Shameful Putters

[manVSgolf]

I just read about a leaked Odyssey pseudo-DF3 on different golf website.  
 

While we kind of all saw the LAB-copycat movement coming from 10 miles away, I am still pretty grossed out by just HOW strikingly similar, and therefore in my-eyes lazy, this one is in-particular.  A disappointing move from a company that has the resources to innovate, or at least try to look like they are. 
 

On this putter, Odyssey, you have earned my ire:

 

Shame :::rings bell::: Shame :::rings bell::: Shame.

 

 

 

This felt like a bridge-too-far to me.  It may be legal, but doesn’t make it clean.  If you see someone rip-off someone to the point it makes you sad, this is your safe-space.  Call it out!!

 

Edited March 21 by manVSgolf
Got rid of pic

[MattM97]

All I remember is the PXG Blackbird from 2021 with the DF3 and whatever Odyssey is calling this, yes I know the DF2.1 was a thing before but eventually everything will be copied. 

[st1800e]

44 minutes ago, manVSgolf said:

I just read about a leaked Odyssey pseudo-DF3 on different golf website.  
 

While we kind of all saw the LAB-copycat movement coming from 10 miles away, I am still pretty grossed out by just HOW strikingly similar, and therefore in my-eyes lazy, this one is in-particular.  A disappointing move from a company that has the resources to innovate, or at least try to look like they are. 
 

On this putter, Odyssey, you have earned my ire:

 

Shame :::rings bell::: Shame :::rings bell::: Shame.

 

 

 

This felt like a bridge-too-far to me.  It may be legal, but doesn’t make it clean.  If you see someone rip-off someone to the point it makes you sad, this is your safe-space.  Call it out!!

 

You better call out all those companies that copied the ping anser too. 

[manVSgolf]

50 minutes ago, st1800e said:

You better call out all those companies that copied the ping anser too. 

That’s why I posted this.  I am curious where the line is for people.  What is OK vs not OK.  

The OG PING Anser is a Mt Rushmore putter.  I refuse to call anything a Newport or anything aside from Anser-style out of respect for PING’s innovation.  I have learned that shapes cannot be trademarked, but it doesn’t feel great seeing other companies use PING’s idea down to that little notch behind the putter neck.  
 

I personally find it interesting when companies claim “zero-torque” in their own unique ways and how they achieve it differently (and then try to prove how it is superior).  But I am not in love with a company using a shape down to the angles on the sides of the face from their competitor.  Rubbed me the wrong way to the point, I was curious to see if anyone else has felt similarly on anything.

Edited March 21 by manVSgolf

[mogc60]

You’ll have a huge list going back 59 years on the anser copies.  Let’s be real, putters get copied and I am one who doesn’t really care. So do all other golf clubs and golf equipment in general. 

[st1800e]

39 minutes ago, manVSgolf said:

That’s why I posted this.  I am curious where the line is for people.  What is OK vs not OK.  

I’m ok with everything.   Other than this thread I don’t think about it.  

[Scotty1140]

Copying shouldn’t bother anyone on a forum full of putter enthusiasts and collectors. Imagine only have one #7 or Anser or whatever to choose from. 

[golferdude54]

You have nothing to gain or lose from this, why does it matter? You’re just adding stress to your life by worrying about something you don’t have stock in or work for.

[otto6457]

So we are are calling out Scotty Cameron also?  He built his entire empire by copying the Ping Anser.  

[Scotty1140]

45 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

So we are are calling out Scotty Cameron also?  He built his entire empire by copying the Ping Anser.  

And he takes a disproportionate amount of criticism for copying other people’s stuff although the ENTIRE industry does it. 

Cameron’s brand get copied too. Maybe not as much in putter design, but without Cameron, would the amount of boutique putter makers, putter refinishers, and custom order options exist to the extent it does today? Probably not. 

 

And we benefit from it. This is the oddest thing on a putter forum to complain about. 

Edited March 22 by Scotty1140

[otto6457]

1 hour ago, Scotty1140 said:

And he takes a disproportionate amount of criticism for copying other people’s stuff although the ENTIRE industry does it. 

Cameron’s brand get copied too. Maybe not as much in putter design, but without Cameron, would the amount of boutique putter makers, putter refinishers, and custom order options exist to the extent it does today? Probably not. 

 

And we benefit from it. This is the oddest thing on a putter forum to complain about. 

 

How is it disproportionate?  It's a fact.  Just because the Scotty "posse" doesn't like the fact, doesn't mean it's not true,  Saying the "entire industry" does it, doesn't get Cameron off the hook.  That's like saying it's alright to plagiarize a term paper because everyone else is doing it.   

 

Giving Scotty Cameron credit for boutique putter makers, refinishers, custom options is a stretch.  Copying a copycat isn't a stellar accomplishment.  The entre Chinese economy is built on stealing and copying other people's ideas.

 

I have no problem with Scotty Cameron putters.  My favorite putter of all time was a Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport 2.  It got stolen out of my bag in 2004 and I've never found a putter that could fully replace it.  But I fully understand it was a fancy Ping Anser.

 

Scotty saw an opportunity to make an already well designed and engineered putter design, in a more appealing package, and sell it for a lot more profit.  More power to him.  But pretending he didn't build his entire business model off the Ping Anser isn't in touch with reality.

[st1800e]

2 hours ago, Scotty1140 said:

And he takes a disproportionate amount of criticism for copying other people’s stuff

I doubt he cares. 😉
 

2 hours ago, Scotty1140 said:

This is the oddest thing on a putter forum to complain about. 

✅

[Ghostwedge]

12 hours ago, otto6457 said:

 

How is it disproportionate?  It's a fact.  Just because the Scotty "posse" doesn't like the fact, doesn't mean it's not true,  Saying the "entire industry" does it, doesn't get Cameron off the hook.  That's like saying it's alright to plagiarize a term paper because everyone else is doing it.   

 

Giving Scotty Cameron credit for boutique putter makers, refinishers, custom options is a stretch.  Copying a copycat isn't a stellar accomplishment.  The entre Chinese economy is built on stealing and copying other people's ideas.

 

I have no problem with Scotty Cameron putters.  My favorite putter of all time was a Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport 2.  It got stolen out of my bag in 2004 and I've never found a putter that could fully replace it.  But I fully understand it was a fancy Ping Anser.

 

Scotty saw an opportunity to make an already well designed and engineered putter design, in a more appealing package, and sell it for a lot more profit.  More power to him.  But pretending he didn't build his entire business model off the Ping Anser isn't in touch with reality.

What's odd is your favorite putter of all time hasn't been replaced by  another SC Oil Can NP2 since 2004. At least a thousand have been for sale since then, what's the hold up, after all it's just shinier version of an Anser....

[mogc60]

16 hours ago, otto6457 said:

So we are are calling out Scotty Cameron also?  He built his entire empire by copying the Ping Anser.  

Hahaha he was like number 2500 to copy it…but he became very successful doing it so he’s hated by many. Makes zero sense. If you look at his early work there was no Anser copies. He seemed to follow more of a Tad Moore and TP Mills look to his putters. But then he got HIRED by Titleist based on his work to design their high end putter line. The rest is history with incredible success. For the record I do not own a Scotty putter and the only ones I ever owned were his bullseye models as I personally cannot putt with an anser head it doesn’t match my stroke at all. I’ve never understood because he is so successful he draws the hate he does. The thousands of copies before him never had any success 

[otto6457]

1 hour ago, Ghostwedge said:

What's odd is your favorite putter of all time hasn't been replaced by  another SC Oil Can NP2 since 2004. At least a thousand have been for sale since then, what's the hold up, after all it's just shinier version of an Anser....

 

Not strange at all.  That putter was a gift from my late father if you feel like that makes any difference.

[mogc60]

14 hours ago, otto6457 said:

 

How is it disproportionate?  It's a fact.  Just because the Scotty "posse" doesn't like the fact, doesn't mean it's not true,  Saying the "entire industry" does it, doesn't get Cameron off the hook.  That's like saying it's alright to plagiarize a term paper because everyone else is doing it.   

 

Giving Scotty Cameron credit for boutique putter makers, refinishers, custom options is a stretch.  Copying a copycat isn't a stellar accomplishment.  The entre Chinese economy is built on stealing and copying other people's ideas.

 

I have no problem with Scotty Cameron putters.  My favorite putter of all time was a Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport 2.  It got stolen out of my bag in 2004 and I've never found a putter that could fully replace it.  But I fully understand it was a fancy Ping Anser.

 

Scotty saw an opportunity to make an already well designed and engineered putter design, in a more appealing package, and sell it for a lot more profit.  More power to him.  But pretending he didn't build his entire business model off the Ping Anser isn't in touch with reality.

Your last statement here is absolutely false. If you knew anything about Scotty’s history you would know it started before the internet and making putters in his garage. Not on a mass scale but selling them locally using word of mouth to build his reputation. As that grew he developed putter lines to sell on a bigger scale most of those resemble Moore and Mills designs 

One big step was Nicklaus using one of his putters in a US Open. Then Bernhard won the 93 masters with a Cameron custom design built for him. It was when he started with Titleist and he made the Tiger putter that he used to win his 3rd straight US Am title that it exploded and that was when he truly started his copy of the Anser design and refined it over and over again based on the success it generated. That wasn’t his business model that’s how the business evolved. 
 

[Scotty1140]

15 hours ago, otto6457 said:

 

How is it disproportionate?  It's a fact.  Just because the Scotty "posse" doesn't like the fact, doesn't mean it's not true,  Saying the "entire industry" does it, doesn't get Cameron off the hook.  That's like saying it's alright to plagiarize a term paper because everyone else is doing it.   

 

Giving Scotty Cameron credit for boutique putter makers, refinishers, custom options is a stretch.  Copying a copycat isn't a stellar accomplishment.  The entre Chinese economy is built on stealing and copying other people's ideas.

 

I have no problem with Scotty Cameron putters.  My favorite putter of all time was a Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport 2.  It got stolen out of my bag in 2004 and I've never found a putter that could fully replace it.  But I fully understand it was a fancy Ping Anser.

 

Scotty saw an opportunity to make an already well designed and engineered putter design, in a more appealing package, and sell it for a lot more profit.  More power to him.  But pretending he didn't build his entire business model off the Ping Anser isn't in touch with reality.

Never stated or implied he should get “off the hook”. Not sure where that’s coming from. 
 

He gets a wildly disproportionate amount of criticism compared to others for doing the exact same thing. 
 

Let’s say every brand out there today makes a straight up Lab copy and releases it. 
 

Who receives the most amount of criticism for the copy? We all know who.

 

The whole point of my posts is simply to say my mind is blown that a forum full of equipment junkies get all bothered that someone copies something, even though chances are nearly every club in all our bags have features that one brand copied from another brand.

 

We’re the beneficiaries of all of it. 
 

 

[iteachgolf]

14 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

Your last statement here is absolutely false. If you knew anything about Scotty’s history you would know it started before the internet and making putters in his garage. Not on a mass scale but selling them locally using word of mouth to build his reputation. As that grew he developed putter lines to sell on a bigger scale most of those resemble Moore and Mills designs 

One big step was Nicklaus using one of his putters in a US Open. Then Bernhard won the 93 masters with a Cameron custom design built for him. It was when he started with Titleist and he made the Tiger putter that he used to win his 3rd straight US Am title that it exploded and that was when he truly started his copy of the Anser design and refined it over and over again based on the success it generated. That wasn’t his business model that’s how the business evolved. 
 

close but not 100% accurate.  He worked for Kia Ma at Ray Cook before he went out on his own.  Bettinardi machined the heads, Kia Ma did the finish work, and Scotty sold them under his own name for a short time then later Mizuno.  But he wasn’t making putters in his garage.  He designs putters but has always outsourced the machining. 

[57charlie]

Copying of golf related equipment or the like has been going on for centuries. ie: In 1848, Dr. Rev. R. Patterson invented the "gutta-percha" golf ball to replace the "feathery" that was played in the mid to late 1400's. That was improved upon fifty years later in 1898 by Coburn Haskell who developed the rubber wound/covered Haskell golf ball. In the early 1960's the Dupont Chemical Co. is credited with the first synthetic urethane cover that is in play to this very day. Not any different with the golf clubs that have evolved from day one, someone, somewhere will always come up with "a new and improved" version of it. And the same can be said for tennis racquets, baseball bats, pool cues, etc.

[CapeCodGolfer]

On 3/21/2025 at 12:42 PM, manVSgolf said:

I just read about a leaked Odyssey pseudo-DF3 on different golf website.  
 

While we kind of all saw the LAB-copycat movement coming from 10 miles away, I am still pretty grossed out by just HOW strikingly similar, and therefore in my-eyes lazy, this one is in-particular.  A disappointing move from a company that has the resources to innovate, or at least try to look like they are. 
 

On this putter, Odyssey, you have earned my ire:

 

Shame :::rings bell::: Shame :::rings bell::: Shame.

 

 

 

This felt like a bridge-too-far to me.  It may be legal, but doesn’t make it clean.  If you see someone rip-off someone to the point it makes you sad, this is your safe-space.  Call it out!!

 

I totally agree, but long term it will help odyssey catch up and LAB keep innovating so more competition should benefit golfers in the end

[jtj74]

On 3/21/2025 at 1:42 PM, manVSgolf said:

I just read about a leaked Odyssey pseudo-DF3 on different golf website.  
 

While we kind of all saw the LAB-copycat movement coming from 10 miles away, I am still pretty grossed out by just HOW strikingly similar, and therefore in my-eyes lazy, this one is in-particular.  A disappointing move from a company that has the resources to innovate, or at least try to look like they are. 
 

On this putter, Odyssey, you have earned my ire:

 

Shame :::rings bell::: Shame :::rings bell::: Shame.

 

 

 

This felt like a bridge-too-far to me.  It may be legal, but doesn’t make it clean.  If you see someone rip-off someone to the point it makes you sad, this is your safe-space.  Call it out!!

 

This really the first time you've seen a copied putter design? 

[TNwanabe]

Just cut and paste this topic every time this happens......you will be busy.......It happens in every industry and always will. 

[Steelhead]

On 3/21/2025 at 3:42 PM, manVSgolf said:

I just read about a leaked Odyssey pseudo-DF3 on different golf website.  
 

While we kind of all saw the LAB-copycat movement coming from 10 miles away, I am still pretty grossed out by just HOW strikingly similar, and therefore in my-eyes lazy, this one is in-particular.  A disappointing move from a company that has the resources to innovate, or at least try to look like they are. 
 

On this putter, Odyssey, you have earned my ire:

 

Shame :::rings bell::: Shame :::rings bell::: Shame.

 

 

 

This felt like a bridge-too-far to me.  It may be legal, but doesn’t make it clean.  If you see someone rip-off someone to the point it makes you sad, this is your safe-space.  Call it out!!

 

As we know, Odyssey has a history with zero-torque designs, like the 2010 Backstryke and 2016 Toe Up lines, predating L.A.B.’s rise. The Square 2 Square builds on this these designs , adding Ai-One insert, Stroke Lab shaft, rather than directly lifting L.A.B.’s Lie Angle Balance method. The concept of torque-free putting isn’t owned by L.A.B.—it’s a design philosophy others can legally pursue.

Odyssey’s Square 2 Square putter, especially the Max models, heavily echoes the L.A.B. DF3 in shape and intent. Copying? Yeah. However, it’s not a direct clone; Odyssey adapts the zero-torque with its own tech, not a carbon copy of L.A.B.’s process. Nothing new under the sun.

Edited March 27 by Steelhead

[Shwagin1066]

On 3/21/2025 at 10:08 PM, otto6457 said:

 

How is it disproportionate?  It's a fact.  Just because the Scotty "posse" doesn't like the fact, doesn't mean it's not true,  Saying the "entire industry" does it, doesn't get Cameron off the hook.  That's like saying it's alright to plagiarize a term paper because everyone else is doing it.   

 

Giving Scotty Cameron credit for boutique putter makers, refinishers, custom options is a stretch.  Copying a copycat isn't a stellar accomplishment.  The entre Chinese economy is built on stealing and copying other people's ideas.

 

I have no problem with Scotty Cameron putters.  My favorite putter of all time was a Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport 2.  It got stolen out of my bag in 2004 and I've never found a putter that could fully replace it.  But I fully understand it was a fancy Ping Anser.

 

Scotty saw an opportunity to make an already well designed and engineered putter design, in a more appealing package, and sell it for a lot more profit.  More power to him.  But pretending he didn't build his entire business model off the Ping Anser isn't in touch with reality.

As others have pointed out, this is complete and utter nonsense. Perhaps learn about the history of the brand. His earliest models had absolutely zero anser shapes. 

[kmay__]

If Odyssey can make one that looks and performs like the LAB but doesn't cost folks 700 dollars I think that's a good thing. More people can get to try that new tech who maybe can't afford to spend the money that the boutique companies charge. Just like the Scotty is essentially a more refined expensive version of other past designs for people who want to spend a bit more for a higher quality product, the same goes the other way. 

[StoutKing]

2 hours ago, Steelhead said:

As we know, Odyssey has a history with zero-torque designs, like the 2010 Backstryke and 2016 Toe Up lines, predating L.A.B.’s rise. The Square 2 Square builds on this these designs , adding Ai-One insert, Stroke Lab shaft, rather than directly lifting L.A.B.’s Lie Angle Balance method. The concept of torque-free putting isn’t owned by L.A.B.—it’s a design philosophy others can legally pursue.

Odyssey’s Square 2 Square putter, especially the Max models, heavily echoes the L.A.B. DF3 in shape and intent. Copying? Yeah. However, it’s not a direct clone; Odyssey adapts the zero-torque with its own tech, not a carbon copy of L.A.B.’s process. Nothing new under the sun.

I still feel like this is way too close of a copy for the benefit of the doubt.  Hell, at least other companies waited for the Anser patent to expire before copying.  I've always liked the Odyssey brand but this drops them a peg in my book.

[Shwagin1066]

3 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

I still feel like this is way too close of a copy for the benefit of the doubt.  Hell, at least other companies waited for the Anser patent to expire before copying.  I've always liked the Odyssey brand but this drops them a peg in my book.

pretty soon there’ll be no putters left for you! Have to start putting with a 7 iron like Roy McAvoy 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

16 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

I still feel like this is way too close of a copy for the benefit of the doubt.  Hell, at least other companies waited for the Anser patent to expire before copying.  I've always liked the Odyssey brand but this drops them a peg in my book.

Wait, what are Toulon putters copies of?

[StoutKing]

1 minute ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Wait, what are Toulon putters copies of?

The only Toulon I've owned is a fang shape, plumber's neck mallet.  Pretty sure Sean Toulon or Odyssey where he worked pioneered the design.  So I have no beef with that putter.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 minute ago, StoutKing said:

The only Toulon I've owned is a fang shape, plumber's neck mallet.  Pretty sure Sean Toulon or Odyssey where he worked pioneered the design.  So I have no beef with that putter.

 

Let me get this right...

 

Odyssey making a similar LAB = bad

Scotty making a similar Anser = good

LAB making a similar Who-dinni/Backstroke putter = good

Toulon making similar designs to other putters = good

 

So only LAB putters can not be copied, or similar models produced?  Do you see the hypocrisy in the above?  Either all is okay, or none.  You can't have it both ways.