Shaft Weight At The Top

[Prvise]

Hi GolfWRX’ers,

 

Happy new year to all. 

 

I am looking for information surrounding shaft weight, as I have just changed 3 wood and hybrid and I’m looking to change out the 3W shaft.

 

My current shafts are as follows:

- Bridgestone JGR Driver: Fujikura Speeder 661 Stiff (68g) 

- Callaway Paradym 3W: Stock Ventus TR Blue 5-S Stiff (58g) 

- Callaway Apex U3: Recoil Dart F4 (78g)

 

I am concerned that the 3W shaft is far too light in comparison to the hybrid & driver. I can hit it, but I am generally slowing down my swing to control the face. What weight should the 3W shaft be? Based on general ‘rules’ 10g heavier at 78g? And that would then be the same as the Recoil. Would then changing the 3W shaft mean an increase in weight on the U3 is needed? Or can these be the same weight?

 

I do like how the Speeder feels, and I do like how the Recoil feels. The Ventus is far too whippy for my liking and feels like I’m swinging a pool noodle.

 

Ps. I know the optimal way to go about this is a fitting, but just looking for general recommendations and advice. 

Thanks in advance. 

Edited January 1 by Prvise

[HISPL]

Generally 6g or so of shaft weight per inch of length change is the rule of thumb, so 10g is in the ball park for a progression from driver to 3 wood as there is generally a 2 inch length difference or thereabouts.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, Prvise said:

Hi GolfWRX’ers,

 

Happy new year to all. 

 

I am looking for information surrounding shaft weight, as I have just changed 3 wood and hybrid and I’m looking to change out the 3W shaft.

 

My current shafts are as follows:

- Bridgestone JGR Driver: Fujikura Speeder 661 Stiff (68g) 

- Callaway Paradym 3W: Stock Ventus TR Blue 5-S Stiff (58g) 

- Callaway Apex U3: Recoil Dart F4 (78g)

 

I am concerned that the 3W shaft is far too light in comparison to the hybrid & driver. I can hit it, but I am generally slowing down my swing to control the face. What weight should the 3W shaft be? Based on general ‘rules’ 10g heavier at 78g? And that would then be the same as the Recoil. Would then changing the 3W shaft mean an increase in weight on the U3 is needed? Or can these be the same weight?

 

I do like how the Speeder feels, and I do like how the Recoil feels. The Ventus is far too whippy for my liking and feels like I’m swinging a pool noodle.

 

Ps. I know the optimal way to go about this is a fitting, but just looking for general recommendations and advice. 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

The two "general rules" of either

1) 10 gm between driver and fairways

or
2) 5 gm per inch difference in playing length

 

are really just starting points for the fitting process.   It doesn't mean anything is wrong if your setup doesn't match those generalizations.

 

Also don't forget head weigh can play just as important a role in the overall heft feel of the club.   Both static weight (shaft + grip weight) and head weight (swing weight) have to work together.

 

And using your driver shaft as a references assumes that the current driver is a "perfect" fit for weight.  And while it might be a good fit, that doesn't mean it's perfect.

 

So yes, trial and error is the only way to really dial it in and be sure - or understand how it might effect the results.   But you don't need  to go do a professional fitting to figure it out.  You can manage it yourself with some lead tape, foot powder spray and a bucket of balls on the range.   In fact, at your level, you'll likely do a much better job if you do do it yourself than wasting time with any of the large number of "fitters" who are just glorified salespeople.

 

Just follow this tutorial.  It works for all the longer clubs - Driver, Fairway, hybrids, DI's etc...:

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, Prvise said:

Hi GolfWRX’ers,

 

Happy new year to all. 

 

I am looking for information surrounding shaft weight, as I have just changed 3 wood and hybrid and I’m looking to change out the 3W shaft.

 

My current shafts are as follows:

- Bridgestone JGR Driver: Fujikura Speeder 661 Stiff (68g) 

- Callaway Paradym 3W: Stock Ventus TR Blue 5-S Stiff (58g) 

- Callaway Apex U3: Recoil Dart F4 (78g)

 

I am concerned that the 3W shaft is far too light in comparison to the hybrid & driver. I can hit it, but I am generally slowing down my swing to control the face. What weight should the 3W shaft be? Based on general ‘rules’ 10g heavier at 78g? And that would then be the same as the Recoil. Would then changing the 3W shaft mean an increase in weight on the U3 is needed? Or can these be the same weight?

 

I do like how the Speeder feels, and I do like how the Recoil feels. The Ventus is far too whippy for my liking and feels like I’m swinging a pool noodle.

 

Ps. I know the optimal way to go about this is a fitting, but just looking for general recommendations and advice. 

Thanks in advance. 

Just follow Stuarts advice her, im chiming in just to tell a little about shaftweight.

Woods is most often 46" long uncut, while Hybrid shafts is only 42"
That means the numbers we se, is NOT Compatible values.

Your driver shaft
68 grams / 46 inch = 1.48 grams per inch

Your Hybrid shaft
78 grams / 42 inch = 1.86 grams per inch
If that shaft was 46 long uncut, it would be 78/46 = 1.69 grams per inch, so the hybrid is higher in weight than we get the impression of by looking at uncut weight alone. (1.86 grams per inch like it is x 46 like a wood, makes the hybrid shaft to be 86 grams uncut, not only 78 like official specs is)

Here is my shaft wgt progression chart, where the above is taken into consideration, so numbers is still NOT directly comparable, but this is how i expect it to look like, using official uncut wgt numbers.

ITS ONLY a "static fitting", or a quick and dirty start point for testing, not more than that, but it will give you the ball park for what should work, most often within plus minus 5 grams or 1 row to the left or right in the chart.

You can use any club in the bag that really works good to find what row you should look at, driver or irons.
PS its PLAY LENGHTs thats important here, headersto the left side with head numbers is only "suggestions" so use the right row and play lenghts to use the chart right.

Edited January 1 by Howard_Jones

[ARSM1932]

Happy New Year To All

 

My current shaft weights are detailed below but I reckon there is an element of personal preference in most golfers' choices.

 

Driver: 65 grams

Hybrid: 105 grams

Fairway Wood: 85 grams

Irons and Wedges: 125 grams

[Prvise]

17 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Just follow Stuarts advice her, im chiming in just to tell a little about shaftweight.

Woods is most often 46" long uncut, while Hybrid shafts is only 42"
That means the numbers we se, is NOT Compatible values.

Your driver shaft
68 grams / 46 inch = 1.48 grams per inch

Your Hybrid shaft
78 grams / 42 inch = 1.86 grams per inch
If that shaft was 46 long uncut, it would be 78/46 = 1.69 grams per inch, so the hybrid is higher in weight than we get the impression of by looking at uncut weight alone. (1.86 grams per inch like it is x 46 like a wood, makes the hybrid shaft to be 86 grams uncut, not only 78 like official specs is)

Here is my shaft wgt progression chart, where the above is taken into consideration, so numbers is still NOT directly comparable, but this is how i expect it to look like, using official uncut wgt numbers.

ITS ONLY a "static fitting", or a quick and dirty start point for testing, not more than that, but it will give you the ball park for what should work, most often within plus minus 5 grams or 1 row to the left or right in the chart.

You can use any club in the bag that really works good to find what row you should look at, driver or irons.
PS its PLAY LENGHTs thats important here, headersto the left side with head numbers is only "suggestions" so use the right row and play lenghts to use the chart right.

You, my friend, are a legend. Excellent information.

 

Thanks to all who have provided advice and information too. Very helpful in narrowing options down to try.

[AWcOBB]

On 1/1/2025 at 10:26 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Just follow Stuarts advice her, im chiming in just to tell a little about shaftweight.

Woods is most often 46" long uncut, while Hybrid shafts is only 42"
That means the numbers we se, is NOT Compatible values.

Your driver shaft
68 grams / 46 inch = 1.48 grams per inch

Your Hybrid shaft
78 grams / 42 inch = 1.86 grams per inch
If that shaft was 46 long uncut, it would be 78/46 = 1.69 grams per inch, so the hybrid is higher in weight than we get the impression of by looking at uncut weight alone. (1.86 grams per inch like it is x 46 like a wood, makes the hybrid shaft to be 86 grams uncut, not only 78 like official specs is)

Here is my shaft wgt progression chart, where the above is taken into consideration, so numbers is still NOT directly comparable, but this is how i expect it to look like, using official uncut wgt numbers.

ITS ONLY a "static fitting", or a quick and dirty start point for testing, not more than that, but it will give you the ball park for what should work, most often within plus minus 5 grams or 1 row to the left or right in the chart.

You can use any club in the bag that really works good to find what row you should look at, driver or irons.
PS its PLAY LENGHTs thats important here, headersto the left side with head numbers is only "suggestions" so use the right row and play lenghts to use the chart right.

 

This is awesome! Last year I was fit into a 105g iron shaft set, stock 38" 5 iron . I am a huge believer in shaft weight matters most. After being fit into the 105g stiff flex Axiom shafts I decided to drop my wedge shaft weight from stock vokey (130ish??) I went with 115g spinner shafts and it is definitely better. I currently play graphite design ad vf 6s in driver and had wondered about weight in this as well. I used to play my 3 wood with a devotion driver shaft cut down to 43" length and loved it. recently moved into a 75g shaft and play it well but still think about putting my cut shaft back in. originally 67g but no idea what it would be now. 

So in short my current lineup is and Ill start with irons since i was fit by a very reputable guy in Atlanta, thanks Adam C.

Irons- Cobra King Tour 4-Gw with Axiom 105s

Driver- Qi10 with GD AD VF 6s 

3w- TSi2 with Accra FX 2.0 200f

3h- 818h with Oban devotion 6s, was fit into this in 2018

50/54/58 MG3 with DG 115 spinner

 

with this chart it looks like i might want to experiment with 

driver in 50g

3w in either my old cut driver shaft or mid 50 to low 60's weight?

hybrid in mid 70's

wedges the only thing I would look into is something that might "match up better" with the axioms

 

Would love to get some advice on my setup and ideas. Im getting a real good picture in my head already but always open to suggestions.

 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, AWcOBB said:

 

This is awesome! Last year I was fit into a 105g iron shaft set, stock 38" 5 iron . I am a huge believer in shaft weight matters most. After being fit into the 105g stiff flex Axiom shafts I decided to drop my wedge shaft weight from stock vokey (130ish??) I went with 115g spinner shafts and it is definitely better. I currently play graphite design ad vf 6s in driver and had wondered about weight in this as well. I used to play my 3 wood with a devotion driver shaft cut down to 43" length and loved it. recently moved into a 75g shaft and play it well but still think about putting my cut shaft back in. originally 67g but no idea what it would be now. 

So in short my current lineup is and Ill start with irons since i was fit by a very reputable guy in Atlanta, thanks Adam C.

Irons- Cobra King Tour 4-Gw with Axiom 105s

Driver- Qi10 with GD AD VF 6s 

3w- TSi2 with Accra FX 2.0 200f

3h- 818h with Oban devotion 6s, was fit into this in 2018

50/54/58 MG3 with DG 115 spinner

 

with this chart it looks like i might want to experiment with 

driver in 50g

3w in either my old cut driver shaft or mid 50 to low 60's weight?

hybrid in mid 70's

wedges the only thing I would look into is something that might "match up better" with the axioms

 

Would love to get some advice on my setup and ideas. Im getting a real good picture in my head already but always open to suggestions.

 

Plot in what you got on that chart, using play lenght, and uncut shaft wgt for that club.

You are the closest to know what clubs in the bag that feels the best on shaft wgt. When you now see where they others is vs that club, you get a hind about the direction to go for improvements.

But dont forget, this is STATIC fitting, nothing can replace real life testing. Use lead take on the shaft like described in my DIY driver tune up to simulate a higher shaft wgt.

Edited February 28 by Howard_Jones

[AWcOBB]

11 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Plot in what you got on that chart, using play lenght, and uncut shaft wgt for that club.

You are the closest to know what clubs in the bag that feels the best on shaft wgt. When you now see where they others is vs that club, you get a hind about the direction to go for improvements.

But dont forget, this is STATIC fitting, nothing can replace real life testing. Use lead take on the shaft like described in my DIY driver tune up to simulate a higher shaft wgt.

Maybe a dumb question, but if going down in weight on the woods to match weight of my iron shafts how will torque specs affect swing? I know that when you start going into the lighter wood shafts torque goes up quite a bit. Example in the ad vf it goes 3.3 in the 6 series and 4.3 in the 5 series.

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, AWcOBB said:

Maybe a dumb question, but if going down in weight on the woods to match weight of my iron shafts how will torque specs affect swing? I know that when you start going into the lighter wood shafts torque goes up quite a bit. Example in the ad vf it goes 3.3 in the 6 series and 4.3 in the 5 series.

TQ only delivers feel, (impact outside of COG).

[Ty_Guy]

On 1/1/2025 at 10:26 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Just follow Stuarts advice her, im chiming in just to tell a little about shaftweight.

Woods is most often 46" long uncut, while Hybrid shafts is only 42"
That means the numbers we se, is NOT Compatible values.

Your driver shaft
68 grams / 46 inch = 1.48 grams per inch

Your Hybrid shaft
78 grams / 42 inch = 1.86 grams per inch
If that shaft was 46 long uncut, it would be 78/46 = 1.69 grams per inch, so the hybrid is higher in weight than we get the impression of by looking at uncut weight alone. (1.86 grams per inch like it is x 46 like a wood, makes the hybrid shaft to be 86 grams uncut, not only 78 like official specs is)

Here is my shaft wgt progression chart, where the above is taken into consideration, so numbers is still NOT directly comparable, but this is how i expect it to look like, using official uncut wgt numbers.

ITS ONLY a "static fitting", or a quick and dirty start point for testing, not more than that, but it will give you the ball park for what should work, most often within plus minus 5 grams or 1 row to the left or right in the chart.

You can use any club in the bag that really works good to find what row you should look at, driver or irons.
PS its PLAY LENGHTs thats important here, headersto the left side with head numbers is only "suggestions" so use the right row and play lenghts to use the chart right.

@Howard_Jones This is the most recent time your static weight chart has popped up again, so I'll ask here instead of a new thread.

 

Do you find most golfers are playing a driver too heavy for them?

 

I'm speculating, but I see a large majority of players here in the 117-123g iron shaft column, but will be one column over in a 65g driver shaft. The ever popular Ventus Red/Blue/Black 6 are about 65g as are the Tensei 1k Pros. There is a tendency to default to the 60g category with driver shafts. I've been experimenting with 50g driver shaft class and found out that most are uncut around 58/59g. Much closer to a literal 60g shaft than the "60g shaft category" that often weight in the high 60s. I've been seeing great results from one weight class lighter. I had previously brushed off the 50g class under the "senior" and "ladies" misnomer.

 

This seems especially true when playing at 45" to 45.5" stock driver length. I understand static weight is merely a launching point for a dynamic fit, but when I look at your weight chart, what stands out the most is its recommendation to try out a lighter shaft.

Edited June 5 by Ty_Guy

[Howard_Jones]

15 hours ago, Ty_Guy said:

@Howard_Jones This is the most recent time your static weight chart has popped up again, so I'll ask here instead of a new thread.

 

Do you find most golfers are playing a driver too heavy for them?

 

I'm speculating, but I see a large majority of players here in the 117-123g iron shaft column, but will be one column over in a 65g driver shaft. The ever popular Ventus Red/Blue/Black 6 are about 65g as are the Tensei 1k Pros. There is a tendency to default to the 60g category with driver shafts. I've been experimenting with 50g driver shaft class and found out that most are uncut around 58/59g. Much closer to a literal 60g shaft than the "60g shaft category" that often weight in the high 60s. I've been seeing great results from one weight class lighter. I had previously brushed off the 50g class under the "senior" and "ladies" misnomer.

 

This seems especially true when playing at 45" to 45.5" stock driver length. I understand static weight is merely a launching point for a dynamic fit, but when I look at your weight chart, what stands out the most is its recommendation to try out a lighter shaft.

 

Like you already knows, that chart is based on fittings ive done, and is  influenced by what kind of players that was my main customer group. However, all players is individuals, where the amount of power used on the actual club, will influence on what shaft/total/head wgt and MOI value that works the best for them on that club.

 

Some players swing rather controlled with all clubs, others might be smooth with their irons, and close to maniacs with the driver, so the chart is no better than a suggested starting point for testing.

 

It also based on what play lenghts we use, thats why the driver has all those fields, since it vary a lot.

 

We also have the split between old school players who grew up with steel shafted clubs all the way, and those who startet playing when the norm was graphite shafted drivers and woods.

 

The latter group, will often benefit from a steeper shaft and TW progression than old school players, so the chart is also influenced by the norms we had around 2010 to 2015.

 

Ive also said that the chart (even for the players its based on) is plus minus 1 row, or plus minus 5 grams on uncut wgt, so we will hardly ever find examples where the players bags shaft wgt is all from the same row.

 

Again, its only my suggestion for a fast starting point for testing, and i have later found "systems" who might contradict it, like the connection ive found bewteen the driver and the PW.

 

For bags where both the driver and the iron set works very good for the player, we see some numbers that might be easier to navigate by than that chart.

 

Ive found that Driver carry/2 = PW carry, and that driver shaft wgt uncut x 2 = PW shaft wgt uncut.

 

In that scenario. 120 grams iron shaft wgt becomes a 60 gram driver shaft, independant of driver play length, where my chart say 43.75 for a 60 gram shaft for that player, and if actual PL is say 45" we are still only 1 row/5 grams off, and by that, within the "tolerances" given for the chart.

 

I hope that answer your question, since shaft wgt  and shaft wgt progression is probably the hardest specs of them all to make right for each player, where no chart can fully replace the fact that each club is really a fitting object of its own, no matter how much we like to have short cuts to avoid the need for that.