2025 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[puttnforthe8]

Played both courses at WeKoPa - note: it’s been since last summer I played because of cost.

 

They have put a ton of money into the course to clean it up and do some touch ups.  Some of the so so changes was the removal of some saguaro and trees all together. They have removed a lot of brush and chopped tree branches everywhere.  The course looks quite different - very clean lines everywhere now.  
 

small touches like tee cans on the boxes, and a few other things across the property were done.

 

new carts.  New sand on Saguaro for the bunkers.  New drainage.  Lots of rock drainage or to cover up where trees/saguaro were dug up.

 

as for the course, the fairways and greens were flawless.  Nothing out of place.  It was amazing.  Best condition I have ever seen.  Lots of water used to keep green.  Only minor nit was that the fairways were cut in a way that prevented roll, combined with soft fairways it made the purples play LONG!

 

was there for an event and Bill Coore was invited to speak about the course which was awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

[fore_life]

Great pictures, Joe!!

[puttnforthe8]

2 hours ago, fore_life said:

Great pictures, Joe!!

You can sorta get a feel for how much cleaning they have done.  Heaving pruning / thinning of trees; movement of saguaros, lots of shrubbery gone. 

[SilverBullets]

1 hour ago, puttnforthe8 said:

You can sorta get a feel for how much cleaning they have done.  Heaving pruning / thinning of trees; movement of saguaros, lots of shrubbery gone. 

Those are awesome, I'm glad you posted! They needed to do some landscaping. Some of the sight lines were getting overgrown and a bit messy. They also had a lot of dying/rotting saguaros so cleaning that up probably makes a big impact. 

 

I try not to pay attention to things off course which are a little rough but once it gets cleaned up you realize just how much better things look and feel when it gets tidy. Over the past 5ish years you've seen places around the valley put effort into cutting back overgrowth along the holes. TPC Champs has gone so far that they are basically manicuring the desert at this point. They may have gone too far (as evidenced by the monsoon that then wiped out all the trees in wash between the 15 green and 5th fairway/tee because its was unobstructed).  But the course does look great now. 

 

Whirlwind and Aguila both are looking better too now that they've cut the overgrowth back. 

 

You guys are giving me FOMO as I rehab this shoulder surgery

[Baraethon]

8 hours ago, SilverBullets said:

 

 

Whirlwind and Aguila both are looking better too now that they've cut the overgrowth back. 

 

I played Aguila last weekend and was really surprised at some of the jungle areas on the back 9, specifically 12 and 14. Used to be an immediate lost ball if you went in there, seems you could actually find it now.

[Olson12]

I know it’s been said before but Aguila is 10/10 right now.  We’re a few weeks from the Phoenix Am and they have it in great shape! 

[Bonneville85308]

I checked two more courses on the far outskirts of metro Phoenix off my not-yet-played list this weekend, Dave White in Casa Grande and Arizona City Golf Club in Arizona City. Really reaching into the dregs at this point.

 

Dave White is a muni course that is apparently very popular with the snowbird crowd, and there is an active men's club. It's flat property, but the design does work in a few small undulations in the fairways. Only about 5 holes have homes along the side of the fairways. Water is in play on several holes. Conditions were quite scruffy, kinda similar to a lower end Arcis course like Koko without the over-irrigation. Overseeded fairways were inconsistent; some had plenty of burnt out/bare spots, some were actually nice. Greens were public course average speed and in good enough condition except for a couple that had dead spots marked GUR. Tees were OK. Dormant bermuda rough was starting to come alive, but was very sparse and on most holes once you are 20+ feet off the fairway (or some immediately off the fairway) you are on bare dirt. Also bare dirt between tee and fairway on most holes. I only recall seeing a couple greenside bunkers out there, and they didn't look great.  $37/riding or $27/walking was a good deal for a Saturday morning. After I arrived a bit earlier than necessary, the guy in the shop was nice enough to move my time up to join the lead threesome. Finished in about 3:15. Decent cheapo round if you find yourself in the CG area and can't get a tee time at Robson Ranch, otherwise skip it.

 

 

Arizona City is an odd place. Sort of a half-undeveloped scruffy town in the middle of nowhere south of CG and west of Eloy that attracts a lot of what I'm guessing are a lot of snowbirds of very modest means. You can buy a small, brand new house for $250k. It does have a golf course, designed by Jack Snyder in 1963. Apparently it had closed for a 2 year period in the early 2020s but has reopened and was saved by the local community. It is flat as a pancake and pretty featureless except for an "island tee" on #9 and two par 3's over water. Houses (or vacant lots) surround every hole. Grass isn't in abundance here. Fairways had a very patchy overseed that seemed like it mostly never grew in at all in large areas, or was starting the process of burning off for summer. I'd say half or more of the fairway area is bare or cooked to a crisp. You could hit a great drive and get a ton of roll, or have it deflect 90 degrees sideways off a patch of dirt in the fairway. Tees had a decent overseed. Greens were the relatively best part, they were very slow and velcro-like but had pretty good grass coverage. All of the bunkers on the course were grassed over at some point. Rough was non-existent, generally just bare dirt. Course was fairly empty in the afternoon, I played through a couple groups and finished in less than 2 hours. After a few holes I decided I wanted to get this one over with fast and go home. $47 with cart was a ripoff for the conditions. One of those dust bowl courses where you have to wipe down your golf bag and your exposed skin with a wet towel after the round before you get in your car. Skip it even if it's free unless you are a completist like me. I'll play anything once and have low standards, but if I had to play this as my home course, I'd quit.

 

[AzSuperHack76]

Wigwam Gold yesterday. It's in really solid shape. Greens really firmed up as the day heated up but were still very playable. Tee'd off around 9, finished in exactly 4 hours. 

[Bonneville85308]

Verrado Founders this morning. First time I played it since fall 2019. I had forgotten how easy it is to get in trouble on some shots that otherwise look benign if you don't know the right lines and the way the ball tends to kick and roll off certain parts of the fairways. Course was in excellent condition all around. Really nothing to nitpick other than a few saturated fairways. Greens were average public course speed. Bermuda rough was starting to green up a bit but still mostly at hardpan height. Tees, fairways, bunkers, greens, all great. 

 

$99+ tax was a good deal for the conditions and time of year. Played as a twosome at our own pace, never saw the group behind, didn't see the group ahead until our 18th hole. They had everyone starting on #10 today. Staff were very outgoing and helpful. Plenty of drinking water out there plus a bev cart.

 

Edited April 24 by Bonneville85308

[teejaywhy]

On 4/20/2025 at 6:59 PM, Bonneville85308 said:

I checked two more courses on the far outskirts of metro Phoenix off my not-yet-played list this weekend, Dave White in Casa Grande and Arizona City Golf Club in Arizona City. Really reaching into the dregs at this point.

 

So I have this loose idea to try and play every course in Arizona and these two are on the list; but, confirmed by your descriptions, they are not at the top of the list LOL.  I should play AZ City because it will likely be NLE before too long, although I guess that's one way to check it off the list.  

 

Thanks for taking one for the team!

 

Edited April 24 by teejaywhy

[southpaw72]

Need help with a decision. TS O’odham or WKP saguaro? Haven’t played either in a decade. I’m a card holding memeber of the C&C fan club but probably on have time for one this trip 

[hackeraz]

8 minutes ago, southpaw72 said:

Need help with a decision. TS O’odham or WKP saguaro? Haven’t played either in a decade. I’m a card holding memeber of the C&C fan club but probably on have time for one this trip 

Saguaro hands down. 

[cbbaron]

5 hours ago, southpaw72 said:

Need help with a decision. TS O’odham or WKP saguaro? Haven’t played either in a decade. I’m a card holding memeber of the C&C fan club but probably on have time for one this trip 

Saguaro and its not even close

[southpaw72]

Well in true problem solving fashion I’ve booked both for that weekend lol

[robotfood540]

Heading out next weekend. Playing Eagle Mountain Thursday and either Boulders South or Whirlwind Cattail on Friday. Anyone know how those courses are playing? Might let conditions dictate where to play on Friday.

[puttnforthe8]

1 hour ago, robotfood540 said:

Heading out next weekend. Playing Eagle Mountain Thursday and either Boulders South or Whirlwind Cattail on Friday. Anyone know how those courses are playing? Might let conditions dictate where to play on Friday.

Cattail just held LPGA event and is /was in great shape except all the places they had stands and stuff up that they tore out grass and such.  Mostly aesthetic! Doesn’t affect the playing areas much.  
 

Who knows about Boulders.  Locals don’t play it at those prices.  But prob its usual wet and green shape with yellowing starting.

[robotfood540]

2 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Cattail just held LPGA event and is /was in great shape except all the places they had stands and stuff up that they tore out grass and such.  Mostly aesthetic! Doesn’t affect the playing areas much.  
 

Who knows about Boulders.  Locals don’t play it at those prices.  But prob its usual wet and green shape with yellowing starting.

Thanks! Ya not thrilled with the price of Boulders, but it looks scenic. We'll be out for a bachelor party and def want the scenery. Unfortunately the We Ko Pas of the area of have been booked solid for over 8 weeks, something I was not prepared for!

[Baraethon]

Aguila yesterday, reminded why I don't typically play weekend afternoons - fully a 5 hour round. Luckily, the weather was amazing, the course was in fantastic shape, and the company was good so it was hard to be too mad about it. 

[Hageman11]

23 hours ago, robotfood540 said:

Thanks! Ya not thrilled with the price of Boulders, but it looks scenic. We'll be out for a bachelor party and def want the scenery. Unfortunately the We Ko Pas of the area of have been booked solid for over 8 weeks, something I was not prepared for!

If you are looking for scenery and a bachelor party then Boulders would be the place if you can stomach the green fees and beer prices.  Tell your crew to fill your coolers in the restaurant before going out and buying from bev cart....trust me

[puttnforthe8]

On 4/27/2025 at 3:02 PM, robotfood540 said:

Thanks! Ya not thrilled with the price of Boulders, but it looks scenic. We'll be out for a bachelor party and def want the scenery. Unfortunately the We Ko Pas of the area of have been booked solid for over 8 weeks, something I was not prepared for!

I would suggest you look into Dino Mountain over Boulders if scenery is truly important to you.  Price should be better as well.

[SilverBullets]

On 4/27/2025 at 10:29 AM, robotfood540 said:

Heading out next weekend. Playing Eagle Mountain Thursday and either Boulders South or Whirlwind Cattail on Friday. Anyone know how those courses are playing? Might let conditions dictate where to play on Friday.

Cattail is a better golf course but Boulders is more pretty. Living here and having to pay these greens fees prices, I'd play Cattail 50 times for every one time I'll play at Boulders. 

[SilverBullets]

On 4/25/2025 at 1:14 PM, southpaw72 said:

Need help with a decision. TS O’odham or WKP saguaro? Haven’t played either in a decade. I’m a card holding memeber of the C&C fan club but probably on have time for one this trip 

If I had 100 rounds to play, I'd play 99 at Saguaro and 1 at TS just to remind me why I played the other 99 at WKP

[southpaw72]

3 hours ago, SilverBullets said:

If I had 100 rounds to play, I'd play 99 at Saguaro and 1 at TS just to remind me why I played the other 99 at WKP

That bad? I know the parkland course is whatever but I played either in a very very long time. I thought oodham was just fine/good? 

[SilverBullets]

1 hour ago, southpaw72 said:

That bad? I know the parkland course is whatever but I played either in a very very long time. I thought oodham was just fine/good? 

Its not that its bad... Saguaro is just really good. Talking Stick is a terrible plot of land for a golf course. It's flat as a pancake. C&C were probably the wrong guys to select for designing a course on a near perfectly flat plot of land (never thought I'd say that as they are my favorite designers). The design and layouts are fine. They were just severely limited by how bad the land is and since they don't like a move dirt, the course is just flat.

 

I find the TS course to be fine but relatively unmemorable, flat, and a bit crammed. 

 

Pace of play is also a gigantic issue there. I stopped going to TS (I only golf on weekends) because rounds are routinely 5 hours. 

Edited April 29 by SilverBullets

[southpaw72]

1 hour ago, SilverBullets said:

Pace of play is also a gigantic issue there. I stopped going to TS (I only golf on weekends) because rounds are routinely 5 hours. 

I knew it was flat but this is concerning. I have a mid day round on Friday so hopefully it’ll play closer to 4 lol. 
 

I think I’ll keep both times but obviously expect to enjoy saguaro more. C&C is by far my favorite architect as well!

[puttnforthe8]

6 hours ago, SilverBullets said:

Its not that its bad... Saguaro is just really good. Talking Stick is a terrible plot of land for a golf course. It's flat as a pancake. C&C were probably the wrong guys to select for designing a course on a near perfectly flat plot of land (never thought I'd say that as they are my favorite designers). The design and layouts are fine. They were just severely limited by how bad the land is and since they don't like a move dirt, the course is just flat.

 

I find the TS course to be fine but relatively unmemorable, flat, and a bit crammed. 

 

Pace of play is also a gigantic issue there. I stopped going to TS (I only golf on weekends) because rounds are routinely 5 hours. 

Was at a lunch with Coore 2 weeks ago and he stated that he thought Talking Stick was possibly a better accomplishment than WeKoPa.  The reason, as noted, he said they put a soda can at one end of the property and went to the other end and they were able to see the can.  It is truly completely flat!!! He said they were able To create a good course on that land that many enjoy and gets tons of play (as stated)!  So basically perspective…Saguaro had everything for them to work with.  Both nations gave them unlimited autonomy to do as they please with the properties.

 

Saguaro is 100s times better.  But it was an interesting comment by BC.

[SilverBullets]

18 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Was at a lunch with Coore 2 weeks ago and he stated that he thought Talking Stick was possibly a better accomplishment than WeKoPa.  The reason, as noted, he said they put a soda can at one end of the property and went to the other end and they were able to see the can.  It is truly completely flat!!! He said they were able To create a good course on that land that many enjoy and gets tons of play (as stated)!  So basically perspective…Saguaro had everything for them to work with.  Both nations gave them unlimited autonomy to do as they please with the properties.

 

Saguaro is 100s times better.  But it was an interesting comment by BC.

It makes perfect sense. They did build an interesting, challenging enough, 36-hole complex on a just dead pan flat piece of desert. So, I can see how that would be a massive accomplishment for them. To be able to make something out of nothing is an accomplishment. You can really appreciate had bad the plot of land is on the holes around the perimeter which are completely unobstructed lol 

 

But yeah Saguaro is just better lol. 

[Bonneville85308]

Coyote Lakes early this morning. The good news is that since my last visit maybe 3-4 weeks ago they've redone most if not all of the front nine bunkers with a TPC Scottsdale-style sand that was great to hit out of. Before, they were total hardpan. Greens were in excellent condition but pretty slow. Fairways & rough were fine, the winter rye is still hanging in there well. Still kinda firm with rollout and not saturated. 3:45 pace, but waited on every single shot, and the back nine was slower than the front once we hit the wall of "back nine and breakfast" people. Couldn't get any rhythm going. I know, I shouldn't complain about 3:45.

Edited May 4 by Bonneville85308

[puttnforthe8]

GC of Estrella.  Just terrible tee to green!  Brutal tee boxes-I think every single one needs to be redone.  Fairways just bad-divots not fixed from days/weeks ago, either bare, good or wet.  Rough inconsistent throughout.  Bunkers—-worst in AZ. Greens so inconsistent, bumpy, old cups not repaired properly, pits/depressions on greens.  
 

I think I am done ever going out there until I hear of improvements - drastic!!!