Lloyd Jefferson Go - WITB - 2024 Volvo China Open

[jick]

On 10/24/2024 at 10:02 PM, jt2gt said:

Very cool...love the pic with the sister.  Does she play on any tours or is she his full time caddie.  

I just realized I made a new post without replying to this.  My apologies.

 

His sister has a tour card in Thailand and in the Philippines. She's also not a full-time caddie by any means. Just like with most siblings, it's not all the time they get along in the course but she's got game. 

 

Lj, on the other hand,  got his first career win this year with his mother (a non-golfer) in the bag.

 

Many will be surprised to hear this but pros in the smaller tour don't have regular caddies. It's too expensive for them.  They usually hire a local for the week, or carry their own bag. 

[jick]

On 12/20/2024 at 1:55 PM, JungleJimbo said:

 

Mabuhay @jick ! Thanks for your updates.

 

Elite grips are JDM (Japanese), correct? Very interested in the insights that you've been sharing here.

Would be delighted if you can please continue to share.

 

Was surprised to hear that MCC grips are surprisingly difficult for you to obtain, as i see these carried ubiquitously/ seemingly everywhere  in golf shops 

 

thanks 

 

Elite Grips are JDM. Since Lj spent a bunch of time in Japan this year in the Abema Tour, they got word of him. 

 

MCC grips are not that difficult.  They are difficult to find in Lj's preferred color of black/white. And they're also difficult to get free in the tours he plays. Pros are just not used to buying golf stuff, but Lj's MCC Grips and C-Tapers in n his current set were all purchased retail. His C-Tapers for his upcoming set are free though since he is now buddies with the KBS tour rep in Japan.

[jick]

Lj is back in town for the offseason so he should be testing his irons in Christmas week.  So I will be doing the final assembly steps - which is just gluing- in the next two days.  I have been sitting on his set for a couple of months but now it needs to be finished.  It's not just as simple as gluing though - there is a lot of prep work that goes into it.  It's measuring every component individually in every stage from uncut to cut to tipped, tipping & butt trimming, bore depths, and more.  Nowadays, I exclusively only fix/tweak my own clubs - and I do have a lot  and love experimenting.  The reason is two-fold: First, I do other things - being a lawyer by profession and an artist by passion; and, Second, my tools are not for heavy duty use but just for personal use.  They are virtually all manual.  Except for my hand-drill to clean hosels, nothing uses electricity (yes I got a low carbon footprint).

 

So here's a photo summary of the work I've done since October up to this day. 

 

 

These are my cutting tools - mostly from the hardware store.  The orange tubing cutter is used to cut steel shafts.  I have had this for years now and it is not so sharp.  But it gets the job done, especially when I clean the excess with the next two tools which are flat files.  On top is a yellow wooden meter similar to what tailors use.  I use this to measure.  For final club length, I have a club ruler to that which is fixed on my desk.

 

 

  

I always keep the receipts and take pictures of the shaft labels because they will eventually be taken out and removed during the butt trimming or assembly process.  Since these shafts were from the tour van, they have their own measurements down the the tenths decimal point.  Those are not made by me.

 

 

 

I weigh each shaft myself using my kitchen scale which does not have decimal points, but I don't need them.  I believe that a tenths of a gram is just epoxy.  Besides, you need 3 grams for 1 swingweight point.  I also don't trust the published length specs of the shafts, so I measure them myself but I use industrial measuring tape for this -and not my tailor's ruler.  In the black ink is the actual designation of the shaft, and in the purple ink is the iron number where I will install the shaft because these will be softstepped.  I put that tape in the middle of the shaft so it won't be erased/lost through the duration of the process.

 

 

 

While these may all look like one straight black line, those are the bore depths of each iron head measured individually.  They are 1.125" which is shorter than other brands or the industry standard I am familiar with which is 1.25".  So a shorter bore insertion depth gave me a solution idea which I implemented on his last set and I will do on this set......

 

 

 

I am tipping all his shafts 5/16th of an inch.  Theoretically, this makes the shaft play just a tad stiffer to make up for it playing softer because of the shorter hosel bore and softstepping.  It will make me achieve the flex Lj has been using from his current set's softstepped C-Taper X to the C-Taper S+ he has been using since 2014-15.  Practically also, it achieves a tighter fit so the epoxy will have less chances of failure - which is always a possible scenario with a pro's swingspeed, amount of pracitce/playing, and Taylormade's bore depth which is 1/8" shorter than most.  In Lj's current set, I think he's had his 6-iron come loose once and that's about it.  Those things happen and can't be totally eliminated.

 

 

 

I always keep the receipts!  Here are the tips that are 5/16" from my tipping.  They look uneven because of my dull old worn tubing cutter, but that's the cut off portion.  The shaft looks pristine, clean, and even thanks to the file tool.  So the cutting and filing were all done manually!

 

 

 

These are the shafts after tipping.  I marked the new area where the hosel will end in the green sharpie.  This will be my guide on where I will sand the tips of the shafts to roughen them up and make it easier to epoxy.  Don't mind the black marks from my tubing cutter.

 

 

 

Using 60grit sandpaper I just manually sanded the tips.  If I didn't reveal this was done manually, it looks like it was done by a sanding belt - which I don't have.  The tip end of the shafts also look pretty even and clean now, as if they were done by a machine.  Again, these are manual using my file tool.

 

 

 

I always keep the receipts! This time I take pictures of the butts of the shafts I trimmed just to check that I didn't screw them up.  They are not exactly the same length because the shafts' raw lenghts were not perfect either so it already includes my compensation for their manufacturing tolerance.  But if you look really closely, the 4-iron shaft looks like it has the shortest trimmed butt.  That's because if you followed the previous pages here, you'll notice Lj never gamed his P7MC 4-iron.  It was because it didn't go far enough.  In an effort to at least give this P7CB a chance, I am trying to build it to as long a length as I can while keeping the swingweight within the plus-minus 0.5 tolerance.  So this 4-iron when build should play 1/8" to 3/16" longer than his P7MC.  Hopefully this "increase" in length might make him have a chance to game this P7CB.

 

 

 

As I always seek to find a way to "improve" which each build for Lj, this is something I have never used for his before - collared ferrules.  I feel that this has a chance to give a tighter fit and make up for that shorter hosel bore depth of Taylormade, and give the shaft less chance to get loose.  But there is a problem with the collar - it's too long.  So they needed to be trimmed.

 

 

 

Here they are trimmed to fit the P7CB's.  Again, no electricity was used in the trimming an it was done entirely by hand by pressing and sliding the collar to 60grit sandpaper against the table.  But I did not do this part.  For the first time in my assembly for Lj's set, I let someone in.

 

 

 

Meet Ty - a 15-year old junior golfer in our home club.  He already tried buidling his own computer in the past.  He plays a golf set fitted for him by Club Champion.  So he has some fascination with technical stuff.  But just like most juniors in our club, he is a big fan of Lj.  And when I offered him if he wanted a part in Lj's 2025 set, he said yet.  It's just a little part - shaving collars off the ferrules - but it would definitely be a thrill for him if Lj goes on the news with photos of him hitting his irons with the ferrules featuring in the photo.  I am also hoping to make it happen that Ty will be with us when Lj will hit his first practice shots on the course with his newly built set.  Actually Ty has never played with Lj yet and is really looking forward to the day it will happen.

 

 

 

So that's the picture of my board where I write the specs.  The first three leftmost columns in the blue ink are the specs of the P7CB off-the-shelf with the Modus 105 Stiff shaft.  The columns that follow in blue are for the pitching wedgewhich I built first.  It was 463 grams with the Golf Pride MCC grip (46.5g published spec), but it moved by to 468 grams with the Elite grip (51 grams) which I put in his P for him to test.  I also bent it 1 degree strong because for some reason, he plays his P7MC PW 1.5 degrees strong.  The red ink with the G are the swingweights with the shafts not yet butt-trimmed - though already tip trimmed 5/16".  The E swingweights in red are the dry swingweights after the shafts and been butt trimmed to final playing length.  They are looking very even and good already.

 

Looks like the components are ready to go and I will just need to epoxy them in the next couple of days.  I hope to update this thread soon.

[jick]

Here is the lowdown and final assembly of Lj's iron set which I just delivered to him on December 26 at 2pm.  These are the final steps from swingweighing, expoying, gripping, cleaning, and finally the pictures.  For the pictures of 6-club grids, I only put the 4 through 9-iron and now the PW.  Maybe I can do a separate post on that.  Enjoy this post.

 

 

To make sure my swingweight scale was on the optimal part of the table, I used a Water Balance Level Tool to find that spot and made sure the scale would also read a perfect zero.  That way, I'll know the calibration is correct.

 

For the epoxy, I use the local branded one as I found it works best for our climate.  The viscosity is not so good in the steel-filled one but it does a good job in adhering.  Lj never bagged his P7MC 4-iron, and kept his old P760 in the bag.  That one had a stainless hotter face.  Since this P7CB is more similar to the MC, I threw a hail mary shot at hoping he will bag it.  I used the lighter, higher viscosity clear epoxy on the 4-iron so I could build it 1/16th to 1/8th inch longer.  I am half hoping he has a chance to bag it now, because apart from the increased length, there is also that story of Morikawa and McIlroy bagging the P7CB long irons.

 

 

Here is a close-up shot of the cut but ungripped lengths of the irons. If you notice, it is the 4-iron I built the longest over the rest as explained above.  The 8-iron is also built longer because it had the lightest headweight being 2 grams off.  It looks like a substantial difference because it is a close-up macro shot, but it's actually negligible and falls well within the plus-minus 1/8th" manufacturing/assembly tolerance of all OEM's.

 

These are the unngripped swingweights.  Notice how it is nearly perfect E3 forming a straight red faint line from the 4 to 9-iron.  Adding a grip usually takes ou 9 to 10 swingweight points.  There were no tip-weights used in the building of these clubs.

 

 

I was gripping these irons on Christmas Day that's why I am in Christmas attire.  This was shortly after my wife had me and the two kids around the tree for a gift opening photoshoot.  I had to do it on this day because Lj told me he planned to play the following day.

 

 

Lj decided to give these Elite grips a try.  During installation, it is quite easy to get caught up in aligning the grips, that one may tend to forget getting the "stretch" or "length" right.  This is something I am quite conscious about but if I make a mistake or do it too long, it's better to do that in the shorter clubs as that where players tend to grip down more for partial shots.  Notice that the last two grips (for the shorter clubs) are just a few millimeters off.  I can't build them all perfect!

 

These are the final assembled lengths of the clubs.  This is a good reference in knowing how much length the grips add to the raw length.  Each grip affects length differently based on the grip cap designs.  That's why many manufacturers now prefect to state lengths of club ungripped.   An unintended consequence of my taking these photos made me realize at how uniform I installed the grips - aka straight alignment.  Check the angles of the stars and the patterns, they are virtually identical for every club.

 

 

These are the finally assembled swingweights.  They are not as perfect as when they were uninstalled but they are a D4 all throughout except for the 7 & 8 which is D3 and the PW which is an intentional D5 because it was built to be only 1/4" shorter than the 9-iron, instead of the customary 1/2".  A tolerance of one swingweight point is virtually negligible, and pretty good considering no tip weights were used in this build.  If Lj can feel that 1 swingweight point, we agreed to match it with lead tape - but for now he will play it as is.

 

 

I turn the ferrules manually by hand with tissue and a special magic solvent only available locally that is a very particular brand of lacquer thinner.  Manually turned ferrules are not a perfect as one done with a belt sander, but there is still a way to soften the transitions and give a very nice organic look to make it melt into the hosel.

 

 

These are how the clubs look assembled - aka another angle of the ferrules.  These are collared ferrules by the way so hopefully the installation is more durable.

 

 

These are how the clubs look at address.  I'm not sure if the photos reveal it, but these are roughly all 3-degrees flat and the PW is bent 1 degree strong. The ball is a prototype 2015 ProV1x just for posterity.  It was given to me by our friend Hugo all the way from France.

 

 

Finally met Lj on December 26 to deliver to him the irons and play 9 holes with him.  He was quite rusty as he spent the past week or so in bed having been sick.

 

 

Here is a picture of Lj, myself, and Ty - that 15-year old kid who helped prep Lj's ferrules for this particular build.

 

For the next installation of this post, I'll share you Lj's thoughts on the set, the final specifications, other notes, and even videos of his first shots with them.   I'll also post a looking back at his previous iron set and how much it helped him in his past two seasons.

 

[JungleJimbo]

36 minutes ago, jick said:

Here is the lowdown and final assembly of Lj's iron set which I just delivered to him on December 26 at 2pm.  These are the final steps from swingweighing, expoying, gripping, cleaning, and finally the pictures.  For the pictures of 6-club grids, I only put the 4 through 9-iron and now the PW.  Maybe I can do a separate post on that.  Enjoy this post.

 

 

To make sure my swingweight scale was on the optimal part of the table, I used a Water Balance Level Tool to find that spot and made sure the scale would also read a perfect zero.  That way, I'll know the calibration is correct.

 

For the epoxy, I use the local branded one as I found it works best for our climate.  The viscosity is not so good in the steel-filled one but it does a good job in adhering.  Lj never bagged his P7MC 4-iron, and kept his old P760 in the bag.  That one had a stainless hotter face.  Since this P7CB is more similar to the MC, I threw a hail mary shot at hoping he will bag it.  I used the lighter, higher viscosity clear epoxy on the 4-iron so I could build it 1/16th to 1/8th inch longer.  I am half hoping he has a chance to bag it now, because apart from the increased length, there is also that story of Morikawa and McIlroy bagging the P7CB long irons.

 

 

Here is a close-up shot of the cut but ungripped lengths of the irons. If you notice, it is the 4-iron I built the longest over the rest as explained above.  The 8-iron is also built longer because it had the lightest headweight being 2 grams off.  It looks like a substantial difference because it is a close-up macro shot, but it's actually negligible and falls well within the plus-minus 1/8th" manufacturing/assembly tolerance of all OEM's.

 

These are the unngripped swingweights.  Notice how it is nearly perfect E3 forming a straight red faint line from the 4 to 9-iron.  Adding a grip usually takes ou 9 to 10 swingweight points.  There were no tip-weights used in the building of these clubs.

 

 

I was gripping these irons on Christmas Day that's why I am in Christmas attire.  This was shortly after my wife had me and the two kids around the tree for a gift opening photoshoot.  I had to do it on this day because Lj told me he planned to play the following day.

 

 

Lj decided to give these Elite grips a try.  During installation, it is quite easy to get caught up in aligning the grips, that one may tend to forget getting the "stretch" or "length" right.  This is something I am quite conscious about but if I make a mistake or do it too long, it's better to do that in the shorter clubs as that where players tend to grip down more for partial shots.  Notice that the last two grips (for the shorter clubs) are just a few millimeters off.  I can't build them all perfect!

 

These are the final assembled lengths of the clubs.  This is a good reference in knowing how much length the grips add to the raw length.  Each grip affects length differently based on the grip cap designs.  That's why many manufacturers now prefect to state lengths of club ungripped.   An unintended consequence of my taking these photos made me realize at how uniform I installed the grips - aka straight alignment.  Check the angles of the stars and the patterns, they are virtually identical for every club.

 

 

These are the finally assembled swingweights.  They are not as perfect as when they were uninstalled but they are a D4 all throughout except for the 7 & 8 which is D3 and the PW which is an intentional D5 because it was built to be only 1/4" shorter than the 9-iron, instead of the customary 1/2".  A tolerance of one swingweight point is virtually negligible, and pretty good considering no tip weights were used in this build.  If Lj can feel that 1 swingweight point, we agreed to match it with lead tape - but for now he will play it as is.

 

 

I turn the ferrules manually by hand with tissue and a special magic solvent only available locally that is a very particular brand of lacquer thinner.  Manually turned ferrules are not a perfect as one done with a belt sander, but there is still a way to soften the transitions and give a very nice organic look to make it melt into the hosel.

 

 

These are how the clubs look assembled - aka another angle of the ferrules.  These are collared ferrules by the way so hopefully the installation is more durable.

 

 

These are how the clubs look at address.  I'm not sure if the photos reveal it, but these are roughly all 3-degrees flat and the PW is bent 1 degree strong. The ball is a prototype 2015 ProV1x just for posterity.  It was given to me by our friend Hugo all the way from France.

 

 

Finally met Lj on December 26 to deliver to him the irons and play 9 holes with him.  He was quite rusty as he spent the past week or so in bed having been sick.

 

 

Here is a picture of Lj, myself, and Ty - that 15-year old kid who helped prep Lj's ferrules for this particular build.

 

For the next installation of this post, I'll share you Lj's thoughts on the set, the final specifications, other notes, and even videos of his first shots with them.   I'll also post a looking back at his previous iron set and how much it helped him in his past two seasons.

 

@jick thanks for your generosity to share these thoughts on the process... i enjoyed this post and admire your craft/ attention to detail / helping to support this aspiring Tour Pro.

The Japanese word/ philosophy of "Kodawari" comes to mind.

(I interpret "kodawari" as "having high personal standards ... even if you think nobody else is watching/observing).

 

Sharing here with @knudson81, @Howard_Jones, @Stuart_G and @Valtiel... as i think they too might enjoy this, given their 'guru' status here on the GolfWRX Forums.

Have a Blessed Christmas.

Edited December 27, 2024 by JungleJimbo

[Golfingfanatic]

very interesting, thank you!

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

@jick thanks for your generosity to share these thoughts on the process... i enjoyed this post and admire your craft/ attention to detail / helping to support this aspiring Tour Pro.

The Japanese word/ philosophy of "Kodawari" comes to mind.

(I interpret "kodawari" as "having high personal standards ... even if you think nobody else is watching/observing).

 

Sharing here with @knudson81, @Howard_Jones, @Stuart_G and @Valtiel... as i think they too might enjoy this, given their 'guru' status here on the GolfWRX Forums.

Have a Blessed Christmas.

Nice write up, but i really think both the hobbyist club maker and the PRO player, deserves the job to be done using a better gram scale with 1/10, and tuned tip weights. 

The OP/clubmaker is also about to make a mistake when we talk SW.
- The issue is, grips was not weight sorted, and tolerances can be quite large, so when 8-9 dropped to D3, its most likely due to a grip with higher wgt. DO NOT ADJUST HEAD WGT due to that. 

Measure Total wgt, club by club (after dry fit), measure grip wgt, and distribute the grips to even out the total wgt slope, NEVER MIND how that change return values when grips is on, its ONLY the SW scale that "got the idea that head wgt dropped",but it remained unchanged.

For short,the variables we see on TW progression for un-gripped club, is the same tolerances we shall use as grips, to get TW progression to the ideal slope. If this clubs bumps up and down with plus / minus 2 grams,we need grips thats plus minus 2 grams

i also think shafts at this level should be FLO aligned and CPM tuned. (maybe they was? i used very short reading time...)

END NOTE -
Matching SW values is all about head wgt tuning vs shaft wgt and play length - NEVER Grip weight, so never make any adjustments to SW AFTER grips is on (due to grip wgt tolerances). 

 

Except from that, great job, and way better than many Tour vans. so when i make this comment, its because the rest of the job holds a level where this small details is missing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jick]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Nice write up, but i really think both the hobbyist club maker and the PRO player, deserves the job to be done using a better gram scale with 1/10, and tuned tip weights. 

The OP/clubmaker is also about to make a mistake when we talk SW.
- The issue is, grips was not weight sorted, and tolerances can be quite large, so when 8-9 dropped to D3, its most likely due to a grip with higher wgt. DO NOT ADJUST HEAD WGT due to that. 

Measure Total wgt, club by club (after dry fit), measure grip wgt, and distribute the grips to even out the total wgt slope, NEVER MIND how that change return values when grips is on, its ONLY the SW scale that "got the idea that head wgt dropped",but it remained unchanged.

For short,the variables we see on TW progression for un-gripped club, is the same tolerances we shall use as grips, to get TW progression to the ideal slope. If this clubs bumps up and down with plus / minus 2 grams,we need grips thats plus minus 2 grams

i also think shafts at this level should be FLO aligned and CPM tuned. (maybe they was? i used very short reading time...)

END NOTE -
Matching SW values is all about head wgt tuning vs shaft wgt and play length - NEVER Grip weight, so never make any adjustments to SW AFTER grips is on (due to grip wgt tolerances). 

 

Except from that, great job, and way better than many Tour vans. so when i make this comment, its because the rest of the job holds a level where this small details is missing. 

 

Can I just preface this that I really really appreciate you taking time to write all of this up.  It means a lot!  Allow me to address (not refute) your points (all valid) one by one.  

 

You got the term right, I have been a "hobbyist club maker" for over 20 years now - never formally trained.  And true to it being a hobby and pastime, I am happy with my kitchen scale.  All the work I do are for my own clubs and enjoyment, not for anyone else.  Lj is just the one and only singular exception.  There are a couple of others here in our tiny little island of Cebu, Philippines who have much better equipment than me (think belt sander, rotary shaft cutter) and who are potentially better suited to the task than I am.  It just so happens Lj keeps asking me to build for him like I have done since he was in high school.  I do it all for free and it is not easy for me to do having to deal with a newborn and 3-year old, and juggle it with being a practicing lawyer.  But I just cannot refuse him and I do it all for free.

 

He had 7 clubs to build and only 10 of those grips so it wasn't much to choose from.  And all the grips I got weighed exactly 52 grams - none were off (again I don't have a 1/10 scale).  To me, the issue with the 8-iron is the headweight.  7-8-9 were 272-278-287 in weight, which means the 8 was too light, too far in weight to the 9, or too near in weight to the 7.  We are just talking about 1.5 to 2 grams off here, which actually is exactly 1 swingweight point.  That is why I kept it at D3.  Lj's clubs have always been plus-minus 1 and he has never complained about any being too light or too heavy.  If and when he does, 1 strip of lead tape will easily bump it up to D4.

 

As for FLO and CPM, if I don't even have a belt sander or rotary cutter - with more reason I won't have those tools.  So that is not going to happen.  Lj never sought those things anyway all those years.  Also the total overall weight progression is a uniform 7 grams throughout all the 6 clubs in the bag (425-431*-439-446-453-460), except for the 5-iron which is 1 gram off and the PW which is heavier by design.  That seems to be good enough for Lj.

 

So for a simple hobbyist clubmaker like me, it truly means a lot to have guys like you write long well-thought out replies.  And I truly appreciate them.  Unfortunately, I cannot follow most of your advice - especially when they entail investing on other equipment (FLO, CPM, 1/10 scale) for the simple reason that I am just a hobbyist.  As for "tuned tip weights", ever since Lj was a kid we always sort of agreed that no tip weights in his clubs - so no need to rock that boat now. If there is a problem, it is with Lj because why does he still keep on asking me to build his clubs when he is exposed to so many tour vans and clubmakers who have better tools than me.  I actually don't mind if he goes elsewhere.  But just for this time, I decided to put it all on Golfwrx because I just realized I have been building his clubs for over 10 years and have never documented it - and thought also Golfwrx readers would enjoy it.

 

Thank you for the reply, truly enjoy this dicussion and reading all the comments in this thread!

Edited December 27, 2024 by jick

[Howard_Jones]

38 minutes ago, jick said:

 

Can I just preface this that I really really appreciate you taking time to write all of this up.  It means a lot!  Allow me to address (not refute) your points (all valid) one by one.  

 

You got the term right, I have been a "hobbyist club maker" for over 20 years now - never formally trained.  And true to it being a hobby and pastime, I am happy with my kitchen scale.  All the work I do are for my own clubs and enjoyment, not for anyone else.  Lj is just the one and only singular exception.  There are a couple of others here in our tiny little island of Cebu, Philippines who have much better equipment than me (think belt sander, rotary shaft cutter) and who are better suited to the task than I am.  It just so happens Lj keeps asking me to build for him like I have done since he was in high school.  I do it all for free and it is not easy for me to do having to deal with a newborn and 3-year old, and juggle it with being a practicing lawyer.  But I just cannot refuse him and I do it all for free.

 

He asked me to regrip 7 clubs, but he only had 10 of those grips so it wasn't much to choose from.  And all the grips I got weighed 52 grams - none were off (again I don't have a 1/10 scale).  The issue with the 8-iron in the headweight.  7-8-9 were 272-278-287 in weight, which means the 8 was too light, too far in weight to the 9, or too near in weight to the 7.  We are just talking about 1.5 to 2 grams off here, which actually is exactly 1 swingweight point.  That is why I kept it at D3.  Lj's clubs have always been plus-minus 1 and he has never complained about any being too light or too heavy.  If and when he does, 1 strip of lead tape will easily bump it up to D4.

 

As for FLO and CPM, if I don't even have a belt sander or rotary cutter - with more reason I won't have those tools.  So that is not going to happen.  Lj never sought those things anyway.  Also the total weight progression it a uniform 7 grams throughout all the 7 clubs in the bag, except for the 5-iron which is 1 gram off.  That seems to be good enough for Lj.

 

So for a simple hobbying clubmaker like me, it truly means a lot to have guys like you write long well-thought out replies.  And I truly appreciate them.  Unfortunately, I cannot follow most of them - especially when they entail investing on other equipment (FLO, CPM, 1/10 scale) for the simple reason that I am just a hobbyist.  As for "tuned tip weights", ever since he was a kid we always sort of agreed that no tip weights in his clubs - so no need to rock that boat now. If there is a problem, it is with Lj because why does he still keep on asking me to build his clubs when he is exposed to so many tour vans and clubmakers who have better tools than me.  I actually don't mind if he goes elsewhere.  But just for this time, I decided to put it all on Golfwrx because I just realized I have been building his clubs for over 10 years and have never documented it - and thought also Golfwrx readers would enjoy it.

 

Thank you for the reply, truly enjoy this dicussion and reading all the comments in this thread!

 

Yes i was expecting it to be like you say, but say hello to your PRO friend from me, and tell him he owes you a better gram scale, and a CPM reader for the next build 🙂.

HE should NOT use Tour vans as long as you are willing to build his clubs.
Trust me, quality builds takes time, and if there is anything a tour van dont have, its time....so they are NOT on your level on details, not even close, even if they might have hand picked heads....

Good winds for both of you out there! 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Howard_Jones

[jick]

9 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Yes i was expecting it to be like you say, but say hello to your PRO friend from me, and tell him he owes you a better gram scale, and a CPM reader for the next build 🙂.

HE should NOT use Tour vans as long as you are willing to build his clubs.
Trust me, quality builds takes time, and if there is anything a tour van dont have, its time....so they are NOT on your level on details, not even close, even if they might have hand picked heads....

Good winds for both of you out there! 

 

Both of those would add clutter in my workshop.  Actually I do have access to a CPM reader in a golf shop near me, but I only get the readings after assembly.  I may have posted it in the earlier pages when giving the details of his last set.

 

Also for that scale and cpm reader, my next build for him will be 2 years from now based on his last irons so that's when it will be needed- and that's if he will still ask me.  You never know as he "upgrades" tours and meets more clubmakers.  I absolutely do not mind at all if he finds someone else to do this.  As you can see in my process, it's not easy for me because I put a little too much into this with so little proper tools.

 

He does get woods from the tour vans - never irons because he never changes - and many times he brings them to me to fix it.  Funny how these tour vans can't even get simple things like length or swingweight right.

 

Again, thanks for dropping by this thread.  Much appreciation! 

Edited December 27, 2024 by jick

[jick]

This will be my last post on the irons he used this season since he is about to retire them.  These are the P7MC's.  I built them in the last two months of 2022, completed them on December 27, 2022 (see inset picture) and Lj hit his first shot with it two days later.  

 

Building his clubs since he was high school, including his storied college career in Seton Hall, did not really entail much thought.  But for these P7MC's, the backdrop behind this was a lot of pressure for me because a lot was at stake.  In 2022, Lj was contemplating retirement because his family runs some businesses here and he has a double major in finance and accounting.  He turned pro right before the COVID-19 pandemic, so he basically spent his early pro days without a tour, traveling to mini-tours under all those pandemic restrictions, and never getting a rhythm.  It was so frustrating for him that he wanted to just focus on is family business.  Then in mid-2022, he played the Asian Development Tour (ADT) and finished 7th in the money list despite playing only half the year - thereby earning his Asian Tour card for 2023.  But his P760 irons were getting so beat us, he needed to switch.

 

So here I am - Mr. Hobbyist clubmaker - suddenly tasked to build a set that would replace his breakthrough season set.  And I do know the P7MC's would be very different from the P760's because the latter was bigger, thicker, and had a stainless/hotter face from 7-iron down.  2022 was also a time when golf was at its pandemic peak, all stocks were depleted.  We couldn't get a KBS C-Taper S+ flex that he had been using in his last 2 sets.  We had to purchase online, full retail, an X-flex.  So I had to softstep.  I also got confused when I saw the shorter bore-depth of the P7MC's.  So it was really a lot of pressure.

 

I was with his when he hit his first shot with these irons.  It was a PW, which he pulled to the left of the green.  Our deal is when he tries out a new iron set for the first time, he does it straight to the course - not in the range or launch monitor anymore because it should be a seamless transition.  Nevertheless, he eventually said the set was ok.  His first tournament with it in January 2023 was a local one where he finished second and earned roughly $20,000.  That made me breathe a sigh of relief.  He spent the rest of the year struggling on the Asian Tour and Abema Tour, but not once did he complain of the irons.  He kept on complaining about his driving and putting though.

 

Now, this 2024 was a breakthrough season.  His P7MC's got him these accomplishments:

-His first professional victory (Philippine Tour)

-His first professional victory in foreign soil (China Tour)

-His first DP World Tour start (6th place)

-A stretch of 11 consecutive rounds in the 60's across 4 different tours in a span of 1 month

-2nd on China Tour Order of Merit

-Earned full status on the Challenge Tour 2025 season (DP World Tour feeder tour)

-Earned 7 starts on Japan Golf Tour for 2025 season

-13 Top-10's in 29 starts across 8 different tours

 

Here is a picture of how it started versus how it's going with his P7MC 7-iron (and also shows why I decided to use a collared ferrule this time).  This is was 2 years with a touring pro does to you.  Notice it is exactly the same 7-iron with that small vertical line/ding/scratch in the heel side towards the hosel.  Goodbye to this set that was the most challenging for me to build.  I hope the P7CB's will net him the same success or even more!

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by jick

[J.Bex]

Rooting for LJ and his continued partnership with @jick!  Maybe his success can bring a little something here and there for his trusted clubmaker buddy.  "Hey LJ, Tito Jick's short game is suffering from sanding all those shafts.  If only someone gifted me a belt sander..."  You know, tis the season 🎅 

[jick]

On 12/27/2024 at 9:16 PM, Howard_Jones said:

 

Yes i was expecting it to be like you say, but say hello to your PRO friend from me, and tell him he owes you a better gram scale, and a CPM reader for the next build 🙂.

HE should NOT use Tour vans as long as you are willing to build his clubs.
Trust me, quality builds takes time, and if there is anything a tour van dont have, its time....so they are NOT on your level on details, not even close, even if they might have hand picked heads....

Good winds for both of you out there! 

 

Thank you for this.  Yes, I have corrected many a tour van "mistake" in his builds.  It's funny how they can get simple things like length wrong, and sometimes they are just too trigger happy with the rat glue.

 

On 12/28/2024 at 9:56 AM, joostin said:

Rooting for LJ and his continued partnership with @jick!  Maybe his success can bring a little something here and there for his trusted clubmaker buddy.  "Hey LJ, Tito Jick's short game is suffering from sanding all those shafts.  If only someone gifted me a belt sander..."  You know, tis the season 🎅 

 

I don't need a belt sander or a CPM machine as I just build for myself.  For his currenct P7CB's, I did get to keep the stock Modus 105S shafts and then used it for my most recent build/experiment which were Mizuno blades.

[jick]

After his second place finish in the China Golf Tour's of Merit, he earned a card in the Challenge Tour (feeder tour of DP World Tour).  This season, his goal is to focus there and hopefully earn a DP World Tour card for 2026.  So he is in most likelihood going to forego the Abema Tour and China Golf Tour.  However, his first start of the year will be the Philippine Open - Asia's oldest national championship - which is making a return after a 5-year absence.  It will be the kick-off leg of the Asian Tour.  Then after that, he will play 3 straight weeks in South Africa in the European Challenge Tour.  And yes, he will be gaming  the P7CB's.  These are the specs:

 

# - LOFT - LIE - LENGTH - WEIGHT - SWINGWEIGHT

4 - 22.0    58.00    38.750    425    D4
5- 25.0    58.75    38.125    431    D4
6 - 28.0    59.25    37.625    439    D4
7 - 32.0    59.50    37.125    446    D3
8 - 35.5    59.75    36.813    453    D3
9 - 40.0    60.25    36.188    460    D4
P - 45.0    61.00    35.875    470    D5

 

Here are some notes:

 

*The clubs are 4 to 5 grams heavier in overall weight compared to his previous set mainly because of the grips.  This is the first time he has changed grips, from the Golf Pride MCC's to the Elites.  If it doesn't work out, he has a full stash of MCC's to regrip.

 

*He initially found the irons too heavy during the first week.  I did not entirely agree with him since the swingweights and headweights were the same.  I found it unlikely that he was feeling the weight of the grip as the culprit for it being heavy.  It turns out after his season ended in mid-December, he had the flu and stayed in bed for nearly two weeks.  He got out to test his new irons after Christmas, so his body was off.  This was confirmed when he checked his Trackman and his driver speed was 3 to 4 mph slower.  He was feeling all his clubs heavy, but he has slowly settled in to them.

 

*He felt the flight was a little higher than his usual, so he asked me to bend the lofts 1 degree strong.  He did like the higher flight in the 4-iron and it has an outside chance to make his bag over his trusty old P760 4-iron.  If not, he might be seeking a P770 4-iron.

 

*I am not sure if he is still recovering from his long season, or from the holidays eating, but he does feel his new irons are a couple of yards shorter.  Nothing alarming for him and somehting he can easily adjust to.  I personally think they are not shorter, and his body is just not in tournament shape and it will get back to speed as the season progresses.  That was also the case when he switched from his P760 to his P7MC.
 

*He has not seens or used the Qi35 yet so he is sticking with his Qi10 driver.  Since he will be in South African for 3 weeks, I will advise him to travel with at least a backup driver head and putter because he can't find those things in the middle of nowhere so far from hom.

 

*He is still sticking to his trusty Bettinardi Jam-W putter (going on 7 years now), but is still struggling with a suitable backup.  The Bettinardi with the welded neck is benched for now, he finds it too heavy and he finds the weld marks distracting.  Perhaps what he needs is a production model BB1F or BB8F that will have the tour satin/blast finish for a consistent look.   So my guess is that if he travels with a backup, it might be that Circle T Newport 1.5.  But I don't think his original Bettinardi is leaving the bag anytime soon.

[jick]

Lj will make his 2025 debut in the Philippine Open.  Here are two articles on him so far:

 

https://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/recharged-go-is-ready-for-2025

 

https://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/lj-go-sister-lk-set-to-make-philippine-open-golf-history

 

The Philippine Open is the opening leg of the Asian Tour.  Lj does not have an Asian Tour card for this year, but of course based on his OWGR he is invited to play under the Philippine slots.  He will compete primarily on the European Challenge Tour this year.

 

Equipment Update (Driver):  In the Philippine Open practice rounds, he finally got a Taylormade Qi35.  His configuration is the 9 degree LST.  I doubt if he will put it in play since he hasn't practiced with it.  I will share pictures of the driver as soon as I can.  I'd be interested to see if it's tour issuse serial or retail, and if they gave him head only or already with a shaft.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

[jick]

Been a while to update this thread but there's a very noteworthy development.

 

After having practiced the P7CB  irons for 3 weeks, Lj debuted it at the Philippine Open. It was a disaster. In round one, he missed the green on three par-3's, bogeying 2 of them.  He also doubled a par-4 where he found the fairway. All told, he hit 10/14 fairways but only 10/18 greens to be in danger of missing the cut at +2 72 on the par-70 Nicklaus designed course.

 

He immediately had his old irons rush-shipped to him for day 2.  He hit 14 greens, shot 70 and made the cut on the number by clutch birdieing 2 of his last 4 holes.  The following day, he hit 15 greens but struggled on the greens and still shot 70.  He shot another 70 in the final round to finish tied 47th and $2,350.

 

The following week was a local Invitational event for the top 30 Filipino pros. He hit his old irons superbly in round 1 where he led after a 69. He played the same way the next 3 days but made less putts so he finished solo 4th and earned $7,000.

 

I guess the Elite Grips experiment is done. The differences are just too much for him to adjust to.  It was an overall thinner grip, but 4 to 6 grams heavier than his usual MCC. What's more is he grips close to the butt of the gripp.  MCC have flat butt while Elite had round cap.  So now I already put MCC's in the P7CB's, and because MCC has longer grip cap than Elite - I shaved 1/16th inch in the butts of 4 of this irons. Now they are all D4 except the P which is D4.5.  Now they are mostly identical but maximum deviation of within 2 grams, 2 cpm, and 1/16th" from his P7MC's.  

 

He already did preliminary testing on the newly gripped P7CB's and his verdict is that the weight and look are already identical to the P7MC's. He does still feel the MC's have a little more ballspeed on his punch shots. He will do more testing.

 

If all else fails, he will get another set of P7MC's. We'll see how it goes. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Can't underestimate the importance of grips. For one thing, they're the only part of the club that the player has contact with throughout the swing.

[jick]

15 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Can't underestimate the importance of grips. For one thing, they're the only part of the club that the player has contact with throughout the swing.

 

When I built his P760, I used the original stock Golf Pride TM 360 grips.  After a while, he switched to his MCC's.

 

Last year, when the grips of his P7MC's were so worn, he switched to MCC's midseason - but they were ribbed.  Despite them being the same color and weight, and despite him notching maybe 2 top-10's with those grips - he did not like them and switched to the round MCC's.

 

This year, end of season, he comes with a bunch of Elite Stingray cord grips.  He says he wants it for his new clubs.  Again if you have read all the posts in this thread, I just build him his clubs as a favor because I've been doing it since he was a kid.  So who am I to argue right?

 

But the Elite grips are so different.  They are shorter in length but around half and inch, they are thinner in size, and they are 4 to 6 grams heavier.  Lj also likes to grip very high near the butt - Elite has a round butt and MCC's have a flat back.  So both grips could not have been more different.  Even when I consulted a friend who oversees the tour van in one of the major worldwide tours, he adviced to stick the the MCC's. 

 

Anyway, it's good that Lj learned his lesson himself - and still managed to make the cut in both events.  Now he has a couple of weeks to settle in with the MCC grips for his new set.  If all else fails, his P7MC's are still working fine and probably can be forced to have a season left in them.  But he is a bit vain and wants his set looking fresh, so I think he will try his best to adjust to the P7CB's.

 

Right now, he can get it working the same distance in full shots, but in punch shots it goes too high for him and lacks some distance.  He also says it still feels a bit heavy though not like with the Elite grips.  Now, I don't believe it is heavy because the P7CB's now has exactly the same weights, swingweights, and lengths as his P7MC's.  I am certain his heavy feeling must be the turf drag of the thicker sole - which is also probably the culprit why it flies high for him.

 

Also, he finally hit the Qi35 LS 9 degree driver yesterday.  There is some potential in the flight and distance but he absolutely hates the look. It's quite ironic - he said he won't ever game a Callaway because of the carbon fiber look on top, but now it's the opposite.  Elyte has the shiny black, while Qi35 is the one letting the carbon fiber show.  But of course he will stick to TM since that is his sponsor.

 

I will update this thread with more information, and pics when I can.

[iBanesto]

Great thread and updates. Thoroughly enjoyed reading through it all.

 

Is there a reason why Go's irons are so flat? Is it to avoid the left side of the course?