Whose career crash has been the most disappointing?

[Kai Slater]

I could have also made a case for Justin Thomas.  I know he's won a couple of PGAs in the last six years or so, but he seems to be one who is either really hot or really ice cold.  I honestly don't get the hype with him.  He's fallen quite a bit in spite of the media and golf coverage trying their best to hype him up; at the big events they give him as much air time as possible, even having camera man filming him on the driving range, human interest stories, interviews with him, etc.

[Golferpaul]

10 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Ian Baker Finch - heard he hit ob on #1 at St Andrews (after he lost his swing)which is near impossible to do.  

Yes, I remember standing on the #1 tee at The Old Course and thinking that it was almost impossible to hit it OB even if I tried.

[Golferpaul]

On 6/7/2024 at 2:33 PM, Archimedes65 said:

I think it’s hard to call someone ranked in the top 25 as ‘crashed and burned’.

 

 

It's all relative.  He was in the top five for a few years.  So instead of being ranked with Rahm, McIlroy, etc.  he is now ranked with Kirk, Taylor, Hunan, Pavon, etc.  

 

Call it what you want, but falling from #1 to #25 is huge in my book. 

[Golferpaul]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:08 PM, bcjim said:

Voted YSJ but,  the real answer is TW by far. 

Yes, but his fall is due to age and health.  Just like Nicklaus.

 

The others in the poll are all young and healthy.

[Birdman62]

Welp DJ is 39, and the one thing my studies has shown is that there is a pretty significant dropoff after age 35 for winning majors--and yes as someone indicated upthread the average has indeed fallen over the last 15 years or so, with quite fewer guys winning in their early 30's (not anywhere as bad as it is for the ladies tho).  If you look at the ones who do win after 35 they are almost always all-time greats who had a large enough cushion that they could still contend past their primes.

[Shilgy]

9 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Right and he's so accomplished at tee game. arguably best of his era and he cannot stick a #9I for a bird? I'm not one to be consumed by power game but power rules all else equal. He's not even average on closing out. How's that not "disappointing"?  Koepka has power and he can close out, not shocking he owns best major record of last 10 years. 

 

 

Perhaps….but the subject at hand involved a “career crash” . How does 8 wins in 2 1/2 years constitute a crash?

 

If you want to start a thread with a subject of whose game doesn’t make “sense” then you have a great start with Rory. And your comment of “all else equal” is the big point I was making.  They are too many long players without other holes in their game to expect to succeed with shortcomings.

[Nard_S]

20 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

They are too many long players without other holes in their game to expect to succeed with shortcomings.

Those guys are pretty obvious. Qualitatively Rory is much better than mentioned, and those not. Tiger tells Charlie to study Rory, pretty high praise but also obvious.

 

Fair to say it's not a "crash''. It's s a crash of legacy for sure. The least feared #1 in contention to anything. His decent finishes were of zero consequence.

[Maine Golfer]

I'd love to see Spieth come out of his slump. I think he's fun and amusing, I don't buy him being himself is the root cause.  I don't get JT not winning much anymore, I don't want to put him down at all but I think his issues are all in his mind. 

 

 

[Oostiesalbacore]

I have to say Tiger because it was all self-inflicted. Guy ruined his career over Waffle House cooze. He was never the same after all the personal stuff came out. I believe that since his head space was so stressed, he didn’t rest and recover enough which compounded his injuries and prevented effective long term recovery. Failure to rest and rehab led to a drug addiction which further compounded his issues. 
 

If Tiger said no to all those waitresses, he’d have surpassed Jack by now and would firmly be the greatest of all time but his reckless behavior off the course will always cloud the argument against him. 

[PedronNiall]

Rory by far. Spieth's body isn't happy yet he won't take time off. JT's swing was always on borrowed time. Rickie's game never stabilized at a high enough level and was always propped up by Butch's willingness to travel to him constantly. Day had to recover from his self-inflicted back issues and they plagued him during what could have been a much better peak. 

 

Rory's overall swing has continued to improve in most ways over the past decade since his last Major but he can't get out of his own way. His distance control inside of 200 yards disappears any time a Major is up for grabs. His body language is that of a child, ho hum and loose when he's on, then pouty and flouncing once he falls apart. Watch literally any round and it's there. For some reason he can turn it all on for things like The Ryder Cup and bring it with shots that steal the show or step it up for a partnered event with Lowry but when it's only for him he just doesn't have that fire most weeks and loses all presence & bearing doing anything other than actually taking his stance to take a shot; as soon as the ball leaves the club face his antics will tell you exactly what's coming or how it's finished. 

 

Can anyone genuinely tell me you wouldn't get tired of playing regular rounds with another adult who carried themselves around like Rory does after every shot, leaning on the club, or dropping his shoulders and shuffling around, putting his face down into his arm, turning about and letting his arms flop, and on and on and on? It's pitiful to watch and entirely unbecoming of a 30-something, let alone one who's capable of playing at the highest level of sport. That Rotella and whoever else he has in his stable haven't broken him of it suggests he sadly doesn't have anyone around him who will tell it to him straight, that he carries himself like a big baby and that kind of body language feeds on itself. 

 

Lastly, yes, he is The Backdoor Man. He sneaks back in for a Top Ten, and yes, it's easier to go low when you're out of contention and there's no pressure to hold/sustain the league, the whole field isn't after you, the cameras aren't constantly on you, the largest crowds aren't surrounding you, and you know it doesn't matter if you do this or not so it's a all on whether you feel like laying it out there for a bit or not. 

 

If Rory doesn't take another Major with the power, peak ball striking, and touch around the green he has at his best the second half of his career will be one of the biggest wastes of potential to have ever touched the fairways. The good news for Rory is that at least as of now there's still time to right the ship. Maybe next time he has a shot to close the door on a potential first-time winner like Wyndham Hotels he'll steel up, act like he's been there before, and do so instead of pissing the bed. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Late to the game but Duval, as others have said, somehow just lost his game. He was the great hope to challenge Tiger’s rise to GOAT status. But alas, poor David, couldn’t rise up past his injuries. Glad he’s doing well now. Fowler , Spieth , or any of those others than Ian Baker-Finch are not there yet, maybe heading that way ? Yep. Ian was super fall from Grace . Not sure why some laughed at that but at one time he was a rising star . Beautiful swing. 

[mogc60]

32 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Late to the game but Duval, as others have said, somehow just lost his game. He was the great hope to challenge Tiger’s rise to GOAT status. But alas, poor David, couldn’t rise up past his injuries. Glad he’s doing well now. Fowler , Spieth , or any of those others than Ian Baker-Finch are not there yet, maybe heading that way ? Yep. Ian was super fall from Grace . Not sure why some laughed at that but at one time he was a rising star . Beautiful swing. 

Duval was all injury related that started his decline. He was the best driver of the golf ball in the world. The equivalent to Rory now. Very long and deadly accurate. He was a streaky iron player that when on just lit the flag stick up. When his back went bad his driving went with it. It would be like Curry losing the ability to hit a 3. He became average really quickly. 

[straightshot7]

1 hour ago, Oostiesalbacore said:

I have to say Tiger because it was all self-inflicted. Guy ruined his career over Waffle House cooze. He was never the same after all the personal stuff came out. I believe that since his head space was so stressed, he didn’t rest and recover enough which compounded his injuries and prevented effective long term recovery. Failure to rest and rehab led to a drug addiction which further compounded his issues. 
 

If Tiger said no to all those waitresses, he’d have surpassed Jack by now and would firmly be the greatest of all time but his reckless behavior off the course will always cloud the argument against him. 

but tiger was already cemented as #1 or #2 all time before those events…

 

he won around 11 times, including a major, after those events…

 

i think this was moreso about guys who didn’t maximize their potential. 
 

Tiger had a 10+ year stretch of dominance. He reached his potential. He just didn’t have the ideal post-prime career. 

Edited June 9, 2024 by straightshot7

[straightshot7]

I think it is Spieth, by far.

 

He is the only guy on the list who people were putting into the All Time great conversation in 2015-2017.

 

Many thought he would go on to have a Tiger, Jack or at least Phil type of career. And now he is not even close. 
 

Almost no one would have guessed he’d only have 3 majors total in 2024 and a small handful of wins since 2015. 
 

A few years ago people thought he would turn it around but now it seems like he will always be a top 30 kind of guy but never the #1 guy he once was. 

[NormanFan]

15 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Bill Rogers & David Duval because they made it to the summit.  Ironic it happened after they won the Open.

 

Ian Baker Finch - heard he hit ob on #1 at St Andrews (after he lost his swing)which is near impossible to do.  

 

Ian Baker Finch's decline was really sad.  I felt so sorry for him.  He did manage to win a team section event on the Champions Tour with Brad Bryant in 2013.  Was one of the feel good moments of that year, even if it was just a minor tournament.  Lots of people were happy for him.

[Golferpaul]

1 hour ago, mogc60 said:

Duval was all injury related that started his decline.

It was a perfect storm;

 

1. Injuries
2. Lost his girlfriend
3. Got in a contract dispute with his sponsor

[NormanFan]

2 hours ago, Oostiesalbacore said:

I have to say Tiger because it was all self-inflicted. Guy ruined his career over Waffle House cooze. He was never the same after all the personal stuff came out. I believe that since his head space was so stressed, he didn’t rest and recover enough which compounded his injuries and prevented effective long term recovery. Failure to rest and rehab led to a drug addiction which further compounded his issues. 
 

If Tiger said no to all those waitresses, he’d have surpassed Jack by now and would firmly be the greatest of all time but his reckless behavior off the course will always cloud the argument against him. 

 

Tiger also did a lot of weightlifting and Navy SEAL-like training that reportedly did nothing for his physical condition, especially his knees.

 

41 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

I think it is Spieth, by far.

 

He is the only guy on the list who people were putting into the All Time great conversation in 2015-2017.

 

Many thought he would go on to have a Tiger, Jack or at least Phil type of career. And now he is not even close. 
 

Almost no one would have guessed he’d only have 3 majors total in 2024 and a small handful of wins since 2015. 
 

A few years ago people thought he would turn it around but now it seems like he will always be a top 30 kind of guy but never the #1 guy he once was. 

 

Someone on here around 2015 predicted that Spieth was going to be like David Duval in having some hot years and fading afterward.  Now Spieth's game hasn't collapsed like Duval but I feel like he just hasn't been right since he blew that Masters in 2016.  He did win that Open title the next year but his winning slowed down considerably.

[Golferpaul]

2 minutes ago, NormanFan said:

 

Tiger also did a lot of weightlifting and Navy SEAL-like training that reportedly did nothing for his physical condition, especially his knees.

 

 

Someone on here around 2015 predicted that Spieth was going to be like David Duval in having some hot years and fading afterward.  Now Spieth's game hasn't collapsed like Duval but I feel like he just hasn't been right since he blew that Masters in 2016.  He did win that Open title the next year but his winning slowed down considerably.

Spieth's 13 wins by year:

 

Year	age at EOY	Entered	Wins
2013	20	23	1
2014	21	27	0
2015	22	25	5
2016	23	21	2
2017	24	23	3
2018	25	23	0
2019	26	23	0
2020	27	17	0
2021	28	25	1
2022	29	22	1
2023	30	22	0

[Titleist99]

8 hours ago, Kai Slater said:

I could have also made a case for Justin Thomas.  I know he's won a couple of PGAs in the last six years or so, but he seems to be one who is either really hot or really ice cold.  I honestly don't get the hype with him.  He's fallen quite a bit in spite of the media and golf coverage trying their best to hype him up; at the big events they give him as much air time as possible, even having camera man filming him on the driving range, human interest stories, interviews with him, etc.

Justin Thomas has lost his way recently but he's a fifteen-time PGAT Champion with two major titles.

 

I make fun of him, but he will end up in the Hall of Fame. IMO

Edited June 9, 2024 by Titleist99

[AZBRONCFAN]

Speith but I always knew the sustainability of the consistency of the length of putts he was making wouldn't last. 

[Shilgy]

16 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Bill Rogers & David Duval because they made it to the summit.  Ironic it happened after they won the Open.

 

Ian Baker Finch - heard he hit ob on #1 at St Andrews (after he lost his swing)which is near impossible to do.  

I’ve always felt Rogers and Duval had the same issue….work so hard to get to the top and then…”is that all there is”?  Call it lost desire…call it burnout….call it injuries….when they lose the drive to continue to strive for excellence they’re toast.

[mosesgolf]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I’ve always felt Rogers and Duval had the same issue….work so hard to get to the top and then…”is that all there is”?  Call it lost desire…call it burnout….call it injuries….when they lose the drive to continue to strive for excellence they’re toast.

Duval said something like that once in an interview - "is that all there is".   At the level the top tier guys play at it doesn't take much to knock them off which makes what Tiger and Jack did for so long all the more amazing. 

[KennyP]

44 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I’ve always felt Rogers and Duval had the same issue….work so hard to get to the top and then…”is that all there is”?  Call it lost desire…call it burnout….call it injuries….when they lose the drive to continue to strive for excellence they’re toast.

 

I agree. There is a long list of players that won a major then either lost focus or lost their game altogether. 

[sbjinx]

4 hours ago, Oostiesalbacore said:

I have to say Tiger because it was all self-inflicted. Guy ruined his career over Waffle House cooze. He was never the same after all the personal stuff came out. I believe that since his head space was so stressed, he didn’t rest and recover enough which compounded his injuries and prevented effective long term recovery. Failure to rest and rehab led to a drug addiction which further compounded his issues. 
 

If Tiger said no to all those waitresses, he’d have surpassed Jack by now and would firmly be the greatest of all time but his reckless behavior off the course will always cloud the argument against him. 

Yep. This is my answer whenever anyone asks. Imagine if Tiger never had the scandals, injuries, etc. He’s still the GOAT but he could have had another 10+ years of dominating on the tour. 

[Golferpaul]

27 minutes ago, sbjinx said:

Yep. This is my answer whenever anyone asks. Imagine if Tiger never had the scandals, injuries, etc. He’s still the GOAT...

Millions of us would disagree.

[Golferpaul]

2 hours ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

Speith but I always knew the sustainability of the consistency of the length of putts he was making wouldn't last. 

And yet he was 2nd in SG: Tee to green in 2017 and 48th in SG:putting.  So he won three times including a major when he was not putting well.

[ALIF]

15 hours ago, Carbrook_Will said:

Dustin Johnson.
 

Looks like he doesn’t care about playing professional golf anymore. 

If I was him, at that point, my life, I wouldn’t either! i’d be enjoying my hot wife, two boys, and a large pile of money.

[PedronNiall]

1 hour ago, sbjinx said:

Yep. This is my answer whenever anyone asks. Imagine if Tiger never had the scandals, injuries, etc. He’s still the GOAT but he could have had another 10+ years of dominating on the tour. 

 

Pretty sure behind the scenes part of Tiger's energy was fueled by the constant high he was living. The entire time he wasn't vying on the course he was juiced on keeping his many, many torrid affairs under wraps. Guy continues to be a fan of gambling, doesn't get much more high stakes than that. 

 

The scandal when it all fell apart probably hurt him more because he didn't get that rush anymore than due to any worries over how people viewed him. 

 

The injuries no doubt took the biggest toll. The events and total play he missed out on recovering was massive. By the last, however, there was no coming back, yet he's still trying. Rory still has the means & body to get it done, so his lack of dominance when it counts is far more disappointing as of now to me. 

 

Tiger maybe has one more in him if all the cards fall and will grind as long as he can no matter how long the odds; Rory looks set to piddle around for another decade with nothing doing when the stakes are highest and that is a tragedy.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Golferpaul said:

Millions of us would disagree.

As one that saw both in their prime….if you want to call Jack the greatest champion due to the three extra majors that’s fine imo.  But there is NO question in my mind that Tiger played the best golf ever to date and did win more events in a much more difficult era to do so.

[TreyWingbat]

Scottie Scheffler.

 

Barely won this tournament.