Colorado WRX 2025

[MickeyTankBank]

7 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

There's no way I could putt better with those because they are the ugliest things on the planet.

 

[ASak10]

I played CG yesterday (was an absolutely perfect day!) and got paired with a guy who had one of the giant, saucer like LAB putters.  I told my buddy that I don't care if I would never ever three putt using one of those things...I'd rather three putt every green than play with one of those.  I just couldn't do it.  

Edited March 4 by ASak10

[jda]

9 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

I love this. My hands absolutely want a heavier head and a way to feel the face via a weight "imbalance." I love the look of the old putters but I hate how light they are.

 

The new one will be slightly lighter because the bodies are more than 20g lighter. This means that my old 2014 has 30g weights, the new one will have 40g weights and the old one will still be heavier. Overall there's a tradeoff of higher MOI from perimeter weighting so I'll take it.

 

You might really love the lighter putter in time.  It is weird at first, for sure.  Most people think that it is easier to control distance with a 330-350g putter.  Now that MOI has been proven to not really matter in putting the extra weight and dulled sensations from heavy milling seem to be falling out of favor for those who need more touch/feel for distance control.  If you were always a good lag putter, then none of this might matter to you.  I am not a great lag putter with anything over 360g and I prefer around 340g putter.

 

Lighter putters seem universally loved on super-fast greens.  Most 009, Rats, etc from SC (blades) and the tour stuff from other companies are like 340-350g and have lightly milled faces for superior feedback and touch.  The pros that you these want them light, for the most part.

 

What weight is the new putter?  I want to try one of those carbon insert ones and will head to Walnut Creek when they come out.  I love carbon putters for the feedback and never felt a stainless body with carbon insert.

 

There are studies like crazy that show that you need to miss the center of a bullseye putter by 18mm to miss a 10 foot putt.  There are variations in the grass grain, a tiny sand pebble and other things that factor in more.  Face contact just is not important if you get the face square, pace and line right.  MOI is a sales tool as long as you don't miss the sweet spot of the club by more than 1/2 of an inch - and answer type of clubs have more perimeter weighting than a bullseye and it is more like an inch.  I don't have the links, but Dan Carraher used to post them and probably can search easy.  He also has conducted some of his own with the pros that he teaches.

 

High MOI clubs can feel softer, but they don't make more putts and that soft feel can hurt you were touch is important like lags and speedy greens.  Soft feeling putters sell better.

 

The more that I studied this, even path does not matter by it's self.  You can have an inside out or outside in putting path up to like 30 degree (which is insane) to miss a 10 foot putt and like 10 degrees for a 30 foot putt (still kinda insane).  Squaring the face, pace and line... about it.  Lie angle can be big, but that should have gotten addressed before anybody hit the course.  Bad path can jack with a square face since most folks want to square the face to the path and not the target - the best reason to fix the path.  If you can still square the face to the target independent of the path then a a few degrees cannot mess you up - some really great putters were a few degrees inside out.

 

If you need the new putter heavier, you can buy some aftermarket weights, drill them out the back side of them and put tungsten or lead in the drill holes.  I have a bench top drill press if you ever need to borrow it.

[bobbyclampett!!]

10 hours ago, jda said:

 

You might really love the lighter putter in time.  It is weird at first, for sure.  Most people think that it is easier to control distance with a 330-350g putter.  Now that MOI has been proven to not really matter in putting the extra weight and dulled sensations from heavy milling seem to be falling out of favor for those who need more touch/feel for distance control.  If you were always a good lag putter, then none of this might matter to you.  I am not a great lag putter with anything over 360g and I prefer around 340g putter.

 

Lighter putters seem universally loved on super-fast greens.  Most 009, Rats, etc from SC (blades) and the tour stuff from other companies are like 340-350g and have lightly milled faces for superior feedback and touch.  The pros that you these want them light, for the most part.

 

What weight is the new putter?  I want to try one of those carbon insert ones and will head to Walnut Creek when they come out.  I love carbon putters for the feedback and never felt a stainless body with carbon insert.

 

There are studies like crazy that show that you need to miss the center of a bullseye putter by 18mm to miss a 10 foot putt.  There are variations in the grass grain, a tiny sand pebble and other things that factor in more.  Face contact just is not important if you get the face square, pace and line right.  MOI is a sales tool as long as you don't miss the sweet spot of the club by more than 1/2 of an inch - and answer type of clubs have more perimeter weighting than a bullseye and it is more like an inch.  I don't have the links, but Dan Carraher used to post them and probably can search easy.  He also has conducted some of his own with the pros that he teaches.

 

High MOI clubs can feel softer, but they don't make more putts and that soft feel can hurt you were touch is important like lags and speedy greens.  Soft feeling putters sell better.

 

The more that I studied this, even path does not matter by it's self.  You can have an inside out or outside in putting path up to like 30 degree (which is insane) to miss a 10 foot putt and like 10 degrees for a 30 foot putt (still kinda insane).  Squaring the face, pace and line... about it.  Lie angle can be big, but that should have gotten addressed before anybody hit the course.  Bad path can jack with a square face since most folks want to square the face to the path and not the target - the best reason to fix the path.  If you can still square the face to the target independent of the path then a a few degrees cannot mess you up - some really great putters were a few degrees inside out.

 

If you need the new putter heavier, you can buy some aftermarket weights, drill them out the back side of them and put tungsten or lead in the drill holes.  I have a bench top drill press if you ever need to borrow it.

This^^ I got sucked into the higher MOI craze when the Spiders came out. I thought they looked cool and liked the idea of my hands kind of even with the face or slightly behind the ball, rather than even with the ball or the shaft leaned forward slightly. I'm not sure if I was able to hit my start line better than I did with my Anser. Maybe, but I felt like that was the head and hosel shape more than any added MOI. I still remember the putt that ended the big mallet/high MOI experiment. It was like a slippery, right to left breaking downhill 4 footer that needed to be played oustide the hole. Had to match line and speed perfectly with a delicate touch. I was clueless. I hit a truly pathetic putt with no feel, and realized high MOI isn't everything (and maybe it's nothing!). Went back to my Anser and have never looked back. Maybe (maybe!) a Spider might do better on one of those indoor Perfect Practice putting mats where you just bang a dead straight putt over a hole six feet away with no regard for speed, but man, that ain't real putting.

[Joelness]

13 hours ago, jda said:

 

You might really love the lighter putter in time.  It is weird at first, for sure.  Most people think that it is easier to control distance with a 330-350g putter.  Now that MOI has been proven to not really matter in putting the extra weight and dulled sensations from heavy milling seem to be falling out of favor for those who need more touch/feel for distance control.  If you were always a good lag putter, then none of this might matter to you.  I am not a great lag putter with anything over 360g and I prefer around 340g putter.

 

Lighter putters seem universally loved on super-fast greens.  Most 009, Rats, etc from SC (blades) and the tour stuff from other companies are like 340-350g and have lightly milled faces for superior feedback and touch.  The pros that you these want them light, for the most part.

 

What weight is the new putter?  I want to try one of those carbon insert ones and will head to Walnut Creek when they come out.  I love carbon putters for the feedback and never felt a stainless body with carbon insert.

 

There are studies like crazy that show that you need to miss the center of a bullseye putter by 18mm to miss a 10 foot putt.  There are variations in the grass grain, a tiny sand pebble and other things that factor in more.  Face contact just is not important if you get the face square, pace and line right.  MOI is a sales tool as long as you don't miss the sweet spot of the club by more than 1/2 of an inch - and answer type of clubs have more perimeter weighting than a bullseye and it is more like an inch.  I don't have the links, but Dan Carraher used to post them and probably can search easy.  He also has conducted some of his own with the pros that he teaches.

 

High MOI clubs can feel softer, but they don't make more putts and that soft feel can hurt you were touch is important like lags and speedy greens.  Soft feeling putters sell better.

 

The more that I studied this, even path does not matter by it's self.  You can have an inside out or outside in putting path up to like 30 degree (which is insane) to miss a 10 foot putt and like 10 degrees for a 30 foot putt (still kinda insane).  Squaring the face, pace and line... about it.  Lie angle can be big, but that should have gotten addressed before anybody hit the course.  Bad path can jack with a square face since most folks want to square the face to the path and not the target - the best reason to fix the path.  If you can still square the face to the target independent of the path then a a few degrees cannot mess you up - some really great putters were a few degrees inside out.

 

If you need the new putter heavier, you can buy some aftermarket weights, drill them out the back side of them and put tungsten or lead in the drill holes.  I have a bench top drill press if you ever need to borrow it.

 

I've tried to love the lighter putters but I just don't. At this point I know what I like and I'm a solid putter so there's 0 chance I go much lighter. My gamer is a 2014 with 30g weights, the fitter guessed it was about 370g. The new one will be a little lighter, they put 40g weights in it and it was still lighter than my current head so ~360g-365g. It felt close enough to be good for me.

 

For the most part I agree on ten footers. My problem is the 10'-30' range. To your point, even at that range a putter change like this going to make a minimal difference in any direction as to be laughable. However, it ended up with me having a cool chance to check things out and get a chance to replace the gamer with a new model. The carbon does feel a bit softer, but it wasn't a big difference in my hands. The sound and overall feel are still there. 

[jda]

360g is nothing.  🙂  Some folks play 390-440g putters - this is where most feel and distance control is lost especially with the heavy milled faces which dull things even more.

 

If you talk to some of the pros about their high MOI mallets, they just like the larger head to aim the ball.  The good putters that use them still use flow and plumbers necks, so they have plenty of torque - Good putting Rory, Xander, etc.

 

I still think that liking what you are looking down at is more than half of it.  I can square a face with anything that I have tried so far from 8802 to LAB, so easy for me to say right?  Jailbird was a failed putter from early 2010s until Wyndham Clark grabbed one from a buddy and won with it and now it is hot again... this is a good argument for comfort > tech, but I guess that pros probably have good-enough strokes, can square a face and can read greens.

 

Flanagan should be done with my bb5 soon.  Excited to get to know it.

 

Thanks for nerding out on putters with me.  Helped to kill some of a winter's day.

[jda]

Appraised a few DR Horton homes in a new community in Berthoud and they get full access to the TPC Colorado fitness center, clubhouse and pool.  They get some sort of cheap(er) rounds of golf too, although not members.  I know that TPCs do not fail with PGA money behind them, but this tells me that they are hurting a bit, maybe?  Cannot imagine that members are happy that their clubhouse is now the clubhouse of the neighborhood nearby.. or maybe they are since other folks are chipping in money. Anybody know any details?

[MickeyTankBank]

7 minutes ago, jda said:

Appraised a few DR Horton homes in a new community in Berthoud and they get full access to the TPC Colorado fitness center, clubhouse and pool.  They get some sort of cheap(er) rounds of golf too, although not members.  I know that TPCs do not fail with PGA money behind them, but this tells me that they are hurting a bit, maybe?  Cannot imagine that members are happy that their clubhouse is now the clubhouse of the neighborhood nearby.. or maybe they are since other folks are chipping in money. Anybody know any details?

 

Oh another appraiser in here? That's good to see.

[Double Mocha Man]

46 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

Oh another appraiser in here? That's good to see.

 

Appraisers.  Why won't you guys factor in my water view for an extra few hundred thousands?  Had a recent appraisal and the gal never once looked out my front windows... I was watching her head and eyes.

[MickeyTankBank]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Appraisers.  Why won't you guys factor in my water view for an extra few hundred thousands?  Had a recent appraisal and the gal never once looked out my front windows... I was watching her head and eyes.

 

Not everyone is good at their job

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

Not everyone is good at their job

 

Thanks, that is reassuring.

[MickeyTankBank]

15 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Thanks, that is reassuring.

 

I've been to continuing education classes and hear some of the questions that get asked. I've also reviewed some stuff over the years and see the barebones stuff that some people write up. It makes you just shake your head.

[Double Mocha Man]

9 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

I've been to continuing education classes and hear some of the questions that get asked. I've also reviewed some stuff over the years and see the barebones stuff that some people write up. It makes you just shake your head.

 

When I Google "sales price of homes with water views" I consistently get an answer that says it increases their value by a quarter to a third.

 

When I had this last appraisal for a refinance the guy I was working with went to bat for me and contested the appraisal and got it raised from $1 million to $1.2 million because of the view.  I have a real estate friend who says he could get $1.3 million for the house even though he knows I have no plans of selling.

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Double Mocha Man

[MickeyTankBank]

17 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

When I Google "sales price of homes with water views" I consistently get an answer that says it increases their value by a quarter to a third.

 

When I had this last appraisal for a refinance the guy I was working with went to bat for me and contested the appraisal and got it raised from $1 million to $1.2 million because of the view.  I have a real estate friend who says he could get $1.3 million for the house even though he knows I have no plans of selling.

 

 

 

 

It's always going to depend on the market area. A house with views like your pic, 20-30% difference could be possible and could be defended by the appraiser. A suburban house that can see a pond/lake in the park across the street, probably not going to be the same.

[jda]

Almost daily I get to hear about everybody's million dollar view on a home that they just purchased for $500k.  Had a dude last week tell me that he had the best lot on THE BEST golf course in Colorado - Eaton Country Club (he was being serious).  Never once heard anybody tell me that their view sucked... when most of them are not special at all.

 

If the appraiser was any good, they picked other homes with similar views where it is all baked in.

 

...and not everybody is good at their jobs.

 

With golf courses, you need to be careful.  Some lots that are really close to the course can be a problem - think of hole 17 at Mariana... those can be hard to sell in a down market with lots of listing to choose from.

[Double Mocha Man]

8 minutes ago, jda said:

Almost daily I get to hear about everybody's million dollar view on a home that they just purchased for $500k.  Had a dude last week tell me that he had the best lot on THE BEST golf course in Colorado - Eaton Country Club (he was being serious).  Never once heard anybody tell me that their view sucked... when most of them are not special at all.

 

If the appraiser was any good, they picked other homes with similar views where it is all baked in.

 

...and not everybody is good at their jobs.

 

With golf courses, you need to be careful.  Some lots that are really close to the course can be a problem - think of hole 17 at Mariana... those can be hard to sell in a down market with lots of listing to choose from.

 

There are two nearby golf courses that closed during Covid that were ringed by houses with this wonderful green space in front of their homes... i.e. fairways.  The land has now been bought up and developers want to build on the open space.  The homeowners are taking them to court... they thought their pristine views would last into infinity.

[MickeyTankBank]

44 minutes ago, jda said:

Almost daily I get to hear about everybody's million dollar view on a home that they just purchased for $500k.  Had a dude last week tell me that he had the best lot on THE BEST golf course in Colorado - Eaton Country Club (he was being serious).  Never once heard anybody tell me that their view sucked... when most of them are not special at all.

 

If the appraiser was any good, they picked other homes with similar views where it is all baked in.

 

...and not everybody is good at their jobs.

 

With golf courses, you need to be careful.  Some lots that are really close to the course can be a problem - think of hole 17 at Mariana... those can be hard to sell in a down market with lots of listing to choose from.

 

I had one today when I was looking through the comps one of them mentioned the "beautiful mountain vistas". Surprisingly there wasn't a pic of these amazing views in the listing from this normal interior lot surrounded by other homes. 

[CDM]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:30 PM, Joelness said:

 

I've tried to love the lighter putters but I just don't. At this point I know what I like and I'm a solid putter so there's 0 chance I go much lighter. My gamer is a 2014 with 30g weights, the fitter guessed it was about 370g. The new one will be a little lighter, they put 40g weights in it and it was still lighter than my current head so ~360g-365g. It felt close enough to be good for me.

 

For the most part I agree on ten footers. My problem is the 10'-30' range. To your point, even at that range a putter change like this going to make a minimal difference in any direction as to be laughable. However, it ended up with me having a cool chance to check things out and get a chance to replace the gamer with a new model. The carbon does feel a bit softer, but it wasn't a big difference in my hands. The sound and overall feel are still there. 

 

@Joelness I am sure you have but do change the weights on your SC? 

 

I have at times.  I bought different weights for the heads to try. Not true SC weights to save cost but ones off Amazon and found using my scale most are dead on spec wise, shocking I know.   *Granted 25 gram, they showed up 29 and 24...returned those. 

 

*Messing around also tried different weights in toe / heel which and shockingly itworks well to control the face so if you close down or open it at impact you can fix that abit without chaning your natural storke. 

 

My game I am better in the 350 to 360 range. 

 

 I did find (for me) on slow greens a lighter settup seemed to help, but on fast greens I was all over the place. On fast greens it felt like I loose the feel of the head Ie touch control. PD greens I find heavier works way better for me as I like more control on "touch" putts for breaks and a lighter head I lost what I precieved as "touch" on those.

 

Side note: We played South Suburban last Saturday, holy h*ll some greens were as fast as the kitchen table and with the slopes out there,  2  greens we just walked off.  One hole all of us were around the hole and all us putted off the green.  It would roll up and roll back off 🤣 

[pseudoswede]

19 hours ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

I had one today when I was looking through the comps one of them mentioned the "beautiful mountain vistas". Surprisingly there wasn't a pic of these amazing views in the listing from this normal interior lot surrounded by other homes. 

 

I'm sure it's there. You just need to use a step stool in the guest bedroom, look out the upper right corner of the window, and angle your head just right.

[jda]

Golf show had more courses this year, but not many deals.  Most courses just there to talk to folks.  I was disappointed.

 

Lakewood Golf had $140 foursome plus bucket of balls anytime M-R, F-Sun after 1:00 - cart not included - for Fox Hollow or Homestead.  Applewood had $150 for foursome with cart (I think.)  Fox Acres had some multi-pack punch cards, but I did not even look with my bad experience with them last year.

 

You can still get siding, windows, guttering, kitchen knives, essential oils and a $149 weekend in Breckenridge if you listen to their timeshare presentation.

 

It was better than work, but might need to take a few years off unless I need something.  Got some NB Fresh Foam shoes for $40 at the Buffalo Trace booth who easily have the best deals on top quality merch every year if you don't mind their logo on it..

[pseudoswede]

CGA auction has some decent deals...if you don't get outbid... https://app.charityauctionstoday.com/auctions/2025-cga-season-kick-off-silent-auction-44012

[pseudoswede]

10 minutes ago, jda said:

You can still get siding, windows, guttering, kitchen knives, essential oils and a $149 weekend in Breckenridge if you listen to their timeshare presentation.

 

I love going to the Stock Show, but I swear only like 10 out of the 1000 booths are actually related to Ranching and Farming.

[seven dewey]

Geez, I haven’t checked on this thread and it turned into the Putters/Real Estate forum. 😁
 

I can’t really contribute as my dream home is a cabin in the woods and I’ll only give up my Bettinardi when you pry it from my cold dead hands. 

[Joelness]

Alright, how many got out this weekend? I wasn't planning on playing Saturday but when I saw sun an 53 with low wind I couldn't help myself. 

 

I'm not playing great but my game is pretty solid for early March. I think my last 4 are 74, 72, 71, 72. Typical March though, as the feel stuff just isn't there and needs more reps. I must say, doing Physical Therapy/Training has definitely helped the overall body movements. It has been nice to not make a major swing change and just focus on how the body works to improve my game that way. Not only have I picked up club speed (which I wasn't looking for,) I will be less injury prone, and my body will fire more consistently. If I can afford it I will go for a long time.

 

Downside.... I'm a lot more sore than I used to be on the reg 

[ASak10]

On 2/26/2025 at 10:49 AM, TheKrushh said:

Anyone know somewhere in the Denver area that has the Toloun 25 putters in stock or available to look at? I really like a couple of their models but I hate ordering blind. Also, shut up @CDM

 

Just a follow up on this, I went to the golf expo Friday and the Lenny's area had Toulon putters on the rack.  So you may want to call them and see what they have in stock/available to hit.

Edited March 10 by ASak10

[seven dewey]

17 hours ago, Joelness said:

Alright, how many got out this weekend? I wasn't planning on playing Saturday but when I saw sun an 53 with low wind I couldn't help myself. 

 

I'm not playing great but my game is pretty solid for early March. I think my last 4 are 74, 72, 71, 72. Typical March though, as the feel stuff just isn't there and needs more reps. I must say, doing Physical Therapy/Training has definitely helped the overall body movements. It has been nice to not make a major swing change and just focus on how the body works to improve my game that way. Not only have I picked up club speed (which I wasn't looking for,) I will be less injury prone, and my body will fire more consistently. If I can afford it I will go for a long time.

 

Downside.... I'm a lot more sore than I used to be on the reg 

I was technically on a golf course yesterday, but not sure I was actually playing golf. Lost straight up to my buddy who was getting 7 strokes on me. He also showed up with his brand new custom LAB OZ1i straight out of the box and put on a clinic with that thing. 

[jda]

Just HS golf today at Twin Peaks.  With the wind blowing on those mounded/elevated greens, some balls would not stop and just rolled all the way off.  The kids had it tough.

 

Going to try for Tomorrow or Wednesday, so my apologies when I jinx any of you with high wind.

[MickeyTankBank]

19 hours ago, Joelness said:

Alright, how many got out this weekend? I wasn't planning on playing Saturday but when I saw sun an 53 with low wind I couldn't help myself. 

 

I'm not playing great but my game is pretty solid for early March. I think my last 4 are 74, 72, 71, 72. Typical March though, as the feel stuff just isn't there and needs more reps. I must say, doing Physical Therapy/Training has definitely helped the overall body movements. It has been nice to not make a major swing change and just focus on how the body works to improve my game that way. Not only have I picked up club speed (which I wasn't looking for,) I will be less injury prone, and my body will fire more consistently. If I can afford it I will go for a long time.

 

Downside.... I'm a lot more sore than I used to be on the reg 

 

I didn't. Tweaked my arm bowling too much this week. Had a tee time at Todd Creek for Sunday but had to skip it. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

21 hours ago, Joelness said:

Alright, how many got out this weekend? I wasn't planning on playing Saturday but when I saw sun an 53 with low wind I couldn't help myself. 

 

I'm not playing great but my game is pretty solid for early March. I think my last 4 are 74, 72, 71, 72. Typical March though, as the feel stuff just isn't there and needs more reps. I must say, doing Physical Therapy/Training has definitely helped the overall body movements. It has been nice to not make a major swing change and just focus on how the body works to improve my game that way. Not only have I picked up club speed (which I wasn't looking for,) I will be less injury prone, and my body will fire more consistently. If I can afford it I will go for a long time.

 

Downside.... I'm a lot more sore than I used to be on the reg 

Played nine Sunday morning at Collindale. Weather was amazing. Course still in early spring shape. I played much better than last week after a friend looked at my swing and gave me some feedback and I got to hit some balls last week. I had gotten way off over the winter just focusing on path and face numbers indoors. My first two rounds of the year were super ugly. Shot 40 on Sunday with two doubles, a bogey and a birdie. 

[seven dewey]

22 hours ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

I didn't. Tweaked my arm bowling too much this week. Had a tee time at Todd Creek for Sunday but had to skip it. 

I wish my golf game was anywhere close to as good as my bowling game has been as of late. Probably doesn’t hurt to be in 2 leagues, where as my golf was non existent since October until the past 2 weeks