Swingweight - Choking down on grip impact/effect

Cottis · May 24

I was watching Tommy Fleetwood recently and he seems to frequently grip his irons quite a way down from the top of the butt end. I have no idea what his swingweights are and what length his irons are but he is a similar height to me (5'10")

I recently went back to an old set of irons (MP4's) that I have always loved and when I built them, I soft stepped them and cut them down 5/16" from a totally standard set of 221's that I was using for a couple of years, as I have always choked down by about 3/4" on standard length clubs. Now I cannot recall decisions I made on swingweights back when I made these clubs and I think I might have just soft stepped them and reused whatever tip weights were in the clubs prior to me rebuilding them. And then obviously cutting them down a bit from the butt (standard taper tip X1's)

It got me thinking about swingweights. I have now compared them to my newer Mizunos which were built in factory as a custom order and they all had D1-2 swingweights as expected. The old MP4s I built are C9-D0. And I absolutely love them. I can grip them nicely at the top of the butt and they just work for me. The 221s are a good club but I am choking down on them about 3/4-1" and they just don't feel as good as the MP4s. Both have standard 130gm X100 shafts. I am a scratch player and iron play is the strongest part of my game. I am not really a gear head but it got me thinking about the impact of how we grip the club and the effective impact that has on SW. I am guessing that by gripping the MP4's at the top and choking down on the 221's (given their apparent 2-3 point SW difference on the scales) that I am in effect neutralising the SW difference somewhat. Fleetwood must be doing the same and if is using somewhere around a D2 SW in his irons which I imagine is not far from the truth, then is he effectively using a SW that might be more "suitable" to the top end of what a senior might use. Seems I am similar.

I have always liked heavier shafts but never really felt like I have lost the feel of where the head of the club is in space when it comes to irons. I am however very sensitive to that with driver and have always erred on the side of adding weight to driver head to bring SW up. All other clubs not so much. Driver is not a strong club for me whereas Iron play is good. Just some thoughts which I suppose always comes back to just use what works for you without questioning why. It's a weird game.

J.Bex · May 24

In Swingweight Calculator+ (Link), there's an option to enter how much you're choking down and see what that does to swingweight. It's the same as if you could slide the club on a real swingweight scale past the butt stop cradle.

This was the example showing a club at D3.9 choked down 1", effectively becoming C7.3 (green):

It's probably a bigger swingweight change than people think, but it's not really a good representation of feel (swingweight is supposed to help match like-built clubs, not be an absolute measure of feel... same even for an MOI machine). So not to be alarmed, but technically people can be choking down at low C or even B swingweights sometimes.

That's there as more an academic thing, by the math, but I'd always defer to just going by feel. Whatever works!

Cottis · May 24

Thanks for that. That is really interesting and useful for my inquisitive brain. It validates my feeling that despite the balance saying my fave shorter MP4's are high C's, they not only feel really good but overall feel a touch more weighty in terms of where I can feel the head in space at the top of the backswing and throughout transition.

The only fittings I have ever been to have just concentrated on various shafts really and some basic measurements of wrist to floor and then overall club length suggestions. I had to actually stipulate lie angles as I have never come across an off the shelf club that is flat enough for me. Even Mizzies I tend to get one deg flat.

Seems the best clubs I end up with are what I make which i suppose makes sense as I can keep wripping them apart and testing to ensure i get what feels right and consistent across the set.

dubbelbogey · May 24

Choking down on a club is a skill, but I think it's one that probably most golfers can adapt to pretty easily. Lots of us already do it with our wedges, and it's not uncommon in longer clubs. Not just Tommy Fleetwood, but look at Justin Thomas, Lydia Ko, Brooke Henderson - just to name a few among many who do it out on tour.

This is also why I think obsessing over swingweight is a bit over done at times. Sure, we want a well-built, consistent set. But we're all probably a lot more adaptable than some think. I believe those who might want to experiment with a shorter driver shaft can get a decent start just by choking down.

Edited May 24 by dubbelbogey

PedronNiall · May 25

13 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

Choking down on a club is a skill, but I think it's one that probably most golfers can adapt to pretty easily. Lots of us already do it with our wedges, and it's not uncommon in longer clubs. Not just Tommy Fleetwood, but look at Justin Thomas, Lydia Ko, Brooke Henderson - just to name a few among many who do it out on tour.

This is also why I think obsessing over swingweight is a bit over done at times. Sure, we want a well-built, consistent set. But we're all probably a lot more adaptable than some think. I believe those who might want to experiment with a shorter driver shaft can get a decent start just by choking down.

Really prevalent among the ladies in general. They grip wherever they know makes sense for the shot and then execute, many of them seeming to only grip all the way at the end for maxed out swings.

On the second part, simply choking down and adding weight as needed via lead tape to maintain feel is one of the recommendations when testing shorter driver lengths before going all in on cutting one down. It's having whatever feels comfortable more than actually sticking to a fixed swingweight, though, as MOI is a better means of maintaining consistency across like clubs than getting stuck on SW.

Lefty Mondegreen · May 25

Isn't gripping down a method of distance control and managing gaps, a la Dave Pelz? I once had a 105 yard 51 deg, and am 85 yard 55 deg and thought I was getting somewhere ... but, as the song goes, that was 1452 swing changes ago ...