How many shots a round does DUMB golf cost you?

[Hawkeye77]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

 

Keep up. I stated in later posts - after discussing - 10 bad decisions equate to something around 5 lost shots.

Another nice post that gets a snarky response from you.

 

Folks don't have to agree and they've been darn polite about not agreeing when they don't.  

[Foxx]

Just now, Shilgy said:

5 or 10 my point would be the same.  

 

The number is irrelevant. Point is bad decisions cost us shots.

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Another nice post that gets a snarky response from you.

 

Folks don't have to agree and they've been darn polite about not agreeing when they don't.  

 

I'm good with the genuine ones who post their opinions. Yours have been the only snarky ones.

 

 

Edited April 9 by Foxx

[Shilgy]

Just now, Foxx said:

 

The number is irrelevant. Point is bad decisions cost us shots.

No, the point is making all good decisions won’t make us tour pros. Or even scratch players.  You’re going to hit crappy shots.

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

No, the point is making all good decisions won’t make us tour pros. Or even scratch players.  You’re going to hit crappy shots.

 

Of course.

[Foxx]

9 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

5 or 10 my point would be the same.  You’re not going to start averaging 75 instead of 80 with all good decisions.

 

I'm very confident making all good decisions would take 5 shots off my game.

A lot of rounds I'm making a bad decision almost every hole 😅.

[mshills]

16 minutes ago, Foxx said:

Keep up. I stated….

Not cool, not necessary at all. If you want to discuss and debate, great. If you want someone to stroke you, wrong forum. 
 

The responses are right on. I’ll make it up. 15 handicap thinks he loses 10 strokes per round so he goes out determined to club up, hit putter from off the green when he wants to grab his 60*, punch out to the fairway instead of trying the hero recovery, and give his full attention to every 18” putt. 
 

Guess what? He can’t. That’s why he is a 15. He still misses a two footer, pops up a drive, tops a 3w, and leaves that Texas wedge six feet short of the green and puts up his 92. 
 

If it was as simple as “making better decisions” then anyone could play, and we know that’s not true. 

[ChrisSP]

1 minute ago, mshills said:

Not cool, not necessary at all. If you want to discuss and debate, great. If you want someone to stroke you, wrong forum. 
 

The responses are right on. I’ll make it up. 15 handicap thinks he loses 10 strokes per round so he goes out determined to club up, hit putter from off the green when he wants to grab his 60*, punch out to the fairway instead of trying the hero recovery, and give his full attention to every 18” putt. 
 

Guess what? He can’t. That’s why he is a 15. He still misses a two footer, pops up a drive, tops a 3w, and leaves that Texas wedge six feet short of the green and puts up his 92. 
 

If it was as simple as “making better decisions” then anyone could play, and we know that’s not true. 

 

[Foxx]

8 minutes ago, mshills said:

Not cool, not necessary at all. If you want to discuss and debate, great. If you want someone to stroke you, wrong forum. 
 

The responses are right on. I’ll make it up. 15 handicap thinks he loses 10 strokes per round so he goes out determined to club up, hit putter from off the green when he wants to grab his 60*, punch out to the fairway instead of trying the hero recovery, and give his full attention to every 18” putt. 
 

Guess what? He can’t. That’s why he is a 15. He still misses a two footer, pops up a drive, tops a 3w, and leaves that Texas wedge six feet short of the green and puts up his 92. 
 

If it was as simple as “making better decisions” then anyone could play, and we know that’s not true. 

 

I'm all for differing opinions and rebuttals. But I'm going to defend myself against snarky potshots brother.

 

Also you've given examples of badly executed shots. I'm talking about bad decisions. Two different things.

 

 

Edited April 9 by Foxx

[mshills]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

 

I'm all for differing opinions and rebuttals. But I'm going to defend myself brother.

 

 

 

Cool dawg. If making better decisions would get you to shoot about 75 instead of about 80, why not get on with it?
 

That’s a big difference…shaving 5 strokes off your index can take 5 years!

[Mcdgolfsalot]

Great topic! In my opinion there is a big difference between truly dumb shots and just poor execution. 
a dumb shot is trying to carry a a 3 wood off the deck 250 over a pond into the wind when a stock 3 wood goes 245. Or Trying to needle one through a 2 foot gap off the pine straw. Or hitting it out of the pond left handed cause you see half the ball, instead of taking your drop
poor execution is making the smart shot, but doing it poorly. Try like we will l, We are all going to do that. Hogan said he hits 2 shots per round like he wanted too. 
truly dumb shots probably cost me A few shots a round. Trying to get smarter.

poor execution sadly almost every hole 

 

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

 

Cool dawg. If making better decisions would get you to shoot about 75 instead of about 80, why not get on with it?
 

That’s a big difference…shaving 5 strokes off your index can take 5 years!

 

Yes I've booked in for 3 on course lessons, focusing on course management.

 

Even though after the shot I know the bad decision I made, it will be good having a coach there illustrating the correct move prior to hitting.

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by Foxx

[golferdude54]

7 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

Yes I've booked in for 3 on course lessons, focusing on course management.

 

Even though after the shot I know the bad decision I made, it will be good having a coach there illustrating the correct move prior to hitting.

 

 

 

What makes you think you’re gonna agree with the coach on a shot you should hit when you’ve disagreed with everyone in this thread?

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, golferdude54 said:

What makes you think you’re gonna agree with the coach on a shot you should hit when you’ve disagreed with everyone in this thread?

 

I've agreed with 99% of the posters here. (Who have also shared the same view). It's just the troll 1% that don't like the idea they make dumb decisions.

 

 

Edited April 9 by Foxx

[GoGoErky]

30 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

I've agreed with 99% of the posters here. (Who have also shared the same view). It's just the troll 1% that don't like the idea they make dumb decisions.

 

 

You have a warped sense of what trolling is. Nobody has trolled you.

 

 

[Sean124]

If I caddied for the average person I see shoot in the 80s I could probably save them a couple shots a round, but good decisions don’t fix their golf swings or putting strokes. 

[Foxx]

Edit.

Edited April 9 by Foxx
Over that dribble.

[tx_bayou]

On 4/3/2025 at 4:26 AM, Foxx said:

I feel like it costs me close to 10 shots a round.

Including wrong club selections based on factors eg wind, slope.

Sloppy green inspection before putts.

Setting up to the ball wrong, but hitting anyway.

Trying to play miracle shots. The list goes on with bad decisions.

We make lots of decisions every round. How many shots are your bad ones costing you?

I think I'm up there as one of the dumbest golfers going around 😆.

 

Still scoring around 80 somehow. Probably only due to being able to hit the ball a good distance. And being relatively consistent with everything.

 

10 shots a round??

 

If I was losing 10 shots a round purely due to “dumb decisions” I would probably change the way I play significantly.

Edited April 9 by tx_bayou

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Par 5 Story...

 

Caddie picks a conservative target for the player off the tee, playing away from a creek that runs up the right side of the hole.  Player's been driving the ball well all day, but he pulls the tee shot left, into the rough, behind a tree—Caddie advises good decision, player agrees, and doesn't quite execute.  Possibly just fatigue at the end of a round.  No worries, it's probably a three shot hole anyway.

 

2nd Shot:  Player wants to attempt to hook a 5 wood (from like 270 out) around the tree from a ball-below-feet lie, out of the rough, over a creek that diagonally intersects the fairway.  Caddie suggests the safer play is to lay up into the fairway, short of the creek.  Player ignores caddie.  Feels good about his decision.  Ends up over swinging and hitting a duck hook that goes (miraculously) around the tree, but never gets up in the air and dribbles down the left side of the fairway.  Somehow it's so bad that it rolls up 1-2 feet short of the creek—Caddie advises good decision, player disagrees, and fails to execute; however, crisis averted, and the players not that much worse off than if they took the prudent lay up.

 

3rd Shot: Clear shot into the green, 110 yard uphill approach from the rough (over a bunker) to a back left pin.  Player is unsure what to do.  Caddie asks if the player feels more comfortable clubbing down and swinging hard (out of the rough), or clubbing up and taking an easy swing (at the end of the round when the player is tired).  Player says he just wants the caddie to tell him what to do.  Caddie advises clubbing up (take the bunker out of play), swinging easy, and aiming out at the middle of the green, away from a back left pin.  Player heeds the caddie's advice, but takes another big swing at the ball and pull-hooks it again, this time left and long of the pin and the green—Caddie advises good decision, player is noncommittal, and fails to execute.

 

4th Shot:  Player is absolutely screwed (short-sided) long of the green, which runs away from the player.  Caddie tell him the only way to get the ball close to the hole is to bump a chip into the top of the hillside to kill the speed and let it release down to the hole.  Extremely high risk shot given that the rough is thick and the chip distance is a good 15-20 feet.  If the player is a foot short, the ball could get caught up in the rough.  A foot long, and the ball could go over the other side of the green, potentially into the bunker.  Player somehow miraculously executes the shot perfectly, ball stops about 5 feet next to the hole—Caddie advises "bad" (risky) decision, player agrees, and executes brilliantly.  Now we've got an unexpected par save prospect.

 

5th Shot:  Caddie is excited now.  Knows this putt like the back of his hand.  Advises the player of the appropriate line and speed.  Player is flabbergasted that the putt needs to be as far outside the hole as the caddie is suggesting.  Doesn't see the break.  Caddie doubles down on the line and speed.  Tells the player to trust it.  Player pulls the putt left of the necessary start line and doesn't hit it hard enough, ball trickles short and left of (below) the hole.  Caddie advises good decision, player is noncommittal, and fails to execute.  

 

Player took his chances on the hole and could have ended with a double or worse, but taps in for a comfortable bogey.  Probably the same result as if the player hit a "safer" layup and chip (away from the hole), and attempted to protect bogey with a two putt.

 

 

Moral of the story...Maybe we spend too much time trying to make sense of a game where there's little to be found, and hopefully we're spending at least as much time just having fun.

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

Cheer up Charlie, and just tell us all how many shots you lose to dumb decisions. 

 

 

Very few, and I'm a 21.8 index. I'd say it's 0-2 per round, on average. 

 

I lose a LOT due to execution. But I generally try to think my way around a course and minimize dumb decisions. 

• I take enough club on approach. I don't base my approach on that ONE time I hit my 7i 185 yards, downhill, with a tailwind. I base it on the fact that 170 is my stock yardage for said 7i. As such, while I miss a lot of greens at my skill level, I miss them pin-high on good strikes, and I'm only short on mishits (execution)--for me most commonly toe strikes. 
• I generally don't lose shots to not accounting for wind. I try to keep a close eye on it. My most regular course has back-to-back par 3's that the first is usually with the prevailing wind, and the second is opposite the prevailing wind, and they're often playing the same yardage. And it's not uncommon for me to have a two-club difference in my club selection on the two holes based on whether I'm with or against the wind.
• I generally try to identify the most statistically optimal way to play a hole. Another course I play has a dogleg left par 5 where I can take a 5i and aim for the turn, or I can take a driver and try to cut the corner. But there's OB left, and I'm a hack, so even though cutting the corner could give me the ability to get me home in 2, I don't have the skill to pull that off, often enough that it makes sense. So it's iron off the tee. Same with a short par 4 on my most commonly played course. A driver off the tee could put me close--best I've ever made is 18" off the green on the front fringe. But there's a pond left at driver distance and I have a left miss. And the landing area at 5i distance is EXTREMELY wide and generous. So I hit iron and leave myself a wedge in. 
• I generally try to avoid hero shots. If I put myself in a bad position, I take my medicine. The times when I try not to, it usually bites me in the behind. That same par 5 I just mentioned, last time I played it I hit my 5i off the tee but pulled it left. I found it in bounds, but it was in dirt in a bit of a hole. It wasn't a hole that I'd get free relief from, so I had the choice of trying to hack it out, or just taking my medicine and taking an unplayable lie. Well, I *thought* I could get it out. I took two swings with a 9i and didn't even make contact, and then took my unplayable. So yeah, I lost 2 strokes that round due to a dumb decision. But that's not the norm. When I put myself in a bad position, I usually try to figure out how to get to a good position rather than playing hero ball. 

That said, I don't think someone exists that shoots 80 but is only dumb decisions away from shooting 70. Because IMHO if you have the capability to shoot 70, you'd be putting drives in positions where you have easy approaches, and you'd be putting approaches on the green. If you're regularly getting yourself in the position to make dumb decisions, it's probably because you can't execute golf shots well enough to shoot 70. 

[Spinozist]

I probably lose 7-9 shots, but only on 3-4 bad decisions. Primarily from the tee. Example: last week on the front 9 I got greedy and tried to bomb driver over a tree-lined corner, had to drop way back and lost 2-3 shots. Then on the back 9 into the wind on a par 3, didn't take enough club over water, glug glug, another couple lost (over the back would have been an easy pitch). I also can try to get too close on pitch shots when I should just get in on the dancefloor, which can also lead to multiple lost shots from one bad decision.

[Cirno]

As you become more experienced, more dumb shots become available to you. A beginner can't really make dumb shots, because they lack knowledge of the possible outcomes (within reason).
Some examples:

1. Chipping slightly uphill on scorched bermuda becomes a dumb shot after you know you'll snag (especially when you could just putt!).
2. Attempting to hit a long iron off of powdery sand becomes a dumb shot after you realize soft sand is different from moist dirt.
3. Teeing up your hybrid way too high becomes a dumb shot after you send one into the sun.

I think a good golfer avoids their ever-increasing number of dumb shots as they gain experience, as opposed to a bad golfer who keeps playing shots they already verified as dumb.

Sometimes, you manage to identify a new dumb shot before it hurts your score (like today when I realized my 6 iron would not let me clear the lip of a fairway bunker, and my substituted 8 iron gracefully skimmed the very top of the lip on the way out, confirming my suspicions).

If it's my first time trying something new, I don't consider it a dumb shot. If I discover a shot is extremely risky or generally unwise, it goes on the dumb shot list.

That said, I also always hit one flop shot per 18 holes, because I just think it's cool.

[Foxx]

On 4/10/2025 at 4:00 AM, tx_bayou said:

10 shots a round??

 

If I was losing 10 shots a round purely due to “dumb decisions” I would probably change the way I play significantly.

 

I lose around 5 shots from the 10+ bad decisions per round.

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I lose around 5 shots from the 10+ bad decisions per round.

 

LOL, it was all about 10 shots - 10 shots - a week ago, now there's a bit of questioning and differences of opinion and looks like about an hour ago you went back and edited the original post to make it look better and now claim just 5 shots, and I assume try and make yourself look a little better in light of a few of your comments.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by Hawkeye77

[tx_bayou]

3 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I lose around 5 shots from the 10+ bad decisions per round.

I’m still lost at the 10+ bad decisions per round. 

[Foxx]

7 hours ago, tx_bayou said:

I’m still lost at the 10+ bad decisions per round. 

 

Me too 😅. But yeah probably 1 bad decision every 2nd hole on average. Very frustrating. I liked it better when I was a naive high capper that didnt know anything better.

But now the more I know what not to do, the more dumb things I do.

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by Foxx

[GoGoErky]

36 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Me too 😅. But yeah probably 1 bad decision every 2nd hole on average. Very frustrating. I liked it better when I was a naive high capper that didnt know anything better.

But now the more I know what not to do, the more dumb things I do.

 

 

 

If you know what not to do then how are you still making bad decisions and doing dumb things?

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

If you know what not to do then how are you still making bad decisions and doing dumb things?

 

I actually don't really know. 

I would spend a reasonable amount of time considering the play, then make the play. As soon a it goes bad, I know instantly I should have done this or that different. They are obvious AFTER the shot, but clouded before. Then next time, I likely make the same decision.

Just a dumb golfer.

 

 

[Foxx]

I see someone has deleted my reasonable response to Hawkeyes rubbish. Good one.

[baudi]

Ask Rory.