Housing prices are outrageous.

[Petethreeput]

12 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Really? Those are multimillionaires' retreat towns and South Dakota is well... South Dakota.

This is exactly what is happening.  Not 2025 Jackson you are thinking about, it's 1985 Jackson, it's 1980 Boulder, it's 1970's Vail... you get the idea.  Any place which historically has had vacationers is experiencing it.  It could be fishing, skiing, mountain biking, bird hunting, sight seeing, it doesn't matter.  As these places become unaffordable to anyone not in the 1% potential buyers look further afield, into MT, ID, SD, ND, etc.

 

The local economies don't support the increase in home prices.  Many of these places are having to re-write statutes in regards to police/fire fighters living in the town in which they work because they can't afford to live there anymore.  The local tax base doesn't support higher wages and therefore they can't get paid a living wage.  The Vail cop might live in Carbondale, Boulder in Longmont, Jackson?  It used to be Driggs, ID but now I suspect it's even further out.

 

 

[Nickb333]

12 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Well. With insurance claims and tracking. It’s a daily fluid deal.  Kind of like a firefighter. The procedures change.  The locations change depending on the problem type  ( in this instance it’s different cases daily ) and the workload fluctuates depending on what time of the month and year.  Codes change. Denial reasons dilated daily.  Insurance companies are the largest scam artists on earth.  This depts sole mission is to thwart these denials.  And get the practice paid.  Always a moving target. 
 

this manager is just totally out of the loop on a day to day basis.  They call it “ peeing on fires”.  She’s not present to help put out the fires.  So her employees are constantly going to my wife or other managers to find real time help.  They can message their manager. But those responses often come minutes later. Or worse. That’s not quick enough sometimes. Not to mention that her entire staff must work in house , and she has no oversight on their HR related activities. It’s just a lord of the flies free for all in this one dept.  and it happens to be the dept that is responsible for the practice getting paid.  She’s called “ the manager in name only “. 

Ah, so not insurance company personnel. Your wife works for a law firm right? 

[bladehunter]

11 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Ah, so not insurance company personnel. Your wife works for a law firm right? 

Sorry. No. Independent surgery center/daily care center. ( ophthalmic surgeons ) .  

[mshills]

21 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

This is exactly what is happening.  Not 2025 Jackson you are thinking about, it's 1985 Jackson, it's 1980 Boulder, it's 1970's Vail... you get the idea.  Any place which historically has had vacationers is experiencing it.  It could be fishing, skiing, mountain biking, bird hunting, sight seeing, it doesn't matter.  As these places become unaffordable to anyone not in the 1% potential buyers look further afield, into MT, ID, SD, ND, etc.

 

The local economies don't support the increase in home prices.  Many of these places are having to re-write statutes in regards to police/fire fighters living in the town in which they work because they can't afford to live there anymore.  The local tax base doesn't support higher wages and therefore they can't get paid a living wage.  The Vail cop might live in Carbondale, Boulder in Longmont, Jackson?  It used to be Driggs, ID but now I suspect it's even further out.

 

 

I did not know there was a run up in popularity and cost in the Dakotas, so I’ve learned something new today. 
 

This is a pattern I certainly don’t have an answer for, since it appears fueled more by mobility and not by an outside influence like PE buying up all off-campus student housing in a college town, to use one example.  

[Petethreeput]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

popularity and cost in the Dakotas

I think non-locals tend to think that way, for example, if you were to look at MT your sense would be its affordable.  Heck, there are unimproved parcels selling for $5K/ acre in some parts of the state (or less).  But the local economies can be much different.  No one wants to live there, but when you get into western MT specifically, Bozeman, Whitefish, Columbia Falls, Missoula, Big Sky, W Yellowstone, etc. are seeing the surges.  The Dakotas will be no different.

[mshills]

On 4/22/2025 at 10:15 AM, bladehunter said:

Yep.in years  past it was much less reactionary. With an old manager that retired.  The current one was under her . And widely known to be a bad replacement. Yet they promoted via seniority vs skill.  If you start in top of it.  It’s much less reactionary indeed.   But it always will be to a degree. Because the insurance companies change policy often. Always trying to dodge .

 

A good for instance is surgery pre certification.  If you don’t pre cert all , they won’t pay.  . Well they often find out that the diagnosis or reason for procedure is not acceptable, the morning of the surgery.  So it’s a race against time to get it corrected or the procedure is off for that day. Because if you do it without pre certification, you absolutely will not get paid. People have no idea how crooked the insurance business is with regards to healthcare. We’re talking a 12-20k dollar procedure , that’s warranted , covered , and being done by top docs , but might not get paid because a piece of paper is filed an hour late.  Or a diagnosis code is for “ medically necessary “ vs “ elective “ etc. 

 

Understood. Insurance and medical billing is an absolute disaster in this country. Patients suffer greatly for it. So do patient families. So do providers. It is sad. 
 

The situation you are describing is a first-line manager problem, not a PE ownership problem. Someone needs to get that fixed, but I’m preaching to the choir now, with some Captain Obvious stuff. 

[Joe85]

I inherited my parent home back 2019 and just sitting on it doing very little it went up $100k in like 6 yrs. I was shocked. Sadly though, when I bought a new, smaller dump, I also overpaid like $50k. 

 

 

It's all sort of fake - the market is just completely out of whack due to inflation. 

[MK7Golf21]

57 minutes ago, Joe85 said:

It's all sort of fake - the market is just completely out of whack due to inflation. 

yea, all it did was raise people taxes. Sure an owners house went up majorly in value but when you sell, the next house you buy also went up majorly in value so it evens out. In the end just paying more taxes. 

[Joe85]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

yea, all it did was raise people taxes. Sure an owners house went up majorly in value but when you sell, the next house you buy also went up majorly in value so it evens out. In the end just paying more taxes. 

 

 

I noticed it way more in the Cities (urban) versus rural. I see quite nice homes 3 hrs out of the major city I live in for $50k whereas in this major city dumps are now $100k. 

[mshills]

Nice homes for $50K? 😯 Man, I thought CoL was reasonably low where I live. Dang, that is really inexpensive. 
 

I live in a really high tax town. Currently it’s fine, since I have two kids in the schools. After they are both done I’ll have a different perspective and there might be a for sale sign in my yard. 

[Joe85]

4 hours ago, mshills said:

Nice homes for $50K? 😯 Man, I thought CoL was reasonably low where I live. Dang, that is really inexpensive. 
 

I live in a really high tax town. Currently it’s fine, since I have two kids in the schools. After they are both done I’ll have a different perspective and there might be a for sale sign in my yard. 

 

I mean it's all about location. This home needs some freshening but the price is dirt. But again you ain't gonna be going to any Wolves games. You are in the middle of nowhere. And oh yeah it gets really cold there in winter...

 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/121-1st-St_Clinton_MN_56225_M75953-61985

[Joe85]

On 4/26/2025 at 9:33 AM, mshills said:

Nice homes for $50K? 😯 Man, I thought CoL was reasonably low where I live. Dang, that is really inexpensive. 
 

I live in a really high tax town. Currently it’s fine, since I have two kids in the schools. After they are both done I’ll have a different perspective and there might be a for sale sign in my yard. 

I should have prefaced that comment that you and I are probably looking for very different houses 😂 

 

 

You're probably looking for a newer  5k sq ft mcmansion whereas I'm definitely content w 2k sq ft older home 😂 

[WesternRacing]

On 4/18/2025 at 7:19 PM, Nickb333 said:

So why not sell? 

 

Because my house is appreciating…and, more importantly, my wife doesn’t want to sell.  So the first part is moot either way.  If I were a single man, I’d have sold long ago and rented something smaller.  But again, I’m older and our kids are grown.  Different stage of life than many on here.

[BendGolfGal]

If you are patient, and you save (don’t eat out as much, buy used products not new, do repairs yourself, etc), real estate is a wonderful tool for investment and to create retirement funds.  The key is dont be in a hurry and find properties where someone else has to get out of the property at a lower price so that some equity is built in.    Granted, those opportunities are not as available as they were say in 2009-2012, but they are there especially when the economy starts to weaken.  We live in a wonderful golf community where we got the land for next to nothing and helped to build our first home ever (sold our farm that we bought out of a foreclosure sale) and paid for the newly built house.  We have repeated this process over the past 30 years.  We have moved a lot in doing so and the adventure of seeing and being in new places has been rewarding.

Now we live at an amazing place here in Central Oregon.  We still save, do our own repairs for ourselves and neighbors, prepare our own meals so we save money to pay for monthly membership, Golf a lot.  When we are ready to downsize or cant play golf any more, we will do the same thing by watching the market and getting out when opportune. Never give up and never stop dreaming!

[PedronNiall]

Renting certainly isn't peaches & cream. Instead of an apartment worth of things you settle in with a home worth of things in a place you might have to suddenly vamoose from because the owner sells to someone else or to PE or because they suddenly want to jack the rent up as the area experiences a new boom and a housing shortage. Even with standard happenings rent can go up year after year after year and there's nothing you can do about it but move. 

 

Beyond the peace of mind of your place being yours this year and next year and so on as long as you've managed your money well, you also get a relatively low fixed cost mortgage payment when you own. Even before all this craziness mortgages tended to be a decent bit less per square foot than renting, sometimes even when accounting for property taxes. Now it's an insane imbalance. Rent for apartments or homes that was 150% of mean mortgages in MCOL areas before 2020 and recent inflation is now approaching 300%. I don't care how much you have saved and how happy you are not to be tied to ownership, no one likes swallowing down the absurdity of swings in rental costs. How many people can absorb double or more in rent costs with almost no increase in wages without feeling it? 

 

It's a broken system that too many who had an easy time of it when a summer job paid tuition and a regular job paid a mortgage allowed to come into place once they'd gotten all the benefits they needed. It's a glaring fact many pulled the ladder up behind them.

 

A decent number of people are renting the lowest priced garbage they can so they can save a bit and relocate overseas to work remotely or retire at far higher rates than in the past because it's gotten so bad. That would eventually just repeat the cycle in foreign countries but at least they tend to set some policies in place not to allow home ownership and rental costs to both become unaffordable for most at the same time. 

 

Heck, in much of the world there are options to own apartments at a reasonable price. It's really crap to think about how bad it's gotten in the States if you aren't in at least in the top 15% of earners. If you don't have family to bail you out if something goes wrong you'd better not fk up even once. 

[MK7Golf21]

wrong post

Edited May 9 by MK7Golf21

[Mych]

On 5/9/2025 at 12:36 AM, PedronNiall said:

Renting certainly isn't peaches & cream. Instead of an apartment worth of things you settle in with a home worth of things in a place you might have to suddenly vamoose from because the owner sells to someone else or to PE or because they suddenly want to jack the rent up as the area experiences a new boom and a housing shortage. Even with standard happenings rent can go up year after year after year and there's nothing you can do about it but move. 

 

Beyond the peace of mind of your place being yours this year and next year and so on as long as you've managed your money well, you also get a relatively low fixed cost mortgage payment when you own. Even before all this craziness mortgages tended to be a decent bit less per square foot than renting, sometimes even when accounting for property taxes. Now it's an insane imbalance. Rent for apartments or homes that was 150% of mean mortgages in MCOL areas before 2020 and recent inflation is now approaching 300%. I don't care how much you have saved and how happy you are not to be tied to ownership, no one likes swallowing down the absurdity of swings in rental costs. How many people can absorb double or more in rent costs with almost no increase in wages without feeling it? 

 

It's a broken system that too many who had an easy time of it when a summer job paid tuition and a regular job paid a mortgage allowed to come into place once they'd gotten all the benefits they needed. It's a glaring fact many pulled the ladder up behind them.

 

A decent number of people are renting the lowest priced garbage they can so they can save a bit and relocate overseas to work remotely or retire at far higher rates than in the past because it's gotten so bad. That would eventually just repeat the cycle in foreign countries but at least they tend to set some policies in place not to allow home ownership and rental costs to both become unaffordable for most at the same time. 

 

Heck, in much of the world there are options to own apartments at a reasonable price. It's really crap to think about how bad it's gotten in the States if you aren't in at least in the top 15% of earners. If you don't have family to bail you out if something goes wrong you'd better not fk up even once. 

 

I agree with a lot of this. I really wish that there wasn't such a stigma on things like duplex homes, manufactured homes (single/double wide trailers), and RV living. Tiny homes started to be more accepted, but there's a need for true "ownable" homes. I often feel like I'll never truly "own" a home on a 30 year mortgage unless I push harder to pay it off in 15-18yrs, and by then what I "own" isn't really the same asset that I bought. It appreciates with the market, but in reality most properties are going to require a lot more upkeep 20+ years after purchase. I bought my first starter home when I was 24, then moved to another city and bought another starter home when I was 26. Those were probably the only 2 homes that I could have truly paid off in a reasonable amount of time. 20 years later and I'm 3 years into my current 30 year mortgage.

 

My children are 18 and 20, and I really am trying to get them to think outside of the box that they grew up in (4 br single family houses with 30yr mortgages in the suburbs). There is so much financial freedom in reaching their mid 30's with a basic home that is paid off (or close to it), it becomes a launch-pad for all of the other financial decisions that people need to make in life. 

 

Edited June 3 by Mych

[Jraallen]

On 4/26/2025 at 3:18 PM, Joe85 said:

 

I mean it's all about location. This home needs some freshening but the price is dirt. But again you ain't gonna be going to any Wolves games. You are in the middle of nowhere. And oh yeah it gets really cold there in winter...

 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/121-1st-St_Clinton_MN_56225_M75953-61985

That’s still absolutely incredible to me that you can find a house for that price. I’ve lived in Massachusetts my whole life which obviously skews my perception of real estate pricing, but there’s a plot about 5 mins down the road that’s approved for a 26’ x 38’ build.. 300k listing, assessed at 250k… and then you still need to actually build (and pay for) a house. I mean it is a fantastic commuter location to get into the city, but still…300k for a lot is well.. a lot.

 

Edit- I’m not in a rich stuffy area or anything either, it’s just the proximity to multiple major roads/highways

Edited May 19 by Jraallen

[Joe85]

2 hours ago, Jraallen said:

That’s still absolutely incredible to me that you can find a house for that price. I’ve lived in Massachusetts my whole life which obviously skews my perception of real estate pricing, but there’s a plot about 5 mins down the road that’s approved for a 26’ x 38’ build.. 300k listing, assessed at 250k… and then you still need to actually build (and pay for) a house. I mean it is a fantastic commuter location to get into the city, but still…300k for a lot is well.. a lot.

 

Edit- I’m not in a rich stuffy area or anything either, it’s just the proximity to multiple major roads/highways

East Coast near the Atlantic carries a premium maybe? 

 

 

I met a kid who became part of our crew back in the day who was from Chicago area and his parents were shocked for how much house they could get upper Midwest v. Chicago area. 

[Jraallen]

3 minutes ago, Joe85 said:

East Coast near the Atlantic carries a premium maybe? 

 

 

I met a kid who became part of our crew back in the day who was from Chicago area and his parents were shocked for how much house they could get upper Midwest v. Chicago area. 

I don’t think it’s as bad as California, but yea land and housing are particularly costly in the area.
I’m also seeing that a lot of the cheaper stuff is getting bought, updated and re sold..so the prices are going up, and at the same time the amount of smaller homes keeps goes down because they get turned into bigger/nicer homes.

[PedronNiall]

On 5/19/2025 at 2:20 PM, Mych said:

 

I agree with a lot of this. I really wish that there wasn't such a stigma on things like duplex homes, manufactured homes (single/double wide trailers), and RV living. Tiny homes started to be more accepted, but there's a need for true "ownable" homes. I often feel like I'll never truly "own" a home on a 30 year mortgage unless I push harder to pay it off in 15-18yrs, and by then what I "own" isn't really the same asset that I bought. It appreciates with the market, but in reality most properties are going to require a lot more upkeep 20+ years after purchase. I bought my first starter home when I was 23, then moved to another city and bought another starter home when I was 25. Those were probably the only 2 homes that I could have truly paid off in a reasonable amount of time. 20 years later and I'm 3 years into my current 30 year mortgage.

 

My children are 18 and 20, and I really am trying to get them to think outside of the box that they grew up in (4 br single family houses with 30yr mortgages in the suburbs). There is so much financial freedom in reaching their mid 30's with a basic home that is paid off (or close to it), it becomes a launch-pad for all of the other financial decisions that people need to make in life. 

 

 

Yep, something's gotta give. Tiny homes are doing okay, but many of the designs tend towards more of a luxury build than most can afford. Any templates like converted containers that aren't pleasing to the eye are a no go in a lot of areas for fear they'll hurt other home prices, and even better looking ones have trouble taking hold for similar reasons. 

 

There are some developments on the west coast that have full neighborhoods of easy on the eyes tiny homes on minimal lots but they're a long way from being the norm. Very few options to own apartments or condos either so the pickings will stay slim until enough people make noise about it or move away from places where it's most unsustainable. With all the farm land being sold and that will be coming up for sale over the next few years there's potential for communities focused around better ownership options to spring up, assuming PE doesn't grab most of it up. 

[Mych]

13 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Yep, something's gotta give. Tiny homes are doing okay, but many of the designs tend towards more of a luxury build than most can afford. Any templates like converted containers that aren't pleasing to the eye are a no go in a lot of areas for fear they'll hurt other home prices, and even better looking ones have trouble taking hold for similar reasons. 

 

There are some developments on the west coast that have full neighborhoods of easy on the eyes tiny homes on minimal lots but they're a long way from being the norm. Very few options to own apartments or condos either so the pickings will stay slim until enough people make noise about it or move away from places where it's most unsustainable. With all the farm land being sold and that will be coming up for sale over the next few years there's potential for communities focused around better ownership options to spring up, assuming PE doesn't grab most of it up. 

 

The people who have it figured out is the senior living communities with more shared amenities, smaller property footprints, lower maintenance costs, and a more "community" based lifestyle. Obviously, for young families they want room to grow but I think there are a lot of small families, single adults, and early-career people who could benefit from a a "senior living" type of community.

 

I see a lot of smaller, more tightly spaced homes being built but they don't seem to be any cheaper than freestanding homes. It often seems to be a way to just squeeze more houses in smaller spaces, not really making them more "livable" with better shared community resources. 

 

 

[Triple Lindy]

On 5/29/2025 at 1:46 AM, PedronNiall said:

Tiny homes are doing okay, but many of the designs tend towards more of a luxury build than most can afford.

The sheer amount of square footage in today’s homes is staggering. I realize that prices are still nuts, but it’s also an apples oranges kinda thing. Our first home was around 1200 sqft. Probably would be considerably a tiny home today. Our “forever” home, which we’re still in, is 2800, and is now in the category of starter home. We lived there comfortably with 3 kids (all grown now), while most of our neighbors moved on to much larger homes as their families grew. Our current neighbors all have young kids. I’m enjoying the “get off my lawn” stage of life.

[TiScape]

32 minutes ago, Triple Lindy said:

The sheer amount of square footage in today’s homes is staggering. I realize that prices are still nuts, but it’s also an apples oranges kinda thing. Our first home was around 1200 sqft. Probably would be considerably a tiny home today. Our “forever” home, which we’re still in, is 2800, and is now in the category of starter home. We lived there comfortably with 3 kids (all grown now), while most of our neighbors moved on to much larger homes as their families grew. Our current neighbors all have young kids. I’m enjoying the “get off my lawn” stage of life.

1200 is a small home, not a tiny home. 
These new ‘tiny homes’ are under 400 sqft. Think like…

[mshills]

1 hour ago, Triple Lindy said:

The sheer amount of square footage in today’s homes is staggering. I realize that prices are still nuts, but it’s also an apples oranges kinda thing. Our first home was around 1200 sqft. Probably would be considerably a tiny home today. Our “forever” home, which we’re still in, is 2800, and is now in the category of starter home. We lived there comfortably with 3 kids (all grown now), while most of our neighbors moved on to much larger homes as their families grew. Our current neighbors all have young kids. I’m enjoying the “get off my lawn” stage of life.

WFH being more widespread is the only factor that comes immediately to mind justifying larger home sizes. But I don’t know….we are an active family of 4 with a big dog, I have a dedicated home office, and we do lots of entertaining very comfortably in our crib. 
 

I try not to be a “back in my day” type. No one likes that guy. However, I don’t get how young families getting started just can’t possibly manage with less than 3k sqft. There is also a sense of entitlement….”we buy our starter home, we make more in appreciation than many other investments, buy a bigger home, do it again, then finally get our dream home at 40!” 🙄

 

What happened to “we bought a home we like, and that is where we live.”

 

I blame HGTV. 🤣

[Triple Lindy]

32 minutes ago, mshills said:

WFH being more widespread is the only factor that comes immediately to mind justifying larger home sizes. But I don’t know….we are an active family of 4 with a big dog, I have a dedicated home office, and we do lots of entertaining very comfortably in our crib. 
 

I try not to be a “back in my day” type. No one likes that guy. However, I don’t get how young families getting started just can’t possibly manage with less than 3k sqft. There is also a sense of entitlement….”we buy our starter home, we make more in appreciation than many other investments, buy a bigger home, do it again, then finally get our dream home at 40!” 🙄

 

What happened to “we bought a home we like, and that is where we live.”

 

I blame HGTV. 🤣

Yeah - I worked from home when we bought our current house. It has (had) a home office, that’s now a gym. There’s even a game room. And I don’t want to be the “back in my day” guy either. It’s just that I’ve recently had this discussion with my youngest and his wife, who wants to buy a 3,500 sqft home as their first home. She complains about the prices. Trying to be as diplomatic as I can (a stretch for sure), I try to let her know that maybe they should start a bit smaller. They can’t afford what she wants.

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

1200 is a small home, not a tiny home. 
These new ‘tiny homes’ are under 400 sqft. Think like…

 

Yep. Shipping container size is about the norm, though more in the 800 square foot range isn't uncommon. 

 

 

Lots like this that are nicer... but out of the affordable range and most of the time are built by those who already have money to be rented out as Airbnb sites. 

 

There are some programs that are serious about it. These are from one in Detroit that pretty much rents them to participants at cost for a few years then allows them to take ownership if they commit to the requirements during the entire time. 

 

 

Last two neighborhoods are in Cali, one for veterans. I've seen some others that are even nicer and incorporate the homes even better with some nice low maintenance areas with similar hardscaping, gardens, and hardy plants instead of grass, like the first one.

 

 

Very hard to find any that aren't backed by programs or nonprofits aimed at low income renters or vets. Going to take more concerted efforts for larger builders to get in on it as land costs are so high that these builds come at a pretty big loss in a lot of areas. Also need a change in mindset as a lot of people still want their homes to come with lots of yard and lots of space of their own rather than shared spaces. 

[mshills]

1 hour ago, Triple Lindy said:

Yeah - I worked from home when we bought our current house. It has (had) a home office, that’s now a gym. There’s even a game room. And I don’t want to be the “back in my day” guy either. It’s just that I’ve recently had this discussion with my youngest and his wife, who wants to buy a 3,500 sqft home as their first home. She complains about the prices. Trying to be as diplomatic as I can (a stretch for sure), I try to let her know that maybe they should start a bit smaller. They can’t afford what she wants.

I am almost 50 and I cannot afford what I want either. 😁

 

Glad ours accommodated a full time home office when the ‘Rona hit. That was not part of the plan and wasn’t a requirement when we looked for and bought the house. Never expected to be full time home ofc. 

 

Stand alone homes under 450 sqft aren’t going to fly on a large scale in this country no matter how much “ooh look at me” instagram exposure occurs. 

[Mych]

On 6/1/2025 at 2:06 PM, Triple Lindy said:

Yeah - I worked from home when we bought our current house. It has (had) a home office, that’s now a gym. There’s even a game room. And I don’t want to be the “back in my day” guy either. It’s just that I’ve recently had this discussion with my youngest and his wife, who wants to buy a 3,500 sqft home as their first home. She complains about the prices. Trying to be as diplomatic as I can (a stretch for sure), I try to let her know that maybe they should start a bit smaller. They can’t afford what she wants.

I told my wife that the biggest disservice we and most of our friends/neighbors did to our kids is to never allow them to see where we started. The first home my children knew was 2500 SF on a large lot in a subdivision with pools, playgrounds, an elementary school, restaurants, etc. 

 

My wife and I started in a pretty run-down 2BR apartment where the majority of our furniture came from thrift stores, yard sales, or from being the first one to see it at the dumpster when someone else moved or got evicted. We upgraded pretty quickly in our 20's and bought our first 1500sf duplex home about 4 years later by working a night job in addition to my day job (which our kids also never knew). In their mind we just finished college and immediately bought a middle class home, which is very far from reality. 

 

Having that discussion with them helped to reset their ambitions a little and let them know that finishing college isn't a golden ticket that automatically allows them to start the same life as adults that they lived growing up in our household. 

[TiScape]

2 minutes ago, Mych said:

I told my wife that the biggest disservice we and most of our friends/neighbors did to our kids is to never allow them to see where we started. The first home my children knew was 2500 SF on a large lot in a subdivision with pools, playgrounds, an elementary school, restaurants, etc. 

 

My wife and I started in a pretty run-down 2BR apartment where the majority of our furniture came from thrift stores, yard sales, or from being the first one to see it at the dumpster when someone else moved or got evicted. We upgraded pretty quickly in our 20's and bought our first 1500sf duplex home about 4 years later by working a night job in addition to my day job (which our kids also never knew). In their mind we just finished college and immediately bought a middle class home, which is very far from reality. 

 

Having that discussion with them helped to reset their ambitions a little and let them know that finishing college isn't a golden ticket that automatically allows them to start the same life as adults that they lived growing up in our household. 

No doubt. But BITD one could not even go to college, get a decent job and still get a decent middle class house. 
Now, college degree, better than average job, ya still aren’t getting a decent house in a desirable city/area.