Building my Game improvement as a Driving Iron

[JDH84]

In reality - what is the practical difference between the "driving iron" and the equivalent "game improvement long iron" besides offset? They often seem similarly constructed (thin face, hollow, some with foam, etc..) Is it which shafts they're designed to take?

What, for example, would the expected difference really be between the a 20 degree 4 game improvement iron, my Zipcore XL 4 iron, and a utility 3 iron at 20 degrees?

I am looking at creating a driving iron from my 20* 4 iron, as I already have a 4 hybrid that is 21* from the same set. It would be an off the tee only club.

My 4 iron is already longer than the Srixon MKII utility 3 iron standard length due to mine being +0.5in. I speced it this way because they are shared brands and technologies for comparison in the table below. I figured it would be a good template to build off of due to the very oversized nature of the Zipcore XL heads being the same size as the Srixon utility mkII. 

 

The Zipcore XL head has 4.7mmof offset vs the Srixon utility mkII has 3.5mm.

I want to put in a near hybrid length graphite shaft in it, but will the head being 7.5g heavier make the tip too soft?
 

With it being strong lofted do you think that the spin will stay down and not balloon too much into wind?

Thanks for all your help and guidance!

[JDH84]

Has anyone done this with new game improvement clubs yet?

[Cwebb]

"Driving iron" is just the trendy name they decided to give to hybrid irons.

 

They typically have a somewhat wider sole and a lower COG as a result.  What that actually does for any given player's ball flight, is hard to predict.  You just need to test and see how they work for you

[JDH84]

Definitely. My club has the same footprint as the Srixon utility mkII iron and is cavity back instead of hollow.

 

Just trying to see if anyone's had any success going graphite with a tiny bit more length on a game improvement iron to leverage it as an off the tee club. 

 

I have some concerns about spin potentially ballooning into wind?

 

What are the limitations do you think in taking an approach like this?

[minhjn]

I’ve done this with a T350 4 iron which is 20 degrees. I play a graphite Recoil 95 in it and it’s one of my favorite clubs. 

 

[JDH84]

10 minutes ago, minhjn said:

I’ve done this with a T350 4 iron which is 20 degrees. I play a graphite Recoil 95 in it and it’s one of my favorite clubs. 

 

How is it into the wind, spin wise and flight wise?

[LedTape]

The hybrid shaft will be soft stepped which should reduce spin and increase launch, but that depends on shaft choice and you won’t know until you try it. Zipcore 4i will work great as a DI with <5mm offset, a long heel to toe, and a hot face. The face will increase launch and decrease spin as well. 
 

[minhjn]

23 hours ago, JDH84 said:

How is it into the wind, spin wise and flight wise?

 

Tried T350 and U505 in the same loft side by side and the 350 is just better for me. Goes farther, more ball speed, just better for me. 

[JDH84]

25 minutes ago, minhjn said:

 

Tried T350 and U505 in the same loft side by side and the 350 is just better for me. Goes farther, more ball speed, just better for me. 

What type of shaft did you go with? Were they similar weighted too?

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

The utility or driving iron label depends on who you talk to.  A utility iron IMO would be a club head that's playable in rough, from tee and fairway.  A driving iron is good from the tee or fairway, but not so much from the rough.

 

Titleist calls theirs Utility irons.  They have U-505 and the popular T200 with a specialized aftermarket graphite shaft and up to 2" longer than standard; the difference U-505 comes in 16', has more offset and is more forgiving and maybe more versatile from rough.

 

My fav is a 2018 - 718 T-MB 2i 17' with AV White Am2, 90S at 39.75", plus a 2023 - T200 2i, 17' with NS Pro Modus GOST Hybrid 91S, at 39.75 (shaft will be replaced).  Both clubs are SW D4 & D3.

 

Also have a 2021 T200 4i, 22', with MMT 95S at stock 4i length 38.5".  IME, due to loft, it's not the best in the wind, as it tends to balloon.  Needs a really stiff, longer playing length. 

 

IMO the T350 would make a nice utility; it's a fine head.

[Pepperturbo]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:31 PM, LedTape said:

The hybrid shaft will be soft stepped which should reduce spin and increase launch, but that depends on shaft choice and you won’t know until you try it. Zipcore 4i will work great as a DI with <5mm offset, a long heel to toe, and a hot face. The face will increase launch and decrease spin as well. 
 

How do you soft-step a hybrid shaft?

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

How do you soft-step a hybrid shaft?

In this case by not tip trimming it an appropriate amount for the weight of the head. So to answer your question @JDH84, likely no. That 7.5g of extra weight would be effectively countered by 1/2" of tipping, and the lack of said tipping will only make the shaft play a tiny bit softer, nothing that is make of break. 

As for the original question, there is indeed a lot of overlap in design/construction with SGI type irons tending to favor bigger heads, thicker toplines, and deeper CGs. Some utility/driving irons follow that same blueprint, others do not. The biggest difference tends to be in how that deeper CG impacts ball flight. Gear effect on irons is a thing when the CG gets lower and further back, so you'd see more "fliers" on high strikes where the spin drops noticeably and "floatier" shots when struck low as the spin will kick up more. Some people like this effect, others do not. To eliminate that you need a CG that is further forward and more aligned with the face which is what you'll see on clubs like the TM P770, the smaller Titleist utilities, and anything more compact/thinner soled. 

[JDH84]

6 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

In this case by not tip trimming it an appropriate amount for the weight of the head. So to answer your question @JDH84, likely no. That 7.5g of extra weight would be effectively countered by 1/2" of tipping, and the lack of said tipping will only make the shaft play a tiny bit softer, nothing that is make of break. 

As for the original question, there is indeed a lot of overlap in design/construction with SGI type irons tending to favor bigger heads, thicker toplines, and deeper CGs. Some utility/driving irons follow that same blueprint, others do not. The biggest difference tends to be in how that deeper CG impacts ball flight. Gear effect on irons is a thing when the CG gets lower and further back, so you'd see more "fliers" on high strikes where the spin drops noticeably and "floatier" shots when struck low as the spin will kick up more. Some people like this effect, others do not. To eliminate that you need a CG that is further forward and more aligned with the face which is what you'll see on clubs like the TM P770, the smaller Titleist utilities, and anything more compact/thinner soled. 

Thanks so much for the guidance and insight. 

 

I was able to get the head dimensions today for both to drop in a table and will compare tonight. 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

The utility or driving iron label depends on who you talk to.  A utility iron IMO would be a club head that's playable in rough, from tee and fairway.  A driving iron is good from the tee or fairway, but not so much from the rough.

 

Titleist calls theirs Utility irons.  They have U-505 and the popular T200 with a specialized aftermarket graphite shaft and up to 2" longer than standard; the difference U-505 comes in 16', has more offset and is more forgiving and maybe more versatile from rough.

 

My fav is a 2018 - 718 T-MB 2i 17' with AV White Am2, 90S at 39.75", plus a 2023 - T200 2i, 17' with NS Pro Modus GOST Hybrid 91S, at 39.75 (shaft will be replaced).  Both clubs are SW D4 & D3.

 

Also have a 2021 T200 4i, 22', with MMT 95S at stock 4i length 38.5".  IME, due to loft, it's not the best in the wind, as it tends to balloon.  Needs a really stiff, longer playing length.  

 

IMO the T350 would make a nice utility; it's a fine head. 

Like most other Golf tech terms, there is no common standard for what a driving iron is either, and for me, its a IRON head, mostly for tee shots, (today) often with a different head (more forgiving), and different (lighter) shaft than the iron set. (yes a utility / "half hybrid"  head fits the term too).

I was a Scratch dealer, and always took them home as 3-PW, but many players between 3.5 and 10 HDCP, could not handle them as 3 and sometimes 4 irons, (i had a HDCP limit for access to my shop of 10),so i always had "left overs" of the EZ1 model....they was quite popular as "driving irons" with the PX Tour issue hybrid shafts (PX black now). I actually made a #4 iron to myself, but had to admit, my numbers was better with a Hybrid head. 

Thin top line, slightly larger head size, low offset....it does not get much better than that.

[JDH84]

19 hours ago, Valtiel said:

In this case by not tip trimming it an appropriate amount for the weight of the head. So to answer your question @JDH84, likely no. That 7.5g of extra weight would be effectively countered by 1/2" of tipping, and the lack of said tipping will only make the shaft play a tiny bit softer, nothing that is make of break. 

As for the original question, there is indeed a lot of overlap in design/construction with SGI type irons tending to favor bigger heads, thicker toplines, and deeper CGs. Some utility/driving irons follow that same blueprint, others do not. The biggest difference tends to be in how that deeper CG impacts ball flight. Gear effect on irons is a thing when the CG gets lower and further back, so you'd see more "fliers" on high strikes where the spin drops noticeably and "floatier" shots when struck low as the spin will kick up more. Some people like this effect, others do not. To eliminate that you need a CG that is further forward and more aligned with the face which is what you'll see on clubs like the TM P770, the smaller Titleist utilities, and anything more compact/thinner soled. 

 

Here is a full comparison of the 4 iron head I'll be building with, and the Srixon club I'll be using as a template. 

Edited December 18, 2024 by JDH84

[avrag]

Reviving this thread, because I am interested as well.
I play Mizuno JPX 923 Forged 5-PW. I am very tempted to add a JPX 925 Hot Metal High Launch 4-iron (one degree strong, so that it comes at 21°). I am just so inconsistent with my 22° hybrid (side to side), it so frustrating.  

[RickyBubbs]

@JDH84 You'll probably see a higher launch with the Zipcore over the driving iron. The ZipCore XL and Halo series have deep and low CG designed to help get the ball in the air for lower swing speeds. I'd be surprised if the CG was in the same location for the Srixxon driving iron. Tour guys have the speed and don't want balloon shots, especially when you consider how many Srixxon guys will be using these on links courses. Whether it makes a difference for you depends a lot on your ball striking and club head speed. You should look at your current 4 iron numbers and work from there on what's needed. 

[Streuner]

I did use a older Cobra driving Iron build that was sold seperately before the driving/ utility iron category became popular. Ricky Fowler did use one sometimes in the past. It was F9 speedback with a Graphite Design IZ hybrid shaft. I did not Like the look at adress, the results have been good. But the Srixon ZxU are better feeling and to me better looking at address. 
 

i also have a Mizuno Hot Metall Pro 919 4 iron that is having the same loft than my 3 Srixon ZXU. The Mizuno feels hot but harsh of the face, and it was build with a Steelfiber FC90 that simply not suit my swing. At Address the Mizuno and the Srixon both looks nearly similar. 

Edited June 1 by Streuner