Shameful Putters

[tatertot]

On 3/21/2025 at 5:39 PM, golferdude54 said:

You have nothing to gain or lose from this, why does it matter? You’re just adding stress to your life by worrying about something you don’t have stock in or work for.

This ... Life is too short to get worked up by the little stuff. 

 

But it is fun to talk about now and again!

[Shwagin1066]

2 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

 

Let me get this right...

 

Odyssey making a similar LAB = bad

Scotty making a similar Anser = good

LAB making a similar Who-dinni/Backstroke putter = good

Toulon making similar designs to other putters = good

 

So only LAB putters can not be copied, or similar models produced?  Do you see the hypocrisy in the above?  Either all is okay, or none.  You can't have it both ways.

oh he loves to have it both ways. It’s the only way he’ll have it, in fact. 2200 posts since he joined a year ago and he contradicts himself in a minimum of 2000 of them 😅

Edited March 27 by Shwagin1066

[StoutKing]

1 minute ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

 

Let me get this right...

 

Odyssey making a similar LAB = bad

Scotty making a similar Anser = good

LAB making a similar Who-dinni/Backstroke putter = good

Toulon making similar designs to other putters = good

 

So only LAB putters can not be copied, or similar models produced?  Do you see the hypocrisy in the above?  Either all is okay, or none.  You can't have it both ways.

I respect your opinion and am really not that invested.  I was simply disappointed that an historically innovative brand like Odyssey flat out copied it so soon.  That's it.

[Shwagin1066]

1 minute ago, StoutKing said:

I respect your opinion and am really not that invested.  I was simply disappointed that an historically innovative brand like Odyssey flat out copied it so soon.  That's it.

You’re not that invested, but you’ve made 2200 posts in a year and you’re bashing one brand or another in 2000 of them. Makes sense 

[puttingmatt]

On 3/27/2025 at 5:31 AM, Steelhead said:

As we know, Odyssey has a history with zero-torque designs, like the 2010 Backstryke and 2016 Toe Up lines, predating L.A.B.’s rise. The Square 2 Square builds on this these designs , adding Ai-One insert, Stroke Lab shaft, rather than directly lifting L.A.B.’s Lie Angle Balance method. The concept of torque-free putting isn’t owned by L.A.B.—it’s a design philosophy others can legally pursue.

Odyssey’s Square 2 Square putter, especially the Max models, heavily echoes the L.A.B. DF3 in shape and intent. Copying? Yeah. However, it’s not a direct clone; Odyssey adapts the zero-torque with its own tech, not a carbon copy of L.A.B.’s process. Nothing new under the sun.

Exactly, Odyssey  did this long before lab putters came to market. Shameful that facts will prove this thread is off its mark.  Although, complaints against Cameron putters may have more merit.

Edited March 28 by puttingmatt

[jda]

LAB also copied "low twist" putters of the past.  Spaulding, bullit and others had cavity back putters before Karsten was around.  No need to get worked up over most of this since not even Ping designs were truly novel at their core.

 

All of this can be good.  Would there be any PLD or other high quality anser types without scotty cameron, or would Ping still be making putters out of cast junk metal still?  I would argue that Ping putters would not be what they are today without a Newport... Ping got better.  Besides anybody who thinks that Cameron only has a name or brand because of the Newport is lazy and does not know their history.  When SC milled high quality carbon steel putters (or TP Mills and many others) came out in the 1990s, they just were different than any Anser on the market - the feel and the roll that they put on the ball was just different and people switched in a hurry... in an era when roll might have mattered more than it did today.  Anybody who was around and played at a high level back then knows exactly what I mean.

 

Either get mad at every brand that is around nowadays or get mad at none of them.  You all do know that nearly every club that has come out in the last few decades was out in Japan an iteration before, right?  If you want to see what you will be buying in a year or two, check out Yonex, Honma or the like.

[jda]

Just in general in life, if you think of somebody who is famous for something, they just made it big with the idea, they did not come up with it.  No, Henry Ford did not invent the assembly line.  Neither did Thomas Edison, Zuckerberg, Bell the telephone and some dude used Penicillin decades before Fleming got credit.  Shakespeare did not come up with all of those stories. LAB did not invent the lie about zero torque.  Karsten did not come up with cavity back putters.  The list goes on and on.  There is some person out there who had the original ideas who only few have ever heard of who died poor... and might get some recognition a century after their death in a museum somewhere.

[StoutKing]

56 minutes ago, jda said:

 not even Ping designs were truly novel at their core.

 

LOLOL.  You are a trip buddy

[jda]

Also, what is with all of the hate for free market principles?  Patents have life spans for a reason... to spur innovation and competition, not to quell it.  Even if a golf club company came up with a truly novel idea, they only get 15 or 20 years (depending) once they file to own it which does not count R&D, ramp up, manufacturing, etc.  After this, the free market takes over.  Do WRXers hate capitalism?

 

I am joking.  I know that all of this does not go any deeper than small-minded, fanboy brand love... or hate.  If each person's favorite company took an idea from another, it would be cool in that case.

 

I choose to hate all brands equally.

[Pnwpingi210]

On 3/21/2025 at 5:26 PM, Scotty1140 said:

And he takes a disproportionate amount of criticism for copying other people’s stuff although the ENTIRE industry does it. 

Cameron’s brand get copied too. Maybe not as much in putter design, but without Cameron, would the amount of boutique putter makers, putter refinishers, and custom order options exist to the extent it does today? Probably not. 

 

And we benefit from it. This is the oddest thing on a putter forum to complain about. 

….username checks out…..

 

cheers🍻

[manVSgolf]

I appreciate everyone’s input.  I actually have gotten a good amount out of this.  I am now more interested in seeing how differently Odyssey’s putter performs against the DF3, and what their version attempts to improve on.  
 

While I still think it’s lame to copy LAB to that degree this soon, I welcome the future improvements that putters/manufactures may see, which may have resulted from their slightly different design.  Hopefully this trickles down to me at some point and gives me an even better tool to putt golf balls with. 

[Scotty1140]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

….username checks out…..

 

cheers🍻

It’s my name, but you can call me Don

 

 

Edited March 28 by Scotty1140

[Pnwpingi210]

9 minutes ago, Scotty1140 said:

It’s my name, but you can call me Don

 

 

It was just a good natured joke.

[Scotty1140]

24 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It was just a good natured joke.

Oh I knew haha

 

Was a good natured joke right back at ya. Don is actually Scotty Cameron’s first name. 

 

 

Edited March 28 by Scotty1140

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, Scotty1140 said:

Oh I knew haha

 

Was a good natured joke right back at ya. Don is actually Scotty Cameron’s first name. 

 

 

Touché!

[Puttersaurus Rex]

2 hours ago, manVSgolf said:

While I still think it’s lame to copy LAB to that degree this soon, I welcome the future improvements that putters/manufactures may see, which may have resulted from their slightly different design.  Hopefully this trickles down to me at some point and gives me an even better tool to putt golf balls with. 

 

 

Direct Force/LAB has been around since 2015/2016  (patents 2013/14 ).  Other variations going back even farther.  How long should the other companies wait?

 

I think the future is now, and that is why there are so many versions of the style by different OEMs
😎

  

Edited March 28 by Puttersaurus Rex

[manVSgolf]

12 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

 

 

Direct Force/LAB has been around since 2015/2016.  Other variations going back even farther.  How long should the other companies wait?

 

I think the future is now, and that is why there are so many versions of the style by different OEMs
😎

 

DF3, 2024

[jda]

Somebody might have mentioned this already, but DF3 is a Blackbird with a hole in it - don't know which one has more screws in the bottom of it, but both have a lot.  The Omega type of shape is not new to LAB.

Edited March 28 by jda

[Puttersaurus Rex]

43 minutes ago, manVSgolf said:

DF3, 2024

 

I haven’t found a copyright/patent on the DF3 head-shape.  

[Puttersaurus Rex]

21 minutes ago, jda said:

Somebody might have mentioned this already, but DF3 is a Blackbird with a hole in it - don't know which one has more screws in the bottom of it, but both have a lot.  The Omega type of shape is not new to LAB.

Also a Bettinardi Baby Ben.

[BCC1898]

Deleted. Off topic. 

Edited March 29 by BCC1898