To the instructors, an apology

[virtuoso]

I need a secret decoder ring to figure out what this thread is actually trying to accomplish.

 

It reminds me of another current thread that is taking numerous pages to come to a consensus that:

 

Low point before the ball= bad

Low point after the ball= better

[sundaypins]

Same here viewing the apology tour. 

[TexasTurf]

On 6/26/2025 at 9:56 AM, virtuoso said:

I need a secret decoder ring to figure out what this thread is actually trying to accomplish.

 

It reminds me of another current thread that is taking numerous pages to come to a consensus that:

 

Low point before the ball= bad

Low point after the ball= better

No decoder ring needed. Guy with massive high hook hit ball bad. Go get lessons. They teach to hit more from the inside, more down, with a more closed face. Drills enforcing the pattern. More distance achieved, more hook achieved, lower ballflight achieved. Great success.

 

Except it's now about a 45 degree running and diving low hook that is completely unplayable. But this is what "the best players in the world do." Close the stance more, keep going lower and steeper, close the face more, hands more forward, it will even out eventually...

 

Just venting now because some of this is good, but most bad. Stumbled into a very effective anti slice cult.

 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No decoder ring needed. Guy with massive high hook hit ball bad. Go get lessons. They teach to hit more from the inside, more down, with a more closed face. Drills enforcing the pattern. More distance achieved, more hook achieved, lower ballflight achieved. Great success.

 

Except it's now about a 45 degree running and diving low hook that is completely unplayable. But this is what "the best players in the world do." Close the stance more, keep going lower and steeper, close the face more, hands more forward, it will even out eventually...

 

Just venting now because some of this is good, but most bad. Stumbled into a very effective anti slice cult.

 

 

 

 

Um. 

[RayPlan]

5 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No decoder ring needed. Guy with massive high hook hit ball bad. Go get lessons. They teach to hit more from the inside, more down, with a more closed face. Drills enforcing the pattern. More distance achieved, more hook achieved, lower ballflight achieved. Great success.

 

Except it's now about a 45 degree running and diving low hook that is completely unplayable. But this is what "the best players in the world do." Close the stance more, keep going lower and steeper, close the face more, hands more forward, it will even out eventually...

 

Just venting now because some of this is good, but most bad. Stumbled into a very effective anti slice cult.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, they owe you an apology. Run far away from those jokers. 

[Hawkeye77]

7 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No decoder ring needed. Guy with massive high hook hit ball bad. Go get lessons. They teach to hit more from the inside, more down, with a more closed face. Drills enforcing the pattern. More distance achieved, more hook achieved, lower ballflight achieved. Great success.

 

Except it's now about a 45 degree running and diving low hook that is completely unplayable. But this is what "the best players in the world do." Close the stance more, keep going lower and steeper, close the face more, hands more forward, it will even out eventually...

 

Just venting now because some of this is good, but most bad. Stumbled into a very effective anti slice cult.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought the point of this now almost two months ago (and I'm not going to read it all but I'd read the first several posts back then and seemed pretty straightforward) was simply that you found good in person coaching that got you off the bad habit of pulling this or that off YouTube and you were pleased and having success?

 

Now the suggestion that you're getting bad coaching? 

[RayPlan]

On 5/8/2025 at 1:00 AM, TexasTurf said:

Pure Swing Golf.  Across from the galleria, just NW of 635 and DNT.

 

They want me leaning way left on backswing and going further left through the ball, handle way forward and face closed to hit a big, low, push hook to start, which is funny because I already hit a massive hook, but with way too much loft. We'll see how it goes.

 

42 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

I thought the point of this now almost two months ago (and I'm not going to read it all but I'd read the first several posts back then and seemed pretty straightforward) was simply that you found good in person coaching that got you off the bad habit of pulling this or that off YouTube and you were pleased and having success?

 

Now the suggestion that you're getting bad coaching? 

He thought he did, but the clues were there all along, if you look at the post I quoted above.

 

He said "we'll see how it goes" and it sounds like we're seeing how it went. 

[TheDeanAbides]

3 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

 

He thought he did, but the clues were there all along, if you look at the post I quoted above.

 

He said "we'll see how it goes" and it sounds like we're seeing how it went. 

[ThinkingPlus]

8 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No decoder ring needed. Guy with massive high hook hit ball bad. Go get lessons. They teach to hit more from the inside, more down, with a more closed face. Drills enforcing the pattern. More distance achieved, more hook achieved, lower ballflight achieved. Great success.

 

Except it's now about a 45 degree running and diving low hook that is completely unplayable. But this is what "the best players in the world do." Close the stance more, keep going lower and steeper, close the face more, hands more forward, it will even out eventually...

 

Just venting now because some of this is good, but most bad. Stumbled into a very effective anti slice cult.

 

 

 

 

Rope hooks...been there, done that, it isn't pretty...

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

I thought the point of this now almost two months ago (and I'm not going to read it all but I'd read the first several posts back then and seemed pretty straightforward) was simply that you found good in person coaching that got you off the bad habit of pulling this or that off YouTube and you were pleased and having success?

 

Now the suggestion that you're getting bad coaching? 

Yes, I’m feeling like he needs to now retract the apology.

[RayPlan]

Spy photo taken from @TexasTurf's lessons: 

 

 

[TexasTurf]

I hit a few shots today on the range adjacent to some great players and they are in no way leaning to the left of that left heel. They get right to it and move back if anything through the ball. Leaning forward of the front foot is "bunk!"

Edited June 30 by TexasTurf

[TexasTurf]

On 6/28/2025 at 7:49 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

 

I thought the point of this now almost two months ago (and I'm not going to read it all but I'd read the first several posts back then and seemed pretty straightforward) was simply that you found good in person coaching that got you off the bad habit of pulling this or that off YouTube and you were pleased and having success?

 

Now the suggestion that you're getting bad coaching? 

I like these guys a lot, they are all very good themselves, but it doesn't seem to align with what the best players are actually doing. I think this stuff is good for 95+% of golfers, but my pattern is in the other 5%

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

I like these guys a lot, they are all very good themselves, but it doesn't seem to align with what the best players are actually doing. I think this stuff is good for 95+% of golfers, but my pattern is in the other 5%

If you know better move on. 

[naj959]

4 pages deep... I want to see the swing👀 I'm in too deep now.

[TexasTurf]

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, TexasTurf said:

 

 

I’d start with you’re too far away and backswing too long.  Then reaccess.

[golferdude54]

8 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I’d start with you’re too far away and backswing too long.  Then reaccess.

The effort he’s swinging at just seems exhausting and it tells me he doesn’t take shorter swings at slower speeds to make swing changes at all.

[MonteScheinblum]

34 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

The effort he’s swinging at just seems exhausting and it tells me he doesn’t take shorter swings at slower speeds to make swing changes at all.

That’s a strange phenomenon I deal with every day.  
 

People don’t know how to take out their PW and hit it 75 yards with a left arm parallel swing……or even 100.
 

Their normal PW is 130, I ask for 100, they give me 128 with a full backswing. I ask for 50 with a waist high backswing, they give me 120 with a full backswing decel cut off.

 

I preach this to every golfer who will listen to me.  Learn how to hit every club form 7 iron down 2 clubs shorter with a backswing no longer than left arm parallel.  The ones that actually listen have a 100% success rate in lowering their handicap.  Only 10-20% listen to me.

 

Golf is the only sport where people make an actual effort to practice at full speed all the time and make no effort to learn better movements at half speed. 
 

Imagine a major league pitcher messing with his release point and plant foot position at 100 mph and a track sprinter working on stride length running as fast as they can….or a football team running a new play at full speed.

 

 

Edited July 17 by MonteScheinblum

[RayPlan]

3 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

The effort he’s swinging at just seems exhausting and it tells me he doesn’t take shorter swings at slower speeds to make swing changes at all.

You have no basis for that assumption. Would you treat someone like this if they were standing right in front of you, in-person?

 

@TexasTurf thanks for posting your swings. Ignore unhelpful people like this dude.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

You have no basis for that assumption. Would you treat someone like this if they were standing right in front of you, in-person?

 

@TexasTurf thanks for posting your swings. Ignore unhelpful people like this dude.

There’s nothing he said that is offensive, wrong or out of line 

Edited July 17 by GoGoErky

[GoGoErky]

5 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

 

 

To add to what Monte said if your instructor isn’t working on fixing the takeaway imo your not getting good instruction 

[RayPlan]

@TexasTurf

 

One basic item to look at before anything else: grip. In your FO view, there's a big clue something isn't right with your grip:

 

 

You can see daylight between your right thumb and the grip, so your hold on the club has loosened by P3, meaning your right hand probably regrips at some point. 

 

I think you'll need to be more intentional with your grip in your pre-shot routine. Here, it looks like you start with the club in your right palm, then put your left hand on the club, then sort of adjust from there, with your right hand staying on the club the whole time:

 

 

Most sources of instruction would have you start with your left on the club first, then add the right.

 

I'm not an instructor, so I'll lean on some local expertise here (iacas), who has this lengthy video on grip:

 

 

Since your hands are the only connection to the club, grip is crucial to setting up the actual swing for success. 

 

 

Edited July 17 by RayPlan

[NosajNeelik]

On 6/28/2025 at 12:25 PM, RayPlan said:

Spy photo taken from @TexasTurf's lessons: 

 

 

That’s the feel I’m working on @virtuoso

[virtuoso]

21 minutes ago, NosajNeelik said:

That’s the feel I’m working on @virtuoso

That’s called The Elite Two Cheek position.

 

(btw, on your swing you don’t have to get that open)

[sundaypins]

@TexasTurf  Thanks for using YouTube for video link instead of uploading here, or other hosting sites.  Makes life easier.  

 

Not sure why instructors would find value encouraging reaching out like that for the ball at the address since it encourages getting too inside going back and the entire body response from that inside move will need a compensation through balance first and whatever is left of sequence second,  so stand a little closer for sure.   The over swing combines, but is not limited by, unneeded excessive shaft lean at address, the subsequent pull inside, and too much side to side with the body.   Recommend, for starters, being closer to ball with minimal to no shaft lean at address so your pivot can find lean instead of you manufacturing it before you begin.   

 

I doubt you're in Texas as nowhere to be found were armadillos, rusted barrels, tumble weed, and maybe an old truck outlining a sparsely grassed range field.   

 

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

6 hours ago, sundaypins said:

@TexasTurf  Thanks for using YouTube for video link instead of uploading here, or other hosting sites.  Makes life easier.  

 

Not sure why instructors would find value encouraging reaching out like that for the ball at the address since it encourages getting too inside going back and the entire body response from that inside move will need a compensation through balance first and whatever is left of sequence second,  so stand a little closer for sure.   The over swing combines, but is not limited by, unneeded excessive shaft lean at address, the subsequent pull inside, and too much side to side with the body.   Recommend, for starters, being closer to ball with minimal to no shaft lean at address so your pivot can find lean instead of you manufacturing it before you begin.   

 

I doubt you're in Texas as nowhere to be found were armadillos, rusted barrels, tumble weed, and maybe an old truck outlining a sparsely grassed range field.   

 

 

 

 

Texas is a big place...

[RayPlan]

10 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

There’s nothing he said that is offensive, wrong or out of line 

Maybe we just have different standards of politeness then. To each their own.

[GoGoErky]

5 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Maybe we just have different standards of politeness then. To each their own.

Again there was nothing rude in that post. The observation about the swing being exhausting is a pretty accurate observation as that movement pattern requires a lot of effort to make and to try and compensate for to hit the ball.

 

its also a pretty accurate observation about not taking slower swings based on the posts in various threads about how he spends 12+ hours working at the course, not much practice and no answers that I recall in those threads if he’s doing slow swing work. It’s also an accurate observation based on what the OP has stated his instructors have him doing that if he was doing slow work we would see some semblance of the changes being asked by the instructor.

 

Golferdude and I don’t agree on everything but he said nothing rude in that post. Theres 4 others that agree 

[jaffabell]

13 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Again there was nothing rude in that post. The observation about the swing being exhausting is a pretty accurate observation as that movement pattern requires a lot of effort to make and to try and compensate for to hit the ball.

 

its also a pretty accurate observation about not taking slower swings based on the posts in various threads about how he spends 12+ hours working at the course, not much practice and no answers that I recall in those threads if he’s doing slow swing work. It’s also an accurate observation based on what the OP has stated his instructors have him doing that if he was doing slow work we would see some semblance of the changes being asked by the instructor.

 

Golferdude and I don’t agree on everything but he said nothing rude in that post. Theres 4 others that agree 

Lets put this to bed now.

 

I think what Ray is getting at is that it was an assumption, and that's where context and tone can be misinterpreted over written text.

 

In a real life face to face conversation you would be more inclined to ask if he does any slow movement work, rather than just assuming he doesn't. I can see what golferdude was getting at with the observation but it did come across as a criticism rather than an objective observation. We all communicate differently and it is easy for folk to come across as cocky or condescending even if it isn't intentional.

 

Lets keep it friendly fella's as this instruction forum has been getting too confrontational in 2025