I think my time with LAB has come to an end

[5hort5tuff]

I was going to suggest finding yourself a nice seemore head you get along with. You can get 0 to full offset...nearly any head shape and weight.   I find they are really good with consistent setup and alignment. Ask one of the guys if you have any spec/fitting questions too.  If you can get your hands on a nice milled version you can get some great feedback too.

Edited May 25, 2024 by 5hort5tuff

[JermWRX]

7 minutes ago, 5hort5tuff said:

I was going to suggest finding yourself a nice seemore head you get along with. You can get 0 to full offset...nearly any head shape and weight.   I find they are really good with consistent setup and alignment. Ask one of the guys if you have any spec/fitting questions too.  

Shopping as we speak!!

[tatertot]

2 hours ago, JermWRX said:

I got fit at Club Champion

I guessed ... and the Mezz 1 Max didn't work either. Sounds like you're giving it a good go.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

15 hours ago, JohnnyHangs said:

 

The putter is not supposed to wiggle inside your grip. The thumbs off is a drill mean to get used to the lack of torque and not to manipulate the face, thats not the standard way to grip it 

Mine does.  I let it.  When I do, it putts straight and very consistently so. 

 

It is a drastically different feel in the hands than the Anser or a center-shafted putter I had previously, whether the Anser had the original ping grip or a superstroke I installed.

 

Probably a case of feel not equaling real.  I've never taken video during the stroke, nor slapped the improvised iPing cradle on it, to confirm the feel objectively, but for me, that's what it feels like.

[Tats46]

I have a stock 35/71 df2.1 and inside 20 feet it’s always been so much fun to putt with and I consistently get comments on how many putts I make in this range…however on long putts I really struggled with distance control. That was until I changed the stock grip to their pistol one. All my issues with longer putts have disappeared. Might be worth a try, cheaper than a new putter.

[JermWRX]

31 minutes ago, Tats46 said:

I have a stock 35/71 df2.1 and inside 20 feet it’s always been so much fun to putt with and I consistently get comments on how many putts I make in this range…however on long putts I really struggled with distance control. That was until I changed the stock grip to their pistol one. All my issues with longer putts have disappeared. Might be worth a try, cheaper than a new putter.

I thought of doing this, because I've always used a pistol grip. I was told by LAB directly in an email, that if I change the grip the balance will be screwed up and I'd have to send it in to have it rebalanced. It'd be $100 and who knows how long I wouldn't have the putter. Their lead times are pretty crazy, so I didn't go through with it.

[Tats46]

25 minutes ago, JermWRX said:

I thought of doing this, because I've always used a pistol grip. I was told by LAB directly in an email, that if I change the grip the balance will be screwed up and I'd have to send it in to have it rebalanced. It'd be $100 and who knows how long I wouldn't have the putter. Their lead times are pretty crazy, so I didn't go through with it.

I just changed mine, didn’t send it back. Note this was not a counter balanced putter. Only thing I noticed was more feel and better distance control YMMV. It’s been such an improvement I’ve got a new df3 coming with pistol.

My DF2.1 with changed grip still spins in the hands like it used to. If you didn’t like it I’m guessing you could just replace the pistol again with a new original grip and the whole exercise would not be too much cost or time.

Edited May 26, 2024 by Tats46

[Ngjg21]

6 hours ago, JermWRX said:

I thought of doing this, because I've always used a pistol grip. I was told by LAB directly in an email, that if I change the grip the balance will be screwed up and I'd have to send it in to have it rebalanced. It'd be $100 and who knows how long I wouldn't have the putter. Their lead times are pretty crazy, so I didn't go through with it.

Changing the grip will not disrupt the balance as long as the new and old grips are similarly weighted. I believe LAB representatives have said the new grip should be within roughly 10g of the old and the user won’t notice any difference in balance.

[JermWRX]

2 hours ago, Ngjg21 said:

Changing the grip will not disrupt the balance as long as the new and old grips are similarly weighted. I believe LAB representatives have said the new grip should be within roughly 10g of the old and the user won’t notice any difference in balance.

I was told it's likely to change the balance, even if the grip is the same weight. But if I wanted to try it, and it affected the club, they'd fix it if I sent it in. 

[LeftyMatt24]

23 hours ago, JermWRX said:

I know the numbers sound ridiculous. It's a short, quirky course where all 5s are easily reached in 2, and a handful of the par 4s can be reached by cutting off corners using mid irons. I had a bunch of eagle looks, and walked away with par, except on two of them. On those I 4 putted for bogeys. Sadly, no lakes😔

I am thinking with 46 putts it is more speed control than the start line. If you are able to get within a few feet with speed it would be hard to 4 putt. I’d take the LAB putter you roll end over end best and then work on speed. 

 

Have you had other putters with more success? What types were they?

 

Also, something that helped me a few years ago was going no site line. I putt with a line on the ball and having no site aid actually helps me. I am right hand dominant but golf lefty and am left eye dominant. 

[dmeeksDC]

IMO a putter fitting that looks at what type of head/hosel/alignment aids the you naturally aim well is better than one that is looking at data on your stroke. If I was “searching” as you say, I would find a top Edel fitter and go throught their excellent fitting. You do not have to buy their putter but you will have a baseline of what you are looking for. The speed control part of their fitting is very helpful too. 
 

I had preconceived notions due to eye dominance, past putters, etc., and their fitting clears away the clutter. A SeeMore is a good idea as well, might help a lot on start lines. No reason not to try one as they are simple to use and will square you up. 
 

I don’t believe putter tech so simply overcomes natural inclinations. It does take work to change and correct flaws. But if a putter is too much work, it’s not worth it. You need to be confident that when you think the putter is aimed at your target, it really is so. Not the case with many putters. If you don’t have that correct aim, you’ll be inconsistent regardless of the head. 

Edited May 26, 2024 by dmeeksDC

[JMathews]

20 hours ago, Tats46 said:

I have a stock 35/71 df2.1 and inside 20 feet it’s always been so much fun to putt with and I consistently get comments on how many putts I make in this range…however on long putts I really struggled with distance control. That was until I changed the stock grip to their pistol one. All my issues with longer putts have disappeared. Might be worth a try, cheaper than a new putter.

I agree the Pistol grip is nice.  I like the 3 degree xl the best.  Bill Presse once said that's really the one he prefers be on the lab's.

[Peninsulagolfer]

Understand, I tried too.  Wasn't for me.  It is very hard to get feel with anything I have picked up from LAB.

 

The analogy I like to use is that in most sports, equipment manufacturers try and get the player to feel what they are doing.  High quality table tennis bats are light, and give great feedback.  In golf, wedges are designed to provide feedback on strike.  The best football boots, have very little between the foot and the ball, generally some lightly padded quilted leather. 

 

But LAB give you a massive hunk of steel.  What's worse, is in an effort to increase MOI, you get even less feedback.

 

PS. And the marketing is so cheesy 

[JermWRX]

8 hours ago, Peninsulagolfer said:

Understand, I tried too.  Wasn't for me.  It is very hard to get feel with anything I have picked up from LAB.

 

The analogy I like to use is that in most sports, equipment manufacturers try and get the player to feel what they are doing.  High quality table tennis bats are light, and give great feedback.  In golf, wedges are designed to provide feedback on strike.  The best football boots, have very little between the foot and the ball, generally some lightly padded quilted leather. 

 

But LAB give you a massive hunk of steel.  What's worse, is in an effort to increase MOI, you get even less feedback.

 

PS. And the marketing is so cheesy 

The football analogy took me a second until I saw where you're from. The feedback in our football is getting your head smashed into the ground😂

[SUITS]

If it makes you feel better I am am bad putter. I had a somewhat eye opening experience with a lab in a store. I couldn’t find a used one to try. I recently went polar opposite, ping my day with original pingman grip. I putted the best I have in over a year on the hardest greens I play this last weekend. Will it stick? Who knows but there is no magic arrow

[Peninsulagolfer]

41 minutes ago, SUITS said:

If it makes you feel better I am am bad putter. I had a somewhat eye opening experience with a lab in a store. I couldn’t find a used one to try. I recently went polar opposite, ping my day with original pingman grip. I putted the best I have in over a year on the hardest greens I play this last weekend. Will it stick? Who knows but there is no magic arrow

 

This is not surprising.  Putters like the My Day provide both feel and feedback.  This makes you better, because understand the implications of your strike patterns.

 

The issue I had with that massive LAB, was that it was so big and heavy, that you received no feedback at all.  In the short term the MOI may help.  In the long term, you won't get any better...

[MiloMalt]

1 hour ago, Peninsulagolfer said:

 

This is not surprising.  Putters like the My Day provide both feel and feedback.  This makes you better, because understand the implications of your strike patterns.

 

The issue I had with that massive LAB, was that it was so big and heavy, that you received no feedback at all.  In the short term the MOI may help.  In the long term, you won't get any better...

If you found a LAB to feel heavy while putting that indicates to me that the specs were well off for you. When you get the correct lie angle the putter should feel "too light" while putting with it until you get used to it.

 

"In the short term the MOI may help. In the long term, you won't get any better..." Why would someone not get any better?

[CanFred]

17 minutes ago, MiloMalt said:

If you found a LAB to feel heavy while putting that indicates to me that the specs were well off for you. When you get the correct lie angle the putter should feel "too light" while putting with it until you get used to it.

 

"In the short term the MOI may help. In the long term, you won't get any better..." Why would someone not get any better?

This has been my experience with LABs as well - if its at the correct lie angle, it should feel light.  Sorry to hear you haven't had a great experience @JermWRX!  One of my friends swears by SeeMore - good luck!

[Peninsulagolfer]

1 hour ago, MiloMalt said:

"In the short term the MOI may help. In the long term, you won't get any better..." Why would someone not get any better?

 

Because distance control is based on feedback off the club face.  A putter is no different to an 8-iron or sand wedge.  You have to develop a feel for how hard to hit it, and feel off the club face is one very important indicator.

 

Seems to me the entire value proposition with LAB is around starting the ball on line.  And sure that is important.  But it is only one factor.  You have to pick a line before you start it on line, and you also have to choose the corresponding speed.

 

When I trialed a LAB the clubhead was so insanely big, and the MOI so high, that feedback on strike and distance was almost non-existent...

[MiloMalt]

3 hours ago, Peninsulagolfer said:

 

This is not surprising.  Putters like the My Day provide both feel and feedback.  This makes you better, because understand the implications of your strike patterns.

 

The issue I had with that massive LAB, was that it was so big and heavy, that you received no feedback at all.  In the short term the MOI may help.  In the long term, you won't get any better...

 

As he says with his G430 Max driver 😆 (please note I do not agree with this sentiment however it is funny you believe it when it comes to a specific putter but not other clubs)

 

31 minutes ago, Peninsulagolfer said:

When I trialed a LAB the clubhead was so insanely big, and the MOI so high, that feedback on strike and distance was almost non-existent...

 

Okay so you meant to say that you yourself would not get any better with a LAB putter. That's completely fine and not every product will suit every golfer.

 

I do not care to defend LAB or any other brand I use or don't use but reading your comments are tiring. It's giving the same energy as the uninformed loft jacking complainers when they either can't understand the engineering reasoning for why different type of irons have certain lofts or they don't care to understand but wanna constantly cry about it because they think it is some conspiracy by BIG golf OEMs to sell more clubs by selling "distance".

 

I respect your opinions which you are more than entitled to but you comment as if it is the objective truth and you don't show any sign of wanting/trying to understand or even consider that your experience is your experience and that everyone's experience will be different.

 

If you are looking for a new putter I do hope you find one that suits you and gives you what you are looking for as it seems many people have provided some good suggestions for you.

Edited May 28, 2024 by MiloMalt

[Peninsulagolfer]

 

5 hours ago, MiloMalt said:

As he says with his G430 Max driver 😆 (please note I do not agree with this sentiment however it is funny you believe it when it comes to a specific putter but not other clubs)

 

Are you seriously comparing feel off a putter to a driver?  Feel is paramount when playing partial shots.  Less relevant when hitting the ball as far as you can....

 

 

5 hours ago, MiloMalt said:

I respect your opinions which you are more than entitled to but you comment as if it is the objective truth and you don't show any sign of wanting/trying to understand or even consider that your experience is your experience and that everyone's experience will be different.

 

My initial post about LAB (on another thread) went along these lines:

- was interested in a new putter;

- played nine holes with a LAB;

- didn't think it could help me; and

- far from being revolutionary line an Anser or 2-ball, I thought it would become a fringe technology.

 

In short I gave it a go, and didn't like it.  Then the LAB-cult got involved.  Seems you can't question the tech, or the product.

 

If it works for you, congratulations.  But I think there are a lot of people on this thread who feel they need to defend the product.

 

For the record, I said the same thing about the Qi10 driver.  Tried it.  Wasn't for me.  Nobody got offended.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by Peninsulagolfer

[ilikegolf26]

11 hours ago, ChrisATL said:

This has been my experience with LABs as well - if its at the correct lie angle, it should feel light.  Sorry to hear you haven't had a great experience @JermWRX!  One of my friends swears by SeeMore - good luck!

And if it’s not at the correct lie angle you can pay LAB a $100 fee to get it the right lie angle! (Ping did this for an entire iron set for free for many years). 

Edited May 28, 2024 by ilikegolf26

[Orchardist]

Here I thought consumer insanity had cooled post covid.

 

Hilarious watching you get barbecued for giving a putter a try in play.  I remember when Nike came out with Tiger Woods ball And the David Duval ball.  Funny sht people taking it seriously.

I wonder how many putters would never have been sold if the purchaser could have played nine holes with it first.  Gotta love some of the golf mentality.

 

[mvvraz]

24 minutes ago, Orchardist said:

Here I thought consumer insanity had cooled post covid.

 

Hilarious watching you get barbecued for giving a putter a try in play.  I remember when Nike came out with Tiger Woods ball And the David Duval ball.  Funny sht people taking it seriously.

I wonder how many putters would never have been sold if the purchaser could have played nine holes with it first.  Gotta love some of the golf mentality.

 

Every time a community gets overly attached to a product it's the same thing..

 

- Someone says they don't like the product

- Community says "it's not that you don't like it, you just haven't spent enough time with it" 

 

Crosspost from another thread, but I owned a LAB for some time (never actually made it into the bag for tournaments and stuff), but here's my take:

 

Owned a fitted Mezz 1, but never made it off the practice green because I simply had no feel in the putter whatsoever, and I found it required a fair bit of adjustment in order to make it click

 

The way I personally see it, when I get a putter that feels like it's "made for me," I never need to adjust to it, because it simply clicks

 

I will probably get crucified on here for saying this, but I feel like half the LAB gimmick is simply going back to lighter putters.

 

The market is just flooded with heavy options, and a lot of golfers never even tried a light putter to see what it feels like.

 

I play most of my putters below 330g head weight (Newport and Newport 2 models), and every time a friend or a random I played a round with tried them, they'd remark on how effortless the stroke is, how natural it feels, how easy it is to get the correct start line and so on 

 

Most of the praise is pretty much identical to the praise that lab putters receive... I think that heavy putters became the norm because they gave people a false sense of stability, but the other putter that is really popular for being stable, and is comparatively light, is the TM Spider

[MaineMariner]

4 minutes ago, mvvraz said:

 

 

I will probably get crucified on here for saying this, but I feel like half the LAB gimmick is simply going back to lighter putters.

 

The market is just flooded with heavy options, and a lot of golfers never even tried a light putter to see what it feels like.

 

I play most of my putters below 330g head weight (Newport and Newport 2 models), and every time a friend or a random I played a round with tried them, they'd remark on how effortless the stroke is, how natural it feels, how easy it is to get the correct start line and so on 

 

Most of the praise is pretty much identical to the praise that lab putters receive... I think that heavy putters became the norm because they gave people a false sense of stability, but the other putter that is really popular for being stable, and is comparatively light, is the TM Spider

 

That's interesting because it's one of the original stated goals of Odyssey's Stroke Lab shaft. Beyond the whole shaft stiffness thing, Sean Toulon talked about how putter swingweight had kinda gone off the charts with lighter grips and heavier heads. Removing weight from the shaft allowed Odyssey to re-allocate weight to the other components to give the putter (1) a lighter, more traditional swingweight with (2) a modern, higher total weight. The lighter swingweight meant better feel in the stroke and a heavier total weight meant high MOI.

[mvvraz]

3 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

 

That's interesting because it's one of the original stated goals of Odyssey's Stroke Lab shaft. Beyond the whole shaft stiffness thing, Sean Toulon talked about how putter swingweight had kinda gone off the charts with lighter grips and heavier heads. Removing weight from the shaft allowed Odyssey to re-allocate weight to the other components to give the putter (1) a lighter, more traditional swingweight with (2) a modern, higher total weight. The lighter swingweight meant better feel in the stroke and a heavier total weight meant high MOI.

That is also very interesting to hear, I wasn't aware of it

 

I guess I should buy a Toulon, because my idea for putting seems to be reasonably similar to his - I keep putting Tour Stability's in all my gamer putters, for the simple reason that it is a very light shaft, giving me more room to play around with weight in the grip (and a little bit more weight in the head - I've gone as low as 300g with a regular steel shaft on a Newport) 

[__jimmyd]

**Please delete

Edited May 28, 2024 by __jimmyd
delete

[labgolf]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:49 PM, JermWRX said:

I guess I was hoping for some magic, but it's just not there (Yes, I know it's not the putters fault). I bought a 38" 71 lie counterbalance Mezz Max and a 35" 69 standard build Mezz Max. Both with Accra shafts. I've used them both for around 10 rounds or so each. I'm having a terribly difficult time with aim, and distance control. Now, I'm definitely not the worlds greatest putter by any stretch of the imagination, hence the experiments. But, I'm definitely putting worse than I was before. Three putts are a regular thing, and four putts happen a couple times a round. Frustrating to say the least. Thinking of picking up a See More to see if it can help with some aim/start line issues. At this point I'm kind of just grasping at straws. Keep an eye on the classifieds. Might be a couple of putters popping up on there soon 😂😂

For whats its worth, I have a hard time Aiming the MEZZ as well. Try the DF3 (not counter balanced).

[ChaosTheory]

 

Here is how I aim my Mezz.  It has helped me a ton.

[manVSgolf]

6 hours ago, mvvraz said:

Every time a community gets overly attached to a product it's the same thing..

 

- Someone says they don't like the product

- Community says "it's not that you don't like it, you just haven't spent enough time with it" 

 

Crosspost from another thread, but I owned a LAB for some time (never actually made it into the bag for tournaments and stuff), but here's my take:

 

Owned a fitted Mezz 1, but never made it off the practice green because I simply had no feel in the putter whatsoever, and I found it required a fair bit of adjustment in order to make it click

 

The way I personally see it, when I get a putter that feels like it's "made for me," I never need to adjust to it, because it simply clicks

 

I will probably get crucified on here for saying this, but I feel like half the LAB gimmick is simply going back to lighter putters.

 

The market is just flooded with heavy options, and a lot of golfers never even tried a light putter to see what it feels like.

 

I play most of my putters below 330g head weight (Newport and Newport 2 models), and every time a friend or a random I played a round with tried them, they'd remark on how effortless the stroke is, how natural it feels, how easy it is to get the correct start line and so on 

 

Most of the praise is pretty much identical to the praise that lab putters receive... I think that heavy putters became the norm because they gave people a false sense of stability, but the other putter that is really popular for being stable, and is comparatively light, is the TM Spider

I think most of the unofficial LAB defense team (myself included) don’t really care if the product wasn’t for someone.  I appreciate different points of view - especially when someone who understands the game at a deeper level than I has significant experience with something and gives their 2 cents.  It’s the subsequent insults - “cult”, “it’s a fad”, “bargain bin”, “carnival trick”, and falsehoods (they pay players, no one uses them) I think are unnecessary/misleading.  And those should be called out.
 

I’m not a member of a cult.  I don’t think anyone really appreciates that phrasing.  I’ve been a passionate, dedicated golfer for 30+ years.  I am a brand—atheist and have never taken to a product like I have LAB putters, 5 years ago.  I don’t WANT everyone to like them, because i feel like I have an advantage over those playing with literally anything else.
 

This is a seriously good product that, imo, will stand the test of time and inspire a totally new direction of putter innovation.  If I help even one golfer see the benefits of this tech (which I have), then I feel like I am leaving the game in a better place.  People in this forum keep me updated of their progress/improving putting since making the leap - brightens my day every time.
 

if its not your thing, fine.  But I think it’s fair when someone repeatedly craps on the company over weeks, when they have minimal experience with the product, and don’t offer any real data showing why it’s so “flawed”, people might say something.  Playing 9 holes with something is better than nothing - but it’s also 9 holes with a tech that you likely hadn’t adjusted to.

 

This is a golf forum, we all love golf (I assume).  I would never make anything personal.  I enjoy the banter.  My 2 cents.