Jack Nicklaus Trackman Number guesses

[mryank]

Jack was reputed to have a high fade ball flight on most of his shots. His stock yardages are below.

 

With the clubs, balls of his time and his style of swinging, what would you guess his trackman numbers were for Driver and let's say 7-iron? Ball speed, spin, launch angle, AOA, etc...

[Maine Golfer]

his club head speed was like 118 in his late 50s. I'm sure young Jack's speed was crazy good. 

 

I'd love to see general data or even my own data, on launch angles from old school woods versus new metals. I'm sure its a different cup of tea

[Hawkeye77]

You just aren't going to have enough information to make anything usable if you are trying to impute Trackman numbers off of that.  I've seen that chart since I was 10 and got a copy of his first autobiography and if you watched tourneys or replays of tourneys and so forth, you'll see him playing beyond those numbers so they are of very limited usefulness.  To me they speak more to his discipline playing golf than his actual power.

 

He won the long drive contest on Tour in 1963 with a 341 yard, 17 inch drive and there are other stories of his driving prowess when he wanted to ramp it up, even as an 18 year old he could whack it 40 yards beyond Arnie.  

 

 

 

 

[sheepdawg]

I remember Jack at Memphis in the mid 60s. The ball coming of that Tommy Armour made a sound unlike any other. They say the same about a ball off Mantle's bat.

[Choclab]

Jack was well before my day as a golfer, but young Jack was an absolute beast.  People see the withered, stooped-over Jack of today ravaged by Father Time and don't understand how strong and fast he was in his day.  He was an athlete and had those huge thighs, and instinctively knew how to use them.  Find some old film of him hitting a driver in his prime -- even though the FPS in those days was terrible. you cam still see that his speed and release is incredible.

 

As far as actual Trackman numbers, it's such an apples to oranges comparison with the equipment differences back then.  I am old enough to have hit a balata ball with a persimmon driver, and it's night and day compared to the technology in today's equipment.  So the numbers swinging a 43" steel shafted driver of course wouldn't look good, and the ball speed would look lousy especially with the crappy MacGregor balatas he used.  And another factor was that IMO those guys didn't swing balls out on every drive like they do today because the penalty for a small mis-hit with that equipment was so much greater.  Jack was always a fairway-first guy, so he didn't really uncork one unless the situation called for it.

[twidener]

I saw Jack play a few times at Southern Hills, PGA Championships and a U.S.Open. I was a caddy at the 1970 PGA Championship and when my player missed the cut I still got in for free so I went on Saturday and Sunday and most of the time I followed Jack. The 13th hole played as a par 5 for members but as a long par 4 for tournaments. The fairway had a fairly deep dip about 250 off the tee and most players hit a 3 wood off the tee, so they were able to see the green on their second shot. But that left them a 2 iron-4 wood shot to a small green. On Sunday I stood next to the 13th tee when Jack teed off. He hit driver and he carried the dip. That was a carry of at least 280 and then the roll out left him a wedge. He could usually hit it as far as he needed to. After his tee shot, he picked up his tee and looked at me and winked. In all of his instruction books and articles he always said he played a fade that would move L to R a few yards. But every time I saw him play, his fade was more of a straight ball that might move maybe 3 ft. at the most and was very high. Jack's book, The Greatest Game of All, he does mention that when he switched to a TTW shaft in his driver, he played a straight shot off the tee. I saw Hogan play a practice round at the same tournament, he withdrew after the practice round because it was too hard to walk the course, and his fade off the tee was a straight shot that at the flight's apex the ball would simply turn over about a foot to the right and fall. I watch the tour players today hit a left to right shot off the tee and it moves 70 ft. or so and they call it a fade. Back in the 60's and 70's when I played HS, college and tournament golf, we called that shot a big slice.

[MakersMarsh3]

Have a feeling Young Jack could dial up 190+bs with modern stuff

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, MakersMarsh3 said:

Have a feeling Young Jack could dial up 190+bs with modern stuff

Yes, I imagine a young Jack as somebody like Potgieter is today.

[Pnwpingi210]

Let’s just go full hyperbole.

 

Young Jack would have hit 160 speed club head speed with driver and 1.6 smash factoring, shattering the records as we know them today.

 

 

in all seriousness, he wasn’t any faster than say layers like rory or woodland it today.  
 

the new group like norgaard, potgieter, and some others all cruise on the 190s for ballspeed and can push past 200 if they want. Jack wasn’t doing that on his best day…..

[ALIF]

55 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Let’s just go full hyperbole.

 

Young Jack would have hit 160 speed club head speed with driver and 1.6 smash factoring, shattering the records as we know them today.

 

 

in all seriousness, he wasn’t any faster than say layers like rory or woodland it today.  
 

the new group like norgaard, potgieter, and some others all cruise on the 190s for ballspeed and can push past 200 if they want. Jack wasn’t doing that on his best day…..

I don’t know, Jack was a big ole boy.😂  Yeah, I don’t think Jack would’ve been as long as him, but I think relative to everybody else on tour he would’ve been that long.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, ALIF said:

I don’t know, Jack was a big ole boy.😂  Yeah, I don’t think Jack would’ve been as long as him, but I think relative to everybody else on tour he would’ve been that long.

Eh, 5’9-5’10” and probably 175-190 lbs during he’s peak years?  
 

Agree he was long relative to his peers, but the game has changed and players are faster today.  Both actually and relatively compared to previous eras.  
 

 

[PuffyC]

I have an old Nicklaus Muirfield 20th anniversary driver and with a ProV1x it’s about 11% shorter than my GT2. Not quite as hard to hit as you might think but man that head looks tiny down by the ball. I don’t have any old balatas to test with but that may be another 10% (no idea here). So if the math is right maybe he’d be around 315 with modern stuff? That would put him right where Rory is.

[Hawkeye77]

Mentioned Jack's 341 to take the long drive in the early 60s, 357 the year after.  In 2018, Bryson ----- 331.  Some ideas for relative comparison after 50+ years.

[sheepdawg]

Remember Jack drove it through the 18th green at St. Andrews in 1970. Might have been the small ball and wind aided but that was 375 yards. Thing about Jack was he was very long but he was straight too.

[Choclab]

19 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Eh, 5’9-5’10” and probably 175-190 lbs during he’s peak years?  
 

 

And how big is Rory again?

[Pnwpingi210]

12 minutes ago, Choclab said:

And how big is Rory again?

A little shorter and a little lighter - but that’s kind of the point.  Nobody calls Rory a big ol boy.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

22 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

A little shorter and a little lighter - but that’s kind of the point.  Nobody calls Rory a big ol boy.

 

 

Jack was all of 5'10" and depending on when asked, he's said 5'11" but not 5'9" and never played at 175 - when he was 210 in 1969 he said he lost 15 and then another 5 and got to 185 - some issues with math as he got older, no big deal - but he was around 185 most of his active career.  Got a little heavier years later and . . . another round of diet and fitness and took some weight off pretty quickly.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Jack was all of 5'10" and depending on when asked, he's said 5'11" but not 5'9" and never played at 175 - when he was 210 in 1969 he said he lost 15 and then another 5 and got to 185 - some issues with math as he got older, no big deal - but he was around 185 most of his active career.  Got a little heavier years later and . . . another round of diet and fitness and took some weight off pretty quickly.

5’10 and 185 is a little bigger than 5’9 and 175.  Neither are considered big ol boys.  Rory’s going to be much fitter and lower body fat/higher muscle mass percentage at that weight as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

4 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

5’10 and 185 is a little bigger than 5’9 and 175.  Neither are considered big ol boys.  Rory’s going to be much fitter and lower body fat/higher muscle mass percentage at that weight as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, not even sure what the point of all this is - Rory is fit and is a squirt, Jack was pretty fit for his era as a golfer and yes, significantly bigger than Rory and not small of stature. He was no Incredible Hulk but was no Hubert Green or Gene Littler, haha.  For his era and especially early in his career, if someone wanted to call Jack a "big ole boy" they need only look at photos or watch his Shell match with Snead from 1963 - they've got a valid description, albeit not all that important.

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Haha, not even sure what the point of all this is - Rory is fit and is a squirt, Jack was pretty fit for his era as a golfer and yes, significantly bigger than Rory and not small of stature. He was no Incredible Hulk but was no Hubert Green or Gene Littler, haha.  For his era and especially early in his career, if someone wanted to call Jack a "big ole boy" they need only look at photos or watch his Shell match with Snead from 1963 - they've got a valid description, albeit not all that important.

I don’t know either.  But as far as height and weight go 5’10 and 185 isn’t that dissimilar to 5’9 and 175, particularly when you account for lean mass differences in those two.

 

I watched the video, remastered and  in color.  He’s no bigger than a 50 yr old Sam Snead.  I guess big ol boy is all relative. 
 

My original point before we examined jacks body was Jack wasn’t swinging any faster than a Rory or the likes today, and certainly not as fast as the new batch of payers that are in the 190-195 range.  
 

Anything else’s is just a fish tale

 

[Hawkeye77]

5 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I don’t know either.  But as far as height and weight go 5’10 and 185 isn’t that dissimilar to 5’9 and 175, particularly when you account for lean mass differences in those two.

 

I watched the video, remastered and  in color.  He’s no bigger than a 50 yr old Sam Snead.  I guess big ol boy is all relative. 
 

My original point before we examined jacks body was Jack wasn’t swinging any faster than a Rory or the likes today, and certainly not as fast as the new batch of payers that are in the 190-195 range.  
 

Anything else’s is just a fish tale

 

 

Rory says he weighs 161 and no way he's 5'9" tall, lol, but whatever.  Jack hit it a long ways, Rory hits it a long ways. 

 

Moving on . . . 😉

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Rory says he weighs 161 and no way he's 5'9" tall, lol, but whatever.  Jack hit it a long ways, Rory hits it a long ways. 

 

Moving on . . . 😉

If you don’t believe what he says for his height, why do you believe what he says for his weight?  (Rhetorical - confirmation bias)

 

agree they both swing/swung fast let’s move on.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

let’s move on

Already suggested that. 

[ALIF]

I'll tell you what, I'm going to jump in my Delorean, grab my trackman and come pick you guys up. We're going to go back to 1962 and find Jack at a driving range on the PGA Tour and get his trackman numbers. Then we can settle this once and for all! Who's in??

[Old Tom Morris]

This is difficult to compare.  Jack played a shorter and much heavier driver shaft.  Doubt his club head speed was impressive compared to today's top players.  He also did not swing out of his shoes like today's players because it was more important to have center contact and for him to hit the fairway.  He was a better ball striker though.

[mocokid]

2 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

This is difficult to compare.  Jack played a shorter and much heavier driver shaft.  Doubt his club head speed was impressive compared to today's top players.  He also did not swing out of his shoes like today's players because it was more important to have center contact and for him to hit the fairway.  He was a better ball striker though.

Way different hitting small persimmon sweet spot and very spinny ball hard to control.  Control was the name of the game.  Now it's an athletic smash.  

[golferdude54]

We have video of Jack hitting driver from the 60's/70's. And also his height. We know he's taller than Rory but shorter than Cameron Champ in height at around 5'10.

 

It's how far he takes the club and his left arm back in his backswing and how quick he was able to get the club down to the ball at impact, using video frames as a speed reference . Along with producing GRF with his footwork.

 

Early to mid 1960's he was fast enough to get a 21/7 tempo with a Rory-length backswing or perhaps even longer of a backswing, same tempo as Rory who produces 185+ MPH ball speed average.

 

But his footwork with the raising the left heel in the backswing and planting it down and letting the toe spin out means he produced more GRF than Rory and also Cameron Champ, both of whom had quieter footwork than Jack.

 

The length of his backswing arc along with the fast tempo and GRF from his footwork and his height, my deduction is that he would average 190 MPH ball speed off the tee today, same as Cameron Champ. Below 185 is an insult and just plain false. He definitely throttled back down to 180-185 equivalent in the 1970's for more control.

 

Edited June 13 by golferdude54

[AdamMW]

Jack was easy 120 plus, For example, a kinematic study and using high speed film experts they estimated when bobby jones drove a green for one his videos he hit 125mph clubhead speed. Using hickory shafts. Jack was no doubt as long as that. 

[Hellstorm]

I played at a course named Lakeview in West Virginia years ago and they had a plaque in the fairway indicating where Jack hit his tee shot and it was 342 or something from the box.  It doesn't say how it got there, but that was a poke.

[Pepperturbo]

On 4/5/2025 at 7:56 AM, mryank said:

Jack was reputed to have a high fade ball flight on most of his shots. His stock yardages are below.

 

With the clubs, balls of his time and his style of swinging, what would you guess his trackman numbers were for Driver and let's say 7-iron? Ball speed, spin, launch angle, AOA, etc...

Amazing. Those numbers are basically the same as mine. Because I don't use an LM, can't imagine his LM numbers.