Need some help on shaft choice.

deadsolid...shank · April 4

I know no one can really answer, but since demoing these seems very unlikely, I’ll have to go with “best guess”.

Im getting ready to order a set of Mizuno 925’s. I love the black heads and want the black shafts to match. I had originally planned on the blackout LZ 5.5’s since that is what in my JPX 900 Forged. I’ve played them for the last seven years and been really happy with them. However as we move into the season, I’m noticing some distance loss, a half to full club. And I figure it’s not going to get any better as I get older (62 this summer) so I thought I’d consider the graphite options they offer.

Recoil Dart or MMT are the two options. For reference, I guessing I’m around or just under 100 with the driver with what I feel is a fairly smooth transition.

I’ve researched what I can, which hasn’t done much but confuse me. Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.

gdb99 · April 4

2 hours ago, deadsolid...shank said:

I know no one can really answer, but since demoing these seems very unlikely, I’ll have to go with “best guess”.

Im getting ready to order a set of Mizuno 925’s. I love the black heads and want the black shafts to match. I had originally planned on the blackout LZ 5.5’s since that is what in my JPX 900 Forged. I’ve played them for the last seven years and been really happy with them. However as we move into the season, I’m noticing some distance loss, a half to full club. And I figure it’s not going to get any better as I get older (62 this summer) so I thought I’d consider the graphite options they offer.

Recoil Dart or MMT are the two options. For reference, I guessing I’m around or just under 100 with the driver with what I feel is a fairly smooth transition.

I’ve researched what I can, which hasn’t done much but confuse me. Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.

Since you can’t demo, do you want something lighter?
If that’s the case, I would pick a shaft that is slightly lighter than what you are used to. You don’t want to drop too drastically.

deadsolid...shank · April 4

5 hours ago, gdb99 said:

Since you can’t demo, do you want something lighter?
If that’s the case, I would pick a shaft that is slightly lighter than what you are used to. You don’t want to drop too drastically.

I’m really kind of winging it right now. And looking for down the road, since whatever I buy I’ll probably be using for quite a while. Which is why I’m thinking of the graphite. And lighter makes sense to me. But that’s kind of where I get lost. The MMTs offered are I believe 85g and I think the Dart is 90. Both quite a bit different.

I guess maybe what I’m trying to ascertain is which option will be the least dramatically different from the LZs. I know is probably an unanswerable question. Just trying to make the best guess possible. Thanks.

gdb99 · April 4

There is a website, Golf Shaft Review, that could give you bend profiles of these shafts. I haven’t renewed my subscription, it’s maybe $15 for the year. That could help you with which shaft has a similar bend profile.

It looks like all 3 shafts are mid flight.

With weight, you could try adding a strip of lead tape down the backside of the shaft to bring the weight up, if you don’t like the feeling of a lighter shaft.

If you have lost almost a club’s distance with your irons, you might really like the lighter shafts.

CTG77 · April 4

The MMT at 105S will feel stiffer than the LZ 5.5 by a lot. If you went down to the 85S, you'd probably get a similar feel, but you're risking having swingweight issues. There are plenty of places that have demo sets of these clubs with which you can get fitted...not to mention I've already seen some used sets on the rack at PGA Superstore when walking through there.

CTG77 · April 4

All credits for the images below go to Golf Shaft Reviews, of which I am a current paid member:

The MMT is below:

The LZ is below:

The Dart is below:

It appears the Dart and MMT are fairly close to each other in EI profile, but at closer inspection, the 80S Dart and 85S MMT aren't very close in EI Area, Tip / Butt ratio, Tip Torque, etc.

It's probably an upcharge shaft, but maybe consider the SteelFiber i95. It's not far off in EI profile from the LZ 5.5 and If you went with the R model, it might work for you.

However, you really only have 2 viable options here:

1. Go buy a test shaft or 5 and a test head and build some test clubs.

2. Get fit and buy the optimized clubs once fitted for those...

cfmgolf · April 4

OP - We are of similar age and yes once I hit 60 years old, there was a pretty big dropoff in numbers. I have been able to mitigate that with different clubs, shafts, etc. I am also pretty vain on new equipment and how it looks, and the stealth look of a black head with a black shaft has always been appealing, as I am on my 4th set now. As you already know the 5.5 LZ being a 115 gram shaft can slow down the swing and also be a little bit tough once you get to the last few holes and get tired. I have tried most of the graphite options in the last few years.SteelFiber, Recoil Dart, MMT, and both KBS PGI and TGI. My previous steel shafted irons were ping i525's with the PX IO which is in the 105gm range. I was quite surprised that I went from those to the MMT 70 R. As a smooth tempo swinger, the big weight reduction didn't affect me nearly as much as I thought. I also tried the MMT 80 and while the results for me were almost identical to the 70's I opted for the 70's just due to age 63 this season - I did put the 80's in my wedges though. The SF for me felt a little stout and boardy in a similar weight category, and the Dart was close to the MMT but the MMT was just a little bit better. KBS offers the black shaft also in the PGI and TGI lines - I felt the TGI was close to the MMT and the PGI close to the Dart. With PXG the MMT was a no upcharge shaft vs. the KBS so i went that route.

Hopefully you can try a few of these, as the info above concerning EI profiles is really great stuff.

deadsolid...shank · April 4

3 hours ago, CTG77 said:

All credits for the images below go to Golf Shaft Reviews, of which I am a current paid member:

The MMT is below:

The LZ is below:

The Dart is below:

It appears the Dart and MMT are fairly close to each other in EI profile, but at closer inspection, the 80S Dart and 85S MMT aren't very close in EI Area, Tip / Butt ratio, Tip Torque, etc.

It's probably an upcharge shaft, but maybe consider the SteelFiber i95. It's not far off in EI profile from the LZ 5.5 and If you went with the R model, it might work for you.

However, you really only have 2 viable options here:

1. Go buy a test shaft or 5 and a test head and build some test clubs.

2. Get fit and buy the optimized clubs once fitted for those...

Awesome stuff. Thanks CTG. I know by far the best way is to find somewhere to swing them. If I’m by myself tomorrow I’ll try and stop at PGA SS in Denver. Problem is is if the Mrs is along. Then it’s tough to make it there. But the charts will add a bunch of information to factor in.

deadsolid...shank · April 4

1 hour ago, cfmgolf said:

OP - We are of similar age and yes once I hit 60 years old, there was a pretty big dropoff in numbers. I have been able to mitigate that with different clubs, shafts, etc. I am also pretty vain on new equipment and how it looks, and the stealth look of a black head with a black shaft has always been appealing, as I am on my 4th set now. As you already know the 5.5 LZ being a 115 gram shaft can slow down the swing and also be a little bit tough once you get to the last few holes and get tired. I have tried most of the graphite options in the last few years.SteelFiber, Recoil Dart, MMT, and both KBS PGI and TGI. My previous steel shafted irons were ping i525's with the PX IO which is in the 105gm range. I was quite surprised that I went from those to the MMT 70 R. As a smooth tempo swinger, the big weight reduction didn't affect me nearly as much as I thought. I also tried the MMT 80 and while the results for me were almost identical to the 70's I opted for the 70's just due to age 63 this season - I did put the 80's in my wedges though. The SF for me felt a little stout and boardy in a similar weight category, and the Dart was close to the MMT but the MMT was just a little bit better. KBS offers the black shaft also in the PGI and TGI lines - I felt the TGI was close to the MMT and the PGI close to the Dart. With PXG the MMT was a no upcharge shaft vs. the KBS so i went that route.

Hopefully you can try a few of these, as the info above concerning EI profiles is really great stuff.

Yeah, I am a sucker for the look. Which unfortunately limits my options. Ive never gotten along well the KBS (which is probably good since its an up charge shaft!).

I’m just going to have to find some and swing them. Hopefully, like for you, the drop in weight won’t be a huge issue.

I also need to get better versed in the Ei profile stuff. I’ve never really understood what butt, mid, and tip section does for feel. Read about them a lot, just never really looked into it. I’ve basically played two iron shafts for the last 15 years. Project X 6.0 and then the LZ’s. I just switched out of my M1 driver last year because it broke (and it had a shaft chosen for the color!).

Realty appreciate the insight because it sounds like your experience is pretty similar to where I’m at. Time to go find a lighter shaft to try!

Hawkeye77 · April 4

I have no basis to compare and these may be useless but when I got fitted for my 923 forged last year I ended up with Recoil 780 ES Smac Wrap - mine are in R, I'm guessing you'd be in S which I think is just under 90g which . . . you may find too light with your speed, but no expert here.

I came to those as a long time "regular" Recoil user FWIW, MMTs and I never got on, and until the elbow issues I was in KBS Tour 90s and always liked them, but then gravitated towards the Recoils and I guess now different Recoils that work for me. So again, I've been lighter for a long time and have always been a "tweener" when it comes to shafts/swing speed. These don't have a "firm" feel (which my now compromised shoulder enjoys) but I'm actually, lol, getting fit for fun with some 925s in just under two weeks so I can experiment with some different shafts thinking maybe I'd like a little firmer feel and comparing some dispersion, so we'll see, but I have no rational reason to get new irons, haha.

deadsolid...shank · April 5

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I have no basis to compare and these may be useless but when I got fitted for my 923 forged last year I ended up with Recoil 780 ES Smac Wrap - mine are in R, I'm guessing you'd be in S which I think is just under 90g which . . . you may find too light with your speed, but no expert here.

I came to those as a long time "regular" Recoil user FWIW, MMTs and I never got on, and until the elbow issues I was in KBS Tour 90s and always liked them, but then gravitated towards the Recoils and I guess now different Recoils that work for me. So again, I've been lighter for a long time and have always been a "tweener" when it comes to shafts/swing speed. These don't have a "firm" feel (which my now compromised shoulder enjoys) but I'm actually, lol, getting fit for fun with some 925s in just under two weeks so I can experiment with some different shafts thinking maybe I'd like a little firmer feel and comparing some dispersion, so we'll see, but I have no rational reason to get new irons, haha.

My only basis for comparison is an old Callaway Epic (I think that’s the model) with a Recoil shaft in it. Most of the markings are worn off the shaft but I think it’s an F4 (I’ll have to go look tonight and see if anything is left to identify it). I’ve always liked that really well.
It’s just been so long since I’ve bought anything but old used stuff that you don’t mind too much taking a chance on. This purchase needs to be a little (or a LOT) less speculative.