Bad Buyer Experience

[LafertyDaniel]

21 minutes ago, James Ng said:

why dont you post the email you sent me giving me the ultimatum to pick it up or send it back?

James - I attached our full correspondence from both GolfWRX and email, as well as my follow up email to you this morning. It has the full timeline of events, and my email this morning mentioned to you that I would refund you once you refused delivery instead of my initial comment. Everyone in this thread, including you, can read through it in it's entirety. 

 

I don't expect anyone cares enough to read through it, but after you attempted to get me to pay you $40 additional for a guarantee I didn't make, it includes my ultimatum of three options: 

 

a) accept the head

b) refuse the head at UPS - I will refund you once I receive the head

c) Don't pick it up - I will refund you as soon as I receive the head

 

I suspected you were trying to scam me, but I decided that since you would not touch the box, then I could send you your money back as soon as the head was on it's way back to me. That's when I messaged you this morning.

Edited May 28 by LafertyDaniel

[LafertyDaniel]

Also, can you tell me where on this receipt it says the order was received at 7:09? It says "in store and packed" and I provided you the tracking number on the evening of Monday, May 19th? As I mentioned far earlier in this thread, it missed the shipping window for Monday, and went out Tuesday. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills trying to explain this over and over again.

[James Ng]

Just read again this email from you and tell me how a buyer would feel buying from you! Not that I’m worried about you possibly saying the club is not the same as when you shipped it or I have to wait for a long time before I get my money back. I have reached the point of being so frustrated with this I don’t even care if I lose the money or have to wait for a long time to get it back as you “politely” pointed out!

[LafertyDaniel]

1 hour ago, James Ng said:

Now I know from your post here that you let your friend try the head first even though you sold it to me already and it was paid! What in the world are you thinking? What if your friend hit it and there’s a paint chip or scruff mark?

Don't mince my words. The photos were taken after the head was sitting after testing, so you received it in the condition as described and sold. There were no additional shots made.

 

In the event the club was anything less than the condition described and photographed, of course I would take ownership of the miss and refund you or anyone else. I think I've proven through this thread I'm a reasonable person who has no issue taking ownership over their mistakes. 

[ColdOkieGolf]

3 minutes ago, LafertyDaniel said:

Also, can you tell me where on this receipt it says the order was received at 7:09? It says "in store and packed" and I provided you the tracking number on the evening of Monday, May 19th? As I mentioned far earlier in this thread, it missed the shipping window for Monday, and went out Tuesday. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills trying to explain this over and over again.

The tracking says that the label was created Tuesday evening (7:09).   It could be that it was dropped off and left for the UPS store to pack and ship vs. doing it yourself.

It seems like both parties are suspicious of each other -  but in reality it's simply poor communication and not so great choices that caused issues.   At this point it doesn't seem like either person is scamming the other.

While Laferty doesn't look the best here,  I think it's good that you have owned up.  Also, the package was supposed to get there Friday.  At that point it really isn't on Laferty.   It was shipped in a manner to get to James before the weekend.  His job was done and he can't be held responsible for package delays.



 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

So instead of bickering back and forth on who is wrong, even though both sides is wrong. How bout you both reach a resolution and call it good. Unless I missed where a resolution was reached, I apologize in advance. The fact that both of you continue to go back and forth with each other shows both of you guys suck at selling, buying, and communicating. 

[LafertyDaniel]

 

33 minutes ago, ColdOkieGolf said:

The tracking says that the label was created Tuesday evening (7:09).   It could be that it was dropped off and left for the UPS store to pack and ship vs. doing it yourself.

It seems like both parties are suspicious of each other -  but in reality it's simply poor communication and not so great choices that caused issues.   At this point it doesn't seem like either person is scamming the other.

While Laferty doesn't look the best here,  I think it's good that you have owned up.  Also, the package was supposed to get there Friday.  At that point it really isn't on Laferty.   It was shipped in a manner to get to James before the weekend.  His job was done and he can't be held responsible for package delays.



 

Agree with your points, and the tracking number on UPS.com shows 7:09 PM. If you look at the timestamp of my message, I provided tracking Monday night, and this receipt (printed at UPS) on Tuesday morning. I don't dispute it was scanned in at 7:10 PM, but if it was provided to UPS Monday evening, then they waited all day to pack and ship it. That's unfortunate, but that's ultimately a UPS logistics issue. 

 

I don't like the way James handled this, but accepted my responsibility. I understand part of his frustration and owned up to my part. I've mentioned that I’ve agreed to take the head at my cost here and to James personally. I’d love to be done with this. @James Ng what do you say?

Edited May 28 by LafertyDaniel

[James Ng]

i have already moved on as i paid another member for the same head for the same amount i paid to you. it was you that decided to not let go and try to post on here and paint me with a broad stroke as if i am a scammer. i have bought a lot on here but never had an issue with anyone. i was not happy as i had to wait friday sat sunday and monday as well and I still do not have it. You promised to ship it monday but screwed up and withheld information from me (letting your friend use the head, having him shipped etc..) Someone mentioned I have not been on here for 5 years, but before that I was very active and bought a lot from other members without issues. I just returned back to golf as the last 5 years and half I have been recovering from a serious medical condition but thats another story. I make offers and pay when all parties agree and move on but when someone promised me something and did not deliver it upsets me, not to mention for that reason, I was not able to use it this weekend. If you shipped it yourself on monday morning, we would not have to go thru all these.its that simple.

[LafertyDaniel]

1 minute ago, James Ng said:

i have already moved on as i paid another member for the same head for the same amount i paid to you. it was you that decided to not let go and try to post on here and paint me with a broad stroke as if i am a scammer. i have bought a lot on here but never had an issue with anyone. i was not happy as i had to wait friday sat sunday and monday as well and I still do not have it. You promised to ship it monday but screwed up and withheld information from me (letting your friend use the head, having him shipped etc..) Someone mentioned I have not been on here for 5 years, but before that I was very active and bought a lot from other members without issues. I just returned back to golf as the last 5 years and half I have been recovering from a serious medical condition but thats another story. I make offers and pay when all parties agree and move on but when someone promised me something and did not deliver it upsets me, not to mention for that reason, I was not able to use it this weekend. If you shipped it yourself on monday morning, we would not have to go thru all these.its that simple.

All the evidence is available in the first post, so I'm not going to continue to respond to these points so as not to further annoy you, myself or anyone else here.
 

As I mentioned this AM, as soon as I get confirmation the head is on its way back, I’ll refund you and post here for posterity. Deal? 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

At this point you guys are not doing yourselves any favors. Might as well grab some popcorn and enjoy this. 

[jblough99]

7 hours ago, LafertyDaniel said:

 

Agree with your points, and the tracking number on UPS.com shows 7:09 PM. If you look at the timestamp of my message, I provided tracking Monday night, and this receipt (printed at UPS) on Tuesday morning. I don't dispute it was scanned in at 7:10 PM, but if it was provided to UPS Monday evening, then they waited all day to pack and ship it. That's unfortunate, but that's ultimately a UPS logistics issue. 

 

I don't like the way James handled this, but accepted my responsibility. I understand part of his frustration and owned up to my part. I've mentioned that I’ve agreed to take the head at my cost here and to James personally. I’d love to be done with this. @James Ng what do you say?

 

Again you’re blaming UPS.  Your driver head was taken to the UPS STORE not UPS on Monday night after the pickup deadline, it was packed by the employees in the UPS STORE as indicated by the receipt you provided.  Nobody waited to pack and ship anything until the next day as you’re trying to claim.  A label can’t be created until all box dimensions and weight are known, so the label was created Monday night after it was packed.  It then sat overnight Monday at the UPS STORE because of the missed pickup deadline and was picked up Tuesday by UPS at 7:10.  Had you shipped the head yourself you would know all this…..

[jblough99]

@James Ng

 

When do you plan on going to your pickup point and refusing the delivery so this can all come to an end?

[dcmidnight]

Pulling the significant amount of nonsense aside.

 

I have done almost 1,000 transactions between here and ebay. If I had an absolute, unassailable deadline for something - and thats happened a couple of times - I would always get it cleared up before purchase. 

 

Otherwise, if I bought something on Sunday night and it was in shippers hands Tuesday night, I would have absolutely zero problem with that. Monday would be nice, Tuesday is  *more than reasonable*.

[Pnwpingi210]

34 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Pulling the significant amount of nonsense aside.

 

I have done almost 1,000 transactions between here and ebay. If I had an absolute, unassailable deadline for something - and thats happened a couple of times - I would always get it cleared up before purchase. 

 

Otherwise, if I bought something on Sunday night and it was in shippers hands Tuesday night, I would have absolutely zero problem with that. Monday would be nice, Tuesday is  *more than reasonable*.

Generally I would agree in with this.

 

in this case the seller communicated Monday morning, which should be early enough it hits just about ups stores Monday pickup cut off time.  In this case they missed the mark and dropped it off in the evening, effectively making the package a day late.

agree the buyer could have specified they need it by Friday and they didn’t, likely thinking the seller already promised the Monday drop off which should have been fine.  also poor.

 

which makes this poor all around.  Nothing in this thread absolves anyone of anything and it seems to just a bit of theatre now

 

[weems]

I’ve read through the thread and back through the correspondence a few times, and everyone keeps mentioning the seller agreed to ship it Monday morning. For the life of me I can’t see where he agreed to ship it in the morning. If he dropped it off at the ups store Monday evening, it’s still Monday. 
 

additionally, I would do business with this seller. Maybe I’m just a little more laid back than most of you. But if I get what I paid for, in the condition it was described I don’t care who had it, shipped it, whatever. 
 

The buyer comes off as smug, demanding, and just unreasonable. 

[ilikegolf26]

9 hours ago, LafertyDaniel said:

Also, can you tell me where on this receipt it says the order was received at 7:09? It says "in store and packed" and I provided you the tracking number on the evening of Monday, May 19th? As I mentioned far earlier in this thread, it missed the shipping window for Monday, and went out Tuesday. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills trying to explain this over and over again.

You can get a tracking number before you drop a package off. 
 

Doesn’t the receipt from the UPS Store have a timestamp of when it was dropped off?

 

 

Not sure why @James Ng is so incensed about when it was actually shipped though. It says expected delivery of Friday which is before he needed it Saturday. If someone pays extra for expedited shipping to get it there on time I don’t care what day they actually dropped the package off. 

Edited May 28 by ilikegolf26

[Red4282]

One thing Im curious about. Seller keeps saying he wont refund until he receives the head and its in the same condition. That doesn't seem right? Refund should happen on refusal? The condition thing is weird too because he wasnt even the last person who had possession of it (friend), so how does he even know? If UPS damages it, then file an insurance claim, bc surely you bought insurance.

[weems]

Just now, Red4282 said:

One thing Im curious about. Seller keeps saying he wont refund until he receives the head and its in the same condition. That doesn't seem right? Refund should happen on refusal? The condition thing is weird too because he wasnt even the last person who had possession of it (friend), so how does he even know? If UPS damages it, then file an insurance claim, bc surely you bought insurance.

He amended that and emailed the seller stating he would refund on refusal. 

[bcjim]

25 minutes ago, weems said:

I’ve read through the thread and back through the correspondence a few times, and everyone keeps mentioning the seller agreed to ship it Monday morning. For the life of me I can’t see where he agreed to ship it in the morning. If he dropped it off at the ups store Monday evening, it’s still Monday. 
 

additionally, I would do business with this seller. Maybe I’m just a little more laid back than most of you. But if I get what I paid for, in the condition it was described I don’t care who had it, shipped it, whatever. 
 

The buyer comes off as smug, demanding, and just unreasonable. 

Exactly.  If you get what you paid for in a typical, traditional, or agreed to timeframe, you should keep it and not try to back out based on some utter minutia.  

 

[ilikegolf26]

14 minutes ago, weems said:

He amended that and emailed the seller stating he would refund on refusal. 

This. And I guess the UPS location “5 minute walk from my house” is no longer so short  when it’s not something the seller needs. 
 

Why don’t you go refuse the delivery @James Ng and be done with this? YOU seem to be the one dragging this out when the ball is 100% in your court and your court only right now. 

Edited May 28 by ilikegolf26

[1mcozik]

Good lord, is it hard to communicate needs before a purchase and during the shipping phase? Please use ChatGPT to help if its that hard.

Hey I'm going to ship on Monday Morning. 

Hey my fault, I couldn't get it dropped off til later on Monday so likely won't get shipped out until Tuesday.

 

Hey I need the head before Friday, can you check if any shipping can get here Thursday? I can pay for quicker shipping if available.

 

jfc

Edited May 28 by 1mcozik

[Yanki01]

Austin to Rhode Island via UPS - buyer would be lucky it would get there in 5 business days.

 

Monday morning to Monday night - not much of a big deal since the seller said "Monday". I don't see where he indicated AM or PM. I don't see in communication where the buyer needed it by a certain day. If so, I'd expect the buyer to pay for 2day or overnight shipping (this isn't amazon). I'm not sure of the ad but if there's no cover listed - no big deal. It's a bonus if it comes with one.

 

Is this the buyers first purchase, ever? shipping companies are horrible when updating online tracking. 

 

Life happens. Another thing, don't let your friends be in charge of shipping items. Sounds like buyers remorse. 

[jacob7071]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

One thing Im curious about. Seller keeps saying he wont refund until he receives the head and its in the same condition. That doesn't seem right? Refund should happen on refusal? The condition thing is weird too because he wasnt even the last person who had possession of it (friend), so how does he even know? If UPS damages it, then file an insurance claim, bc surely you bought insurance.

Unless the buyer chooses the shipper and pays for shipping, the seller's responsibility is to deliver the item in the condition described in the ad at the location the buyer chooses (most of the time, buyer's home; sometimes work; in this case, the UPS store close to the buyer's house).  At that point, ownership changes hands.  The seller can, but is not obligated to, offer a refund if the buyer refuses to pick it up.  Imagine a scenario where the buyer buys a club for $380, and before it's delivered, he sees the same club on FB Marketplace for $330.  Can he simply refuse to accept the first club and force the seller to refund (and eat the paypal and shipping fees)?  If the seller offers to refund, it's certainly reasonable to withhold that refund until he receives the club back.  

[weems]

41 minutes ago, Yanki01 said:

Austin to Rhode Island via UPS - buyer would be lucky it would get there in 5 business days.

 

Monday morning to Monday night - not much of a big deal since the seller said "Monday". I don't see where he indicated AM or PM. I don't see in communication where the buyer needed it by a certain day. If so, I'd expect the buyer to pay for 2day or overnight shipping (this isn't amazon). I'm not sure of the ad but if there's no cover listed - no big deal. It's a bonus if it comes with one.

 

Is this the buyers first purchase, ever? shipping companies are horrible when updating online tracking. 

 

Life happens. Another thing, don't let your friends be in charge of shipping items. Sounds like buyers remorse. 

Agreed.  Sounds like total buyers remorse.  And it seems like the buyer read through the thread and then piggy backed off of all of the other small details others stated.  I see nothing wrong with what the seller did.  I bought a putter here recently that took 28 days to get to me, by the time it got to me I had already picked up the same putter locally.  Did I attack the seller for his choice of shipping companies and taking 2/3 days to get it out?  Of course not.  This is a peer to peer buying experience and of course I want my stuff as soon as I can, but I can't be unreasonable about it.  In my opinion, the buyer doesn't have a case and is lucky that the seller is gracious enough to refund him.  He got what he paid for, in a reasonable timeframe and (hopefully) in the condition as described.  Closed case.

[MickeyTankBank]

2 hours ago, weems said:

I’ve read through the thread and back through the correspondence a few times, and everyone keeps mentioning the seller agreed to ship it Monday morning. For the life of me I can’t see where he agreed to ship it in the morning. If he dropped it off at the ups store Monday evening, it’s still Monday. 
 

additionally, I would do business with this seller. Maybe I’m just a little more laid back than most of you. But if I get what I paid for, in the condition it was described I don’t care who had it, shipped it, whatever. 
 

The buyer comes off as smug, demanding, and just unreasonable. 

 

50 minutes ago, Yanki01 said:

Austin to Rhode Island via UPS - buyer would be lucky it would get there in 5 business days.

 

Monday morning to Monday night - not much of a big deal since the seller said "Monday". I don't see where he indicated AM or PM. I don't see in communication where the buyer needed it by a certain day. If so, I'd expect the buyer to pay for 2day or overnight shipping (this isn't amazon). I'm not sure of the ad but if there's no cover listed - no big deal. It's a bonus if it comes with one.

 

Is this the buyers first purchase, ever? shipping companies are horrible when updating online tracking. 

 

Life happens. Another thing, don't let your friends be in charge of shipping items. Sounds like buyers remorse. 

 

Did no one read the OP? It's literally in bold in the original post:

 

"I acknowledge that I set an expectation for Monday morning"

 

And in the paragraph right before that: "I told him I would ship it Monday morning"

 

 

Edited May 28 by MickeyTankBank

[Yanki01]

6 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

 

Did no one read the OP? It's literally in bold in the original post:

 

"I acknowledge that I set an expectation for Monday morning"

 

And in the paragraph right before that: "I told him I would ship it Monday morning"

 

 

 

I see what the OP said...I'm reading the PM communication and nothing specifies Monday AM. 

[MickeyTankBank]

2 minutes ago, Yanki01 said:

 

I see what the OP said...I'm reading the PM communication and nothing specifies Monday AM. 

 

I'm just telling you where he said it. He mentioned it twice in just his OP. 

[Yanki01]

4 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

 

I'm just telling you where he said it. He mentioned it twice in just his OP. 

yes I see that. though it doesn't look like he promised AM or PM in their private messaging unless there's other messages missing somewhere. if someone is telling me they'll drop it off Monday - it's Monday. Doesn't matter if it's AM or PM. IDK how the buyer got that the seller promised AM drop-off. I don't see that in their communication.

 

Though I feel as buyers sometimes think items should be shipped like Amazon packages and have high expectations to delivery times.

[MickeyTankBank]

Just now, Yanki01 said:

yes I see that. though it doesn't look like he promised AM or PM in their private messaging unless there's other messages missing somewhere. if someone is telling me they'll drop it off Monday - it's Monday. Doesn't matter if it's AM or PM. IDK how the buyer got that the seller promised AM drop-off. I don't see that in their communication.

 

Though I feel as buyers sometimes think items should be shipped like Amazon packages and have high expectations to delivery times.

 

Ok. Not sure why you're defending the seller against their own words though.

[dcmidnight]

15 minutes ago, MickeyTankBank said:

I'm just telling you where he said it. He mentioned it twice in just his OP. 

 

You're doing your best to cloud the issue I think. In the original DMs, seller said he would shoot for Monday, said Monday again then said Monday AM - it ended up being Monday PM after the dropoff.

 

At no time did the buyer specify a demand or requirement on timeframe. At all.

Again, all the other fluff taken out - so what. I cant tell you how often this happens. Buyer said OK the entire time, never once mentioned a requirement until days later. Buyer then says he "asked for Monday AM" - which I simply dont see.

 

Plus I still dont understand if he was so disgusted by allegedly not having it for an event Fri/Sat - why did he approach me on Monday to buy mine?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Yanki01 said:

Though I feel as buyers sometimes think items should be shipped like Amazon packages and have high expectations to delivery times.

This.

 

And with that, my interest in this has concluded.

 

Edited May 28 by dcmidnight