Did Jack Nicklaus View The Release Differently?

[tthomasgolfer605]

After watching his description of his swing, he states that the wrists are still fully cocked approaching P6. I'm looking forward to this discussion. 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

First of all, what Jack says he does is largely irrelevant.  Feel and intent aren't real. There is only what he actually did.

 

Second, it is not the best video for determining when and how the release was made because of the coarseness of the time resolution and not the best angle or image resolution.

 

Conclusion is meh, who knows what he really did.

[tthomasgolfer605]

29 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

First of all, what Jack says he does is largely irrelevant.  Feel and intent aren't real. There is only what he actually did.

 

Second, it is not the best video for determining when and how the release was made because of the coarseness of the time resolution and not the best angle or image resolution.

 

Conclusion is meh, who knows what he really did.

He certainly didn't release his wrists from the top of the swing. His wrist structure always stayed intact until P6. He stated he had to get to his left side THEN release the club for maximum extension. 

[ThinkingPlus]

33 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

He certainly didn't release his wrists from the top of the swing. His wrist structure always stayed intact until P6. He stated he had to get to his left side THEN release the club for maximum extension. 

Pretty much impossible to tell when his release began based on that video. He certainly isn't fully released by P6, but you wouldn't expect that anyway.

 

Also, I don't care what he said. As I stated clearly above, what he says is largely irrelevant. 

[virtuoso]

10 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Pretty much impossible to tell when his release began based on that video. He certainly isn't fully released by P6, but you wouldn't expect that anyway.

 

Also, I don't care what he said. As I stated clearly above, what he says is largely irrelevant. 

Thomasgolfer is not going to participate the conversation you are actually having; he is going to participate in the conversation he wishes he was having.

[ThinkingPlus]

14 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Thomasgolfer is not going to participate the conversation you are actually having; he is going to participate in the conversation he wishes he was having.

I usually try to stay out of these kinds of threads, but I've had enough of the "some old pro said he did this and he was great so you should do it" crap. If there isn't measured data or incontrovertible video imagery, it's not worth considering. Period.

[tthomasgolfer605]

28 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Thomasgolfer is not going to participate the conversation you are actually having; he is going to participate in the conversation he wishes he was having.

Define what he says about being fully cocked at P6. I'll wait. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

41 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Pretty much impossible to tell when his release began based on that video. He certainly isn't fully released by P6, but you wouldn't expect that anyway.

 

Also, I don't care what he said. As I stated clearly above, what he says is largely irrelevant. 

He did learn from Jack Grout who was a better teacher than anyone on here. 

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I usually try to stay out of these kinds of threads, but I've had enough of the "some old pro said he did this and he was great so you should do it" crap. If there isn't measured data or incontrovertible video imagery, it's not worth considering. Period.

Too late, the bar has come down on us in the rollercoaster car at Thomasgolfer World.

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 minute ago, virtuoso said:

Too late, the bar has come down on us in the rollercoaster car at Thomasgolfer World.

I don't know what I did to you to come at me like that all the time. If anything, the video shows that feel isn't real. He may have felt the release from the top, but certainly didn't do it. 

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Define what he says about being fully cocked at P6. I'll wait. 

8 minutes later: I would define that as incorrect.

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 minute ago, virtuoso said:

8 minutes later: I would define that as incorrect.

Yeah. What did Jack know? 

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I don't know what I did to you to come at me like that all the time. If anything, the video shows that feel isn't real. He may have felt the release from the top, but certainly didn't do it. 

I only come at you like 10 percent of the time. Sometimes I agree with you.

[ThinkingPlus]

11 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

He did learn from Jack Grout who was a better teacher than anyone on here. 

Jack could have learned from Mickey Mouse. It's irrelevant and still provides no verifiable evidence of what he was actually doing during his swing.

[tthomasgolfer605]

I didn't come here to start an argument. I asked a question in the subject line. I think we can learn from each other instead of immature insults. 

[ThinkingPlus]

3 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Yeah. What did Jack know? 

Jack knew what Jack needed to feel during the swing to achieve what Jack wanted out of the shot.

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 minute ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Jack knew what Jack needed to feel during the swing to achieve what Jack wanted out of the shot.

Coil, shift and release. That's what he did. 

[virtuoso]

1 minute ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I didn't come here to start an argument. I asked a question in the subject line. I think we can learn from each other instead of immature insults. 

Thinkingplus made no immature insults. She was very matter-of-fact.

 

You and I are the only ones being immature.

[Zitlow]

7 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

He did learn from Jack Grout who was a better teacher than anyone on here. 

 

Jack Grout learned from Henry Picard who learned from Alex Morrison who was quite the ladies man.

 

 

 

[Trippels]

6 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Jack knew what Jack needed to feel during the swing to achieve what Jack wanted out of the shot.

I am Jack's scientifically unfounded swing thought

 

[virtuoso]

To summarize: Jack neither released from the top, nor kept it fully cocked until P6. He started releasing somewhere in between…like everyone else.

[virtuoso]

7 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Coil, shift and release. That's what he did. 

See, I agree with you here.

[tthomasgolfer605]

Just now, virtuoso said:

To summarize: Jack neither released from the top, nor kept it fully cocked until P6. He started releasing somewhere in between…like everyone else.

Thank you. (Finally)

[Zitlow]

Jack didn't release early or late he released on time in the proper sequence. 

 

I like to call it the domino effect, for every action there is a reaction. 

 

Edited September 8, 2024 by Zitlow

[virtuoso]

1 minute ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Thank you. (Finally)

You’re welcome.

[DArnie]

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

After watching his description of his swing, he states that the wrists are still fully cocked approaching P6. I'm looking forward to this discussion. 

 

I can hear that sound of him hitting those persimmon drivers. It was like no other. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 minute ago, DArnie said:

I can hear that sound of him hitting those persimmon drivers. It was like no other. 

I still bring out the persimmon occasionally. Sounds like a shotgun with the newer balls. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Jack’s feels of shift early, back stay closed and release early are good for average golfers because they shift late, open their shoulders early and try and hold the release to compensate for first two problems.

 

Quite literally doing the opposite of what you should do in 3 cases.

 

Load the right side, get open as quickly as possible and hold lag has been the pursuit of golfers for decades.

[tthomasgolfer605]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Jack’s feels of shift early, back stay closed and release early are good for average golfers because they shift late, open their shoulders early and try and hold the release to compensate for first two problems.

 

Quite literally doing the opposite of what you should do in 3 cases.

 

Load the right side, get open as quickly as possible and hold lag has been the pursuit of golfers for decades.

Does it ever get to the point where those feels turn into real and they overdo it? 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

After watching his description of his swing, he states that the wrists are still fully cocked approaching P6. I'm looking forward to this discussion. 

 

I feel like it's pretty clear they are not.

 

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

He certainly didn't release his wrists from the top of the swing. His wrist structure always stayed intact until P6. He stated he had to get to his left side THEN release the club for maximum extension. 

 

As others pointed out, and as is in my signature, #FeelAintReal.

 

38 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I didn't come here to start an argument. I asked a question in the subject line.

 

What we can and should learn, let alone what we're capable of learning, is pretty limited. Jack played:

• Before we could measure what he did.
• Before cameras were even HD or slow-motion.
• Before the modern equipment era, which changed how we play golf.
• Before the modern knowledge era, which changed how we play golf.

I've never really cared about what we can learn from any ONE player in the game, regardless of who they are. Phil Mickelson is arguably one of the top ten golfers of all time, and yet he's never been regularly used as a "model" by people.

 

What's clear from the video:

• #FeelAintReal
• Jack was somewhere between fully released and fully cocked at P6.

 

27 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

To summarize: Jack neither released from the top, nor kept it fully cocked until P6. He started releasing somewhere in between…like everyone else.

 

Yup.

 

And like @MonteScheinblum said, amateurs typically have to feel a LOT of the opposite. They release too late, shift too late, etc.

Edited September 8, 2024 by iacas