Are manufacturers now too close to the CT limit?

EagleAteBirdie · May 19

I don't want to speculate on particular cases, just the process, because I don't entirely agree with it.

If asked to, the USGA will conduct random tests before a competition and then inform players if their equipment is non-conforming?

Shouldn't this responsibility fall with the players and then the manufacturers? How about the USGA conduct random tests throughout a competition, and the rules of golf be applied accordingly if a club is found to be non-conforming?

Is the tour providing players too much protection here?

Ger21 · May 19

3 hours ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

Shouldn't this responsibility fall with the players

How would the players go about testing their own equipment?

mussgolf · May 19

CT testing equipment is expensive, not easy to use, and requires training. Club manufactures have the clubs tested before they are shipped from the manufacturer and then some are before they are shipped to the player. I think the way the usga test is really about the only way.

ksgolfcoach · May 19

A third of the field (roughly) is tested every week on tour.

J13 · May 19

4 hours ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

I don't want to speculate on particular cases, just the process, because I don't entirely agree with it.

If asked to, the USGA will conduct random tests before a competition and then inform players if their equipment is non-conforming?

Shouldn't this responsibility fall with the players and then the manufacturers? How about the USGA conduct random tests throughout a competition, and the rules of golf be applied accordingly if a club is found to be non-conforming?

Is the tour providing players too much protection here?

Heads migrate and this is a very common occurrence on tour. Its only being discussed because it was a top 10 guy.

OEM's test every head sent to the tour van, knowing that over time it will eventually creep over. There's nothing that can be done, and it's why the USGA tests clubheads. OEM's aren't trying to get one by, nor is the USGA trying to catch someone in the act. Both parties, including the player, are all about maintaining integrity and an even playing field.

golfinbrad · May 19

2 minutes ago, J13 said:

Heads migrate and this is a very common occurrence on tour. Its only being discussed because it was a top 10 guy.

OEM's test every head sent to the tour van, knowing that over time it will eventually creep over. There's nothing that can be done, and it's why the USGA tests clubheads. OEM's aren't trying to get one by, nor is the USGA trying to catch someone in the act. Both parties, including the player, are all about maintaining integrity and an even playing field.

Agreed. I remember seeing an interview with a DP World Tour on the range. They were asking why he put in a new 3 wood. He explained that hitting thousands of balls with a wood slowing makes the face thinner, which as a result takes more spin off and the ball goes further. I can see this happening to the players in question. Like most WRXers, I'm lucky to hit a wood a couple hundred times before trading in.

DooZ · May 19

Didn't I hear Scottie say in his post round presser yesterday that his driver failed also when tested earlier in the week? It's fairly common but nobody really hears about it, I'm surprised with the Rory leak with how non-transparent the tour is.

born4golf77 · May 19

They're not close they're consistently over the actual "limit" bc the usga allows a certain variance. The "limit" is 238ct but w the variance allowed I think a club is still conforming until it goes beyond 257. Kinda ridiculous imo oh hang up.

born4golf77 · May 19

1 minute ago, DooZ said:

Didn't I hear Scottie say in his post round presser yesterday that his driver failed also when tested earlier in the week? It's fairly common but nobody really hears about it, I'm surprised with the Rory leak with how non-transparent the tour is.

PGA tour is notoriously guarded abt everything tbh

goudok · May 19

2 hours ago, Ger21 said:

How would the players go about testing their own equipment?

Exactly. I believe Paul Mcginley on live from said players should be testing. What? Is he on cheap c____k. Why would players be testing. If anything manufacturers are responsible. I belt the tour is protecting the oems more than the player in this case. If your are TM and you just had 1 and 2 player in the world fail that looks terrible.

Puttersaurus Rex · May 19

This topic has been beat to death over the years. Don't like the "process", then write a letter to the USGA and tell them how you feel. Complaining about it on a golf forum isn't going to change anything.

None of this is new or shocking.

ode1 · May 19

I certainly hope so!

Valtiel · May 19

2 hours ago, mussgolf said:

CT testing equipment is expensive, not easy to use, and requires training. Club manufactures have the clubs tested before they are shipped from the manufacturer and then some are before they are shipped to the player. I think the way the usga test is really about the only way.

1 hour ago, J13 said:

Heads migrate and this is a very common occurrence on tour. Its only being discussed because it was a top 10 guy.

OEM's test every head sent to the tour van, knowing that over time it will eventually creep over. There's nothing that can be done, and it's why the USGA tests clubheads. OEM's aren't trying to get one by, nor is the USGA trying to catch someone in the act. Both parties, including the player, are all about maintaining integrity and an even playing field.

12 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

This topic has been beat to death over the years. Don't like the "process", then write a letter to the USGA and tell them how you feel. Complaining about it on a golf forum isn't going to change anything.

None of this is new or shocking.

Yup, all of this. Reading anything on social media about this whenever it crops up is headache inducing because it is...

1) Not new
2) Not controversial
3) Not a problem/advantage for the player
4) Not something that can be prevented outside of literally testing the entire field every single day

Driver faces get "hotter" as they are hit more, especially when these guys are beating the same spot over and over again. When a club finally creeps over the legal limit it is still NOT faster in any meaningful capacity. Tom Wishon posted about this years ago...basically the amount of CT/COR drift over time from an average "conforming" driver that creeps over the line from extended use accounts for about 2 yards. It's basically nothing and a non-issue, but they have to draw the line somewhere so...

Lord Helmet · May 19

3 hours ago, golfinbrad said:

Like most WRXers, I'm lucky to hit a wood a couple times before trading in.

Fixed that for ya.

🙂

storm3 · May 19

10 hours ago, DooZ said:

Didn't I hear Scottie say in his post round presser yesterday that his driver failed also when tested earlier in the week? It's fairly common but nobody really hears about it, I'm surprised with the Rory leak with how non-transparent the tour is.

This happened at the PGA Championship which has no affiliation with the PGA Tour.

storm3 · May 19

9 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Yup, all of this. Reading anything on social media about this whenever it crops up is headache inducing because it is...

1) Not new
2) Not controversial
3) Not a problem/advantage for the player
4) Not something that can be prevented outside of literally testing the entire field every single day

Driver faces get "hotter" as they are hit more, especially when these guys are beating the same spot over and over again. When a club finally creeps over the legal limit it is still NOT faster in any meaningful capacity. Tom Wishon posted about this years ago...basically the amount of CT/COR drift over time from an average "conforming" driver that creeps over the line from extended use accounts for about 2 yards. It's basically nothing and a non-issue, but they have to draw the line somewhere so...

To add to this, all of the organizations that have the USGA/R&A come in to provide onsite testing do so to a) make sure that it is tested consistently with the standard conformance methodology (calibration or measurement location variance wouldn’t have to be off by much with how close some of these heads are to the upper CT limit) and b) so that they do not need to be the bad guy when having to enforce a failed test. The primary reason why the USGA/R&A continue as the universal ruling bodies is due to the fact that no one else wants to take on the maintenance/testing/enforcement burden.