewhat somewhere in the downswing, a move which ultimately traces a flatter line from the top of the backswing down to the ball. In order then to create a downswing that is steeper/deeper than the backswing you need to do one of three potentially damaging things:

1) Have an *extremely* vertical backswing. Like Jim Furyk vertical. 
2) Keep the hands coming down steep the entire downswing
3) Drop your hands way behind you in transition.

Every one of those moves poses a problem, and you often see them in pairs. The one I was addressing the most at the time was #3 (often paired with #2) which is what it sounds like the AMG video is saying this pros does (they aren't, but they aren't explaining why). Now I don't think they'd disagree with anything i'm saying here as i'm speaking to a specific golfer that has an incorrect concept of shallowing, and I think they'd agree that this golfer probably wouldn't benefit from hearing this video and would be better served by other content they create. The overlap with what i'm saying and what they're saying is the point starting at 0:30 about the "back and around curve" and how the pro is not trying to create this as. This is true, and you can see it in the Rory and Wolff gifs from my link above. Not with Tiger though, and critically i'd argue not with *every* pro. AMG mentions the "gradual ramping up of downswing rotation" that then flattens out that "back and around" move and i'd be really interested in debating them on that language because IMO it's a little irresponsible. That "gradual ramping up" is fast, functionally fast enough to never consider it to be something gradual or smooth in all but the most early/out/over the top slicers, which honestly is probably who this video is really for. As I showed in my breakdown, that "ramp up" functionally always creates a flatter overall path of the hands in the downswing *compared to the backswing*. I'm sure AMG wouldn't argue with that either as it's pretty easy to see. 

Overall then I think AMG's video is targeted at the demographic struggling with certain over the top/outside patterns that have a bad concept of where the hands are supposed to go in transition, and they chose to represent the downswing in a vacuum and described it in a way as a counter to the bad thing they do. On my end, I said what I said (and broke down what I broke down) targeting the player the dumps the club behind them/under plane thinking they're shallowing, and chose to represent the downswing in it's full context with how it relates to the backswing to highlight the bad thing *they* were doing. The hands *are* descending steeply in the downswing, but *not* steeper than they went back. You could argue that their video would make a bad shallower worse and that my quotes/breakdowns would make a bad slicer worse, and you'd could be right with both. This is why golf instruction for the masses is so tricky....there are many different groups that need different and often conflicting instruction and the same fundamentals of the golf can be represented in ways that seem opposing but actually aren't when viewed in the right context. 

 

Edited July 16 by Valtiel

[TexasTurf]

19 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

I wouldn’t suggest anything without having seen a swing. Then issues in the downswing could be and probably are related to what’s happening in the backswing and/or transition. 
 

i wouldn’t suggest float loading. 
 

push the handle down when and where? Not sure what stop at the ball is for. 

The stop at the ball is to get the club moving past the hands, but I'm an expert at that already, just in the wrong direction (very much in to out and about a foot behind the center of my body.)  

 

19 hours ago, RayPlan said:

Gotta see that swing, supes

Ok I'll get some videosd tomorrow after work at my local course or the course I wok at, outside of the "studio." I'm not trying to hate or complain on these guys as my weight/ pressure shift has massively improved. Very thankful for them, but we're missing something.

[GoGoErky]

4 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

The stop at the ball is to get the club moving past the hands, but I'm an expert at that already, just in the wrong direction (very much in to out and about a foot behind the center of my body.)  

If you’re already flipping at the ball and adding this sounds like a worse idea.

 

 

[TexasTurf]

On 7/15/2025 at 5:15 AM, RayPlan said:

Gotta see that swing, supes

You got it. Thanks for the help. 

 

 

 

[iacas]

@TexasTurf, do you have a swing thread? It feels like this will go pretty far into your swing instead of the topic here (the Bradley Hughes video).

 

I'll let others comment, but I'd save more (perhaps) for a specific topic. I think you have a thread somewhere, yeah?

[TexasTurf]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

@TexasTurf, do you have a swing thread? It feels like this will go pretty far into your swing instead of the topic here (the Bradley Hughes video).

 

I'll let others comment, but I'd save more (perhaps) for a specific topic. I think you have a thread somewhere, yeah?

Gracias