Member Guest Quandary - Play with Friend or Decent Player?

[vandyfan]

Background - I haven't played in my M/G for the past 3 years due to the issue I will describe below. For background my club's M/G does not allow more than a 10 shot difference between handicaps. In the event you and your guest are more than 10 shots apart they will adjust the higher handicap players index down until it gets to a 10 shot spread. Also, I will age out of the "young guys" MG (which is "fun" one) in the next 3 years. 

 

Guest A - has invited me to his M/G twice (I accepted both times). He is a 19 hdcp and I am 3-4. At his club this is fine and you just play off your respective handicaps in 2 v 2 matches. We are in a weaker flight so I have to give EVERYONE else tons of shots which is annoying but understandable. Nice guy and a close friend but he has been the same HDCP for years now and shows no signs of improvement which annoys me a bit. If he plays in my MG, he will be playing off a 13-14 which is basically giving away an additional 5 shots. We will have zero chance of being competitive. I don't expect to win the M/G but it would be nice to have a CHANCE. 

 

Guest B - is a 1-2 hdcp. Good friend but not nearly as close as Guest A. This guy gets to play in plenty of M/Gs because he has a large network and is well liked and is a good player. Unlikely he would ever invite me to his MG but that is fine with me, I don't see it as a reciprocal arrangement. There would probably be fallout if Guest A found out that I brought Guest B instead of him. I wouldn't lie to keep that a secret and it would be almost impossible to keep that covered up anyway. 

 

Option 3 - this is the option I have taken that past few years. Just don't play. Save some money. Hope that Guest A will magically get better next year (he won't). 

 

Am I being a competitive psycho here? Should I just enjoy the MG and not worry about losing every match AND the calcutta AND any side games we get involved in? 

 

 

[AverageGopher]

Guest A (and then maybe B next year)

[Greenie]

If you are worried about the money or about losing...option 3

 

If not Guest A all day long..

 

One thing you mention about guest B . He will most likely never ask you to join him in a MG. That may be fine with you but I would be loyal to a person that has invited me before. I also wouldn't want to hurt player A if he is a better friend. Part of a good friendship is loyalty.

[Par4Nate]

I’m confused.  You haven’t played in your member guest for three years because of this issue? If that’s the case, why are you suddenly wanting to play now and why do you think Guest A would even know or care if he doesn’t get to play in something that he’s never been asked to play in before?

 

As others have said, if I had to invite someone, I’d lean to Guest A if he is your better friend and has been gracious enough to invite you to his MG.  That said, if he is a really close friend you might explain to him the handicap issue and see if he still even wants to play.  I’m a five and if a buddy told me that I’d have to play to a scratch, I’d suggest to him that he find a scratch to play with him instead of me.  The last thing I’d want to do is to play in a MG to an index that I have zero hope of playing to in the event.

[Hawkeye77]

A and have fun or . . . A and play your A off and also have fun.

Edited March 1 by Hawkeye77

[vandyfan]

Man, this seems like a pretty easy question for most people, haha. Maybe I am a psycho?

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

If it were me, unless I was willing to have a serious conversation with Guest A about how he'd feel if I invited someone else to my M-G, I'd resign myself to have fun at the M-G with Guest A.  Even if you win one of these, it's like telling people you won your fantasy league.  No one cares.  At our local club, many of the best players aren't present for the M-G.  There is beer on almost every hole, handicaps aren't always valid, and rules infractions happen all over the place.  I'd rather let my hair down and have a good time.

 

If you're looking to have some fun with Guest B, what I might consider is signing up for the USGA Amateur Four-Ball, now or in the future.  That would be a fun thing to do that's going to be more competitive and a better use of your combined talents.

[isaacbm]

Just thinking a little out of the box here but who’s to say that guest B won’t become a better friend if you spend more time with him?
    If your goal is to play more competitive golf around better players, he sounds like A key to  unlock that door.

seems like a great opportunity to network into the “better player” group. 
 

On the other hand, if your goal is just to have a nice time with a buddy then play with guest A . Have some drinks, eat some food, play some cards, and just generally have fun. I promise you no one, including your mother, daughter, or wife, could care less of the results of your member guest.

[david.c.w]

I get it.  It is tough to drop $1500 on an MG if you have zero shot of winning, especially if you have played several times over the years.  Super fun the first few years and then the shine wears off and it turns into just an expensive weekend.  After all it is a competition and the goal for most is to win or at least compete for your flight.

 

That being said, how fun is Guest A's MG?  He probably considers it reciprocal so you might get dropped if you don't invite him.  

 

There is no right answer.  After all it is a competition and the goal for most is to win or at least compete for your flight (at least for me).  But as I get older I do see the negatives of doing the same thing over and over and over.  You end up doing things because you did them last year, not because you liked it.  Sort of get stuck in a rut.

 

My vote?  Unless there is some spouse consideration bring B this year and A next year.

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately) for me I only have 1 friend outside of the club I would drop that kind of money on.  If he can't play I can use that money for something else.

 

 

 

Side note:  Vandy has to be dancing this year.  Wins over Ole Miss, A&M, and Missouri the past 2 weeks has to get us in the big dance!

 

 

 

 

[vandyfan]

11 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

Side note:  Vandy has to be dancing this year.  Wins over Ole Miss, A&M, and Missouri the past 2 weeks has to get us in the big dance!

 

 

I would think so, had a great last few games and a really fun team to watch. They can literally overcome any deficit AND blow almost any lead. Truly wild. 

 

11 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

I get it.  It is tough to drop $1500 on an MG if you have zero shot of winning, especially if you have played several times over the years.  Super fun the first few years and then the shine wears off and it turns into just an expensive weekend.  After all it is a competition and the goal for most is to win or at least compete for your flight.

 

That being said, how fun is Guest A's MG?  He probably considers it reciprocal so you might get dropped if you don't invite him.  

 

Yeah, I think I know the right thing is to bring Guest A. Not to sound snooty (thus, I am about to sound snooty) our club is probably a tier or two above his club. I have no idea what our M/G is like because I haven't played in it but I would think it would be a pretty well run event. His is fine but I think I am probably going to make up an excuse to not play in his this year. That also leads me to probably sitting out my own M/G, again, and regrouping for next year. 

41 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

I promise you no one, including your mother, daughter, or wife, could care less of the results of your member guest.

 

Oh, trust me, I don't think there is ANY prestige in winning a handicapped event. It is more so there is a significant amount of pro shop credit, calcutta money and side betting that I am just going to get NUKED on because my partner has to adjust his handicap by 5-6 shots. I am not a big gambler (don't really enjoy it) but if everyone is gambling except us then that is going to be talked about. 

 

Edited March 3 by vandyfan

[maxfnmloans]

Part 1 - I feel for you on the gambling part. I despise gambling on golf. i like to play golf. Always have. Since I was a kid. Being out there is enough for me. I dont need to add any "juice" and i think its annoying when people get all quizzical or worse, twisted up about it. Most times in weekend foursomes, Ill toss in my $50 or whatever just to be part of the crowd, but if I had my druthers, I wouldnt

 

Part 2 - First thing you need to do is be honest with yourself.

 

Also, I have a couple friends who are <5 and I'm a 15. They never invite me. Nor would I want to go to their MG, because I wouldn't want them to waste their money. And that is with no handicap hijinks, that's just with me worrying I cant even hit my number that day.  If Guest A is that good of a friend, he should understand. Make sure you tell him soon so he can find someone else to invite just in case. Don't GO to his and then say "ohbytheway I'm inviting someone else to mine". Talk to him about it, now.

 

But if the money/chance to be in competition really and truly does not matter, Guest A all day long.  Its up to what you really honestly truly feel. If the money matters even a little bit bring Guest B because the worst thing would be at the end of Day 2 you resenting Guest A, AND having lost a bunch of $$

 

 

[vandyfan]

On 3/1/2025 at 3:29 PM, Par4Nate said:

I’m confused.  You haven’t played in your member guest for three years because of this issue? If that’s the case, why are you suddenly wanting to play now

 

I have only been a member at my club for 3 years. So another way of saying it is "I have never played in the M/G at my club" and I will age out of it in 3 years so I am feeling some pressure of "what if you regret never playing even once"

[Par4Nate]

3 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

 

I have only been a member at my club for 3 years. So another way of saying it is "I have never played in the M/G at my club" and I will age out of it in 3 years so I am feeling some pressure of "what if you regret never playing even once"

 

Ah got it.

[dugue4]

Tell Guest A about the 10 shot handicap difference requirement.  Fail to mention that they will lower his cap to allow him to play.  If it comes up, plead ignorance.  Invite B and win it all.

[Llortamaisey]

How about Option 4… work on your handicap management, get your cap to a 9, and then invite player A?

[bcjim]

2 hours ago, dugue4 said:

Tell Guest A about the 10 shot handicap difference requirement.  Fail to mention that they will lower his cap to allow him to play.  If it comes up, plead ignorance.  Invite B and win it all.

That's not a  terrible suggestion. Or just straight up tell him, hey, we'd be drawing dead so....Probably he'd get it. Or just continue not playing, that's a good option too.

[Abh159]

My M/G is the same way regarding handicap rules.

 

I'm a 0-1 handicap, and I usually play with my brother who is a 3-4 handicap. However, the one year he couldn't come I invited my cousin (18 handicap). He had to play off of a 10-11 and it certainly hampered our ability to be competitive. If I remember correctly, we finished 3rd in our flight of 6 teams. That being said, we had a great time and it was an opportunity to spend a few days with someone I don't see all that often. It was well worth the money spent, and I wouldn't have traded that bonding time for anything.

 

To me, the people who get wayyyyy too into winning club events are a bit sad. I feel like it's the same type of people who show up to a rec league softball game with eye black, sweat bands, and baseball pants on... Makes me wonder how much is lacking in their personal life that they have to take a recreational sport that seriously...

[Obee]

Guest B all day, every day.
 

If you have even a competitive bone in your body.

 

There is just nothing like competitive golf. Were you actually have a chance to compete.
 

You can always have fun with your non-Golf buddies in other ways. If he is that good of a friend, do other things with him. Go bowling. Go camping. Go fishing. Go to dinner.

 

You are a decent golfer.

 

Compete. 

[Obee]

Follow up: if you are uncomfortable with getting too much money, tell your buddy that you are only in for 10% of the action. Or 20%, or whatever you are happy with. Give him a number, "I want my max exposure for the entire weekend to be $200." Something like that. I absolutely love to gamble. I have no problem losing two or $3000 playing golf. But I know not everyone is like that. I am always fine with a buddy telling me "make all the bets you want but my max exposure is X"

 

dictating

[cardoustie]

Do you have a buddy C .. a 12 cap that is fun and plays great under pressure?  Asking for a friend

[vandyfan]

On 3/4/2025 at 2:45 PM, Llortamaisey said:

How about Option 4… work on your handicap management, get your cap to a 9, and then invite player A?

 

I have moved steadily up from a 1.5 index to a 4 and that feels like the ceiling before I start actively cheating to get my handicap HIGHER. I have been playing very aggressively for the past several months and working on a lot of things in my swing. I learned my lesson that I never want to get down to a 1-2 index again. I got absolutely OBLITERATED in handicapped matches/events. I have no business down there. A 4-5? I can be very dangerous there. 

[vandyfan]

To put a bow on this, I ended up asking Guest A. He is currently a 18 and I am a 4 but whatever we will see how it goes. I will not be betting on anything or buying my team in the calcutta and he gets that.

[Par4Nate]

On 3/5/2025 at 6:01 PM, Obee said:

Guest B all day, every day.
 

If you have even a competitive bone in your body.

 

There is just nothing like competitive golf.

 

 

Is a member-guest ‘competitive golf’?  Really?

[Obee]

50 minutes ago, Par4Nate said:

 

Is a member-guest ‘competitive golf’?  Really?

That depends greatly on the member-guest. I have played in ones that are hyper competitive with thousands of dollars at stake, and ones that are much less so.

[vandyfan]

On 3/15/2025 at 2:45 PM, Par4Nate said:

Is a member-guest ‘competitive golf’?  Really?

 

For me, someone who doesn't play in USGA events or any competitive events outside of my club....yes it feels very much like competitive golf. Throw in the fact that most people buy their own teams in the calcutta and I would say the avg price per team is $1000 (just for the calcutta). 

 

The thing that always throws cold water on the "is it a comp" is the handicapped aspect but that is what it is. 

[Shilgy]

On 3/15/2025 at 1:36 PM, Obee said:

That depends greatly on the member-guest. I have played in ones that are hyper competitive with thousands of dollars at stake, and ones that are much less so.

My experience has been that the more dollars at stake the more the sandbagging’ sob’s ruin it.

[Petethreeput]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

the more dollars at stake the more the sandbagging’ sob’s ruin it

 

1 hour ago, vandyfan said:

avg price per team is $1000

These are the numbers we have as well, and I heartily concur with the sandbagger comment.  We don't do the horse race format, and the winner is consistently 25-30 under par in a 3 day tournament with 4 total scores entered.  We have a pretty aggressive matrix to stop the sandbagging, but no defense is enough to combat human ingenuity. (BB, then chapman, then modified stableford and both scores count)

 

I was going to say just ask Player A since the winners are rarely competing against the honest guys anyway.

[david.c.w]

On 3/15/2025 at 3:45 PM, Par4Nate said:

 

Is a member-guest ‘competitive golf’?  Really?

 

Member/guest is 100% competitive golf.  I would argue it is even more competitive because very often you are trying to beat your friends.

 

No it is not a sanctioned association event, but I play the member/guest with the goal of winning my flight.

 

[david.c.w]

2 hours ago, Par4Nate said:

People being competitive doesn’t make an event ‘competitive golf’, particularly when not everyone in the field is taking it as seriously as others.  I have friends who take weekend matches way too seriously, but it doesn’t make our rounds ‘competitive golf’.  

 

Ok bud....  

[vandyfan]

As an update, either in a cruel twist of fate or just golf in general...I am now playing at about a 9-10 hdcp level (I am soft capped so only up to 6.8 currently) so I am actually within 10 shots of my partner now as he is a 17. Unfortunately this M/G takes the lowest hdcp in the last 6 months so I am stuck playing off a 5 and I am playing horrendous golf currently. Good thing I didn't ask the good player. Now I just need to figure out how to disappear before the calcutta so I don't look like a coward not bidding on my team.