Fit for irons, but now fighting a pull draw/hook

[T-Carter]

For the past 16+ years I have been playing a set of MP-57 irons from Mizuno that I bought new.  The 7-iron was 36.75" with a lie of 61.5 degree stock, but after a few years (little older, little stiffer) I extended them 0.75" so that my 7-iron was 37.5" long.  I still loved the clubs, but thought it was time to get new and get fit.  I was fit for a set of irons late last season that were +1" and 3 degree upright, which makes my 7-iron 38" long and the lie 65.5 degrees (stock 7-iron in this set is 37" and 62.5 degrees).  I didn't pay attention to the fact that standard length and lie are not really a thing across manufacturers, so +1" and more upright seemed like a reasonably close fit to what I had.  However, ever since getting these irons I have been fighting a pull draw/hook. 

 

I am considering cutting my 7-iron down 1/4" and testing with the thought that I could go another 1/4" lower.  I could also have it flattened a degree and test, then if need be go another degree flatter.  What are your thoughts?  Would you start with length or do 1/4" shorter and a degree flatter at the same time to test?  

 

[PuffyC]

Hard to say for sure with what’s given but 3 up is a red flag. Adding an inch in length could definitely be contributing as well. If it was me I’d first start with the sharpie line on the ball trick to check lie. If you’re not familiar with that a quick Google search will explain and it’s easy to do. As to length, how was the +1 determined? What is your WTF?

Edited February 27 by PuffyC

[Greenie]

 

 

If you think it is a length issue why not just grip lower on the shaft and try that first. 

 

As mentioned above do the sharpie test to check the lie. 

 

I have been fitted anywhere between +1/2 and +1" in length and 2*up or 3*up depending on OEM. 

 

I have had a few issues myself with a few new iron sets with pull/draw hooks and in my case swing weight  played an issue in the equation. 

 

Once I got used to my new clubs everything seemed to work itself out for me.

 

[Willrich27]

3 up is a lot and def could be an issue. They can have it rechecked, I’d inquire about that. 

[DJDJ]

Assuming you have your old clubs see if you are pulling and hooking those.

 

if you aren’t I’d rethink the fitting and see if they will fix it.

[Volnut]

Easier/cheaper to get them flattened than cutting shafts. If you cut the shaft shorter, and it's the lie angle then you're forced to reshaft or add an extension. Personally, I'd try the sharpie test or get the the lie flattened first. 

[redshirtgolfer]

For testing reasons, you could add some grip size. Guessing you play standard, try midsize or jumbo and watch the anti-pullhook-magic. 

[bevans0222]

I had a fitting that put me in much lighter shafts.  My tendency was to get quick with them, and had a left and lefter problem.  You didn't give any info on the shafts, but in general, shafts were quite a bit heavier 16 years ago..   The good news is that I eventually adjusted a bit.  

[BCULAW]

I have tinkered a lot with length and lie in the past year.  I'm 6' tall with a 36.5" wrist-to-floor measurement, and "on paper" should fit into roughly 1/2" long and 2* upright.  At times this year, I was playing up to 1.5" long and 2* upright.  After about a month of really good golf at those specs, I started fighting big left misses.  Those misses turned into a complete loss of the bottom of my swing arc, and then led to a couple of weeks of shan$!s!  Two weeks ago, I finally scrapped the experiment and went back to a set of clubs with "standard" length and lie.  Had the best ball striking round of the last six months with them earlier this week.

 

Your new set is a pretty extreme example of overlength and upright clubs, even in comparison to your old mizunos they are .5" longer and 4* more upright.  My guess is that you'd lose that left miss pretty quickly if you went back to the mizuno specs.   I'd suggest having a good talk with your fitter and see what can be done to revisit the fitting before taking matters into your own hands.  Oftentimes, you are better off taking advantage of a playability guarantee or a post-fitting return policy if the fitted specs prove to be wrong.  I'd check that option out before tearing your new set down.  If that is not an option, then I'd get the 7 iron on your new set cut down and bent to match your mizunos to see if it solves the miss.  My guess is that it will.  

[Greenie]

3 hours ago, bevans0222 said:

I had a fitting that put me in much lighter shafts.  My tendency was to get quick with them, and had a left and lefter problem.  You didn't give any info on the shafts, but in general, shafts were quite a bit heavier 16 years ago..   The good news is that I eventually adjusted a bit.  

 

I am not a fitter but I mentioned above it might be a swing weight issue. 

 

My friend bought new Srixon irons last year and he started out with the pulls. He was fitted +1/2 and 2*up. He took them back and the fitter said it was a swing weight issue and he fixed them. When he got them back he played much better with them..

[Springsteennut]

I agree with the previous poster. 3 degrees upright sounds like a lot. I was fit a few years ago and I was fit for 1 degree upright. I started going left a lot. I went back in and we did the lie angle over again. This time he felt it was 0 this time. Once he bent the irons back to zero everything was more around the center line instead of everything heading left.

[uW0tM8]

That lie angle is outrageous. Can almost guarantee that’s the issue. Also, could be further exaggerated if the swing weight is off. +1” is going to alter swing weight a good bit. Roughly +6 points depending on the shaft. 

[T-Carter]

Lots of good information here and I really do appreciate the input. 

To give some more information on my situation here:  WTF is just a smidge under 39" and I am 6'2-1/2" tall.  The old set, Mizuno, had Golf Pride MCC +4 grips midsize and True Temper Dynamic Gold stiff (130g) flex shaft.  The new set has a midsize Lamkin tour velvet grip that I intend to change to the same Golf Pride MCC+4 midsize that I had.  The shafts are KBS Tour stiff (120g) flex.

 

Swing weight is an angle I hadn't really thought of, but if I went down 1/4" and put the heavier grip on the club that would help I think.  Honestly the pull/hook seems to rear up most on the PW to 7-iron and less for the longer irons.

[ChaosTheory]

Forget the swing weight.  A half inch and 4° up from your old irons equals 4.5-5° upright.  That’s why you are pull hooking.  And, lie angle has more effect on the more lofted irons.

 

 

Edited February 28 by ChaosTheory

[Par4Nate]

I’ve been playing Ping silver dot (4 degrees upright) and 1/2 inch extended for decades.  I don’t fight anything.

 

Saying that 3 degrees upright is wrong without context is meaningless.  It depends on one’s height, body type, and swing.

[grochol17]

3 hours ago, T-Carter said:

Lots of good information here and I really do appreciate the input. 

To give some more information on my situation here:  WTF is just a smidge under 39" and I am 6'2-1/2" tall.  The old set, Mizuno, had Golf Pride MCC +4 grips midsize and True Temper Dynamic Gold stiff (130g) flex shaft.  The new set has a midsize Lamkin tour velvet grip that I intend to change to the same Golf Pride MCC+4 midsize that I had.  The shafts are KBS Tour stiff (120g) flex.

 

Swing weight is an angle I hadn't really thought of, but if I went down 1/4" and put the heavier grip on the club that would help I think.  Honestly the pull/hook seems to rear up most on the PW to 7-iron and less for the longer irons.

 

You've changed pretty much everything about your irons, so it is hard to know what might be causing your ball flight issues... you're probably just going to have to do some testing and see what works for you.  

 

If I were in your shoes I'd start with the lie angle.  4* is a big change and it is possible that your pull draw/hook is simply because the club doesn't look right to you.  I play Mizuno irons +2* and a buddy plays them -2*.  I tried hitting one of his irons on the range and couldn't make consistent contact because they looked so flat to me I though I couldn't do anything but dig the toe into the ground.  So, if you're like me, you might be unconsciously compensating in your swing because the look is off.

[Greenie]

12 hours ago, Par4Nate said:

I’ve been playing Ping silver dot (4 degrees upright) and 1/2 inch extended for decades.  I don’t fight anything.

 

Saying that 3 degrees upright is wrong without context is meaningless.  It depends on one’s height, body type, and swing.

 

I agree with you. 

 

I have been playing my Pings +1/2" and 3*up  (white dot) for years with no problems. 

[TKS]

what shafts weight? was there a grip size change? have you done the dry erase marker lie test? 

[T-Carter]

Thank you all for your insight.  Here is my plan…

 

Flatten the set by 1 degree and test.  Depending on results I may go another degree and/or cut down the set 1/4”.  I will also be going to the Golf Pride MCC+4 grip once I make a final decision on length.

[T-Carter]

Hello All,

I wanted to give an update on my journey. I did end up putting the Golf Pride MCC+4 midsize grips on after cutting the shafts down 1/4” so that they are now +3/4” of stock.  I then took the clubs to a pro shop to have them flattened 1 degree from what they should have been at 3 degrees upright.  What I found out was that not one club was set to the correct lie.  All the irons were even more upright than the 3 degrees they were ordered to be.  The 4 and 5 were .75 more upright, the 6 and 7 were 1.25 more upright, the 8 and 9 were 1 more upright, and the PW was 3 degrees more upright (6 degrees more upright overall).

 

Anyway they are all now set to 2 degrees upright and I hit them straight, occasionally a little draw.  I could have probably gone another .5-1 degree flat, but I am happy… for now;)

[Yoshifan151]

6 hours ago, T-Carter said:

Hello All,

I wanted to give an update on my journey. I did end up putting the Golf Pride MCC+4 midsize grips on after cutting the shafts down 1/4” so that they are now +3/4” of stock.  I then took the clubs to a pro shop to have them flattened 1 degree from what they should have been at 3 degrees upright.  What I found out was that not one club was set to the correct lie.  All the irons were even more upright than the 3 degrees they were ordered to be.  The 4 and 5 were .75 more upright, the 6 and 7 were 1.25 more upright, the 8 and 9 were 1 more upright, and the PW was 3 degrees more upright (6 degrees more upright overall).

 

Anyway they are all now set to 2 degrees upright and I hit them straight, occasionally a little draw.  I could have probably gone another .5-1 degree flat, but I am happy… for now;)

PW at just about the lie angle of a standard putter is just comical, wow.