From no Handicap to Plus - The Journey (for an over 50 yr old)

[Nels55]

This is a rather long video but contains a lot of info on strategies to battle getting older:

Eating properly is difficult but once you get going it’s doable.

[Frid_the_kid]

Sounds like golf is a great part-time hobby for you.  You enjoy watching videos, taking lessons, tinkering with grips, hitting range balls and talking about golf online. I wouldn’t ruin all of that with an artificial low handicap goal.

 

A better goal would be to keep learning how to enjoy the game more with your sons & playing partners during the round.  You are going to find that an improved scoring average will not automatically make the game more fun after a certain functional level of competence on the course.  
 

Keep taking lessons, don’t overload yourself with swing advice on youtube, completely ditch the handicap goal, and play some fun courses with some fun people.  

[jobin]

I have read that Yani Tseng, top lady golfer from Taiwan, hit balls for 2 years off the mat only. Then she went out to play golf. Progressed rapidly to excellent form. But she was a young girl, not a middle aged man.

From the comments here from the OP and others, my prediction is: a bedtime dream coz daylight brings too little focused direction.

[vegasandre]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:04 AM, Ty_Webb said:

 

A friend of mine back in the UK one year played 11 rounds. 7 of those were alternate shot too. In the other 4, he shot something like 66, 69, 71, 67, against course ratings of 73, 74, 74, 73. On the old UK system he went from 0.9 to +1.2 in those four rounds. Those four rounds were spread across the year. spring, summer, fall. It wasn't like he'd been playing a lot the previous year either. 

 

But, when he was younger, he played a LOT. I don't believe it's possible to get to a good solid plus handicap without one of the following:

 

- a lot of time, effort, dedication and a good helping of talent

- a background in another sport which has significant carryover similarities - hockey, baseball, tennis seem to go fairly well together with golf - and then you need to have put the time in on that other sport

 

You have to do the time

Was at the range last week and was half way through the session when I went into my now 2 x a week speed training mode. (I really love that btw)
Guy next to me was hitting it great. He was intrigued a bit by my speed follies and we got into a conversation.  He has a cool story.   Started golf when he was 39.  got to a 4 handicap within a year.  got to scratch within a few more and got to plus after that. Missed the Senior Open (amateur?) Qualifying by a stroke a few years back.  
gave me some more hope..
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

[vegasandre]

Happy New Year update:

On the Practice front- Been practicing a lot.  Irons and Drivers every other day. Chipping/pitching in between days and 1 speed day a week. Still not much putting practice yet (on purpose because I know I can get that dialed in quickly and rather work on my fugly swing..lol) 

Speed front-  Got up to 132 MPH with standard club. Working on the left side transition. Just ordered a Krank fire pro 6 deg head.  I'm going to put a senior flex 46" in it (so 47.5/48 total) and put a XS playable typical shaft in it too.  Will mess around with it.  Going for 140/200 on speed front and see how I like it on course with 45' playable shaft. Starting to consider a senior LD try. 

Golf front-  Played 2 rounds in 2025 now. Last Sunday at Maderas (san diego area). Great course btw... highly recommend it. Played ok. Kept trying to drive short par 4s and losing balls... Not realizing there were creeks  in the way.etc..lol ..etc..  2 birdies.      87
Played today at Enagic /Chula Vista CA area. . Decent course but  easier (unless you like to try to drive short par 4's) Played the Blues with mostly Irons off tees.  
Basically hit every tee shot in decent to good position. Had a lot of short wedges in. Wedge game was mediocre but doable.   Shot a  75 . 
If wedge game was on it would of been sub 72 easy
It is my lowest round since 2001 (in fairness I haven't really kept score since then and have probably played 20/25 total rounds in those 24 years) 
My confidence level has increased a bit now.  That is important. 

Have a lesson with Monte on Thurs.  That is always enlightening...

[TheDeanAbides]

On 12/19/2024 at 3:50 PM, Nels55 said:

This is a rather long video but contains a lot of info on strategies to battle getting older:

Eating properly is difficult but once you get going it’s doable.

If you really want to battle aging go paleo-keto or carnivore. 

[Nels55]

21 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

If you really want to battle aging go paleo-keto or carnivore. 

There is considerable evidence that you need to eat a large variety of plants in order to have a healthy gut which has been shown to be extremely important for overall health.  Also the body cannot store protein and once you have enough the rest gets converted to fat and carbs that the body can store.  That process is difficult on the kidneys if I remember correctly.  This is my current understanding but I am not a doctor nor any kind of expert and at the end of the day or the end of your life it's whatever works.  I do think that some people may more genetically inclined to one type of diet or another.  

[TheDeanAbides]

36 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

There is considerable evidence that you need to eat a large variety of plants in order to have a healthy gut which has been shown to be extremely important for overall health.  Also the body cannot store protein and once you have enough the rest gets converted to fat and carbs that the body can store.  That process is difficult on the kidneys if I remember correctly.  This is my current understanding but I am not a doctor nor any kind of expert and at the end of the day or the end of your life it's whatever works.  I do think that some people may more genetically inclined to one type of diet or another.  

I don't want to derail this thread with a long and involved answer, and I also want to be respectful because this is often an emotionally challenging topic. Suffice to say, if it was essential to eat plants (all of which are trying to make you ill to protect themselves) the Inuit would have died out centuries ago. It's a tough subject because we basically have to believe one 'expert' or another unless we're able to understand data. 

 

I recommend Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry, Dr Shawn Baker etc.. They've all been living carnivore for years with improved health, bloodwork and wellbeing, as have their patients. 

 

That's all I'll say on this - you can do whatever you want with it, my friend. 

[vegasandre]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I don't want to derail this thread with a long and involved answer, and I also want to be respectful because this is often an emotionally challenging topic. Suffice to say, if it was essential to eat plants (all of which are trying to make you ill to protect themselves) the Inuit would have died out centuries ago. It's a tough subject because we basically have to believe one 'expert' or another unless we're able to understand data. 

 

I recommend Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry, Dr Shawn Baker etc.. They've all been living carnivore for years with improved health, bloodwork and wellbeing, as have their patients. 

 

That's all I'll say on this - you can do whatever you want with it, my friend. 

On the Health front here is what I do. 
Crossfit classes about 4x a week. Walk dogs a few miles every day. Speed training now 1-2x a week. Eat whatever basically but try to not eat breads a lot.  Take 2 big fish oil and D pills every day. Drink a disgusting green shake every morning that has a ton of veggies in it .. and I drink 2 coffees and 2 energy drinks every single day for 25 years.  
never get sick. I used to sprinkle Wuhan on my Frosted flakes every morning during Covid like Chuck Norris....  LOL
 

[NosajNeelik]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

There is considerable evidence that you need to eat a large variety of plants in order to have a healthy gut which has been shown to be extremely important for overall health.  Also the body cannot store protein and once you have enough the rest gets converted to fat and carbs that the body can store.  That process is difficult on the kidneys if I remember correctly.  This is my current understanding but I am not a doctor nor any kind of expert and at the end of the day or the end of your life it's whatever works.  I do think that some people may more genetically inclined to one type of diet or another.  

Unused Protein does not covert to fat or carbs. That’s why when you eat an overload of protein in ketosis you blast away your fat. 

[Nels55]

8 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I don't want to derail this thread with a long and involved answer, and I also want to be respectful because this is often an emotionally challenging topic. Suffice to say, if it was essential to eat plants (all of which are trying to make you ill to protect themselves) the Inuit would have died out centuries ago. It's a tough subject because we basically have to believe one 'expert' or another unless we're able to understand data. 

 

I recommend Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry, Dr Shawn Baker etc.. They've all been living carnivore for years with improved health, bloodwork and wellbeing, as have their patients. 

 

That's all I'll say on this - you can do whatever you want with it, my friend. 

I will. 

 

I have consumed so to speak a fair amount of information on diet over the years from Keto / all protein to Vegan along with a lot of glucose stuff..  Based on what I have seen I recommend:
Eat only whole unprocessed foods.  No sugary stuff at all and no added chemical preservatives.  Some fruit is okay and a large variety of vegetables is important.

 

I lost 30 pounds 10 years ago by doing a half way decent job of that along with intermittent fasting.  I slipped a bit over the years on what I was eating and I am working on doing better now.  LOL I feel better and my chess.com ranking went up 200 points so I guess that proves it!  Yes I am being sarcastic there...

 

There seems to be a fair amount of data that shows that in general the less you eat the longer you live as long as you are getting sufficient nutrition. 

 

It comes down to life choices, do you want to live to eat or eat to live?

[iacas]

Losing weight is 100% about calories in versus calories out. You can affect your metabolism slightly, but at the end of the day… calories in < calories out (spent) -> weight loss.

 

Overall health cares about the actual stuff surrounding the calories. You can lose weight eating garbage; it doesn't mean you're going to be healthy.

[NosajNeelik]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Losing weight is 100% about calories in versus calories out. You can affect your metabolism slightly, but at the end of the day… calories in < calories out (spent) -> weight loss.

 

Overall health cares about the actual stuff surrounding the calories. You can lose weight eating garbage; it doesn't mean you're going to be healthy.

The story comes to mind of the nutritionist that proved this by eating 1200 calories of twinkies only for a month or something. He lost weight but also his liver went downhill fast. 

[Pnwpingi210]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Losing weight is 100% about calories in versus calories out. You can affect your metabolism slightly, but at the end of the day… calories in < calories out (spent) -> weight loss.

 

Overall health cares about the actual stuff surrounding the calories. You can lose weight eating garbage; it doesn't mean you're going to be healthy.

Yup.  Calories are king for weight control.  Macro nutrients breakdown can impact performance and body composition.

 

with all the at said, consistency is important.  Some people find it easier to consistently control calories (even if they aren’t explicitly tracking them) by adhering to high carb, low carb, carnivore, paleo, vegan, etc …. Principals in their food choice and consumption.

Edited January 13 by Pnwpingi210

[Birdman03]

Read through this thread and noticed that the OP has put off putting practice while concentrating on other aspects of his game.  However, I think it is almost a 

"non-negotiable" that a +HC level golfer has to make putts at a level consistent with that HC.

 

I wonder how many golfers with elite level ability in the rest of their games are stopped from making it to +HC territory just by underperformance in this one aspect?  I think it is quite a few.

[GoGoErky]

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

Losing weight is 100% about calories in versus calories out. You can affect your metabolism slightly, but at the end of the day… calories in < calories out (spent) -> weight loss.

 

Overall health cares about the actual stuff surrounding the calories. You can lose weight eating garbage; it doesn't mean you're going to be healthy.

100% accurate. 80% clean 20% not so clean is what almost every dietician or nutritionist I trust say, some will say 90/10. Anyone following Dr Layne Norton who is both a bodybuilding champion and multiple time national and world powerlfiting champion can see how he eats and it’s not 100% clean.

 

He has a bunch of info debunking all the old school mindsets about nutrition

 

13 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Yup.  Calories are king for weight control.  Macro nutrients breakdown can impact performance and body composition.

 

with all the at said, consistency is important.  Some people find it easier to consistently control calories (even if they aren’t explicitly tracking them) by adhering to high carb, low carb, carnivore, paleo, vegan, etc …. Principals in their food choice and consumption.

yep. The better you eat the meter you will feel and look. Consistency is key and that doesn’t mean being 100% compliant every day. Even some of the best performance athletes have a bad day, it’s not letting that bad day turn into multiple and snowball.

 

 

[RayPlan]

18 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

Read through this thread and noticed that the OP has put off putting practice while concentrating on other aspects of his game.  However, I think it is almost a 

"non-negotiable" that a +HC level golfer has to make putts at a level consistent with that HC.

 

I wonder how many golfers with elite level ability in the rest of their games are stopped from making it to +HC territory just by underperformance in this one aspect?  I think it is quite a few.

You can lose a lot more strokes off the green than on. How often do you putt the ball into a hazard or out of bounds? 

[Nels55]

12 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

You can lose a lot more strokes off the green than on. How often do you putt the ball into a hazard or out of bounds? 

If you are getting close to scratch / plus then you better be able to putt.  Three putting is the same dropped stroke as hitting one into a PA.  I have never golfed with a scratch or better golfer who was not an excellent putter.  They also were really good at getting up and down when they would miss a green.  

 

So, yes long game is more important but you have to have both.

Edited January 13 by Nels55

[Pnwpingi210]

7 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

You can lose a lot more strokes off the green than on. How often do you putt the ball into a hazard or out of bounds? 

This is true.

 

A scratch golfer average about 29-30 putts per round.  I don’t think we know where the op is on there average putts per round, but if they are in the mid/upper 30s on average your going to have to get that figured out to get to scratch.

 

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, Nels55 said:

If you are getting close to scratch / plus then you better be able to putt.  Three putting is the same dropped stroke as hitting one into a PA.  I have never golfed with a scratch or better golfer who was not an excellent putter.  They also were really good at getting up and done when they would miss a green.  

 

So, yes long game is more important but you have to have both.

Yeah.  Most low handicaps to scratch are good putters and can scramble well.  What separates the plus folks from the low/single digits folks is distance and consistency on approaches.

[vegasandre]

15 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

If you are getting close to scratch / plus then you better be able to putt.  Three putting is the same dropped stroke as hitting one into a PA.  I have never golfed with a scratch or better golfer who was not an excellent putter.  They also were really good at getting up and down when they would miss a green.  

 

So, yes long game is more important but you have to have both.

Thanks Guys.  You are all correct.  
During this first year -2025 I was planning on putting 20% of my time into putting and increasing it greatly as I got closer to scratch -hopefully late mid -2026
In the last month my putting practice has basically been 10 min on a green before a round. Obviously that isn't a long term recipe for success - but it's one item I am not worried about. 
Putting and length.   All the other items are another story and why I am just super focused on that right now as well as playing reps. 

PS.. I am really putting this all out here for fun and to document the progress for myself...Any of my edgy, sarcastic ramblings are just meant to be a goof (though maybe somewhat factual)

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, vegasandre said:

Thanks Guys.  You are all correct.  
During this first year -2025 I was planning on putting 20% of my time into putting and increasing it greatly as I got closer to scratch -hopefully late mid -2026
In the last month my putting practice has basically been 10 min on a green before a round. Obviously that isn't a long term recipe for success - but it's one item I am not worried about. 
Putting and length.   All the other items are another story and why I am just super focused on that right now as well as playing reps. 

PS.. I am really putting this all out here for fun and to document the progress for myself...Any of my edgy, sarcastic ramblings are just meant to be a goof (though maybe somewhat factual)

What are you averaging as putts per round for 18 holes?

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

What are you averaging as putts per round for 18 holes?

 

Unless it's really high, that's such a bad way to look at that stat. Or, rather, it's a bad stat to use for that type of thing. Or most things, really.

 

I have a few 10 handicappers who average 31, and scratch golfers who average 32.

 

If you miss a lot of greens and chip it to eight or ten feet, you're gonna have a lower putt total than a good golfer playing on a course with large, undulating greens who hits a lot of them, often to 30 to 40 feet.

 

Let's stop with the "counting stats" except the one that really matters: final score. It's about the only "counting stat" that counts.

[Pnwpingi210]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Unless it's really high, that's such a bad way to look at that stat. Or, rather, it's a bad stat to use for that type of thing. Or most things, really.

 

I have a few 10 handicappers who average 31, and scratch golfers who average 32.

 

If you miss a lot of greens and chip it to eight or ten feet, you're gonna have a lower putt total than a good golfer playing on a course with large, undulating greens who hits a lot of them, often to 30 to 40 feet.

 

Let's stop with the "counting stats" except the one that really matters: final score. It's about the only "counting stat" that counts.

Totally agree.  But if it’s say 37 putts per round maybe putting is something to think about.

 

but agree quibbling over 29-32 putts per round and saying this stat is why you aren’t scratch is in general a bad way to look at it. 

Just trying to flush out additional information other than club head speed in this thread

[gentles]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

If you are getting close to scratch / plus then you better be able to putt.  Three putting is the same dropped stroke as hitting one into a PA.  I have never golfed with a scratch or better golfer who was not an excellent putter.  They also were really good at getting up and down when they would miss a green.  

 

So, yes long game is more important but you have to have both.

 

I'd frame this another way - I have played with a ton of scratch golfers who aren't great putters, but I cant think of a single one who wasn't at least average length and a great iron player.

 

IMO It's just not sustainable to rely on a short game and putting to save your round all the time as the variability in those areas is just too high - you can get bad lies and imperfections on a green, but a ball on the tee and in the air is the same every time). All of the strokes gained data suggests that the easiest way for a 10 handicap to move towards scratch is with ball striking rather than putting

[OHGolfer2]

On 1/13/2025 at 3:26 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

I don't want to derail this thread with a long and involved answer, and I also want to be respectful because this is often an emotionally challenging topic. Suffice to say, if it was essential to eat plants (all of which are trying to make you ill to protect themselves) the Inuit would have died out centuries ago. It's a tough subject because we basically have to believe one 'expert' or another unless we're able to understand data. 

 

I recommend Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry, Dr Shawn Baker etc.. They've all been living carnivore for years with improved health, bloodwork and wellbeing, as have their patients. 

 

That's all I'll say on this - you can do whatever you want with it, my friend. 

 

I've been trying to eat healthier over the past 2 weeks, but it's hard to tell which 'experts' to believe, since so many are in conflict. Some experts say that diet X is the best, while others say that diet X is the worst.  

 

Are there any diet experts that most everyone agrees are trustworthy?  

 

@Nels55 @TheDeanAbides@GoGoErky

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, OHGolfer2 said:

 

I've been trying to eat healthier over the past 2 weeks, but it's hard to tell which 'experts' to believe, since so many are in conflict. Some experts say that diet X is the best, while others say that diet X is the worst.  

 

Are there any diet experts that most everyone agrees are trustworthy?  

 

@Nels55 @TheDeanAbides@GoGoErky

Here are few that I have found interesting:

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, OHGolfer2 said:

 

I've been trying to eat healthier over the past 2 weeks, but it's hard to tell which 'experts' to believe, since so many are in conflict. Some experts say that diet X is the best, while others say that diet X is the worst.  

 

Are there any diet experts that most everyone agrees are trustworthy?  

 

@Nels55 @TheDeanAbides@GoGoErky

For nutrition there’s none better than Layne Norton. As a personal trainer I use his resources for a lot of things. His team is really good too. If you’re on Instagram follow him at biolayne and his team is teambiolayne. He has a lot of information on his website.

 

Others I trust for my own nutrition are Gaby Argulo Gabypowerlifts on IG. 

[gentles]

1 hour ago, OHGolfer2 said:

 

I've been trying to eat healthier over the past 2 weeks, but it's hard to tell which 'experts' to believe, since so many are in conflict. Some experts say that diet X is the best, while others say that diet X is the worst.  

 

Are there any diet experts that most everyone agrees are trustworthy?  

 

@Nels55 @TheDeanAbides@GoGoErky

 

The single common thread that all "diets" have in common is to cut out sugar, and almost all recommend significant scaling back of refined white carbohydrates as a starting point and either replacing with plants or meat

 

Depending where you start from, if you cut out refined sugar, white bread and maybe pasta, and eat more protein (either plant based or meat) that will set you up well. IMO that should be a base before you start worrying about the specific details i.e. paleo vs keto vs carnivore for example. 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

2 minutes ago, gentles said:

 

The single common thread that all "diets" have in common is to cut out sugar, and almost all recommend significant scaling back of refined white carbohydrates as a starting point and either replacing with plants or meat

 

Depending where you start from, if you cut out refined sugar, white bread and maybe pasta, and eat more protein (either plant based or meat) that will set you up well. IMO that should be a base before you start worrying about the specific details i.e. paleo vs keto vs carnivore for example. 

 

 

It’s ok to eat these things. I know guys like Layne Norton who eat popcorn as part of preworkout.

 

It’s about not overdoing the bad. And there’s plenty of foods that “experts” say are “good” that aren’t as good as they claim