Improving from 125 and in

[ZGriswold83]

For the last few years, I've been on the swing change Rollercoaster. I have been pouring all my effort into a better full swing. I'm FINALLY seeing my changes make an on course difference along with being pain free. It's become pretty obvious that my short/approach game is really lacking. My main issue is chipping, but I feel like I really could use help with wedge approach shots as well. I'm mainly looking for techniques but I welcome any and all short game advice.

[SNIPERBBB]

Biggest thing for me when I started getting better with the partial wedges/chipping/pitching was reducing the amount of lower body movement. There will still be some motion with the lower body but if you try to turn like you do for a full iron shot, sequencing gets hard and El Hosél likes to come say "Hi!"a lot...

 

For chipping...remember you still actually have to apply some speed here. You cant baby it. Another thing thats really helped me with chipping other than using the bounce is feel like you're hitting a draw with your chips. let that club face close. Get a lot more centered contact that way and you dont get into the dragging the handle which brings Señior Hosel back into play,

[kiawah]

From inside 100 yards, what really helped/helps me is to move my weight towards my lead foot at address. You have to find your own balance with this (some people think it should be 100% of your weight left, others think it's 80%, I am probably more like 65%-70%), but it really helps to ensure that you are going to hit down on the ball, knock off a little bit of loft, and prevent you from turning or laterally shifting off the ball excessively. 

 

Another thing that took me a while to accept is that you should not be "going after" these shots or hitting anything all that close to a full swing unless you have to hack it out of thick rough or something like that. If your 54/56 degree wedge carries 100 yards on a "normal" shot, you should probably not be hitting it from outside of 90 yards unless the shot really calls for it. It will take a bit of practice but once you are able to put a bit of a shorter/more tempo-focused swing on the ball the results will be much more consistent than if you are trying to hit each club their "stock" distance.

 

In my opinion, the easiest way to chip the ball is to use a sand wedge or gap wedge and get the shaft more vertical. This will take the heel of the club off of the ground and move the ball much closer to your feet in the stance. Then close the face just a smidge (nothing crazy, just a hair more closed than square) which will help the ball roll out a little more since this shot will typically produce a very soft shot and it makes it so you don't have to use too much effort to move the ball. When the shaft is properly upright, then it should feel like you are able to apply your putting stroke onto the ball. The toe of the club will clip the bottom half of the ball and pop it up in the air about a foot or two high. If you fly it about 45 or 50% of the way to the hole, you will have a realistic look at par. Not enough people try this method. I did it for a while with the caveat that I didn't like having the face a little closed. I have come to realize that it makes the shot much easier. 

 

These are just ideas that might work more for me than for you, but hopefully you find something in here that might help you. Best of luck

[ZGriswold83]

3 minutes ago, kiawah said:

From inside 100 yards, what really helped/helps me is to move my weight towards my lead foot at address. You have to find your own balance with this (some people think it should be 100% of your weight left, others think it's 80%, I am probably more like 65%-70%), but it really helps to ensure that you are going to hit down on the ball, knock off a little bit of loft, and prevent you from turning or laterally shifting off the ball excessively. 

 

Another thing that took me a while to accept is that you should not be "going after" these shots or hitting anything all that close to a full swing unless you have to hack it out of thick rough or something like that. If your 54/56 degree wedge carries 100 yards on a "normal" shot, you should probably not be hitting it from outside of 90 yards unless the shot really calls for it. It will take a bit of practice but once you are able to put a bit of a shorter/more tempo-focused swing on the ball the results will be much more consistent than if you are trying to hit each club their "stock" distance.

 

In my opinion, the easiest way to chip the ball is to use a sand wedge or gap wedge and get the shaft more vertical. This will take the heel of the club off of the ground and move the ball much closer to your feet in the stance. Then close the face just a smidge (nothing crazy, just a hair more closed than square) which will help the ball roll out a little more since this shot will typically produce a very soft shot and it makes it so you don't have to use too much effort to move the ball. When the shaft is properly upright, then it should feel like you are able to apply your putting stroke onto the ball. The toe of the club will clip the bottom half of the ball and pop it up in the air about a foot or two high. If you fly it about 45 or 50% of the way to the hole, you will have a realistic look at par. Not enough people try this method. I did it for a while with the caveat that I didn't like having the face a little closed. I have come to realize that it makes the shot much easier. 

 

These are just ideas that might work more for me than for you, but hopefully you find something in here that might help you. Best of luck

Loving all of this. I have been trying the putting stroke technique a bit but never closed the face. Distance control is hit and miss for me with far more misses leaving me a long look for par or bogey.

[LBB]

Without overcomplicating things...practice...lots of practice.  Through my 30 years of golfing where I have greatly varied how much I've played and practiced I can say there is a direct correlation to short game success on the course and the amount of time you invest practicing it.  Specific practice and technique is the icing, and the practice time is your cake.  There is no point in focusing on icing if you have no cake to put it on.

 

My short game was at it's absolute best when I spent at least 2-3 hours a week, for an entire summer dedicated to practicing chipping and pitching (not including putting or full swings).  I'm talking 100-150 balls off grass, in varying fairway and rough lies from 30 to 80 yards per session, a couple sessions a week. 

 

The great thing about dedicating a ton of time to short game practice is that you have the time to experiment with different techniques in different lies and put that into your memory bank to lean on at the course because you've literally done it hundreds of times and know what tends to work better for you and what doesn't.  Having a better idea of how the ball will come out of different lies, with different amounts of spin is the key to picking the right shot to begin with.  Short game is the one area where you see people actually execute the swing they wanted to, with about the right swing speed they intended to, only to have them realize they were totally wrong on how the ball would come off the face and react to the green once it landed.

[Cliffy2020]

Check out Dan Grieve on YouTube for everything chipping, pitching, partial wedges and bunkers.

 

He does instructional videos and full lesson videos with clients of different abilities.  Most recently a 20ish handicap, down to scratch and even pros.

 

I think you’ll get more out of his videos than reading random posts on a golf forum. Check him out.

[MonteScheinblum]

Good stuff so far.  
 

Another big issue is golfers tend to hit their short irons too far.   If your max PW is 135 and 130 is your stock shot, that’s too far.

[TheDeanAbides]

I thoroughly recommend purchasing Monte's Use the Bounce 2.0 and watching his videos with Brandon at Be Better Golf.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUG6mxNfJSs

Edited June 5, 2024 by TheDeanAbides

[Rdailey9108]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I thoroughly recommend purchasing Monte's Use the Bounce 2.0 and watching his videos with Brandon at Be Better Golf.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUG6mxNfJSs

My ball striking has been poor since I'm going through a swing change but using his keep the trail arm moving and feel like throwing a ball has my short game dialed. I even mentioned it to my playing partner as I was going over my shots. Such a great feel to make sure you don't decelerate into impact. 

[naval2006]

The short game chef has improved my pitching, especially longer shots, dramatically. I can’t play golf with more weight on my lead foot when I set up. The Chef’s the only guy who says stay in front of the ball 50/50 for your pitches. And pivoting with your chest has given me a lot of distance control. I pitch even with my 8 iron for longer distances.  

[Rbsiedsc]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Good stuff so far.  
 

Another big issue is golfers tend to hit their short irons too far.   If your max PW is 135 and 130 is your stock shot, that’s too far.

So you are saying golfers are trying to kill their short irons too much going for distance? 

[Rbsiedsc]

Like others said more upright chipping helps a lot. I chip toe down with my 54 and 58 and get good spin and controlled roll. If I have a lot of green to cover I may bump and run or use the bounce with my 54. 
 

as for longer pitches, I go on feel personally and rotating through with my 54 mostly, sometimes my GW but that can get swirly as I tend to pull it. 

[LongNwrong27]

No one can really give you helpful advice besides generalities which may or may not apply. Your post is basically “ car is not running well, what do I do?”

[ShortGolfer]

Find a cheap executive or Par 3 course that allows you to get a lot of practice.

Instead of pin hunting, consider playing Par 3s as Par 4s to hone course management skills.

[OhYeahPlayer]

what's helped me - using a sim to dial in 3/4* swing yardages for SW through PW, solving the full swing wedge problem that inevitably costs me strokes. Knowing I can hit a 3/4 GW the same number as a full SW is just so much more consistent on the course. 

 

*I put an asterisk by 3/4, as video shows it isn't a true 3/4 swing, but it feels like it to me and it's consistent. Point is, I'm removing full swings with gap through lob wedges from my shot selection options, and it's been helpful thus far. 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So you are saying golfers are trying to kill their short irons too much going for distance? 

Yes, so many people who drive it 240-250 and are proud of their 150 yard PW

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes, so many people who drive it 240-250 and are proud of their 150 yard PW

Nothing like a driver length swing with a pw or sw. Followed by disappointment they missed with a big pull, a chunk or thinned it 

[kiawah]

23 hours ago, ZGriswold83 said:

Loving all of this. I have been trying the putting stroke technique a bit but never closed the face. Distance control is hit and miss for me with far more misses leaving me a long look for par or bogey.

The closing of the face should be pretty subtle. It should really only be a degree or two. But when your hands are soft on the shot, the ball can leak right or go too short if you don't do it. I ignored this aspect of the toe down chip for years and wondered why certain guys still seemed to be so good with it. It started to make a bit more sense for me once I got the hang of setting the face just a tiny bit closed. It just makes so much sense. You want the ball to roll out for at least half the distance of the shot while making a pretty soft and short swing at it, so it doesn't make sense for the face to be open. I find this detail helps a lot on grainy lies where the sole of the club might get stuck or the ball might check too hard into the grain. The ball rolls truer when it hits the turf. Hope you find something in my ramblings that helps you! Having a handle on your wedge game makes a massive difference.

[kiawah]

13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Good stuff so far.  
 

Another big issue is golfers tend to hit their short irons too far.   If your max PW is 135 and 130 is your stock shot, that’s too far.

It took me way too long to figure this out. I can hit my 9 iron around 150 carry on a 100% swing, but I typically won't play it on a shot that calls for more than 140-142 yards of carry. Dispersion has gotten much better since I have started clubbing up and trying to hit more of a 3/4 shot more often from inside 200 yards. 

[TheDeanAbides]

13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes, so many people who drive it 240-250 and are proud of their 150 yard PW

Learning to hit 100 yard 9 irons - actually 100 yard 7 irons and 150 yard 3 irons! - was transformational for my game. Thank you for that lesson. 

[Ri_Redneck]

I am a user of the "clock" method with my left arm being what is in the clock hand position. I maintain a book with yardages relating to the arm positions. There are some overlaps which can allow for more or less release. I practice this not only with my wedges, but with my irons as well so I know how to hit 100yd 7i and 150yd 4is. It has made a night and day difference in my game. Prior to this, I always laid up at a full club yardage and was stuck in double digits.

 

BT

[azgreg]

3 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I am a user of the "clock" method with my left arm being what is in the clock hand position. I maintain a book with yardages relating to the arm positions. There are some overlaps which can allow for more or less release. I practice this not only with my wedges, but with my irons as well so I know how to hit 100yd 7i and 150yd 4is. It has made a night and day difference in my game. Prior to this, I always laid up at a full club yardage and was stuck in double digits.

 

BT

Made me think of this from Jim Venetos.

 

 

[Moarbutter]

Second Dan Grieves. He's awesome. I use his system of chipping for right around the green and release 2 for me plays more for any time I have to land on a downslope above the flag, especially shortsided, or to carry a bunker to a tight pin. I use Mickelson's hinge and hold (watch secrets of the short game on youtube) for normal chips and extend that movement with wider stance for pitches off the fairway. I use Grieve's pitching system out of the rough, and don't use it off the fairway because I can't get enough stopping power out of his pitching system (although that's entirely possibly down to user error). From 70 - 130 I use Peltz's distance wedge clockface system, although I do not use the 7:30 swing - I found it had way too much potential for catastrophic errors; although I love the 9:00 and 10:30 swings. I have ranges for all of my clubs from 58-9i for the distance wedges.

[Ri_Redneck]

3 hours ago, azgreg said:

Made me think of this from Jim Venetos.

 

 

Exactly!!

 

BT

[Haroputt]

I primarily use my arms to power the swing and reduce torso rotation

My standard arm swing is what feels like a 1/2 swing 

For me the choice of clubs is either a GW and PW and I bring my arms to what feels like 8,9 or 10 o’clock depending how I feel 

generally 8-9 o’clock for 50-75 yards   9-10 o’clock for 75-100 yard shots 

 

For around the green, my standard swing is a chip and run and it’s feels like a 1/4 swing 

I generally play either a SW or LW 

My weight is on my front foot and I keep my weight foreward throughout the chip. 

 

[Deadaimz]

On 6/5/2024 at 12:14 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes, so many people who drive it 240-250 and are proud of their 150 yard PW

I remember being at your first camp in Campos and we played the 9 and on 1 hole I hit one to ~7' with a pitching wedge from 155. You told me you shouldn't be hitting a pw from that yardage and that your max was 135 at that time. I recall telling you I can hit my pw 170 at times 😁. Well it took about a decade to realize when I keep my pw around 140 max but normally 130 my scores have gone down.  It's across the line that when I don't swing out of my shoes my accuracy goes up and scores down. 

[me05501]

Things that helped me: 

• Monte's "Use the Bounce 2.0" videos lay out a simple and reliable method for pitching and chipping that is very easy to put right into play. 
• Raymond Floyd's book "The Elements of Scoring" has some great content on the short game, course strategy and getting up and down. 
• Bob Rotella's books and learning his general philosophy of playing with a target-focused mindset. He can help you learn to quiet the unproductive parts of your golf brain and learn to trust your lizard brain more the closer you get to the cup. 

 

Things that didn't help me: 

• Dave Pelz's "Short Game Bible." This method is very analytical and data-driven. It all makes sense on paper and it can work in practice depending on your personality type. OTOH his entire method seems designed around professional players who have access to caddies, private practice areas and unlimited time to commit. If you don't have those advantages, steer clear IMO. 

[LBB]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:06 AM, kiawah said:

The closing of the face should be pretty subtle. It should really only be a degree or two. But when your hands are soft on the shot, the ball can leak right or go too short if you don't do it. I ignored this aspect of the toe down chip for years and wondered why certain guys still seemed to be so good with it. It started to make a bit more sense for me once I got the hang of setting the face just a tiny bit closed. It just makes so much sense. You want the ball to roll out for at least half the distance of the shot while making a pretty soft and short swing at it, so it doesn't make sense for the face to be open. I find this detail helps a lot on grainy lies where the sole of the club might get stuck or the ball might check too hard into the grain. The ball rolls truer when it hits the turf. Hope you find something in my ramblings that helps you! Having a handle on your wedge game makes a massive difference.

Thanks for this little tip.  I've been tinkering with my chipping over the last 5 months.  I was closing the face (not toe down) to impart a bit more roll out on my chips a few months ago which had really helped my consistency of the strike.  More recently the last month have committed to toe down and using more of a putting stroke which has really helped my direction...I find it's far easier to have the ball on intended line similar to a putt.  I didn't however close the face any, and in my hours of practice with varying clubs from 9i to LW recently I've found that I was still lacking a bit of minor predictability on how the ball was coming off the face.  

[Canada8888]

Your Short Game Solution: Mastering the Finesse Game from 120 Yards and In 
by James Sieckmann 

 

to me this approach has been solid gold as a base ...

 

after you get it down ...then you can focus on creative ways of getting there ))) 

[DrizZzY22]

Not sure if this has been mentioned. Find out how far you exactly hit your clubs. A lot easier to pick a club when you know it goes a certain distance. What has helped me get way better from 125 and in is learning partial wedges. I almost never hit full wedges anymore. Allows me to make aggressive swings while knowing I wont air mail a green for example.