Nippon Modus 110

[379]

57 minutes ago, OFore said:

Anyone play the 115

I played them for a season. 
 

linear feel. Significant heavier feeling than 105 for me… 

 

smooth feel, but controlled flight. 
 

I left them for something a touch lighter with a higher flight. Ended up sticking with the dg 115 mid. 

[Golfrnut]

5 hours ago, Glock917 said:

using a frequency meter to try to profile a shaft is a pretty poor technique if you think about it how it works. Sure when clamped at the butt is logical and relevant but when you start going down the shaft and start clamping and restricting only the mid and tip ends it becomes irrelevant data cause we don’t bend the shaft anchored from the midsection. 

Here is what Russ from golfshaftsreviews says:

 

 

The PCS recognized that frequency measurements were affected by clamp pressure, clamp length, weight and the actual instrument being used. They established a standard primarily focused on one of the instruments. Software knows as “The Equalizer”  was sold to PCS members. It came with a calibration stick that was used to standardize the readings to a common denominator across instruments. During its dominance as a club makers organization the PCS did not promote discussion of alternative shaft stiffness systems. Nor did it inform its membership that the shaft designers and manufacturers primarily used EI for understanding shaft stiffness.

Let’s take a look at an EI chart of three shafts with the same frequency.Each of these shafts has a frequency of 354 on my instrument. I use a pneumatic clamp, clamped 7″ from the butt of the shafts. These are 6 iron shafts and were measured with a 261 gram 6 iron head. Seven inches, the Fujikura standard, is still used by some club manufacturers and shaft companies.

 As you can plainly see, these three shafts which have exactly the same frequency are quite different when viewed with EI analysis. Tom Wishon, then at GolfSmith, recognized that butt frequency alone did not work. He measured frequency at several points down the shaft while sorting a box of iron shafts for a set he was building for a PGA tour pro. That evolved into a system of measuring the shaft with a frequency instrument at different point down the shaft. With that, the term ‘shaft profiling’ was born. That system was flawed in more ways than I want to discuss here. It gave very crude charts of stiffness down the shaft when compared to EI charts. If you want to understand the relationship and the difficulty of using frequency to estimate EI read page 205 of Cochran & Stobb that I referred to at the beginning of this section.

Shaft frequency is not of much use in evaluating shaft stiffness. The problem for club makers and fitters who recognized the importance of shaft profiling was that there was not an affordable EI instrument until I designed and manufactured one. They used the frequency instruments they had. As with all technologies, instruments and expertise evolves. Frequency profiling and frequency rating of shaft stiffness were an attempt by club builders to reverse engineer shaft knowledge not shared by the shaft companies. Affordable EI instruments have closed the knowledge gap between the shaft engineer and the club fitter.

 

 

Here the EI profile of the 120. The butt is not necessarily soft but fell vs real and most people feel that but it’s more the midsection is the soft portion and creates a bend point that “feels” like it has a soft butt end when it truly doesn’t. 
 

Just like the 130. I guarantee you any one who has tried that shaft does not come away with the tip being too soft. That’s because the mid and butt are so stiff the tip doesn’t bend much under load. 
 

 

 

 

Well,  for starters, you don't zone profile shafts that way vs EI measurements.  They are both using a measuring device along the length of the shaft to measure different points in the profile.  One is using CPM, one is using weight, or force, to do the measurements.  One isn't doing anything special over the other.  They both have to single out 'parts' of the shaft In the end, it's still the same, just different measurement techniques.

 

And to add, Russ was also posting that stuff when he was trying to discredit one to obtain membership to his site.  He was directly called out for the practice too.

 

There are others out there that would disagree with his assessments too.  Everyone can decide what they want to choose to use, they all have their place IMO.

 

 

 

For two, if you look at EI curves and zone profiling by two individuals that know what they are doing.  They tell the same story, just plotted differently.

 

 

Same thing...

 

And the tip will always be the softest part of a shaft overall.  It will aways be.  Doesn't matter what the rest of the shaft is.  The zone profile chats are misleading to an extent in that regard, but they are not meant to be read by the average person either.  Was never really their intent.  Doesn't make them inaccurate at all.

Edited February 3 by Golfrnut

[Golfrnut]

.....duplicate

Edited February 3 by Golfrnut
Duplicate

[OFore]

16 hours ago, 379 said:

I played them for a season. 
 

linear feel. Significant heavier feeling than 105 for me… 

 

smooth feel, but controlled flight. 
 

I left them for something a touch lighter with a higher flight. Ended up sticking with the dg 115 mid. 

You finding more spin and height with the DG 115 mid? 

[379]

3 hours ago, OFore said:

You finding more spin and height with the DG 115 mid? 

Yes, especially more height. 

[cw1209]

On 2/3/2025 at 1:20 AM, Golfrnut said:

 

 

Well,  for starters, you don't zone profile shafts that way vs EI measurements.  They are both using a measuring device along the length of the shaft to measure different points in the profile.  One is using CPM, one is using weight, or force, to do the measurements.  One isn't doing anything special over the other.  They both have to single out 'parts' of the shaft In the end, it's still the same, just different measurement techniques.

 

And to add, Russ was also posting that stuff when he was trying to discredit one to obtain membership to his site.  He was directly called out for the practice too.

 

There are others out there that would disagree with his assessments too.  Everyone can decide what they want to choose to use, they all have their place IMO.

 

 

 

For two, if you look at EI curves and zone profiling by two individuals that know what they are doing.  They tell the same story, just plotted differently.

 

 

Same thing...

 

And the tip will always be the softest part of a shaft overall.  It will aways be.  Doesn't matter what the rest of the shaft is.  The zone profile chats are misleading to an extent in that regard, but they are not meant to be read by the average person either.  Was never really their intent.  Doesn't make them inaccurate at all.

 

I agree, both Russ and Tom are using a measurement device along the length of the shaft. The difference between the two techniques is important though. Frequency measurements are not nearly as useful as an EI curve when evaluating a shaft profile. The goal of profiling a shaft is important for club fitting, but the method of evaluation is equally important. Frequency measurement charts like the one you posted don't accurately display the difference in profile between shafts. These frequency measurement curves have a ton of overlap between shafts and they are the very reason why bad information like "Modus 120X = DG R300" has been spread around this forum for years. While EI curves are a much better tool for evaluating shaft profile, there are some things that Russ gets wrong too. The idea that tip trimming a tip stiff shaft (like AD DI or Ventus Blue) will make the tip weaker is nonsense. The tip is always the weakest part of the shaft as the result of a reduction in diameter. His notion that PX steel is "butt soft" is also nonsense. People read too much into Russ' "enhanced EI curve" even if his method of evaluating a shaft profile is accurate. 

Edited February 9 by cw1209

[Golfrnut]

1 hour ago, cw1209 said:

 

I agree, both Russ and Tom are using a measurement device along the length of the shaft. The difference between the two techniques is important though. Frequency measurements are not nearly as useful as an EI curve when evaluating a shaft profile. The goal of profiling a shaft is important for club fitting, but the method of evaluation is equally important. Frequency measurement charts like the one you posted don't accurately display the difference in profile between shafts. These frequency measurement curves have a ton of overlap between shafts and they are the very reason why nonsense like "Modus 120X = DG R300" has been spread around this forum for years. While EI curves are a much better tool for evaluating shaft profile, there are some things that Russ gets wrong too. The idea that tip trimming a tip stiff shaft (like AD DI or Ventus Blue) will make the tip weaker is nonsense. The tip is always the weakest part of the shaft as the result of a reduction in diameter. His notion that PX steel is "butt soft" is also nonsense. People read too much into Russ' "enhanced EI curve" even if his method of evaluating a shaft profile is accurate. 

 

 

If the stuff is 'nonsense' as you put it....please provide data to the contrary then.  Feel is not real as has been said for years.  There is nothing false about measuring shafts by either method.  And again, 'much better' is simply an opinion and far away from a fact.

[cw1209]

1 hour ago, Golfrnut said:

 

 

If the stuff is 'nonsense' as you put it....please provide data to the contrary then.  Feel is not real as has been said for years.  There is nothing false about measuring shafts by either method.  And again, 'much better' is simply an opinion and far away from a fact.

Nothing false about the Wishon frequency measurements along the length of the shaft. The argument is whether it tells you anything useful about the shaft. More specifically, is this data more useful than measuring the EI curve? I think the most obvious argument about which method is better is how shaft OEMs communicate profile information. Although not universal, some manufacturers will post EI curves which are not totally dissimilar from the information on Russ' website. I have never seen any shaft OEM post anything that looks like the Wishon frequency curves. This tells me that EI curves are more useful for understanding and comparing golf shaft profiles. Shaft manufacturers are aware that these curves have the potential to be misinterpreted and are not helpful for most customers. This is why most OEMs use word descriptions to communicate differences in bend profile. Graphite Design has been doing this for years. The idea that "feel is not real" is a loaded term. I will concede that EI curves aren't everything when trying to understand a shaft profile. If Graphite Design posted the EI curves for all their Tour AD shafts, everyone would be convinced all their shafts are the same. Anyone that plays these shafts knows they feel different from each  other. For me this means EI curves are useful, but limited in their ability to convey differences in feel. 

Edited February 9 by cw1209

[Golfrnut]

51 minutes ago, cw1209 said:

Nothing false about the Wishon frequency measurements along the length of the shaft. The argument is whether it tells you anything useful about the shaft. More specifically, is this data more useful than measuring the EI curve? I think the most obvious argument about which method is better is how shaft OEMs communicate profile information. Although not universal, some manufacturers will post EI curves which are not totally dissimilar from the information on Russ' website. I have never seen any shaft OEM post anything that looks like the Wishon frequency curves. This tells me that EI curves are more useful for understanding and comparing golf shaft profiles. Shaft manufacturers are aware that these curves have the potential to be misinterpreted and are not helpful for most customers. This is why most OEMs use word descriptions to communicate differences in bend profile. Graphite Design has been doing this for years. The idea that "feel is not real" is a loaded term. I will concede that EI curves aren't everything when trying to understand a shaft profile. If Graphite Design posted the EI curves for all their Tour AD shafts, everyone would be convinced all their shafts are the same. Anyone that plays these shafts knows they feel different from each  other. For me this means EI curves are useful, but limited in their ability to convey differences in feel. 

 

Well, that would likely mean that it's a misunderstanding at the user end than a CPM vs EI curve issue.  The opposite is actually true, both the EI curves and zone profiles match up when done correctly, and interpreted correctly.  I have posted multiple examples of this when it comes to Modus and DG multiple times in the forums using the Wishon database and Russ's charts.  The difference being that Russ, for whatever reason, chooses not to show numbers in almost all cases where as I can see all the numbers plus the 3 shafts that were tested to derive the numbers in the Wishon database.

 

Edited February 9 by Golfrnut

[juggernaut0629]

On 1/22/2025 at 9:11 AM, mikey6866 said:

 

I dont know if you tried the 120 yet but its actually lighter than the 115.  No idea why nippon made the modus 120 - 114g and the modus 115 - 119g.  Pretty confusing.

 

All the nippons seem to go left for me but i keep trying them because they do feel good.  Im in project x IO shafts now in 6.0 that weigh 110 and i love them.

I’m a Modus 120 or Project X IO guy middle. Can’t go writing with either shaft honestly. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

On 2/2/2025 at 5:55 PM, chinaski said:

I just shafted some Z745 heads I've had around for a while with 115. Found a new set cheap and decided to try them blind. They were like my 6th option on Mizuno shaft optimizer, but didn't have a demo shaft near me available. I play LZ 6.5 now which was my top option and it's great. I tried 120X, previously. They were okay. I'm typically in between S and X. I found the 120S way too soft, but I've got a fast tempo. These are supposed to be more like DG 120. I've alway been a fan of DG profile. Going to test on trackman tomorrow.

How did the testing go? I'm starting the find 120X works fine in long irons, but is not the best for me in the shorter irons. How did the Modus 115 go for you?

[chinaski]

7 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

How did the testing go? I'm starting the find 120X works fine in long irons, but is not the best for me in the shorter irons. How did the Modus 115 go for you?

They are good. I don't have real numbers to give, but they didn't over draw, they spun well and were accurate. I have them in my Z745 irons. Been using my T150 with PZ LZ 6.5 more often, but more due to the long irons working much better for me. The Modus have a different feel from DG 120 but its somewhat close. I did prefer them and think they are a bit more stable than DG 120. Great shaft if you want to drop some weight

[autronicdsm]

I just finished building 7i with 110S and it feels pretty awesome just hitting at home. Didn't have my launch monitor on though.

This might be my new favorite shaft for irons.

[055]

12 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

I just finished building 7i with 110S and it feels pretty awesome just hitting at home. Didn't have my launch monitor on though.

This might be my new favorite shaft for irons.

What was your old favorite, and how is your swing?

[autronicdsm]

5 minutes ago, 055 said:

What was your old favorite, and how is your swing?

 

My swing is horrible right now. After I posted I got on the LM and was getting ball speeds of 105-114 and 1.25-1.3 smash factor 😄 

Here's what I noticed after about 30 swings. Butt section is lively and I can feel it (which is what I like), but the club feels pretty heavy and from mid to the tip it's like I don't feel any flex. I don't know if this is supposed to be a lower balance point shaft or not but I like it.

 

My favorite shaft is Mitsubishi OTI Tour 110.

[RobDMB]

Anyone know when the 110s will be available?

[gemo]

Available right now on Rakuten, use an import service like buyee to purchase and ship them.

[RobDMB]

On 3/21/2025 at 6:27 PM, autronicdsm said:

 

My swing is horrible right now. After I posted I got on the LM and was getting ball speeds of 105-114 and 1.25-1.3 smash factor 😄 

Here's what I noticed after about 30 swings. Butt section is lively and I can feel it (which is what I like), but the club feels pretty heavy and from mid to the tip it's like I don't feel any flex. I don't know if this is supposed to be a lower balance point shaft or not but I like it.

 

My favorite shaft is Mitsubishi OTI Tour 110.

 

Any further thoughts on these? Looking for something a little lighter and debating 110x or 115x. Want something that can keep flight down a bit but still not curve too much. 

[autronicdsm]

16 hours ago, RobDMB said:

 

Any further thoughts on these? Looking for something a little lighter and debating 110x or 115x. Want something that can keep flight down a bit but still not curve too much. 

 

So initially I was getting a very straight ball flight even though I might have pulled or pushed the shot. Yesterday I played a round on a sim and seemed like it was back to normally what I see with most of my clubs (curving right). My swing is still meh so it's hard for me to review anything (like which one is curving less). The feel is really good and I'm thinking about ordering another set or two to re-shaft some other irons I have.

 

I can compare to 115 over the weekend and post some numbers.

Edited April 4 by autronicdsm

[RobDMB]

6 hours ago, autronicdsm said:

 

So initially I was getting a very straight ball flight even though I might have pulled or pushed the shot. Yesterday I played a round on a sim and seemed like it was back to normally what I see with most of my clubs (curving right). My swing is still meh so it's hard for me to review anything (like which one is curving less). The feel is really good and I'm thinking about ordering another set or two to re-shaft some other irons I have.

 

I can compare to 115 over the weekend and post some numbers.

Thanks that would be great. I just built a test club of 115X and seems solid on the range but am tempted by the 110 and the intended lower flight.

[david7979]

is this available in retail? love to test them

[Lord Helmet]

On 2/2/2025 at 8:38 PM, OFore said:

Anyone play the 115

I stumbled on them by mistake. Thought I was hitting 105s but it was 115s. I love this shaft. I will be migrating to them. I had a 4i utility build and went 115s. I've also added modus 115s to gap wedge. I have the 115 wedge shaft in my 54 and 125 shaft in my 58.

 

Just a smooth crisp stable line.

[autronicdsm]

On 4/3/2025 at 8:04 PM, RobDMB said:

 

Any further thoughts on these? Looking for something a little lighter and debating 110x or 115x. Want something that can keep flight down a bit but still not curve too much. 

 

110 slightly longer but I also felt like I was pulling my shots more than with 115. I did delete bunch of "bad" shots that didn't quite have the ball speed or were way off line. Two screenshots because all data doesn't fit on the screen. Spin is lower with 110 so carry and total were slightly higher than 115. 115 definitely were straighter... for today. Had 4 shots with 110 that were wide vs. only 2 shots for 115.

 

 

[RobDMB]

15 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

 

110 slightly longer but I also felt like I was pulling my shots more than with 115. I did delete bunch of "bad" shots that didn't quite have the ball speed or were way off line. Two screenshots because all data doesn't fit on the screen. Spin is lower with 110 so carry and total were slightly higher than 115. 115 definitely were straighter... for today. Had 4 shots with 110 that were wide vs. only 2 shots for 115.

 

 

Thanks! Aside from spin, numbers look really similar. Even the height is the same. Did you still feel like the 110 was the more "lively" of the two shafts? 115 remain your preference?

[autronicdsm]

17 minutes ago, RobDMB said:

Thanks! Aside from spin, numbers look really similar. Even the height is the same. Did you still feel like the 110 was the more "lively" of the two shafts? 115 remain your preference?

 

Yes, 110 is more lively in the butt section vs 115. Perhaps that's why I was also pulling more shots with it? Going between the two definitely threw my swing off a little bit. I was alternating every two shots. From the numbers I should be playing 115 just because of dispersion but I like the feel of 110 more 🤷‍♂️

 

If you are consistent with your irons and you want softer butt section feel, go for 110. Three longest shots were with 110 and the highest ball speed I got was 119 with 110 as well.

[autronicdsm]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:28 PM, david7979 said:

is this available in retail? love to test them

 

Golfworks has them on their website now.

[PNW]

On 4/5/2025 at 6:17 PM, autronicdsm said:

 

Yes, 110 is more lively in the butt section vs 115. Perhaps that's why I was also pulling more shots with it? Going between the two definitely threw my swing off a little bit. I was alternating every two shots. From the numbers I should be playing 115 just because of dispersion but I like the feel of 110 more 🤷‍♂️

 

If you are consistent with your irons and you want softer butt section feel, go for 110. Three longest shots were with 110 and the highest ball speed I got was 119 with 110 as well.

How much softer did the 110X feel vs the 115X? It's been a couple years since I tried the 115X and I found them quite stiff in the butt section, similar to PX 6.0. Just trying to gauge if the 110X are a flex softer in the butt or completely different like Modus 120 S. 

[autronicdsm]

1 hour ago, PNW said:

How much softer did the 110X feel vs the 115X? It's been a couple years since I tried the 115X and I found them quite stiff in the butt section, similar to PX 6.0. Just trying to gauge if the 110X are a flex softer in the butt or completely different like Modus 120 S. 

 

No X. All I can say is the difference is noticeable between 110 and 115. I've never actually hit any shaft in different flexes to know how different that feels (always played S). 

The irons that got 110 actually came with 120 that I ended up pulling after one range session. That was a first time trying 120 and I did not find 120 to have a soft butt like a lot people say. Didn't like it at all and the ball was flying super high.

[PNW]

7 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

 

No X. All I can say is the difference is noticeable between 110 and 115. I've never actually hit any shaft in different flexes to know how different that feels (always played S). 

The irons that got 110 actually came with 120 that I ended up pulling after one range session. That was a first time trying 120 and I did not find 120 to have a soft butt like a lot people say. Didn't like it at all and the ball was flying super high.

ah got it thanks. I thought I saw you mention they were both X but that's still helpful knowing both the 110 and 115 were both Stiff as a comparison. I actually have a set of 110X on the way in the next week to try out so I can update the thread as well in a few weeks. 

[Lord Helmet]

The '0' series in Modus seems to not work for me.  Ive now tried 130 and 120, both I did not care for.  Conversely, the '5' line works for me rather well.  115 is my fave, but do admit 105 holds up quite well.  I have a 125 in my 58* and it is also a good fit.  I really do like Modus shafts.  The '5' shafts really feel stable, crisp, and great in my swing.

 

Carry on