To the instructors, an apology

[TexasTurf]

Finally found a group of great in person coaches in Dallas. Everything I've been watching on youtube etc. is the exact opposite of what I need to do to get better. Fire the hips, get deeper, hit off the trail side, let the right side dominate, drop it in the slot, rotate harder, hit it with the right shoulder, roll the club open back and closed going through, set up open, add loft to the face. Couldn't be more hurtful, you were right, I was wrong.

[golferdude54]

 

[Valtiel]

7 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Finally found a group of great in person coaches in Dallas. Everything I've been watching on youtube etc. is the exact opposite of what I need to do to get better. 

That's great, hopefully they can help! Regarding the various "-isms" that you posted....just a few thoughts as it feels like you're implying all of those things were either recommended to you or were perhaps considered "good" in some way:
 

Quote

Fire the hips

There are right and wrong ways to actually do this, but far more "wrong". Most people spin too much without shifting properly when given this instruction.
 

Quote

get deeper

This depends on which elements you're referring to. Hips? Sure, but again there is a right and wrong way. Hands/arms? Only if they are excessively vertical and lacking depth in the backswing (not very common). 

 

Quote

hit off the trail side

This is virtually never a good thing to tell the average player as their inability to get *off* the trail said and use the lead side correctly is like....99% of the average player's problem. 
 

Quote

let the right side dominate

Same as the above (for a righty)

 

Quote

drop it in the slot

Right and wrong ways to do this, and more wrong. This often gets players manipulating their hand position/path in the downswing when they should be focused more on proper wrist conditions and backswing positions. 

 

Quote

rotate harder

Same caveat as "fire the hips"

 

Quote

hit it with the right shoulder

This is a mixed bag, but for all intents and purposes it rarely addresses anything specific enough to have value IMO. Worst case it gets people firing their right shoulder outwards which might be good for the "dump the trail side/swing to right field" crowd, but otherwise meh....

 

Quote

roll the club open back and closed going through

Similar to the above, may be useful for those that keep the club excessively shut going back? Otherwise this is too indirect to be considered a solid swing thought and very often gets people rolling the forearms too much. 

 

Quote

set up open, add loft to the face.

Also similar to the above....if you're one of those people that address the ball with a shut face as an "anti-slice" measure as a bandaid then this might encourage better moves? Again though, far too care dependent to be considered good for most. 

 

Quote

Couldn't be more hurtful, you were right, I was wrong.

You're probably sensing a theme with the above which explains the "hurtful". The best case scenario is that a couple of those thoughts *might* be slightly helpful in specific cases, but most of those are damaging and ALL of them fall into the same general bucket:

There isn't a single pithy swing tip/thought that is inherently valuable or good without proper context. 

Like anything that is complex or deeply layered....over simplistic "-isms" are always more damaging on average than helpful. Only when you have a solid grasp of the *entire* picture and how things connect and play off each other can you introduce simpler concepts without risking breaking something else. And easily 7 out of the 9 things you listed above could MORE easily describe common issues the people need to fix, not swing thoughts to emulate. 

[TexasTurf]

9 hours ago, Valtiel said:

That's great, hopefully they can help! Regarding the various "-isms" that you posted....just a few thoughts as it feels like you're implying all of those things were either recommended to you or were perhaps considered "good" in some way:
 

There are right and wrong ways to actually do this, but far more "wrong". Most people spin too much without shifting properly when given this instruction.
 

This depends on which elements you're referring to. Hips? Sure, but again there is a right and wrong way. Hands/arms? Only if they are excessively vertical and lacking depth in the backswing (not very common). 

 

This is virtually never a good thing to tell the average player as their inability to get *off* the trail said and use the lead side correctly is like....99% of the average player's problem. 
 

Same as the above (for a righty)

 

Right and wrong ways to do this, and more wrong. This often gets players manipulating their hand position/path in the downswing when they should be focused more on proper wrist conditions and backswing positions. 

 

Same caveat as "fire the hips"

 

This is a mixed bag, but for all intents and purposes it rarely addresses anything specific enough to have value IMO. Worst case it gets people firing their right shoulder outwards which might be good for the "dump the trail side/swing to right field" crowd, but otherwise meh....

 

Similar to the above, may be useful for those that keep the club excessively shut going back? Otherwise this is too indirect to be considered a solid swing thought and very often gets people rolling the forearms too much. 

 

Also similar to the above....if you're one of those people that address the ball with a shut face as an "anti-slice" measure as a bandaid then this might encourage better moves? Again though, far too care dependent to be considered good for most. 

 

You're probably sensing a theme with the above which explains the "hurtful". The best case scenario is that a couple of those thoughts *might* be slightly helpful in specific cases, but most of those are damaging and ALL of them fall into the same general bucket:

There isn't a single pithy swing tip/thought that is inherently valuable or good without proper context. 

Like anything that is complex or deeply layered....over simplistic "-isms" are always more damaging on average than helpful. Only when you have a solid grasp of the *entire* picture and how things connect and play off each other can you introduce simpler concepts without risking breaking something else. And easily 7 out of the 9 things you listed above could MORE easily describe common issues the people need to fix, not swing thoughts to emulate. 

Thanks. What they were teaching me was basically the opposite of most of those things I listed. That's what I thought I was supposed to do before. 

[MonteScheinblum]

17 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Finally found a group of great in person coaches in Dallas. Everything I've been watching on youtube etc. is the exact opposite of what I need to do to get better. Fire the hips, get deeper, hit off the trail side, let the right side dominate, drop it in the slot, rotate harder, hit it with the right shoulder, roll the club open back and closed going through, set up open, add loft to the face. Couldn't be more hurtful, you were right, I was wrong.

I will be less diplomatic than @Valtiel.  Everything on your list is 🐶💩, even with context.  
 

I think I can speak for most of us when I say it’s awesome that you found someone who both knows what they’re doing and you connect with them.  That’s hard…..but getting easier because more and more coaches are waking up and studying objective information on the swing instead of adhering to century and a half old cliches that are a misinterpretation of the misinterpretation of a feel of someone of note. 
 

I am sure I can speak for almost everyone when I say there is no need to apologize when change your beliefs for your own benefit.

[mizunotpz]

Maybe a big part of the problem is that there are far too many lazy coaches and coaching out there. I went to see like 6-7 coaches for about ten years ago. I was a good student and recorded the sessions so I could focus on those things while practising and when I look back on those experiences now its quite embarrassing for them.  None of them fixed my sit back posture, no one adressed the fact that I was adding tons of left forearm rotation going back which resulted in a club inside and wide open. And none of them fixed my hip movement or told me to create some seperation to stop me from spinning out all the time. This is quite extraordinary since I took about 30 lessons from these charlatans. Found a good coach in the end that fixed these basics things. One of the coaches had me swing faster and faster for 40 minutes. And I remember he said "fascinating, you dont have any seperation." But he didnt explain the concept. He just thought my swing tempo was too slow, but reason for that was that I had lost all confidence and tried to feel something that might be right.

[mizunotpz]

The feeling I had when walking away from those lessons was that I was the problem, that I was thinking too much or overanalysing. I was just asking questions to try to get some info I could use. Haha.

[Valtiel]

41 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I will be less diplomatic than @Valtiel.  Everything on your list is 🐶💩, even with context. 

[WesternRacing]

Nothing beats quality in person instruction.  I don’t waste my time with on line stuff.

 

May take a while to find the right coach for you, but once you do, stick with them.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

Nothing beats quality in person instruction. I don’t waste my time with on line stuff.

 

May take a while to find the right coach for you, but once you do, stick with them.

 

Some people don't have "quality, in-person instruction" close enough to them, so "quality, online instruction" trumps "poor, in-person instruction."

[GoGoErky]

There’s a number of online instructors who are far better than the vast majority of in person instructors.

 

two post here regularly, iteach who used to. Others off the top of my head shauheen, Alex Riggs, Jayson nickel. Just to name a few.

 

[Canyonaro]

29 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

There’s a number of online instructors who are far better than the vast majority of in person instructors.

 

two post here regularly, iteach who used to. Others off the top of my head shauheen, Alex Riggs, Jayson nickel. Just to name a few.

 

Mark Crossfield fixed my chipping with a 7-minute video. He has some good, simple instruction that isn't filled with buzzwords. 

[dnong]

@TexasTurfI'm in DFW area, care to share who those coaches are?

[TexasTurf]

51 minutes ago, dnong said:

@TexasTurfI'm in DFW area, care to share who those coaches are?

Pure Swing Golf.  Across from the galleria, just NW of 635 and DNT.

 

They want me leaning way left on backswing and going further left through the ball, handle way forward and face closed to hit a big, low, push hook to start, which is funny because I already hit a massive hook, but with way too much loft. We'll see how it goes.

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

Mark Crossfield fixed my chipping with a 7-minute video. He has some good, simple instruction that isn't filled with buzzwords. 

He's a joker. I recall how happy he was when talking about a player coming to him who was struggling with launch. He said "Have you tried hitting it higher?" which was the extent of the lesson because this guy managed to make a compensation in lesson. 

[RayPlan]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

He's a joker. I recall how happy he was when talking about a player coming to him who was struggling with launch. He said "Have you tried hitting it higher?" which was the extent of the lesson because this guy managed to make a compensation in lesson. 

How can he be a joker? He's dishing out tips that ALWAYS WORK, for free, in just a few minutes. How could you argue with that?

 

 

This is the face of a hero. If only there were more people like him out there, then we could live in a world where 95% of amateurs actually do this one thing correctly to add distance.

[GoGoErky]

7 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

Mark Crossfield fixed my chipping with a 7-minute video. He has some good, simple instruction that isn't filled with buzzwords. 

YouTube golf is not where I would recommend anyone trying to fix their golf swing go to get help. When I say online I am talking about an online lesson with an instructor, whether that’s send in a video and get feedback with some type of ability to do a follow up to make sure you’re in the right track or to do some type of virtual lesson with them via zoom or other platform.

 

YouTube golf should be for entertainment purposes only 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

How can he be a joker? He's dishing out tips that ALWAYS WORK, for free, in just a few minutes. How could you argue with that?

 

 

This is the face of a hero. If only there were more people like him out there, then we could live in a world where 95% of amateurs actually do this one thing correctly to add distance.

Sorry, my bad. Mark, you're my hero! 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

How can he be a joker? He's dishing out tips that ALWAYS WORK, for free, in just a few minutes. How could you argue with that?

 

 

This is the face of a hero. If only there were more people like him out there, then we could live in a world where 95% of amateurs actually do this one thing correctly to add distance.

This is sarcasm right?

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, GoGoErky said:

This is sarcasm right?

Definitely sarcasm. 

[RayPlan]

38 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

This is sarcasm right?

Mark Crossfield is now one of the countless golf tip YouTubers who somehow manage to use suspiciously similar clickbait titles and thumbnails that say things like "Don't turn in the golf swing!" and "95% of amateurs get this move wrong!" 

 

It's the worst kind of golf slop.

 

@MK7Golf21 Edited to clarify that my commentary is about his current content, which seems like it must come from some kind of YouTube expert consultancy or groupthink among the kind of people who manage these channels.

Edited May 8 by RayPlan

[MK7Golf21]

1 minute ago, RayPlan said:

Mark Crossfield is one of the countless golf tip YouTubers who somehow manage to use suspiciously similar clickbait titles and thumbnails that say things like "Don't turn in the golf swing!" and "95% of amateurs get this move wrong!" 

 

It's the worst kind of golf slop.

 

back in the day he used to have pretty good equipment reviews, that's mainly what his channel was then. He was an unbiased equipment reviewer who wasn't sponsored by anyone.

[virtuoso]

Someday I’m going to start a golf YouTube channel that has the opposite of click-bait titles. Stuff like:

 

”This is what the Pro’s do but you can’t do it, so don’t even try.”

 

”This pro move is NOT a secret, and it’s REALLY hard to do.”

 

…but even that is click-bait-y in it’s own way. I’d probably have huge subscribers clicking in to see what they can’t do.

[golferdude54]

4 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Someday I’m going to start a golf YouTube channel that has the opposite of click-bait titles. Stuff like:

 

”This is what the Pro’s do but you can’t do it, so don’t even try.”

 

”This pro move is NOT a secret, and it’s REALLY hard to do.”

 

…but even that is click-bait-y in it’s own way. I’d probably have huge subscribers clicking in to see what they can’t do.

 

"How to swing like a 14.7 handicapper" when your actual swing is closer to +14.7 than -14.7...

[LongNwrong27]

On 5/7/2025 at 1:55 AM, TexasTurf said:

Finally found a group of great in person coaches in Dallas. Everything I've been watching on youtube etc. is the exact opposite of what I need to do to get better. Fire the hips, get deeper, hit off the trail side, let the right side dominate, drop it in the slot, rotate harder, hit it with the right shoulder, roll the club open back and closed going through, set up open, add loft to the face. Couldn't be more hurtful, you were right, I was wrong.

What videos were telling you to rotate the club open on the backswing and closed on DS? The en vogue stuff would be the opposite, getting club face closed and then rotating hard to keep face square. Almost everyone says having face too open is a major swing flaw. Who is telling you to add loft? Not sure if trolling or you just misunderstood but don’t really think many people were actually advocating for a lot of this stuff 
 

 

Edited May 8 by LongNwrong27

[MK7Golf21]

1 minute ago, LongNwrong27 said:

What videos were telling you to rotate the club open on the backswing and closed on DS? The en vogue stuff would be the opposite, getting club face closed and then rotating hard to keep face square. Almost everyone says having face too open is a major swing flaw. Who is telling you to add loft? Not sure if trolling or you just misunderstood but don’t really think many people were actually advocating for a lot of this stuff 
 

 

 

maybe he is having flashbacks of some 70's golf instruction magazines

[Riga]

45 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Someday I’m going to start a golf YouTube channel that has the opposite of click-bait titles. Stuff like:

 

”This is what the Pro’s do but you can’t do it, so don’t even try.”

 

”This pro move is NOT a secret, and it’s REALLY hard to do.”

 

…but even that is click-bait-y in it’s own way. I’d probably have huge subscribers clicking in to see what they can’t do.

Well it worked.  What pro move is hard to do?

 

Riga

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Someday I’m going to start a golf YouTube channel that has the opposite of click-bait titles. Stuff like:

 

”This is what the Pro’s do but you can’t do it, so don’t even try.”

 

”This pro move is NOT a secret, and it’s REALLY hard to do.”

 

…but even that is click-bait-y in it’s own way. I’d probably have huge subscribers clicking in to see what they can’t do.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see clickbait switch to a more reverse psychology like that. This kind of hyperbole usually reaches a point of saturation/fatigue and it takes something different to mix it up. Everyone remembers the "...this one weird trick!" clickbait that no one uses anymore. It felt like it was designed to pique someone's curiosity and get them wondering about whatever the "secret" was. Now it's just screaming "THIS IS THE SECRET!" in one way or another which I feel like is due for a shift here soon. 

Edited May 8 by Valtiel

[virtuoso]

59 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see clickbait switch to a more reverse psychology like that. This kind of hyperbole usually reaches a point of saturation/fatigue and it takes something different to mix it up. Everyone remembers the "...this one weird trick!" clickbait that no one uses anymore. It felt like it was designed to pique someone's curiosity and get them wondering about whatever the "secret" was. Now it's just screaming "THIS IS THE SECRET!" in one way or another which I feel like is due for a shift here soon. 

My prototype unlisted Debbie-Downer video series will be available through PM shortly. Anyone that wants access, let me know through PM so I don't drag this thread OT.

Edited May 8 by virtuoso

[WesternRacing]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Some people don't have "quality, in-person instruction" close enough to them, so "quality, online instruction" trumps "poor, in-person instruction."

 

The challenge being how to determine what is quality online instruction out of all the garbage out there.  That’s often the hard part over the Interwebs.

 

Of course, one can just do what Jason Kelce did this week and post a video of one’s swing on Reddit asking for input from all the experts there…

 

Edited May 8 by WesternRacing