How many shots a round does DUMB golf cost you?

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, ChaosTheory said:

 Bad shots bother me very little.  Bad decisions bother me much more.

 

My typical ones are mis-club due to wind, not appreciating the risk on some green side shots, not protecting bogey once I’m in trouble, and shooting for front pins on our target golf greens.

 

I am reevaluating my ideas about reasonable places to miss greens.

 

This.

It's the bad decisions costing us shots that is very frustrating. The bad swings that cost the shots don't bother me as much.

 

 

Edited April 5 by Foxx

[SEP1006]

For me it's probably 3 - 5 at most. And it's not from dumb shots, just a lack of focus on my part. Being able to separate myself from whatever conversation or subject we are talking about, and just focus for 15 seconds.

[Foxx]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

A lot closer to reality than the notion if someone who shoots "around 80" eliminates "dumb" shots they'd be "around 70", i.e. par or better, it's just not the case.  You're a 10-12 because you aren't as skilled as someone who is a +1/scratch golfer.  We all hit silly shots but this idea of "dumb" as expressed is just an excuse for not being real about one's game, which is you aren't saving 10 shots a round (which isn't close to realistic for anyone) by being "smarter" - you save 10 shots a round by being a better at ball striking, short game, putting and sure, course management and whatever you think mental game is.  

 

Like mentioned above, I'll hit shots that would take a miracle to pull off mostly because I play a lot and I'll be playing tomorrow and I don't play real competitions, so why not.  Having said that, it doesn't occur every round or maybe even once every 5 rounds.  I'm usually living at 5-6 for handicap - I miss greens, I miss fairways - but missing a green is almost always execution it's not "dumb" - and I don't magically hit a significant number of more greens because I remember to judge the wind better - everyone messes up something like that, even pros, but it's not that significant - I miss greens because my swing isn't as consistent/solid in general as a better player and I hit more than players of higher handicaps because my swing is more consistent/solid than theirs are (in general). 

 

 

 

 

 

Bad decisions are a contributing factor to our handicap. Bad shot execution is also.

[taskerc]

I don’t put shot execution in this “dumb shot” category. Same as “sh!t happens”. Dumb shots, for me, are either bad planning or refusal to “take the Medicine”.  I guess I’m impacted by 5 strokes a round. And as I’ve improved, it feels like dumb shots count even more. When I was a 20 hdcp, dumb shots actually got mixed in with the ability to sometimes actually got a good shot or four. But when I got down to 10 hdcp, the dumb shots stick out even more so - the margin of error gets microscopic as our skills and scoring improves. My goal for this year is to suck it up, take the Medicine where my usual dumb shot attempts chance of success is less than 90%. The most infuriating thing for me is to make the decision to play it safe, and then totally poop the bed on the safe shot. For me it seems like the “easy shot” to right the ship is  also a con job we play on ourselves- like trying to hit a low chip out of the trees 50-60 yards and then catching the teeny weeny lowest branch - dumb dumb dumb. Should have putted it out to the fairway those times 🤣🤣

 

love this thread - I think it is the main reason why we don’t score better 

Edited April 6 by taskerc
Typo city

[Mike_C]

On 4/5/2025 at 3:36 PM, ChaosTheory said:

 Bad shots bother me very little.  Bad decisions bother me much more.

 

My typical ones are mis-club due to wind, not appreciating the risk on some green side shots, not protecting bogey once I’m in trouble, and shooting for front pins on our target golf greens.

 

I am reevaluating my ideas about reasonable places to miss greens.

This is me more or less. I've been having  problems more than usual this year with  wind.  Bad decisions really irritate me, missing on the wrong side of the pin is one that is typical.   Short siding yourself that leaves you with  a chip that you will have trouble getting inside 10 feet vs aiming 30 feet the other side and having a pretty straight forward uphill 2 putt for par with a chance to still make a long birdie putt is the classic example.

Edited April 7 by Mike_C

[DJDJ]

I think the majority of people that think decision making isn’t costing them strokes are either lying or delusional 

[J_Tizzle]

Bad decisions usually 3-4 strokes is my guess.  Like taking wildly aggressive lines on approach shots, which lead to short sided chip, or trying to be too aggressive on a par 5 with my 2nd and putting myself in jail or costing me a penalty stroke, or the dreaded 3 putt.

 

Like others have said, bad decisions bug me much more vs a bad swing.

[Mike_C]

I will say I am better than I used to be with the "hero" shot from the trees. I will now and then take a chance if there is a reasonable possibility I can get a ball on or just off of the green from the trees.   But if it is to just get it to 75 yards short of the green and I have a straight out simple chip back to the fairway that will be inside of 175 yards, I will almost always chip out sideways.  My logic is I am really no better from 75-50 yards out than I am from 150ish, not ever worth it for my game. 

[J_Tizzle]

24 minutes ago, Mike_C said:

I will say I am better than I used to be with the "hero" shot from the trees. I will now and then take a chance if there is a reasonable possibility I can get a ball on or just off of the green from the trees.   But if it is to just get it to 75 yards short of the green and I have a straight out simple chip back to the fairway that will be inside of 175 yards, I will almost always chip out sideways.  My logic is I am really no better from 75-50 yards out than I am from 150ish, not ever worth it for my game. 

 

And for me, my biggest mistakes come from pushing on a par 5 trying to get close/on in 2, or taking dead aim at a par 3 flag.  I don't get to play enough golf to miss the opportunity to get a ball at a flag on a par 3, lol.  

[JoeSchmoe]

5-10 shots for sure.  Mainly bad club selection.

The rest is due to lack of ability.

 

For example:

Dogleg right.  I definitely don't want to leave it short of the turn on the right side of the fairway or in the rough.  But I do.  So I have the trees blocking my approach now.

DUMB golf? No, my plan was stay away from that area but I stink.  

[knock it close]

You're not losing 10 shots cause youre dumb, youre losing 10 shots because youre bad

[Foxx]

3 hours ago, knock it close said:

You're not losing 10 shots cause youre dumb, youre losing 10 shots because youre bad

 

I'd say both. Making 10 bad decisions a game, probably equates to around 5 lost shots. Making the bad decisions doesn't necessarily mean I would have pulled off the right decision any better, but the bad decision gave me a far less chance to succeed with the shot.

 

Anyone who thinks bad decisions don't cost shots are kidding themselves. That's partly why pros have caddies.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Foxx

[J_Tizzle]

40 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

I'd say both. Making 10 bad decisions a game, probably equates to around 5 lost shots. Making the bad decisions doesn't necessarily mean I would have pulled off the right decision any better, but the bad decision gave me a far less chance to succeed with the shot.

 

Anyone who thinks bad decisions don't cost shots are kidding themselves. That's partly why pros have caddies.

 

 

 

I'd agree honestly, so lets say a 10ish handicap, so you have lets say 3 3-putts, where 2 of them were just lack of focus (which I'd consider a bad decision), then a couple of bad decisions to hit shots that are not your "standard shot" or playing to aggressively for your normal shot.  It'll add up faster than you think.  Playing a club to get at a back pin and hitting it long, trying to get too cute to hit a short sided chip.  the difference between an avg 85 shooter and sub 80 shooter is decisions, not skill.

[AtomicJoe]

On 4/3/2025 at 4:26 AM, Foxx said:

Trying to play miracle shots

 

Dude if you don’t try to play those miracle shots how do you know you can’t do them? 😂

[Foxx]

2 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

I'd agree honestly, so lets say a 10ish handicap, so you have lets say 3 3-putts, where 2 of them were just lack of focus (which I'd consider a bad decision), then a couple of bad decisions to hit shots that are not your "standard shot" or playing to aggressively for your normal shot.  It'll add up faster than you think.  Playing a club to get at a back pin and hitting it long, trying to get too cute to hit a short sided chip.  the difference between an avg 85 shooter and sub 80 shooter is decisions, not skill.

 

Yes. My standard 80 would be a 75 if I didn't make a dumb decision on almost every hole 😅.

[J_Tizzle]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Yes. My standard 80 would be a 75 if I didn't make a dumb decision on almost every hole 😅.

 

I have a friend who picked up golf maybe 6-7 years ago and would shoot very liberal 110+ scores.  He was playing with me (scratchish) and my brother (+2-+3) and he said the thing that helped him the most was learning how to think his way around a course playing with us vs figuring it out for himself.  He's shot several legit sub 80 rounds since then.  

 

The best golf is the most boring golf, I'll stand behind that approach.  

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

I have a friend who picked up golf maybe 6-7 years ago and would shoot very liberal 110+ scores.  He was playing with me (scratchish) and my brother (+2-+3) and he said the thing that helped him the most was learning how to think his way around a course playing with us vs figuring it out for himself.  He's shot several legit sub 80 rounds since then.  

 

The best golf is the most boring golf, I'll stand behind that approach.  

 

Couldn't agree more on this.

A lot of golfers get swing lessons which is necessary no doubt, but lessons on course management is largely ignored.

[LBB]

4 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I'd say both. Making 10 bad decisions a game, probably equates to around 5 lost shots. Making the bad decisions doesn't necessarily mean I would have pulled off the right decision any better, but the bad decision gave me a far less chance to succeed with the shot.

 

Anyone who thinks bad decisions don't cost shots are kidding themselves. That's partly why pros have caddies.

 

 

 

Course management, shot selection, and club selection are skills that's learned, refined, practiced, and ultimately executed on course by good golfers based on tons of experience.  Golfers that are stronger in this skill will have more shots that tend to lean towards better scores on the card over the course of many shots.  

 

Because golf is not a reactionary sport like basketball, football, tennis, etc., you basically have more than enough time to commit to the shot that gives you the best probability to score.  So if in the time you are allowed, you end up making what you consider a "bad decision", or selecting a shot that does not give you the best overall probability to score...you may say that it's a bad decision that's avoidable.  I'd argue the decision (not necessarily the result of the bad shot) is not really avoidable because you aren't skilled enough at processing available information and committing to your shot consistently.  And I agree that's why pros pay for really good caddies who know the golfers game and limitations.

 

Now...golfers might say that over the course of a round, sometimes they have a lapse in concentration that leads to a bad shot.  Where they didn't take certain things into consideration and it resulted in a bad decision.  But if that's the case, that golfer also need to be real with themselves and also discount any of the good shots where the same level of concentration was applied.  Due to the same lack of concentration, those should also be deemed bad decisions...just bad decisions that lead to good shots.  Hindsight is always 20/20, and most golfers are results oriented and cherry pick what shots they choose to look back on and think...what if. 

 

The better approach is to be real with yourself that your overall mental approach to your game is weaker than you'd like, and you need to put in the time, effort, and commitment to be better at it overall for all shots.  Most of us (myself included) are not willing to put in that type of effort to get better at the mental game.  And that's okay.  Just don't blame yourself too much...because you suck at it...LOL.

 

 

Edited April 8 by LBB

[golferdude54]

Judgment. Execution. Luck. That’s golf.

[mshills]

A really dumb decision doesn’t happen very often. Maybe once every couple rounds, if that. Enough experience playing and especially caddying that I’m not prone to the bonehead decision, which is very different than the bonehead shot. Those I have plenty of, as does everyone who doesn’t make a living playing golf. 
 

Every 18 cap thinks if he only removed the bad decisions he would shoot 75. Ok great, if it’s not that hard go do it then!

[Hawkeye77]

15 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I'd say both. Making 10 bad decisions a game, probably equates to around 5 lost shots. Making the bad decisions doesn't necessarily mean I would have pulled off the right decision any better, but the bad decision gave me a far less chance to succeed with the shot.

 

Anyone who thinks bad decisions don't cost shots are kidding themselves. That's partly why pros have caddies.

 

 

 

You started all this claiming those 10 dumb decisions were costing you 10 shots every round, now it's 5.

 

Of course, people think bad decisions cost them shots, nobody has suggested otherwise.

 

You shoot around 80 (you haven't indicated your actual index) for a lot of reasons, but a lot more to do with your ability vs. decision making.  

 

Get better at all parts of your game, including thought process, and you'll get better, if that's a goal.

 

 

[otto6457]

Boring golf is best golf if you care about a score.

 

Risky golf is best golf if you want to have fun.

 

The hard part of golf is that as you get better, you have the ability to pull off more risky shots.  But taking on risky shots is going to hurt your score more often than help your score.

 

Tiger figured it out.  Aggressive shots to his target.  Not necessarily pins.  He picked better targets than most players and had the shot dispersion that got him closer to those targets more often.

 

Then he was the best putter on the planet.

 

Biggest thing I've gained from DECADE:  Keep a mental score card along side your usual score card:

 

On a par three your perfect score is 3.  On a par 4, a 4, par 5, a 5.  Every shot is scored based upon two things.

 

1. Did I pick the correct target for this shot, in these conditions?

2. Did I commit 100% to THAT shot, that club, that decision?

 

No player will score 100%  Even Tiger in his prime wouldn't claim he ever had a perfect mental score.  95% is world class. That means those 2 foot slaps for double need the same commitment.

 

That's all you can do. Once the club makes contact with the ball, you are done.  The results can be effected by bad swings, bad luck, or bad decisions.  

 

Go find it and repeat the process for every hole.  Check your mental score card.  If you did those two things on EVERY shot, you scored as well as you possibly could, regardless of what your stroke score is.  

 

Then deconstruct the round.  Where are you weak?  Full swing, short game, putting, decision making, mental errors?

 

Make a plan. Go to work.  Get better.  

 

Or, just play golf and have as much fun as you can, doing exactly what you want to do.  

 

That's why golf is great.

[RichieHunt]

I don't think that is as much 'dumb golf' as things like:

Not taking enough club on approach shots
Hitting driver when you should lay-up
Laying up when you should hit driver
Laying up way too far back in order to get a yardage number you like
Not favoring the high side on putts from 15+ feet that are downhill or sidehill
Aiming at flags that can easily short side yourself.  
Chipping when it's very feasible to putt the ball.



RH

[Foxx]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

You started all this claiming those 10 dumb decisions were costing you 10 shots every round, now it's 5.

 

Of course, people think bad decisions cost them shots, nobody has suggested otherwise.

 

You shoot around 80 (you haven't indicated your actual index) for a lot of reasons, but a lot more to do with your ability vs. decision making.  

 

Get better at all parts of your game, including thought process, and you'll get better, if that's a goal.

 

 

 

Cheer up Charlie, and just tell us all how many shots you lose to dumb decisions. 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Foxx

[Hawkeye77]

20 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Cheer up Charlie, and just tell us all how many shots you lose to dumb decisions. 

 

 

 

Really?

 

I've already given context for my own game above. 

 

You get better however it works for you.
 

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Really?

 

I've already given context for my own game above. 

 

You get better however it works for you.
 

 

You know how it works….some need this image thrown at them.

 

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You know how it works….some need this image thrown at them.

 

 

And what truth is that brother?

I'm pretty sure I'm aware both bad decisions and bad execution contribute to lost shots.

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

And what truth is that brother?

I'm pretty sure I'm aware both bad decisions and bad execution contribute to lost shots.

Yes they do….but it’s the execution more than the dumbness and it’s not costing you ten shots if you’re averaging 80.

 

Trick is to be totally honest with yourself about your game.  Hitting, for example, 7 irons on the range.  How many REALLY would have been within let’s say 30-40 feet out of ten?  Picture a green with a tucked pin and hit aggressive shots and safe shots.  As a guy shooting 80’s you’re likely not hitting more than 6 or so really good 7 irons out of 10.  
What makes you think you’d do better out on the course?

 

Yes, it’s human nature, or golfer’s nature, to feel you just threw away a number of shots in every round. And we all do it.   It you need to be honest with yourself and realize that most of those are just the type of poor execution that is expected from a guy shooting 75-85.

[Foxx]

8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yes they do….but it’s the execution more than the dumbness and it’s not costing you ten shots if you’re averaging 80.

 

Trick is to be totally honest with yourself about your game.  Hitting, for example, 7 irons on the range.  How many REALLY would have been within let’s say 30-40 feet out of ten?  Picture a green with a tucked pin and hit aggressive shots and safe shots.  As a guy shooting 80’s you’re likely not hitting more than 6 or so really good 7 irons out of 10.  
What makes you think you’d do better out on the course?

 

Yes, it’s human nature, or golfer’s nature, to feel you just threw away a number of shots in every round. And we all do it.   It you need to be honest with yourself and realize that most of those are just the type of poor execution that is expected from a guy shooting 75-85.

 

Keep up. I stated in later posts - after discussing - 10 bad decisions probably only equate to something around 5 lost shots.

Maybe less, but we definitely lose shots from bad decisions.

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Foxx

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Keep up. I stated in later posts - after discussing - 10 bad decisions equate to something around 5 lost shots.

5 or 10 my point would be the same.  You’re not going to start averaging 75 instead of 80 with all good decisions.

Edited April 8 by Shilgy