Driver has too steep of descend angle

[BROD3]

This has probably already been talked about in here before but wanted to give insight on how much Driver doesn't get too much roll out and the descend angle is too steep. I am hovering around a 5 handicap. My current driver setup is a Qi10 9 Degree Driver with a Ventus Black 6x. I usually carry the ball around 280-290 (First couple rounds this year have felt more distance gained but my misses are both ways which I do not like. When I am hitting it well it feels like my ball flight is straight ). The problem I was seeing last year was the ball not getting too much roll out on drives. My drives typically go pretty high and I have been working on that. I use Titleist Left Dash as well. Some things I have thought about doing.

 

- Playing with ball position and tee height

- Moving into TX Flex Shaft

- Tipping my Ventus Black Shaft

- I was in a 8 degree driver before it broke and only 9 was available

 

Any info would help!!

 

[gdb99]

Where on the face are you hitting the ball?

[gdb99]

 

[Howard_Jones]

14 hours ago, BROD3 said:

This has probably already been talked about in here before but wanted to give insight on how much Driver doesn't get too much roll out and the descend angle is too steep. I am hovering around a 5 handicap. My current driver setup is a Qi10 9 Degree Driver with a Ventus Black 6x. I usually carry the ball around 280-290 (First couple rounds this year have felt more distance gained but my misses are both ways which I do not like. When I am hitting it well it feels like my ball flight is straight ). The problem I was seeing last year was the ball not getting too much roll out on drives. My drives typically go pretty high and I have been working on that. I use Titleist Left Dash as well. Some things I have thought about doing.

 

- Playing with ball position and tee height

- Moving into TX Flex Shaft

- Tipping my Ventus Black Shaft

- I was in a 8 degree driver before it broke and only 9 was available

 

Any info would help!!

 

Whats is your descent angle? Do you have a LM report?

[SAM_PGA]

16 hours ago, BROD3 said:

This has probably already been talked about in here before but wanted to give insight on how much Driver doesn't get too much roll out and the descend angle is too steep. I am hovering around a 5 handicap. My current driver setup is a Qi10 9 Degree Driver with a Ventus Black 6x. I usually carry the ball around 280-290 (First couple rounds this year have felt more distance gained but my misses are both ways which I do not like. When I am hitting it well it feels like my ball flight is straight ). The problem I was seeing last year was the ball not getting too much roll out on drives. My drives typically go pretty high and I have been working on that. I use Titleist Left Dash as well. Some things I have thought about doing.

 

- Playing with ball position and tee height

- Moving into TX Flex Shaft

- Tipping my Ventus Black Shaft

- I was in a 8 degree driver before it broke and only 9 was available

 

Any info would help!!

 

If you want help in determining if you’ve maxed out your carry or have room for more roll… we need launch conditions from a reliable LM.  If you have club head delivery numbers, that would be a bonus for everyone to evaluate.  

 

Secondarily, where are you located?  Typical course conditions firm or soft?  Lots to think about and what ball flight is best for you. 

[BROD3]

On 4/3/2025 at 4:42 PM, gdb99 said:

Where on the face are you hitting the ball?

Slightly on the toe I’ve been noticing 

[BROD3]

On 4/4/2025 at 7:12 AM, SAM_PGA said:

If you want help in determining if you’ve maxed out your carry or have room for more roll… we need launch conditions from a reliable LM.  If you have club head delivery numbers, that would be a bonus for everyone to evaluate.  

 

Secondarily, where are you located?  Typical course conditions firm or soft?  Lots to think about and what ball flight is best for you. 

Going to simulator on Monday/Tuesday and will hit a few drives and will send the numbers. In the Midwest so conditions can play a little softer 

[SAM_PGA]

9 hours ago, BROD3 said:

Going to simulator on Monday/Tuesday and will hit a few drives and will send the numbers. In the Midwest so conditions can play a little softer 

Based on soft conditions, you do want to maximize carry for sure.  You’d get the roll out in firm conditions even with maximizing carry. 

[Howard_Jones]

18 hours ago, BROD3 said:

Going to simulator on Monday/Tuesday and will hit a few drives and will send the numbers. In the Midwest so conditions can play a little softer 

 

Pay strict attention to impact location trends, not only the numbers.

 

For descent angle, we can use 142.5 Rpm = 1.0 on descent.

 

Vertical gear effects is the strongest correction factor for spin, where spin values drops average with 240 rpm for each 1/8" we move impact higher on the face.

 

Your "steep descent" (we still dont know the number on), is either due to a very high dynamic loft, and or in combination with a impact too low on the face who generate spin we dont want or need.

 

if your impact trends show you are below the centerline of the face, 3/8" higher will give you about 1.0 higher launch, 720 lower spin and descent will be reduced with about 5.0

 

So, pay strict attention to your impact trends, since only a slight movement of it, can turn this numbers upside down.

[BROD3]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Pay strict attention to impact location trends, not only the numbers.

 

For descent angle, we can use 142.5 Rpm = 1.0 on descent.

 

Vertical gear effects is the strongest correction factor for spin, where spin values drops average with 240 rpm for each 1/8" we move impact higher on the face.

 

Your "steep descent" (we still dont know the number on), is either due to a very high dynamic loft, and or in combination with a impact too low on the face who generate spin we dont want or need.

 

if your impact trends show you are below the centerline of the face, 3/8" higher will give you about 1.0 higher launch, 720 lower spin and descent will be reduced with about 5.0

 

So, pay strict attention to your impact trends, since only a slight movement of it, can turn this numbers upside down.

Really insightful post and makes me look at a little differently. Eager to hit some drives now!

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, BROD3 said:

Really insightful post and makes me look at a little differently. Eager to hit some drives now!

If you are not familiar with my DIY driver tune up, its way more info there, to help anyone (without tools or pre-knowledge about fitting), to get the max out of the club they got. Many thousands of players have used it with huge improvements.

Keep us posted, and ask for help if something is unclear.
 

 

Edited April 6 by Howard_Jones

[BROD3]

On 4/6/2025 at 11:31 AM, Howard_Jones said:

If you are not familiar with my DIY driver tune up, its way more info there, to help anyone (without tools or pre-knowledge about fitting), to get the max out of the club they got. Many thousands of players have used it with huge improvements.

Keep us posted, and ask for help if something is unclear.
 

 

 

[BROD3]

Just now, BROD3 said:

 

Some of my drives for more context 

[Howard_Jones]

SKYTRACK is no good, and the "optimal range" suggested for descent is far out...

Your club speed range has 40-42 as optimum descent when maximized CARRY is wanted.

Only if you try to optimize to max TOTAL, numbers below is relevant.
32-35 as descent is about optimum for Carry for a player with about 90-95 mph, but your ball speed will bring the ball much higher, and thats why descent becomes steeper by nature.

i dont trust the return values from Skytrack, and if we could, your smash factor is really where you loose something, and tell us that lots of gear effects comes to play since impact is to far of COG.
Its most likely those (Vertical) gear effects who causes higher spin values that wanted, and thats why i said you must pay attention to where on the face you make impact, and try to improve that.

Spin levels below 2700 is all good at your club speed, so shot number 2 is good, except smash factor who should be 1.48 or higher.

Play around with tee height and ball position, and focus 100% on impact position, do NOT try to hit up in the ball (positive AOA), that often leads to a impact low on the face who boost spin.

Flightscope is NOT that generous on distance (as Skytrack), so i used 120 club speed x 1.5 as smash = 180 ball speed with a few different launch and spin values, and this is the area you should be, and this numbers is more realistic that those from Skytrack.

https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

Edited April 8 by Howard_Jones

[BROD3]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

SKYTRACK is no good, and the "optimal range" suggested for descent is far out...

Your club speed range has 40-42 as optimum descent when maximized CARRY is wanted.

Only if you try to optimize to max TOTAL, numbers below is relevant.
32-35 as descent is about optimum for Carry for a player with about 90-95 mph, but your ball speed will bring the ball much higher, and thats why descent becomes steeper by nature.

i dont trust the return values from Skytrack, and if we could, your smash factor is really where you loose something, and tell us that lots of gear effects comes to play since impact is to far of COG.
Its most likely those (Vertical) gear effects who causes higher spin values that wanted, and thats why i said you must pay attention to where on the face you make impact, and try to improve that.

Spin levels below 2700 is all good at your club speed, so shot number 2 is good, except smash factor who should be 1.48 or higher.

Play around with tee height and ball position, and focus 100% on impact position, do NOT try to hit up in the ball (positive AOA), that often leads to a impact low on the face who boost spin.

Flightscope is NOT that generous on distance (as Skytrack), so i used 120 club speed x 1.5 as smash = 180 ball speed with a few different launch and spin values, and this is the area you should be, and this numbers is more realistic that those from Skytrack.

https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

This is great stuff. For the next couple range sessions/ and playing I will focus on just impact and tinkering with ball position and tee height. One of my problems on the course I’m having is inconsistent with exactly where my ball is going. When I step up to the tee I line up basically straight because I don’t know if the ball is going left or right and if I hit it good it usually goes pretty straight.

 

feel like that correlates with impact which you highlighted the importance of. Any suggestions with that?

[Howard_Jones]

42 minutes ago, BROD3 said:

This is great stuff. For the next couple range sessions/ and playing I will focus on just impact and tinkering with ball position and tee height. One of my problems on the course I’m having is inconsistent with exactly where my ball is going. When I step up to the tee I line up basically straight because I don’t know if the ball is going left or right and if I hit it good it usually goes pretty straight.

 

feel like that correlates with impact which you highlighted the importance of. Any suggestions with that?

 

Read the DIY driver tune up, and you will make it. Direction is a combo of path, face angle, and horizontal gear effects.

 

When the clubs Basic specs is set right, issues like that ofte disapers, if not they will be easier to fix, since we eliminere gear effects from impact too far of COG.

 

 

[LongNwrong27]

12 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

SKYTRACK is no good, and the "optimal range" suggested for descent is far out...

Your club speed range has 40-42 as optimum descent when maximized CARRY is wanted.

Only if you try to optimize to max TOTAL, numbers below is relevant.
32-35 as descent is about optimum for Carry for a player with about 90-95 mph, but your ball speed will bring the ball much higher, and thats why descent becomes steeper by nature.

i dont trust the return values from Skytrack, and if we could, your smash factor is really where you loose something, and tell us that lots of gear effects comes to play since impact is to far of COG.
Its most likely those (Vertical) gear effects who causes higher spin values that wanted, and thats why i said you must pay attention to where on the face you make impact, and try to improve that.

Spin levels below 2700 is all good at your club speed, so shot number 2 is good, except smash factor who should be 1.48 or higher.

Play around with tee height and ball position, and focus 100% on impact position, do NOT try to hit up in the ball (positive AOA), that often leads to a impact low on the face who boost spin.

Flightscope is NOT that generous on distance (as Skytrack), so i used 120 club speed x 1.5 as smash = 180 ball speed with a few different launch and spin values, and this is the area you should be, and this numbers is more realistic that those from Skytrack.

https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

If you don’t trust skytrak then the smash factor isn’t to be trusted bc clearly it could just misread the CHS or BS and throw off the calculation, making us think OP is mishitting it when they may not be. A 1.39 smash would be a terrible terrible mishit for a 5 handicap. 
 

I doubt OP is hitting it off the bottom of the face and launching it at 14-16*. They are launching it too high with high ish spin, they are most likely adding loft. 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, LongNwrong27 said:

If you don’t trust skytrak then the smash factor isn’t to be trusted bc clearly it could just misread the CHS or BS and throw off the calculation, making us think OP is mishitting it when they may not be. A 1.39 smash would be a terrible terrible mishit for a 5 handicap. 
 

I doubt OP is hitting it off the bottom of the face and launching it at 14-16*. They are launching it too high with high ish spin, they are most likely adding loft. 

 

Yes it looks like high dynamic loft, but not enough to explain the highest spin Value of almost 4000 rpm, so at least that shots had a impact spot below the centerline of the face. Smash vary from 1.39 to 1.46 and can be improved

 

Its the distance values i dont trust here, its too high with the ballspeed, launch and spin we see here.

 

[SAM_PGA]

On 4/7/2025 at 4:32 PM, BROD3 said:

Some of my drives for more context 

Take those numbers and run.  Don’t look back!

 

You can take the chance and go down the “rabbit hole” to find more yards and you’re likely to go backwards with optimum numbers… just saying.  Remember the term “paralysis by analysis”?  You’re on the border IMHO.  Is there room for perfection… sure there is.  But with what you have right now, people would pay a lot of money to see those numbers!  

 

Just go play and get the ball in the hole as fast as you can!

[LongNwrong27]

easiest thing to do would just be loft head down 1* , reduce launch a touch less than 1 degree and knock spin down a few hundred rpm. Then work on hitting it in center of face. 

[LongNwrong27]

18 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Yes it looks like high dynamic loft, but not enough to explain the highest spin Value of almost 4000 rpm, so at least that shots had a impact spot below the centerline of the face. Smash vary from 1.39 to 1.46 and can be improved

 

Its the distance values i dont trust here, its too high with the ballspeed, launch and spin we see here.

 

I don’t know exactly how skytrak measures but on foresight launch monitors you will rarely see above 1.45 smash due to how the CHS is measured. So I don’t really put much stock in how non-trackman monitors display smash. Since it’s a calculation it’s obviously prone to errors in measuring both CHS and BS 

[Stuart_G]

20 hours ago, LongNwrong27 said:

Since it’s a calculation it’s obviously prone to errors in measuring both CHS and BS 

 

FWIW, the difference has nothing to do with accuracy of the measurements or errors in the calculation.  Rather it's about different conventions for 1) what part of the head is used to get the measurement and 2) what time (relative to impact) the measurement is taken.  There is no right or wrong in those conventions - just different perspectives.

[LongNwrong27]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

FWIW, the difference has nothing to do with accuracy of the measurements or errors in the calculation.  Rather it's about different conventions for 1) what part of the head is used to get the measurement and 2) what time (relative to impact) the measurement is taken.  There is no right or wrong in those conventions - just different perspectives.

I’m not saying it does the division wrong but thank you for restating the exact same thing I said. It’s erroneous if you consider TM 1.5 the gold standard which is what most use. And since there is wide variation in yes how certain monitors measure CHS in particular there is obviously going to be immense variation in the results of a division of ball speed by club head speed, which could then be compounded by slight differences in how they measure ball speed or their inherent accuracy. 

Edited April 10 by LongNwrong27

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, LongNwrong27 said:

It’s erroneous if you consider TM 1.5 the gold standard which is what most use.

 

But TM can commonly go over 1.5 - so IMO the error is thinking that its any kind of standard - much less a gold standard.

 

They are just different tools and any user just needs to know how to properly understand and use the tool they've chosen to use.  Neither one is better than the other.

 

Now if you have a preference for one over the other, that's fine.   I personally prefer the TM/Flightscope version for club head speed simply since it's not dependent on face impact location the way it is with foresight.  So it's a slightly more consistent metric for evaluating the swing.   But if you're interested in more the efficiency of the impact, foresight is probably slightly closer to reality.

 

Edited April 10 by Stuart_G