Difference between a Ping Eye 2 and Eye 2 +

[wings02]

Is the only difference between  the Ping Eye Two and Eye 2+ just the square grooves as compared to the V grooves? Thanks for any input!

[NRJyzr]

3 hours ago, wings02 said:

Is the only difference between  the Ping Eye Two and Eye 2+ just the square grooves as compared to the V grooves? Thanks for any input!

 

The history of the Eye2 is a bit of a rabbit hole by itself.  🙂

 

The first edition of the Eye2 had v grooves, these lasted for a couple years.  Every model after that has some form of square grooves, both Eye2 and Eye2+.  

 

The Eye2+ have slightly stronger lofts, and the sole grind of the 8i thru the wedges are different.  Easiest way to see the difference is looking at pics 2nd Swing likes to use of the entire set from the sole, comparing an Eye2 set with an Eye2+ set.

 

There's also a subtle difference in the cavity between the two.  I've heard some say the plus model is slightly larger, but I don't know if that's actually true; I've not compared them in hand myself.

 

And...  there are other "sub-models" in the universe.  Eye2+no+ and Eye2 Dot being the main two.

 

I'll dig up the lofts from my laptop and share them...

 

Edited January 12 by NRJyzr

[NRJyzr]

Here are the relative specs:

 

Here's a sole shot of the Eye2:

 

And a sole shot of Eye2+:

 

The next two will show the subtle cavity difference I mentioned.  Note the shape of the "eye" in the cavity.  first Eye2+, then Eye2.  The shape of the eye runs parallel to the topline a little longer on the Eye2 than it does on the Eye2+:

 

 

 

 

And...  the Eye2 v-groove clubhead.  Note the stamping on the topline being upside down, compared to the Eye2 and Eye2+.

 

Edited January 12 by NRJyzr

[NRJyzr]

And lastly, a writeup from Equip2golf.com, having some more details of the progression.  Probably should have just shared this in my first post, LOL.

 

 

Year	Description
1982-1984	Original. The first Eye2 iron. Made from 1982-1984. This patent pending design featured "V" grooves.
1984-1985	U Groove. The second Eye2 iron featuring "U" grooves. The result of the 1984 USGA ruling allowing square grooves. Made from the middle of 1984 to the fall of 1985. US Patent D276644. Other patents pending.
1984-1985	EZ Lite. A version of the "U Groove" featuring a lighter swingweight, the result of a slightly smaller head. The shaft featured an "EZ-Lite" band. Made from the middle of 1984 to the fall of 1985.
1985-1990	Square Groove. Design is identical to the "U Groove" with the only change ocurring in the grooves. The change involed modifying the groove by creating a slight radius at the top of the groove. This new model is referred to as the "Square Groove". This change reduced the amount of surface area between the groove but did not change the distance between the inside edges of the grooves. Made from the fall of 1985 to the spring of 1990. US Patents D4512577 and D276644.
1986	Eye2 Beryllium Copper. Patent pending design identical to the stainless steel "Square Groove" but made from Beryllium Copper.
1987	Eye2 Beryllium Copper. Patented design identical to the "Square Groove" design but made from Beryllium Copper. US Patents D4512577 and D276644.
1989-1990	Eye2+ No+ (Plus No Plus). New head design featuring a "scalloped" sole. The scalloped refered to the design process where metal was removed from the center of the sole and redistributed in the inside of the cavity near the toe. Additional design features included a more rediused sole, a modified bounce and grind, a slightly thinner topline, a slight increase in clubhead size, a little higher and more rounded toe, and slightly stronger lofts. The grooves were the same as the "Square Groove" model. Made from the fall of 1989 to the spring of 1990.
1990-present	Eye2 Dot. Same design as the "Square Groove" model but with increased groove width as a result of the agrrement reached between Ping and the USGA regarding grooves. Distinguished by the raise dot or drill mark within eye in cavity. Made from spring 1990 to present.
1990-present	Eye2+. Same design features as the "+ No +" model but with increased groove width. Available in stainless steel and copper. Made from spring of 1990 to present. Distinguished by the "+" in the cavity underneath the patent numbers. US Patents 4512577 and 4621813. Ping ceased production of the beryllium copper model in 1999 due to environmental regulations.

Edited January 12 by NRJyzr

[bluedot]

As NRJyzr points out, the Eye2/Eye2+ groove difference isn’t about the shape of the grooves.  The lawsuit and settlement that led to the Eye2+ was about how grooves were measured; in essence the USGA said the Eye2 grooves were too close together, rather than the wrong shape.

[NRJyzr]

7 minutes ago, bluedot said:

As NRJyzr points out, the Eye2/Eye2+ groove difference isn’t about the shape of the grooves.  The lawsuit and settlement that led to the Eye2+ was about how grooves were measured; in essence the USGA said the Eye2 grooves were too close together, rather than the wrong shape.

 

A couple other fun facts  🙂

 

The difference in spacing in how Ping measured vs how the USGA wanted to measure was about the width of a human hair.

It was widely believed Ping would have won the litigation had it fully played out, but Karsten Solheim voluntarily entered the settlement agreement.  He didn't want to embarrass the USGA, or so it's said.

 

And...   Eye2 irons, in regions governed by the USGA, are forever deemed conforming for all competitions, except for professional level competitions.  They are even conforming for USGA events.

 

However, Eye2 are *not* conforming under the R&A.  They were grandfathered for ten years, after which point they were deemed non conforming.

 

I'll add a pic of an Eye2 v-groove clubhead to the earlier post with pics...

 

[wings02]

Amazing response NRJyzr! It's the passion from members like you that makes this forum great! Thank you for the information

[bellairemi]

For me, the sole grind difference between the two is significant.  I did not like the Eye 2 turf interaction while the Eye 2+ was much better.  I do play with a few guys who say just the opposite.

[bluedot]

57 minutes ago, wings02 said:

Amazing response NRJyzr! It's the passion from members like you that makes this forum great! Thank you for the information

If you can get your hands on “And the putter went…PING”, which is a coffee table book about the history of Ping, there is a fascinating and comprehensive history of the grooves controversy, lawsuits, and the settlement.  You will probably come out of the reading with more respect for Karsten Solheim, and probably less for a lot of others, especially the USGA.  
 

The bottom line was that the USGA changed the standards they had been using to measure grooves for over 40 years, and with which Ping had meticulously complied, to make the Eye2, and ONLY the Eye2, non-conforming.  Plus the change was to a method of measurement that was not used in any engineering application, and Solheim was an engineer. Solheim even had the grooves measured by the Dept of Weights and Measures, and they agreed with him.

[mikec3672]

I think if you were a sweeper, the eye2's were fine, but myself who was steep with a bigger divot, the eye+ was the ticket.

[Jackchase]

Great thread! The Eye 2 BeCu and Eye 2+ BeCu are personally two of my favorite sets of irons ever owned- My top 4 are Ping KII, Hogan Apex 2, Ping Eye 2 BeCu and Mizuno MP32. Titleist 620MB and Bettinardi CB24 are close to my top list as well.

 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane!

[bsuwara]

To add to the rabbit hole, I have a set of Ping Eye 2+, however, they do not have a “+” in the cavity.

 

I had bought them used in early to mid 1990’s. How I found out they are “+” was that many years ago I was playing the Kapalua Jungle Course (has long since been closed down). I my eight iron head cam flying off at impact on a par three and went flying into the jungle and bushes in front of the tee box. We tried to find it and dug around for a long time (on multiple days too because this was back when they offered an unlimited golf package on their 3 courses) but could not find it.

 

When I got back, I called Ping and told them what happened. They asked for the serial number and then told me the club probably wasn’t upright enough and stress on toe hitting on the shaft probably caused it (was standard black dot) and to go see a gold store to find out what lie I should be (should be more upright it turns out and their white dot) and call them back.

 

Called back and told them what I found out and they said to send the clubs to them. Mind you, they know at this point that I have bought the clubs used so wasn’t fitted by them).

 

They adjusted all my irons, refinished them, AND sent me a brand new 8 iron at no charge.

 

The 8 iron had a “+” in the cavity and I called them back and they said that my irons were an early release and therefore didn’t have the “+” yet but that the 8 iron and the rest with the “+” are all correct.

 

So even if you have the Ping Eye 2 that doesn’t have a “+” in the cavity they still could be Ping Eye 2+ and you could always contact Ping and give them your serial number and they can confirm which model you have.

 

Not sure if Ping’s customer service is still on par with what I experienced but I was so impressed with their company and still have them and may have to pull them out again.

 

Edited January 12 by bsuwara

[ChaosTheory]

3 hours ago, bsuwara said:

To add to the rabbit hole, I have a set of Ping Eye 2+, however, they do not have a “+” in the cavity.

 

I had bought them used in early to mid 1990’s. How I found out they are “+” was that many years ago I was playing the Kapalua Jungle Course (has long since been closed down). I my eight iron head cam flying off at impact on a par three and went flying into the jungle and bushes in front of the tee box. We tried to find it and dug around for a long time (on multiple days too because this was back when they offered an unlimited golf package on their 3 courses) but could not find it.

 

When I got back, I called Ping and told them what happened. They asked for the serial number and then told me the club probably wasn’t upright enough and stress on toe hitting on the shaft probably caused it (was standard black dot) and to go see a gold store to find out what lie I should be (should be more upright it turns out and their white dot) and call them back.

 

Called back and told them what I found out and they said to send the clubs to them. Mind you, they know at this point that I have bought the clubs used so wasn’t fitted by them).

 

They adjusted all my irons, refinished them, AND sent me a brand new 8 iron at no charge.

 

The 8 iron had a “+” in the cavity and I called them back and they said that my irons were an early release and therefore didn’t have the “+” yet but that the 8 iron and the rest with the “+” are all correct.

 

So even if you have the Ping Eye 2 that doesn’t have a “+” in the cavity they still could be Ping Eye 2+ and you could always contact Ping and give them your serial number and they can confirm which model you have.

 

Not sure if Ping’s customer service is still on par with what I experienced but I was so impressed with their company and still have them and may have to pull them out again.

 

Those are known as plus no plus.  

[Titleist_PT23]

For the wedges, I think PING's bounce number is their measurement of "effective bounce."  The original Eye2s probably have close to zero measured bounce but a wide sole.  The Eye2+s probably have a measured bounce angle in the mid-20s (+/-) but a very thin sole.  Each will go through the turf differently.

 

The XG/Gorge are closer to the original version, but they never really caught on (still good wedges IMO).  In terms of more recent versions, the TS is essentially the Eye2+ LW and the ES is more like the original.

[bluedot]

19 hours ago, bsuwara said:

To add to the rabbit hole, I have a set of Ping Eye 2+, however, they do not have a “+” in the cavity.

 

I had bought them used in early to mid 1990’s. How I found out they are “+” was that many years ago I was playing the Kapalua Jungle Course (has long since been closed down). I my eight iron head cam flying off at impact on a par three and went flying into the jungle and bushes in front of the tee box. We tried to find it and dug around for a long time (on multiple days too because this was back when they offered an unlimited golf package on their 3 courses) but could not find it.

 

When I got back, I called Ping and told them what happened. They asked for the serial number and then told me the club probably wasn’t upright enough and stress on toe hitting on the shaft probably caused it (was standard black dot) and to go see a gold store to find out what lie I should be (should be more upright it turns out and their white dot) and call them back.

 

Called back and told them what I found out and they said to send the clubs to them. Mind you, they know at this point that I have bought the clubs used so wasn’t fitted by them).

 

They adjusted all my irons, refinished them, AND sent me a brand new 8 iron at no charge.

 

The 8 iron had a “+” in the cavity and I called them back and they said that my irons were an early release and therefore didn’t have the “+” yet but that the 8 iron and the rest with the “+” are all correct.

 

So even if you have the Ping Eye 2 that doesn’t have a “+” in the cavity they still could be Ping Eye 2+ and you could always contact Ping and give them your serial number and they can confirm which model you have.

 

Not sure if Ping’s customer service is still on par with what I experienced but I was so impressed with their company and still have them and may have to pull them out again.

 

I don’t think there is anything to compare Ping customer service to, really.  You can call them with a serial number from decades ago, and they’ll tell you what that club was when it left the factory.  
 

Back in 2012, I sent them my beloved set of i5 irons with close to 1000 rounds on them to be refurbished. Ping tumbled the heads (I think?) to refinish, checked and adjusted the loft, lie, and SW on each club, repainted the scoring line on the face, replaced the medallions, and regripped, all for $16/club.

 

It was 2 weeks door to door, and my irons looked brand new when I took them out of the box.  Amazing work.

Edited January 13 by bluedot

[bsuwara]

18 hours ago, ChaosTheory said:

Those are known as plus no plus.  

My bad.

My ADHD prevented me from reading @NRJyzr post completely so sorry about that.

 

Would you believe that I was posting to point out how great Ping’s customer service is? … That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Edited January 13 by bsuwara