Swingweight: confusion?

[Excelsior75]

20 hours ago, RickyBubbs said:

Got it. I'm also glad you are representing everyone with an opinion with your royal "we". I remember there was a vote regarding that, and I'm happy you are upholding your end of the deal 😂.

@Excelsior75 There's your answer, you suck with both sets, no need for any more comments or data. Case finished. Dump both sets and go get a fitting from Howard. 

😄

[Howard_Jones]

21 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

So far, only the Titleist 710MB
Clubheads
3-iron: 240g
4-iron: 245g
5-iron: 250g
6-iron: 256g
7-iron: 267g
8-iron: 271g
9-iron: 276g
PW:  n/a
Shafts
3-iron:  125g / 37.00” (94cm)
4-iron:  124g / 37.16” (92.5cm)
5-iron:  123g / 36.61” (93cm)
6-iron:  120g / 36.02” (91.5cm)
7-iron:  115g / 35.43” (90cm)
8-iron:  113g / 34.84” (88.5cm)
9-iron:  110g / 34.25” (87cm)
 

 

The shafts looks like PX Flighted, not the standard model, so look for that name on the labels

 

Silkscreen codes on the butt shall then be 6862TT for 6.0 Flighted taper tip.

 

HEAD wgt looks off by more than normal, and without tip weights, it can explain the spread on SW values.

Edited June 6 by Howard_Jones

[Excelsior75]

21 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

The shafts looks like PX Flighted, not the standard model, so look for that name on the labels

 

Silkscreen codes on the butt shall then be 6862TT for 6.0 Flighted taper tip.

 

HEAD wgt looks off by more than normal, and without tip weights, it can explain the spread on SW values.

1 - Flighted
2 - No sign of any codes
3 - So, this cannot be seen as reputable:
 

Edited June 6 by Excelsior75

[Howard_Jones]

4 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

1 - Flighted
2 - No sign of any codes
3 - So, this cannot be seen as reputable:
 

 

PX Flighted is really a mix of 3 different flexes to make the long end high launch, and the low end lower launch than standard. They are NOT identical, but a set of 6.0 F looks close to this.

 

Long end is soft stepped 6.5

MID shafts is 6.0

Short end is hard stepped 5.5

 

Thats why they become descending wgt instead of constant wgt like the standard model is.

 

2 grams off on the #6 is within normal tolerances, but we always need tip weights to make them right, so if you draw a slope with 7 grams both ways from the #6 iron, you will see the need for tip weights as a starting point during dry fit.

[Excelsior75]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

PX Flighted is really a mix of 3 different flexes to make the long end high launch, and the low end lower launch than standard. They are NOT identical, but a set of 6.0 F looks close to this.

 

Long end is soft stepped 6.5

MID shafts is 6.0

Short end is hard stepped 5.5

 

Thats why they become descending wgt instead of constant wgt like the standard model is.

 

2 grams off on the #6 is within normal tolerances, but we always need tip weights to make them right, so if you draw a slope with 7 grams both ways from the #6 iron, you will see the need for tip weights as a starting point during dry fit.

Would soft-stepping be a viable change to this set?

[Howard_Jones]

6 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

Ville soft-stepping være en brukbar endring i dette settet?

 

What would you like to achive by that?

- sure it can be done if it was to make then 0.5" longer, the effect would be a flex closer to 5.5 and even higher launching all over, and no shafts to use for the longest club, but if thats ok, it no other worries really.

Edited June 6 by Howard_Jones

[Excelsior75]

30 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

What would you like to achive by that?

- sure it can be done if it was to make then 0.5" longer, the effect would be even higher launching all over, and no shafts to use for the longest club, but if thats ok, it no other worries really.

Well, I just put the 4, 5, 6 and 7 iron shafts in the next clubhead up, tested on scale and and sw´s are now  D4.6, D4.1, D4, D4.7 - I can live with that.
Just need a replacement 3-iron shaft and we´re off to the races!

[Howard_Jones]

11 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

Well, I just put the 4, 5, 6 and 7 iron shafts in the next clubhead up, tested on scale and and sw´s are now  D4.6, D4.1, D4, D4.7 - I can live with that.
Just need a replacement 3-iron shaft and we´re off to the races!

 

Was you located in UK?

The model is out of production years ago, but some shops still have them, at least their webpage say so.

 

https://progolfproducts.co.uk/product/new-individual-project-x-flighted-steel-iron-shafts-choose-club-flex-tip-size/

 

Get a roll of lead tape to fine tune them, it will not hurt.

 

Edited June 6 by Howard_Jones

[Excelsior75]

21 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Was you located in UK?

The model is out of production years ago, but some shops still have them, at least their webpage say so.

 

https://progolfproducts.co.uk/product/new-individual-project-x-flighted-steel-iron-shafts-choose-club-flex-tip-size/

 

Get a roll of lead tape to fine tune them, it will not hurt.

 

Great - I was considering complete shaft replacements and so I will look into that.

At the end of the day, Im not overly critical about this, its just really interesting to see what changes occur when experimenting with shafts/clubheads/swingweights, etc

 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Excelsior75 said:

Great - I was considering complete shaft replacements and so I will look into that.

At the end of the day, Im not overly critical about this, its just really interesting to see what changes occur when experimenting with shafts/clubheads/swingweights, etc

 

 

Just remember its a #2 iron shaft you need now for the set you have.

(41.50" uncut lenght, so they come 0.5 longer than standard PX, and a full inch longer than a DG #2 iron shaft)

 

 

Edited June 6 by Howard_Jones

[Excelsior75]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Just remember its a #2 iron shaft you need now for the set you have.

(41.50" uncut lenght, so they come 0.5 longer than standard PX, and a full inch longer than a DG #2 iron shaft)

 

 

Yes - thanks.
2-iron shaft - cut down to 37.2"/94.5cm, to match the descending/ascending length difference throughout the set, right?
(or just play 4-PW...or just buy a new set of 6.0 or 6.5 shafts and take the $$$  hit)

Edited June 6 by Excelsior75

[Excelsior75]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

PX Flighted is really a mix of 3 different flexes to make the long end high launch, and the low end lower launch than standard. They are NOT identical, but a set of 6.0 F looks close to this.

 

Long end is soft stepped 6.5

MID shafts is 6.0

Short end is hard stepped 5.5

 

Thats why they become descending wgt instead of constant wgt like the standard model is.

 

2 grams off on the #6 is within normal tolerances, but we always need tip weights to make them right, so if you draw a slope with 7 grams both ways from the #6 iron, you will see the need for tip weights as a starting point during dry fit.

So, generally, the set would be as follows:
2-iron to 4-iron: soft stepped 6.5
5-iron to 7-iron: 6.0
8-iron to PW: hard-steppned 5.5

So, my set moving forward, Im guessing, will become:
2-iron to 4-iron: soft stepped 6.0
5-iron to 7-iron: 5.5
8-iron to PW: hard-stepped 5.0

Or have I got this mixed-up?

[Excelsior75]

Also, if my current 6.0 Flighted shafts have been trimmed  between 3.45” - 4.00” from the original raw lengths, what does that make them, flex-wise?

[Howard_Jones]

7 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

So, generally, the set would be as follows:
2-iron to 4-iron: soft stepped 6.5
5-iron to 7-iron: 6.0
8-iron to PW: hard-steppned 5.5

So, my set moving forward, Im guessing, will become:
2-iron to 4-iron: soft stepped 6.0
5-iron to 7-iron: 5.5
8-iron to PW: hard-stepped 5.0

Or have I got this mixed-up?

 

I expect the set you had to be "strait in" with #3 as the longest club.

 

Now you soft stepped them 1x, by moving the #3 shaft to the #4 head.

 

You now need a new shaft for the #3 head, and soft stepped 1x will then be a #2 shaft.

 

When i explained how Flighted sets is made, its just the consept behind, since PX made the Flighted model from a different shaft than just using the standard version, and mix them like that.

 

If we say 1 flex class. Here 6.0 to 7.0 is 10 CPM on the butt, and 6.0 to 6.5 is 5 CPM. Where hard or soft stepping moves butt CPM with 5 CPM, it becomes more visible whats happening.

 

6.5 long irons SS1 will soften flex by 5 CPM to 6.0, but now with 0.5 longer tip section vs standard = 6.0 high launch

 

In the short end the oppisite. By hardstepping a 5.5 shaft, flex becomes 6.0, but now with 0.5 shorter tip section than a standard 6.0 = 6.0 low launch

 

Over all, the flex is 6.0 for all, but the tip section is eiter longer or shorter than standard 6.0 to alter flight patten.

 

YOUR SET will drop down below 5.5 as over all flex, since you both soft stepped 1x, and you go 0.5 longer who adds 3 SWP by that, so flex label becomes "PX 5.2" Now with very high launch long irons, high launch mid irons, and standard flight short irons (compared to the standard PX model)

 

I know that looks "soft" but do not worry much about that. PX labels dont tell the whole truth, so actual flex will be about the area of DG S200 or DG S300, but in a different weight and flight pattern.

 

If you was the player where DG took less power to load (quiker transition needed on PX), they will no longer behave like that, but feel easier to load to make them to work and feel right.

 

if they felel good, but ballflight becomes higher than you like them to be, you can simply bend lofts 1 stronger to take them down again.

[Howard_Jones]

7 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

Also, if my current 6.0 Flighted shafts have been trimmed  between 3.45” - 4.00” from the original raw lengths, what does that make them, flex-wise?

 

 

If its butt trim, no change on PX

the butt section on PX models follow the designed flex slope. a RIFLE FCM would go softer when we shorten, and stiffer when we go longer , while DG is slightly stronger when going longer or softer when shortening butt vs standard play lengths.

 

If extensions is used, i cant tell since it vary from model to model, and depends on how much we extend them. The extensions i used for steel shaft was like a DG butt end, and if the same was used in this set, the change will be very small, and nothing to wory about.

[Excelsior75]

34 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

I expect the set you had to be "strait in" with #3 as the longest club.

 

Now you soft stepped them 1x, by moving the #3 shaft to the #4 head.

 

You now need a new shaft for the #3 head, and soft stepped 1x will then be a #2 shaft.

 

When i explained how Flighted sets is made, its just the consept behind, since PX made the Flighted model from a different shaft than just using the standard version, and mix them like that.

 

If we say 1 flex class. Here 6.0 to 7.0 is 10 CPM on the butt, and 6.0 to 6.5 is 5 CPM. Where hard or soft stepping moves butt CPM with 5 CPM, it becomes more visible whats happening.

 

6.5 long irons SS1 will soften flex by 5 CPM to 6.0, but now with 0.5 longer tip section vs standard = 6.0 high launch

 

In the short end the oppisite. By hardstepping a 5.5 shaft, flex becomes 6.0, but now with 0.5 shorter tip section than a standard 6.0 = 6.0 low launch

 

Over all, the flex is 6.0 for all, but the tip section is eiter longer or shorter than standard 6.0 to alter flight patten.

 

YOUR SET will drop down below 5.5 as over all flex, since you both soft stepped 1x, and you go 0.5 longer who adds 3 SWP by that, so flex label becomes "PX 5.2" Now with very high launch long irons, high launch mid irons, and standard flight short irons (compared to the standard PX model)

 

I know that looks "soft" but do not worry much about that. PX labels dont tell the whole truth, so actual flex will be about the area of DG S200 or DG S300, but in a different weight and flight pattern.

 

If you was the player where DG took less power to load (quiker transition needed on PX), they will no longer behave like that, but feel easier to load to make them to work and feel right.

 

if they felel good, but ballflight becomes higher than you like them to be, you can simply bend lofts 1 stronger to take them down again.

Fascinating.

What about, if I soft-stepped the set and didn´t add the 0.6” / 1.5cm extenders into the shaft butt-ends?
Would that keep the flex more 5.5-6.0-ish, but likewise, reduce the SW 2-3pts?
 

Edited June 6 by Excelsior75

[Howard_Jones]

39 minutes ago, Excelsior75 said:

Fascinating.

What about, if I soft-stepped the set and didn´t add the 0.6” / 1.5cm extenders into the shaft butt-ends?
Would that keep the flex more 5.5-6.0-ish, but likewise, reduce the SW 2-3pts?
 

 

The difference 3 CPM is why 5.5 becomes 5.2, and if the Robot Iron Byron compared those clubs, apex would be 1 feet higher for each CPM in sum 3 feets or 1 yard...no big deal, and since its only a potential for more loft due to a sligtly softer shaft, and the ball has no clue wher loft came from, we "can fool the ball" by bending loft 1.0 stronger, and eliminate the extra loft the shaft delivered. Play lenght is the most important specs of them all, so we should never make "comprimizes" on PL, when we can alter either head wgt (hosel drilling to remove weight to avoid a higher SW) or loft to get ball flight as wanted. Both PL and feel of head wgt and by that, a good impact pattern is priority #, Feel of flex and profile further down, and lofts somthing we adjust as last stage of it all, so everything becomes "just right".

[Excelsior75]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

The difference 3 CPM is why 5.5 becomes 5.2, and if the Robot Iron Byron compared those clubs, apex would be 1 feet higher for each CPM in sum 3 feets or 1 yard...no big deal, and since its only a potential for more loft due to a sligtly softer shaft, and the ball has no clue wher loft came from, we "can fool the ball" by bending loft 1.0 stronger, and eliminate the extra loft the shaft delivered. Play lenght is the most important specs of them all, so we should never make "comprimizes" on PL, when we can alter either head wgt (hosel drilling to remove weight to avoid a higher SW) or loft to get ball flight as wanted. Both PL and feel of head wgt and by that, a good impact pattern is priority #, Feel of flex and profile further down, and lofts somthing we adjust as last stage of it all, so everything becomes "just right".

I only asked that because, I had these 0.6” / 1.5cm shaft-extenders inserted for my height/arm-length.

So, now, if I soft-step shafts, Im now going to be an additional  0.6” / 1.5cm longer/extra than I was before...given that´s the difference between the shafts.