Buying a rental vacation home where summer is moderate

[ChaosTheory]

Thinking hard about buying a home for us to stay in during say 6-8 weeks of summer, but that would have rental demand in some other parts of the year.

 

Ideally a unit in a complex that is built with this in mind, so there is onsite rental management and maintenance.  We’re not looking to squeeze maximum income from it.  But it’d be good if it pays for itself.  
 

Looking for moderate weather.  I would not be super picky about the local golf scene, just that there are decent places to play.  It’d be good if it is a resort-y or outdoorsy area.

 

A classic example would be somewhere in northern LP of Michigan.  Or some mountain town.

 

Probably not looking in the super high cost of living places like coastal CA, mountain CO, etc.

 

Looking for ideas and hoping for specific developments or complexes too.  Thanks.

[jonsnow]

On 8/18/2024 at 12:29 PM, ChaosTheory said:

Thinking hard about buying a home for us to stay in during say 6-8 weeks of summer, but that would have rental demand in some other parts of the year.

 

Ideally a unit in a complex that is built with this in mind, so there is onsite rental management and maintenance.  We’re not looking to squeeze maximum income from it.  But it’d be good if it pays for itself.  
 

Looking for moderate weather.  I would not be super picky about the local golf scene, just that there are decent places to play.  It’d be good if it is a resort-y or outdoorsy area.

 

A classic example would be somewhere in northern LP of Michigan.  Or some mountain town.

 

Probably not looking in the super high cost of living places like coastal CA, mountain CO, etc.

 

Looking for ideas and hoping for specific developments or complexes too.  Thanks.

Would you consider the Southeast? St Simonds Island in Georgia might be an option. About an hour north of Jacksonville so summers may be warmer than you're looking for but rental market would be great, UGA-Florida football weekend it might pay for itself in a week.

[sheepdawg]

I live in NE Georgia about 1,500 feet above sea level. It's been a nice summer, high today is supposed to be 82*. Utilities, fuel, etc. are fairly cheap. Decent golf courses within 40 miles. I'm originally from Memphis where it's hotter than hell right now. 

[ChaosTheory]

3 hours ago, jonsnow said:

Would you consider the Southeast? St Simonds Island in Georgia might be an option. About an hour north of Jacksonville so summers may be warmer than you're looking for but rental market would be great, UGA-Florida football weekend it might pay for itself in a week.

 

Yeah I'm looking for a reliably cooler place than that.  Good idea though.

[jonsnow]

10 minutes ago, ChaosTheory said:

 

Yeah I'm looking for a reliably cooler place than that.  Good idea though.

https://rumblingbald.com/

 

This is a place I go to frequently with a friend who has a place there. Several more than adequate golf courses on property & nearby. About an hour drive to Asheville, NC. The resort has a Catskills kind of feel to it, in fact several scenes from Dirty Dancing were shot there.

[TiScape]

I’ve seen a few of these threads on WRX. Typically goes, OP asks for recommendations on a place to move. Several members suggest locations and the OP rejects each recommendation due to various nuisances/reasons... Hopefully this time it’s different! Good luck 😊

 

*but great call on no coastal CA. High taxes, cost of living is RIDICULOUS, weather isn’t as good as they want you to believe and don’t get me started on the unmentionable ‘P word’ stuff! 🙊 Hard pass! 👎🏼

[Triple Lindy]

On 8/18/2024 at 11:29 AM, ChaosTheory said:

We’re not looking to squeeze maximum income from it.  But it’d be good if it pays for itself.

I’ve been through the analysis phase quite a few times. Never pulled the trigger, though. HOA fees are usually what scared me off, some topping $30k/year. I was looking at some relatively high-end areas that offered skiing in the winter and golf in the summer - Colorado and Utah. Condos/townhouses, not single family houses. 
 

If you choose a place like northern MI and expect to use it yourself during the summer, don’t expect much, if any, winter rental income. Many options that you might consider are currently or have been income property. Ask for an income statement that shows income and expenses so you can see the net, and be sure to include stuff like property tax. On a shared structure property, like condos or townhouses, talk to other owners about the HOA and any potential upcoming special assessments, like a new roof.

 

If your research shows similar results to mine, you’ll find that the payout of the investment comes through appreciation and thus isn’t realized until you sell. Until then, expect expenses, not income. If it turns out otherwise, all the better, but at least you’ll be prepared if not. 

 

While we would have made great money had we bought and ultimately sold, each decision had risk and we decided to just let others take that risk and we rent those places through VRBO. No risk and we don’t feel obligated to go to the same place over and over. I would have been fine with the latter, but not my wife, so I didn’t want to add that dispute to the mix, either.

 

Good luck!

[Triple Lindy]

Just saw that you’re also in Texas. Ruidoso, NM is a great summer spot. Angel Fire and Red River are also nice. All offer moderate winter sports, with small ski resorts, so you might get some winter rental income. All are drivable from Texas, at least from DFW. 

[TiScape]

10 minutes ago, Triple Lindy said:

I’ve been through the analysis phase quite a few times. Never pulled the trigger, though. HOA fees are usually what scared me off, some topping $30k/year. I was looking at some relatively high-end areas that offered skiing in the winter and golf in the summer - Colorado and Utah. Condos/townhouses, not single family houses. 
 

If you choose a place like northern MI and expect to use it yourself during the summer, don’t expect much, if any, winter rental income. Many options that you might consider are currently or have been income property. Ask for an income statement that shows income and expenses so you can see the net, and be sure to include stuff like property tax. On a shared structure property, like condos or townhouses, talk to other owners about the HOA and any potential upcoming special assessments, like a new roof.

 

If your research shows similar results to mine, you’ll find that the payout of the investment comes through appreciation and thus isn’t realized until you sell. Until then, expect expenses, not income. If it turns out otherwise, all the better, but at least you’ll be prepared if not. 

 

While we would have made great money had we bought and ultimately sold, each decision had risk and we decided to just let others take that risk and we rent those places through VRBO. No risk and we don’t feel obligated to go to the same place over and over. I would have been fine with the latter, but not my wife, so I didn’t want to add that dispute to the mix, either.

 

Good luck!

A constructive response… I really need to work on that approach. 
Great post TL.

[jonsnow]

6 minutes ago, TiScape said:

A constructive response… I really need to work on that approach. 
Great post TL.

Does this kindler, gentler response mean you haven't had your "deep cleaning" yet? Had that myself a couple of times, didn't enjoy it either time.

[TiScape]

4 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Does this kindler, gentler response mean you haven't had your "deep cleaning" yet? Had that myself a couple of times, didn't enjoy it either time.

No I had it! It was way better than I expected. She numbed me up so well even my nose was (kinda still is) numb. Thinking my brain as well… So not sure who I’ll be when that wears off. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[jonsnow]

5 minutes ago, TiScape said:

No I had it! It was way better than I expected. She numbed me up so well even my nose was (kinda still is) numb. Thinking my brain as well… So not sure who I’ll be when that wears off. 🤷🏼‍♂️

My older brother who passed away in 2019 was special needs. He was telling me about a trip to the dentist once & said they gave him a shot of "numbacaine"; he grabbed his cheek & squeezed it & shook it like they do to make sure the anesthetic spreads (I guess). I said, "They gave you a shot of what?" He repeated "Numbacaine!" like I must be stupid or deaf.

 

If the world made sense, Novocaine WOULD be called "Numbacaine"

Edited August 20, 2024 by jonsnow

[Petethreeput]

Since there is no price limit, Big Sky in MT is as good a place as any to settle into.  They have a decent Palmer course there.  About 40 minutes from YNP.

 

TL was just in NW MT, and a few friends of mine have places on Big Mountain which generates winter income, like a lot of income.  It is pretty spendy though, but out of towners love Whitefish because it is small and "quaint" if you can look past the quaint Rolexes on the folks who own the condos on Big Mountain.  About an hour from GNP.

 

Northern ID would be less expensive, there is Sandpoint which has a ski mountain as does Kellogg, ID.  Don't know about golf in Sandpoint but the CDA/Spokane area has tremendous public golf.  Flying into Spokane and driving the hour or so wouldn't be too arduous to get to these two locations, and Spokane tends to have pretty inexpensive flights.

 

Jackson Hole has a pretty good golf course and Teton Village has good skiing which is where the income comes from (as TL noted) if you are looking to use it in the summer.  Jackson also has the Teton National Park right out the back door and the Snake River flowing by it.

 

These might be a little less expensive than the big ski towns in CO.

[ChaosTheory]

4 hours ago, Triple Lindy said:

I’ve been through the analysis phase quite a few times. Never pulled the trigger, though. HOA fees are usually what scared me off, some topping $30k/year. I was looking at some relatively high-end areas that offered skiing in the winter and golf in the summer - Colorado and Utah. Condos/townhouses, not single family houses. 
 

If you choose a place like northern MI and expect to use it yourself during the summer, don’t expect much, if any, winter rental income. Many options that you might consider are currently or have been income property. Ask for an income statement that shows income and expenses so you can see the net, and be sure to include stuff like property tax. On a shared structure property, like condos or townhouses, talk to other owners about the HOA and any potential upcoming special assessments, like a new roof.

 

If your research shows similar results to mine, you’ll find that the payout of the investment comes through appreciation and thus isn’t realized until you sell. Until then, expect expenses, not income. If it turns out otherwise, all the better, but at least you’ll be prepared if not. 

 

While we would have made great money had we bought and ultimately sold, each decision had risk and we decided to just let others take that risk and we rent those places through VRBO. No risk and we don’t feel obligated to go to the same place over and over. I would have been fine with the latter, but not my wife, so I didn’t want to add that dispute to the mix, either.

 

Good luck!

That’s solid info.  I have to admit that my main motivation for considering owning the place is to have a place we can count on.  Not having to struggle to find space available for an extended escape from the furnace of DFW for the second half of summer.

 

But owning without local management and maintenance seems silly for just a few weeks of our usage.  Overall, if I could count on renting a suitable place, I’d prefer that.

 

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

4 hours ago, TiScape said:

I’ve seen a few of these threads on WRX. Typically goes, OP asks for recommendations on a place to move. Several members suggest locations and the OP rejects each recommendation due to various nuisances/reasons... Hopefully this time it’s different! Good luck 😊

 

*but great call on no coastal CA. High taxes, cost of living is RIDICULOUS, weather isn’t as good as they want you to believe and don’t get me started on the unmentionable ‘P word’ stuff! 🙊 Hard pass! 👎🏼

This made me smile.  I will try not to be that guy.  Besides, I think there are always other readers who are interested too.

But yes, I suppose I’m hoping for a reply of, “you want a unit at XYZ Woods in Gaylord Michigan.”

[ChaosTheory]

Starting to think about renting a park model at some RV park in Michigan.  We used to RV, and generally enjoy the parks in resort areas.  

[Triple Lindy]

1 hour ago, ChaosTheory said:

That’s solid info.  I have to admit that my main motivation for considering owning the place is to have a place we can count on.  Not having to struggle to find space available for an extended escape from the furnace of DFW for the second half of summer.

 

But owning without local management and maintenance seems silly for just a few weeks of our usage.  Overall, if I could count on renting a suitable place, I’d prefer that.

 

 

 

I get it. I’ve had that itch for a couple of decades and it still hasn’t been scratched. There’s something about having something of your own and eliminating the anxiety of the rental. And we’re retired, so we could use the property as much as we wanted. 
 

VRBO has been great for us, though. I’ve been using it since around its inception and we’ve never had a bad experience. It’s also a great way to get to know an area that you may want to buy into at some point.

[Wooley12]

6 hours ago, ChaosTheory said:

Starting to think about renting a park model at some RV park in Michigan.  We used to RV, and generally enjoy the parks in resort areas.  

My golf partner does a PNW snowbird thing. Owned a spot in an RV park to park his RV and play max golf in Phoenix for the winter and liked the setup. What is the reverse/opposite of a "Snowbird"?

[ChaosTheory]

6 hours ago, Wooley12 said:

My golf partner does a PNW snowbird thing. Owned a spot in an RV park to park his RV and play max golf in Phoenix for the winter and liked the setup. What is the reverse/opposite of a "Snowbird"?

I’ve heard it called exactly that, a reverse snowbird. 🙂

[TiScape]

9 hours ago, ChaosTheory said:

I’ve heard it called exactly that, a reverse snowbird. 🙂

🤠 

Edited August 21, 2024 by TiScape

[Petethreeput]

21 hours ago, Triple Lindy said:

I get it. I’ve had that itch for a couple of decades and it still hasn’t been scratched. There’s something about having something of your own and eliminating the anxiety of the rental. And we’re retired, so we could use the property as much as we wanted. 
 

VRBO has been great for us, though. I’ve been using it since around its inception and we’ve never had a bad experience. It’s also a great way to get to know an area that you may want to buy into at some point.

We are in the same boat.

 

As we approach retirement I poll others what they are doing and those who own really like it, but the one's who rent also really like it.  We aren't sure what to do honestly, but we do know the winters definitely need to be broken up/avoided since neither of us are enamored with snow removal anymore.

 

We are definitely leaning toward two condos at some point, but we don't know where the kids are going to settle and we don't know where we want to go.  We do know where we don't want to go though.

 

Truthfully, if the golf were more affordable I would move to Ti's area in a heartbeat.

[Triple Lindy]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

We are definitely leaning toward two condos at some point

That’s the way to go. Lock and leave - one for summer and one for winter. Exactly what I’d like to do. And then my youngest kid who lives in DFW had to have a baby….. Just kidding of course, but with our other grandkids so far away, there’s no way my wife is leaving DFW. There’s actually a great condo development nearby, which is kinda out of place since Flower Mound is primarily a bedroom community. I thought - hey maybe we can sell and move there. Then I looked a prices - average is $2.7m. Good grief.

[JetSpeed79]

On 8/20/2024 at 12:42 PM, Petethreeput said:

Since there is no price limit, Big Sky in MT is as good a place as any to settle into.  They have a decent Palmer course there.  About 40 minutes from YNP.

 

TL was just in NW MT, and a few friends of mine have places on Big Mountain which generates winter income, like a lot of income.  It is pretty spendy though, but out of towners love Whitefish because it is small and "quaint" if you can look past the quaint Rolexes on the folks who own the condos on Big Mountain.  About an hour from GNP.

 

Northern ID would be less expensive, there is Sandpoint which has a ski mountain as does Kellogg, ID.  Don't know about golf in Sandpoint but the CDA/Spokane area has tremendous public golf.  Flying into Spokane and driving the hour or so wouldn't be too arduous to get to these two locations, and Spokane tends to have pretty inexpensive flights.

 

Jackson Hole has a pretty good golf course and Teton Village has good skiing which is where the income comes from (as TL noted) if you are looking to use it in the summer.  Jackson also has the Teton National Park right out the back door and the Snake River flowing by it.

 

These might be a little less expensive than the big ski towns in CO.

 Had kind of similar thoughts on this. Thinking Bozeman, Spokane, and even Bellingham. 

[Petethreeput]

25 minutes ago, JetSpeed79 said:

 Had kind of similar thoughts on this. Thinking Bozeman, Spokane, and even Bellingham. 

Bozeman is crazytown right now.  I am not sure it will ever be affordable again, and maybe that's not an issue but just what us local yokels think.  I haven't done the drive since the Foo Fighters were in Big Sky south of town, but the traffic to get to the park was disastrous following the Gallatin.  It is considered a YNP gateway, but that is only because of the airport.  If I were to move in that direction I would look around Livingston (though it gets crazy windy, and I wouldn't winter there because the highway closes often) which is about 45 minutes from Gardiner, the north entrance of the park.  Good fishing, hiking, and plenty of wildlife.

 

The Spokane area is really great.  You have Silver Mountain in Kellogg, Lake CDA, and the CDA river if you fish.  Lots of little towns in the panhandle there.  The Spokane, Spokane Valley into Post Falls, ID to CDA is getting pretty built up, but we love the area when we head west to play golf in Spokane (which is usually once a year), and we will venture over other times for varying reasons, usually to buy something specific from a store we don't have here.    

[JetSpeed79]

3 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Bozeman is crazytown right now.  I am not sure it will ever be affordable again, and maybe that's not an issue but just what us local yokels think.  I haven't done the drive since the Foo Fighters were in Big Sky south of town, but the traffic to get to the park was disastrous following the Gallatin.  It is considered a YNP gateway, but that is only because of the airport.  If I were to move in that direction I would look around Livingston (though it gets crazy windy, and I wouldn't winter there because the highway closes often) which is about 45 minutes from Gardiner, the north entrance of the park.  Good fishing, hiking, and plenty of wildlife.

 

The Spokane area is really great.  You have Silver Mountain in Kellogg, Lake CDA, and the CDA river if you fish.  Lots of little towns in the panhandle there.  The Spokane, Spokane Valley into Post Falls, ID to CDA is getting pretty built up, but we love the area when we head west to play golf in Spokane (which is usually once a year), and we will venture over other times for varying reasons, usually to buy something specific from a store we don't have here.    

This is some good inside info! 
 

I can definitely see what you mean about Bozeman, but I only see it through a visitor’s eyes. But it’s obviously exploded. 
 

Spokane I really enjoy (although also as a visitor). I keep trying to venture out and explore more there but the last couple of times I was in town it was rainy. 

[Petethreeput]

Median home price in BZM was higher than Seattle according to the local news.

[Petethreeput]

I should say, BZM is pretty danged fun though.

 

The golf scene is weak though.

Edited August 21, 2024 by Petethreeput

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, JetSpeed79 said:

 Had kind of similar thoughts on this. Thinking Bozeman, Spokane, and even Bellingham.

Neighbors w/the legendary @Double Mocha Man! You guys b kickin’ it at the Black Cat! That would be epic. I’d 💯 come visit. 

[JetSpeed79]

9 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Median home price in BZM was higher than Seattle according to the local news.

Dang. Didn’t know it was that bad. 

[JetSpeed79]

6 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Neighbors w/the legendary @Double Mocha Man! You guys b kickin’ it at the Black Cat! That would be epic. I’d 💯 come visit. 

That would be an epic coffee meet up.