Shaft/profile help for a friend - seriously

[CoachRich]

Friend of mine has a Maverick (has no other letters or anything, so guessing it is basic Maverick head) driver.

In it is Riptide CB 5.5 R 50g

 

Please use your wonderful awareness of the shafts below to suggest a few old faithfuls that will exist in used drivers, that would offer a similar difference from his current shaft.  Almost certainly going to be swapping this driver for something different - M2, G400, Rogue Max LS, SIM2 MAX. Something that is raved about for more than just one marketing cycle.

 

did the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer and it kicked out the following:

1. Denali Red 60S

2. Tensei 1K Blue 65 R

3. Tensei 1K Blue 65 S

4. Denali Red 60 R

5. Tensei 1K Black 65 S

6. Denali Red 50 R

 

Yes a fitting would be cool and yes he is working to change his swing. But like most actual golfers he is still playing weekly while doing so.  I've played with him regularly and at times when his swing was better he still wasn't getting out of it, what he had gotten out of prior much older drivers.

 

Edited May 22 by CoachRich

[CoachRich]

If it helps mizuno kicked out these numbers:

7i

 

79 mph

tempo: 5.67

toe down: 3.33

kick angle: 8.33

[CTgamer]

This is an impossible question to answer without a swing video and understanding why his drives are spinny. But the honest answer is that:

 

1. Drivers have been relatively low spin for a decade or more now, if he’s hitting it spinny and losing distance that’s a delivery issue. 

 

2. Shafts don’t “launch and spin,” and even if they do under certain delivery and release conditions, they certainly don’t at 79mph swing speed (which is too slow for any shaft to be doing much of anything other than being a certain weight and matching a golfer’s feel - because it takes forward shaft deflection at impact, which takes speed and proper release, to even occur meaningfully). 

 

3. Speaking of spin, that swing speed also isn’t fast enough to “over spin” it, realistically - so that also points to a delivery issue. 
 

4. If your friend is like 95% of golfers that come in for fits and/or lessons, he’s swinging over the top, with a club path that’s very left (for a right handed player), and a wide open club face. No fitting can fix that. 
 

5. Without seeing video I’d recommend spending that money on lessons rather than a driver (and/or just going back to the driver he was using previously). Otherwise he’s throwing money down the drain trying to solve the wrong problem, or worse, trying to buy a solution rather than fix the underlying issue. 

[CoachRich]

58 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

This is an impossible question to answer without a swing video and understanding why his drives are spinny. But the honest answer is that:

 

1. Drivers have been relatively low spin for a decade or more now, if he’s hitting it spinny and losing distance that’s a delivery issue. 

 

2. Shafts don’t “launch and spin,” and even if they do under certain delivery and release conditions, they certainly don’t at 79mph swing speed (which is too slow for any shaft to be doing much of anything other than being a certain weight and matching a golfer’s feel - because it takes forward shaft deflection at impact, which takes speed and proper release, to even occur meaningfully). 

 

3. Speaking of spin, that swing speed also isn’t fast enough to “over spin” it, realistically - so that also points to a delivery issue. 
 

4. If your friend is like 95% of golfers that come in for fits and/or lessons, he’s swinging over the top, with a club path that’s very left (for a right handed player), and a wide open club face. No fitting can fix that. 
 

5. Without seeing video I’d recommend spending that money on lessons rather than a driver (and/or just going back to the driver he was using previously). Otherwise he’s throwing money down the drain trying to solve the wrong problem, or worse, trying to buy a solution rather than fix the underlying issue. 

THANKS

Although valid points.  It is plausible that while working to fix his swing - which you are absolutely spot on about ...... he can also find a better driver for him now and possibly again later.  Used clubs are so easy to bump from one to another dollar wise.

Even if just a smidge.

 

 

Edited May 22 by CoachRich

[Urb]

Riptide CB has a really stiff handle and a big soft midsection.

 

Ventus red (even a non Velocore) might be close.

 

Tensei Blue variants but won't have as soft a mid.  

 

Ping Alta CB maybe?

[ScooterMcTavish]

This is an interesting one, as there is not always a direct correlation between spin and shaft profile, all depending on how they deliver the club to the ball.  For example, I used to generate too much spin and launch from a soft-handled stiff-tipped shaft - opposite of what is normally expected. Firm-handle, soft-tipped shafts generally increase launch and spin. 

 

However, if a golfer has a negative AoA without a very high clubhead speed (i.e. PGA level), excessive backspin will always be an issue.  And this is a swing issue no shaft will fix (trust me).

 

Here is a good post about the EI profile for the Riptide and Riptide CB.  As can be seen, the largest differences from the fairly linear Riptide is a bit more softness in the middle, and a fair bit more firm under the handle.

 

My instinctive thought is that if this is not an AoA issue, the softer mid of the shaft is providing a bit more kick.  Easiest shaft to find if this is the issue is a Project X Black shaft, which is very, very common in many drivers.  If this pulls down the spin numbers, then your friend would appear to need a fairly stout shaft.

Conversely, if he cannot keep the PX Black down or from over-spinning, then the only solution is fixing the swing.  And guessing he needs to work on AoA already - for me it was a complete game-changer.  

    

[CoachRich]

8 hours ago, Urb said:

Riptide CB has a really stiff handle and a big soft midsection.

 

Ventus red (even a non Velocore) might be close.

 

Tensei Blue variants but won't have as soft a mid.  

 

Ping Alta CB maybe?

Thanks. I sense maybe I wasn't clear. I'm trying to sort out what the Riptide is .... Compared to those others.... That does NOT mesh with him.

Though I think you hit it a bit.  Soft mid compared to firm and controlled tip section.  

Mizuno Optimizer kicked out those recommendations and just looking for other mid mid shafts we can find in 2 to 7 year old drivers. 

Thanks

[CoachRich]

3 hours ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

This is an interesting one, as there is not always a direct correlation between spin and shaft profile, all depending on how they deliver the club to the ball.  For example, I used to generate too much spin and launch from a soft-handled stiff-tipped shaft - opposite of what is normally expected. Firm-handle, soft-tipped shafts generally increase launch and spin. 

 

However, if a golfer has a negative AoA without a very high clubhead speed (i.e. PGA level), excessive backspin will always be an issue.  And this is a swing issue no shaft will fix (trust me).

 

Here is a good post about the EI profile for the Riptide and Riptide CB.  As can be seen, the largest differences from the fairly linear Riptide is a bit more softness in the middle, and a fair bit more firm under the handle.

 

My instinctive thought is that if this is not an AoA issue, the softer mid of the shaft is providing a bit more kick.  Easiest shaft to find if this is the issue is a Project X Black shaft, which is very, very common in many drivers.  If this pulls down the spin numbers, then your friend would appear to need a fairly stout shaft.

Conversely, if he cannot keep the PX Black down or from over-spinning, then the only solution is fixing the swing.  And guessing he needs to work on AoA already - for me it was a complete game-changer.  

    

U r correct swing fix is being addressed but we all know how that goes.

Earlier reply exposed the issue with the Riptide you pointed out.  Soft mid is disastrous for him 

[born4golf77]

20 hours ago, CTgamer said:

This is an impossible question to answer without a swing video and understanding why his drives are spinny. But the honest answer is that:

 

1. Drivers have been relatively low spin for a decade or more now, if he’s hitting it spinny and losing distance that’s a delivery issue. 

 

2. Shafts don’t “launch and spin,” and even if they do under certain delivery and release conditions, they certainly don’t at 79mph swing speed (which is too slow for any shaft to be doing much of anything other than being a certain weight and matching a golfer’s feel - because it takes forward shaft deflection at impact, which takes speed and proper release, to even occur meaningfully). 

 

3. Speaking of spin, that swing speed also isn’t fast enough to “over spin” it, realistically - so that also points to a delivery issue. 
 

4. If your friend is like 95% of golfers that come in for fits and/or lessons, he’s swinging over the top, with a club path that’s very left (for a right handed player), and a wide open club face. No fitting can fix that. 
 

5. Without seeing video I’d recommend spending that money on lessons rather than a driver (and/or just going back to the driver he was using previously). Otherwise he’s throwing money down the drain trying to solve the wrong problem, or worse, trying to buy a solution rather than fix the underlying issue. 

 

 

79mph was his 7i swing speed. Driver would prob be 105-110 i imagine

[Urb]

If need some mid bend (but not a ton)

 

Kai'li white

Diamana ZF

Tensei white

 

If need mid firm, any of the Hzrdus RDX except blue.  Riptide black, tensei orange, Denali black.  Any Diamana whiteboard.

[CoachRich]

4 hours ago, born4golf77 said:

 

 

79mph was his 7i swing speed. Driver would prob be 105-110 i imagine

Correct.  I would not estimate his driver at the higher end of that but at minimum 100-105 on his better moves.

[CoachRich]

3 hours ago, Urb said:

If need some mid bend (but not a ton)

 

Kai'li white

Diamana ZF

Tensei white

 

If need mid firm, any of the Hzrdus RDX except blue.  Riptide black, tensei orange, Denali black.  Any Diamana whiteboard.

Much appreciated!!!