I built the perfect 6 iron (for me). How do I build out the rest of the set?

[sirphilliam]

I just started going down the club building rabbit hole. Now I've never done any club building besides slipping on an occasional grip here and there, but I was very curious so I bought a shaft extractor, a swing weight scale, a mini torch, epoxy, tip weights, and all the equipment to do a hobbyist build. Long story short, I bought an old GC2/hmt launch monitor and found out my current setup is not ideal from a dispersion point of view. I started testing a lot of the 6 irons I had in the basement with various shafts and found out that my dispersion was much better with a heavier shaft. A lot of people mentioned liking X100 OG soft stepped once. I also figure I'd buy a DG x100 120g 6 iron shaft and compare the X100 OG SS. To my surprise, I liked the feeling of OG much better than the 120g version. Results in my gc2/hmt were tighter with the DG X100 SS. 

 

I built this 6 iron with these specs and something about the heft, the balance, the look. It all feels really good. When I address the ball, the club just feels right. Gives me a feeling of confidence to swing hard, controlled, and even to shape shots. I'm just surprised because I'm coming from Axiom 105 stiff shafts and I've never been in 130g X shafts. 

 

Here are the 6 iron specs - 

- Titleist 620cb head (259g)

- X100 Tour Issue soft stepped once (5 iron shaft)

- Playing length of 37 inches (half an inch cut down)

- 3g brass tip weight 

- Total weight : 437.6g

- Balance : D1.5

 

The rest of my shafts are coming in today, so how would I go about maintaining this similar feel that I have obtained in the 6 iron? I read through some posts and Howard mentions building out the longest iron and the shortest iron and then creating a slope between them, but I'm not entirely sure what that means. I also read that many people here have success with the 3/8 MOI builds. If I did that, it would look like something below? 

 

PW - standard length - d2.165

9i - 1/8 cut down - d1.99875

8i - 2/8 cut down - d1.8325

7i - 3/8 cut down - d1.66625

6i - 4/8 cut down - d1.5 - (437.6g)

5i - 5/8 cut down - d1.33375

4i - 6/8 cut down - d1.1675

 

problem is my swingweight scale isn't precise enough to get these exact measurements. I bought the V line swingweight scale from Golfworks. Appreciate any input and insight from the pros here! This will be the first set that I'm building. 

 

Edited June 2 by sirphilliam

[Stuart_G]

28 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

The rest of my shafts are coming in today, so how would I go about maintaining this similar feel that I have obtained in the 6 iron? I read through some posts and Howard mentions building out the longest iron and the shortest iron and then creating a slope between them, but I'm not entirely sure what that means. 

 

The short answer is that it means do the same thing with your PW that you did with your 6i.

 

You can simplify it a bit by using lead tape instead of actually switching out different shafts or heads to play with, different shaft weights or swing weights, and choking up to play with different playing lengths.  Start with the same shaft model for the stiffness profile but after you get the weight down, you can do further experimentation to tweak that stiffness profile/feel.

 

Edited June 2 by Stuart_G

[driveandputtmachine]

11 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

I just started going down the club building rabbit hole. Now I've never done any club building besides slipping on an occasional grip here and there, but I was very curious so I bought a shaft extractor, a swing weight scale, a mini torch, epoxy, tip weights, and all the equipment to do a hobbyist build. Long story short, I bought an old GC2/hmt launch monitor and found out my current setup is not ideal from a dispersion point of view. I started testing a lot of the 6 irons I had in the basement with various shafts and found out that my dispersion was much better with a heavier shaft. A lot of people mentioned liking X100 OG soft stepped once. I also figure I'd buy a DG x100 120g 6 iron shaft and compare the X100 OG SS to the X100 120g. To my surprise, I liked the feeling of OG much better than the 120g version. Results in my gc2/hmt were tighter with the DG X100 SS. 

 

I built this 6 iron with these specs and something about the heft, the balance, the look. It all feels really good. When I address the ball, the club just feels right. Gives me a feeling of confidence to swing hard, controlled, and even to shape shots. I'm just surprised because I'm coming from Axiom 105 stiff shafts and I've never been in 130g X shafts. 

 

Here are the 6 iron specs - 

- Titleist 620cb head (259g)

- X100 Tour Issue soft stepped once (5 iron shaft)

- Playing length of 37 inches (half an inch cut down)

- 3g brass tip weight 

- Total weight : 437.6g

- Balance : D1.5

 

The rest of my shafts are coming in today, so how would I go about maintaining this similar feel that I have obtained in the 6 iron? I read through some posts and Howard mentions building out the longest iron and the shortest iron and then creating a slope between them, but I'm not entirely sure what that means. I also read that many people here have success with the 3/8 MOI builds. If I did that, it would look like something below? 

 

PW - standard length - d2.165

9i - 1/8 cut down - d1.99875

8i - 2/8 cut down - d1.8325

7i - 3/8 cut down - d1.66625

6i - 4/8 cut down - d1.5 - (437.6g)

5i - 5/8 cut down - d1.33375

4i - 6/8 cut down - d1.1675

 

problem is my swingweight scale isn't precise enough to get these exact measurements. I bought the V line swingweight scale from Golfworks. Appreciate any input and insight from the pros here! This will be the first set that I'm building. 

 

You can build off of one iron.  Dig through the MOI build post.  That is how I do my irons.  I have a pretty good idea of where my 6,7, or 8 iron should be.  I normally build one of those get it right, then weight out my components to get my slope from there.  I also do my 7 iron a little longer than standard and go up 3/8" and down 3/8' in my current build.

 

There are plenty on here who could just "tell" you how to do it(Stuart, Howard, etc), but learning and going through that information from Howard from start to finish really opened my mind and brought up some things I had learned from another good fitter, but had been left out of my notes when I was learning from him as he built my clubs over the years.  When he retired it was a godsend to have Howards info as a couple of builds just weren't quite right.

[Stuart_G]

24 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

I also read that many people here have success with the 3/8 MOI builds. If I did that, it would look like something below? 

 

Swing weights are not correct in your chart.

 

3/8" length increments would need 1/2 sw pt increments.

6i - d1.5.  7i - D2.0, 8i - D2.5, 9i - D3.0, etc..

 

You shouldn't have any problem accomplishing that with your scale.

 

Or you can do an poor man's MOI build with 1/2" length increments and 2/3 sw pt increments.   

 

I personally use the 1/2 sw pt increments with 1/2" length increments - somewhere in between.   But that's' me.  You have to figure out yourself what works best for you.  Hence the recommendation for separate testing for the 6i and say the PW.   Some people do best with MOI, some do best with the traditional SW matching, some might need to be someplace in between.

 

Edited June 2 by Stuart_G

[sirphilliam]

11 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Swing weights are not correct in your chart.

 

3/8" length increments would need 1/2 sw pt increments.

6i - d1.5.  7i - D2.0, 8i - D2.5, 9i - D3.0, etc..

 

You shouldn't have any problem accomplishing that with your scale.

 

Or you can do an poor man's MOI build with 1/2" length increments and 2/3 sw pt increments.   

 

I personally use the 1/2 sw pt increments with 1/2" length increments - somewhere in between.   But that's' me.  You have to figure out yourself what works best for you.  Hence the recommendation for separate testing for the 6i and say the PW.   Some people do best with MOI, some do best with the traditional SW matching, some might need to be someplace in between.

 

 

I read something about 1.33 swp per inch for 3/8 progression. So I calculated that difference based off my current 6 iron and got those values, but I clearly messed something up. This is far simpler, so I guess I'll try the PW at standard length and a balance of D3.5 for starters, and then tweak from there. I don't think I'll need much additional tip weight at all to achieve it. 

[Socrates]

39 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

I just started going down the club building rabbit hole. Now I've never done any club building besides slipping on an occasional grip here and there, but I was very curious so I bought a shaft extractor, a swing weight scale, a mini torch, epoxy, tip weights, and all the equipment to do a hobbyist build. Long story short, I bought an old GC2/hmt launch monitor and found out my current setup is not ideal from a dispersion point of view. I started testing a lot of the 6 irons I had in the basement with various shafts and found out that my dispersion was much better with a heavier shaft. A lot of people mentioned liking X100 OG soft stepped once. I also figure I'd buy a DG x100 120g 6 iron shaft and compare the X100 OG SS to the X100 120g. To my surprise, I liked the feeling of OG much better than the 120g version. Results in my gc2/hmt were tighter with the DG X100 SS. 

 

I built this 6 iron with these specs and something about the heft, the balance, the look. It all feels really good. When I address the ball, the club just feels right. Gives me a feeling of confidence to swing hard, controlled, and even to shape shots. I'm just surprised because I'm coming from Axiom 105 stiff shafts and I've never been in 130g X shafts. 

 

Here are the 6 iron specs - 

- Titleist 620cb head (259g)

- X100 Tour Issue soft stepped once (5 iron shaft)

- Playing length of 37 inches (half an inch cut down)

- 3g brass tip weight 

- Total weight : 437.6g

- Balance : D1.5

 

The rest of my shafts are coming in today, so how would I go about maintaining this similar feel that I have obtained in the 6 iron? I read through some posts and Howard mentions building out the longest iron and the shortest iron and then creating a slope between them, but I'm not entirely sure what that means. I also read that many people here have success with the 3/8 MOI builds. If I did that, it would look like something below? 

 

PW - standard length - d2.165

9i - 1/8 cut down - d1.99875

8i - 2/8 cut down - d1.8325

7i - 3/8 cut down - d1.66625

6i - 4/8 cut down - d1.5 - (437.6g)

5i - 5/8 cut down - d1.33375

4i - 6/8 cut down - d1.1675

 

problem is my swingweight scale isn't precise enough to get these exact measurements. I bought the V line swingweight scale from Golfworks. Appreciate any input and insight from the pros here! This will be the first set that I'm building. 

 

How do you know that 3/8" MOI build is what you need or want in the rest of the clubs?

 

The smart choice would be to build a shorter iron and a longer iron in both 3/8" moi and a normal build based off your 6 iron.  Yes, it may cost you some shafts, but that shouldn't be an overriding factor.

[Stuart_G]

13 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

 

I read something about 1.33 swp per inch for 3/8 progression. So I calculated that difference based off my current 6 iron and got those values, but I clearly messed something up. 

 

No worries.

 

But if you want to double check your math so see where it went wrong.  Hint - in this case it's easier to work with fractions instead of decimals.

 

4/3 pts per 1" ->   (4/3) * (1/8) = 1/6 sw pt per 1/8" length change

then multiply by 3 to get 3/6 (or 1/2) pt per 3/8" length change.

 

 

13 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

 I don't think I'll need much additional tip weight at all to achieve it. 

 

The nice thing about the 3/8" length increments for an MOI build is it is very close to what you'll get with the standard 7 gm head weight increments.   An MOI build with 1/2" length increments means you'll likely need to add progressively more weight as the clubs get shorter.

 

But that's only IF the MOI weighting works well for you.

 

Edited June 2 by Stuart_G

[sirphilliam]

23 minutes ago, Socrates said:

How do you know that 3/8" MOI build is what you need or want in the rest of the clubs?

 

The smart choice would be to build a shorter iron and a longer iron in both 3/8" moi and a normal build based off your 6 iron.  Yes, it may cost you some shafts, but that shouldn't be an overriding factor.

I don't know. Hence why I am open to exploring both builds. I'm hoping I can narrow which path I want to go after building the PW tonight. It does seem like the gold standard is doing the lead tape method with the longest and shortest clubs and not worrying too much about SW.

 

I am only 5'5" so I've always played with cut down clubs, choked up, and had my lies adjusted to 2 degrees flat.

 

** One thing I do know is that I for sure want my clubs shortened, so I didn't mind starting with a 1/2 inch cut down 6 iron. 

Edited June 2 by sirphilliam

[SAND WEDGIE]

I don’t know if this info will help you but I just finished my first 3/8” length progression set with New Level 702 heads. 
 

I used a cheap balance beam scale and didn’t really have any issue getting 1/2 swing weight points.  Next time I might just weigh out components and build without putting every club on the scale. 
 

Cut length seemed to have the most impact on getting swing weight correct. I was using a 6” chop saw for butt cuts and it’s not accurate enough. Next time I’ll cut slightly long with the chop saw and then use a bench grinder to get exact lengths. 
 

I didn’t really know if the MOI thing was for me but I really wanted 3/8” between clubs. So I built the 4 iron and PW and then went to the range 3 days in a row with a roll of lead tape. Going back and forth between clubs and adding tape until they both felt right.  Don’t measure any swing weights before or during testing to keep yourself from any preconceived ideas of what you think is right.  
 

When I was done testing they actually came out to exactly 1/2 swing weights between clubs.  So, I got the swing weight and head weight slope between 4I and PW and built the rest of the set. Might be my favorite set of irons ever. 
 

Another thing I did was all my swing weight measurements were done without grips on, just bare shafts. I use Star grips so it’s easy to blow them on and off. So all my swing weight measurements were in the E range. Then for final assembly I weighed all the clubs and grips and matched them up by weight to get the best total weight progression I could.  Then, don’t put them back on the swing weight scale because I believe that the slight variation in grip weights will throw off the scale but not my feels. 
 

[RickyBubbs]

15 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

The short answer is that it means do the same thing with your PW that you did with your 6i.

@sirphilliam Not uncommon to want a PW balanced differently than a 6-iron depending on how the golfer uses their PW. Keep that in mind. Could make more sense to match it to your other wedges, not a 6 iron. 

 

30 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

so how would I go about maintaining this similar feel that I have obtained in the 6 iron?

It's not easy to distinguish with certainty between subjective and objective evaluation of clubs. I've been asked by people to assemble a theory perfect balanced set of clubs, and then they discover they don't like it. Or they struggle to hit certain clubs because they don't realize they've been compensating for balance changes with slight swing changes. Point is, it's not as easy as saying physical theory says these are matched clubs and the golfer "feels" and agrees with that. This is why several iterations are needed to get just the right set of "matched" clubs, usually theory is the starting point then you modify based on user feedback. 

Feel is based on the mass of the club, the first moment about the wrist-c0ck axis and the second moment about the wrist-c0ck axis (what people call MOI). So, in theory, if all of these match, your clubs should feel the same. Swing weight matching using D2, D1, etc. doesn't achieve this, the variables smoothly change (hence the slope) but it's good enough for most people and most people grew up swinging clubs matched like this so there's a "comfort" aspect. One length irons can be perfectly matched clubs (if constructed correctly) which most people suck with unless they are willing to make swing changes and of course your PW is the same length as a 5 iron. 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

31 minutes ago, RickyBubbs said:

@sirphilliam Not uncommon to want a PW balanced differently than a 6-iron depending on how the golfer uses their PW. Keep that in mind.  Could make more sense to match it to your other wedges, not a 6 iron. 

 

I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't know of any one who does not use their PW first and foremost as a full swing club.   As long as the recommended PW testing is approached with that in mind, the results will be valid and it should work out just fine.

 

That's the whole point of the test that he's taking on is to find out what works best for the PW in isolation, not to match it to the 6i or any other club in the bag.  Well, other than maybe as just a starting point to the test.  And in that respect it's better to start out erring on the side of being too light and increase head weight gradually with lead tape.

 

Now that some people might want to swing weight the PW different from the rest of the set is more of an indication that they are too caught up in SW matching for the rest of the set then they probably should be.  A gradual progression is always going to be easier to manage than having a big jump in feel between two clubs.

 

Also, FYI - conceptually swing weight has nothing to do with balance so it's not really a good idea to think of it in terms of balance.

 

31 minutes ago, RickyBubbs said:

Feel is based on the mass of the club, the first moment about the wrist-c0ck axis and the second moment about the wrist-c0ck axis (what people call MOI). So, in theory, if all of these match, your clubs should feel the same. 

 

Not really.   Or really in an extremely over-simplified representation of swing mechanics.   The swing is much more complex than can be represented by a single rotational axis.   That axis itself is moving and in a non-inertial frame of reference.  So the inertial axis of rotation is almost continually moving and changing through the swing.   

 

So while I agree there are very important subjective distinctions, there are also objective difference between different individuals that can lead to completely different idea of what really is matched and what is not.

 

Edited June 2 by Stuart_G

[RickyBubbs]

39 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Not really.   Or really in an extremely over-simplified representation of swing mechanics.

I said feel is based on X. I did not say it is totally and exhaustively determined by X. I'm trying to help the guy out. What I'm not trying to do is get involved in a pedantic discussion regarding every measurable that could affect a swing with a guy on the internet. I can recommend several books if you want help diving into that subject on your own. 

 

43 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

As long as the recommended PW testing is approached with that in mind,

Thanks for agreeing, that's why I mentioned he needs to keep it in mind.

[Stuart_G]

 

23 minutes ago, RickyBubbs said:

I said feel is based on X. I did not say it is totally and exhaustively determined by X.

 

No, you just clearly implied it with your incorrect statement about what the "theory says."

 

23 minutes ago, RickyBubbs said:

What I'm not trying to do is get involved in a pedantic discussion regarding every measurable that could affect a swing with a guy on the internet.

 

You're the one that wanted to bring "theory" into the discussion.   It's over-simplifications that are the root cause of most swing weight problems as well as many other fitting problems in general,  more of it isn't going to help anyone.

 

BTW, the response wasn't just for you.  So your particular interests don't really play that big of a roll in determining what I decide to post or not.  If you don't want to get involved in it, no one is forcing you.

 

23 minutes ago, RickyBubbs said:

that's why I mentioned he needs to keep it in mind.

 

That wasn't the details of your post I was addressing.  

 

 

Edited June 2 by Stuart_G

[RickyBubbs]

43 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

It's over-simplifications that are the root cause of most swing weight problems as well as many other fitting problems in general,

No, you're confusing theory and heuristics. The issue with "fitters, club makers, coaches" is that they don't understand theory but use heuristics as a substitute which leads to bias and error. Theories are necessary if an individual wants to progress from knowledge of a subject to genuine understanding. There's nothing wrong with simplifying a theory if it can be shown to an immaterial effect on the end result. In general, it seems we will just agree to disagree, which I'm fine with. 

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, sirphilliam said:

I don't know. Hence why I am open to exploring both builds. I'm hoping I can narrow which path I want to go after building the PW tonight. It does seem like the gold standard is doing the lead tape method with the longest and shortest clubs and not worrying too much about SW.

 

I am only 5'5" so I've always played with cut down clubs, choked up, and had my lies adjusted to 2 degrees flat.

 

** One thing I do know is that I for sure want my clubs shortened, so I didn't mind starting with a 1/2 inch cut down 6 iron. 

 

Keep in mind that taper tip discreet length shafts are not designed for a 3/8" build.

 

Your safest bet, if you don't want to have to potentially buy more shafts for testing, is to stick with a traditional 1/2" increment set, based on the length and total head weight of the 6i that fits you well.  

 

Forget the swing-weight scale and just use a standard 7 or 8g head weight increment per "club" or 1/2" in length change.  I prefer an 8g increment, which produces a slight progressive swing-weight...and works well for most players with constant weight shafts.

 

Depending on what discreet shaft length you will be using for your Pw, you can decide to make it the same 1/2" increment shorter than your 9i, or go with just a 1/4" increment that a lot of sets are made with.  At that point your head weight increment would be just 4g, instead of the 8g per 1/2".

 

Another option, if you have the same discreet shaft for both your 9i and Pw, is to make them the same length....if the Pw head weight is at a point where you can match their head weights.

[sirphilliam]

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

Keep in mind that taper tip discreet length shafts are not designed for a 3/8" build.

 

 

Are any shafts designed for a 3/8" build set?

 

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

 

Forget the swing-weight scale and just use a standard 7 or 8g head weight increment per "club"

so you are saying I can play whatever cut length for my 7 iron, as long as the difference in mass is around 8grams from my 6 iron to my 7iron? And do you mean the total weight? 

 

Head weights :

 

4i - 245.2g

5i - 252.6g

6i - 259.2g

7i - 265.5g

8i - 271.3g

9i - 280.9g (for whatever reason the 9 and PW head weights were a big jump in weight difference )

PW - 286.1g 

 

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

Depending on what discreet shaft length you will be using for your Pw, you can decide to make it the same 1/2" increment shorter than your 9i, or go with just a 1/4" increment that a lot of sets are made with.  At that point your head weight increment would be just 4g, instead of the 8g per 1/2".

 

 

I ordered two 8 iron shafts for 9 and PW because I was 1x soft-stepping, but wasn't sure if that was correct. 

Edited June 2 by sirphilliam

[Cwebb]

33 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

 

Are any shafts designed for a 3/8" build set?

 

so you are saying I can play whatever cut length for my 7 iron, as long as the difference in mass is around 8grams from my 6 iron to my 7iron? And do you mean the total weight? 

 

Head weights :

 

4i - 245.2g

5i - 252.6g

6i - 259.2g

7i - 265.5g

8i - 271.3g

9i - 280.9g (for whatever reason the 9 and PW head weights were a big jump in weight difference )

PW - 286.1g 

 

 

I ordered two 8 iron shafts for 9 and PW because I was 1x soft-stepping, but wasn't sure if that was correct. 

 

Parallel tip iron shafts that are tip trimmed differently for each club, can be customized for different length increments by adjusting the tip trim.

 

Your 7i would be 1/2" less than your 6i....and your 5i would be 1/2" more.  Taper tip discreet length shafts are designed for the traditional 7g head weight progression through a set.  An 8g progression also works well, if you want a slight progressive swing-weight.

 

Did you include the 3g tip weight in the final head weight of your 6i?  If the total head weight (including tip weight) of the 6i that fits you well is 259+3: 262g, then your target 7i head weight would be 269 or 270g, whether you choose a 7g or 8g increment. 

 

4: 248 or 246g

5: 255 or 254g

6: 262g

7: 269 or 270g

8: 276 or 278g

9: 283 or 286g

 

Since you have the same discreet shaft for your Pw and 9i, I would choose a 1/4" length increment or make them the same length.  So your target head weights for the Pw would be either 286.5g or 290g at 1/4" shorter than your 9i.  If you decide to make them the same length, then the head weight would be the same as the 9i at 283 or 286g.

 

If you need to reduce head weight on any heads to get them exact, you can drill weight out of the bottom of the hosel bore

Edited June 2 by Cwebb

[sirphilliam]

25 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

Did you include the 3g tip weight in the final head weight of your 6i?  If the total head weight (including tip weight) of the 6i that fits you well is 259+3: 262g, then your target 7i head weight would be 269 or 270g, whether you choose a 7g or 8g increment. 

 

259g is the raw weight of the 6iron head, but this is all very helpful. I think I will try the 8g increment you mentioned because the slightly progressive swing weight makes sense to me. I will attempt this with the 4 and 5 irons with a traditional 1/2" difference because if I were to change my mind then I could just cut more off later. 

 

Thanks for all the input everyone. Will chime in to let y'all know how it goes when I finish up the set.  Hopefully I can bring the whole set to life-- not just the 6 iron. 

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, RickyBubbs said:

No, you're confusing theory and heuristics. The issue with "fitters, club makers, coaches" is that they don't understand theory but use heuristics as a substitute which leads to bias and error. Theories are necessary if an individual wants to progress from knowledge of a subject to genuine understanding. There's nothing wrong with simplifying a theory if it can be shown to an immaterial effect on the end result. In general, it seems we will just agree to disagree, which I'm fine with. 

 

First of all, just to be clear, I also don't have any problems with disagreements.

 

But that is not at all what I was referring to when I referenced over-simplification.  

 

The heuristic approach is the way fittings need to be - at least for now.  Who knows, that might change in the future but currently there aren't any better ways.  No it's not perfect, but currently the subjective influences (for which there are no theories) has the potential to be way more dominant than any objective application of any theory - even if there were useful theories to cover the objective aspects of fitting.   Don't get me wrong, I'm also all for advancing theories and increasing understandings - but that doesn't mean those theories are currently useful in any way in practical sense or context - even for those that do have a good understand them.

 

However, again that wasn't the focus of my previous comment. I wasn't referring to the good fitters.  I was referring mostly to the glorified sales people or even just non-fitters trying to help themselves find good fitting equipment.  In that context what I consider to be the bigger problem (admittedly to the point of being a pet peeve)  is with those that hear about certain "theories" or various scientifically based ideas (in places like these forums or youtube or casually reading), then try to use them blindly - or in contexts that they never were meant to be used or without understanding the limitations of them, or just a complete lack of understanding of the theory itself.   e.g. blindly thinking that the two clubs should feel the same just because the swing weight value is the same, or those that believe you can "fix" a club with a head that's too heavy by adding weight to the butt end of the club.

 

Take care.

 

 

Edited June 3 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

14 hours ago, sirphilliam said:

259g is the raw weight of the 6iron head, but this is all very helpful. I think I will try the 8g increment you mentioned because the slightly progressive swing weight makes sense to me. I will attempt this with the 4 and 5 irons with a traditional 1/2" difference because if I were to change my mind then I could just cut more off later. 

 

Thanks for all the input everyone. Will chime in to let y'all know how it goes when I finish up the set.  Hopefully I can bring the whole set to life-- not just the 6 iron. 

 

Just a short input...

We most often reference to the #9 as the shortest iron, but NOT because it really is, but due to the norm where the PW is only 0.25" shorter.

 

That complicate the math for head wgt slope when we use the "blind test" and tune up the longest and "shortest iron" untill they work as they should.

 

Later on, we simply half the head wgt progression from #9 to PW for sets with 4/8" between clubs.

 

So for practical reasons in this scenario, consider the #9 iron to be the shortest iron in the set, even if most of play our GW as a #11 iron.

 

Best of luck with the project, and ask any question if something is unclear, or you meet issues you dont know how to solve.

 

I know its your first set, but it sounds like your ambitions is to make it right on first attempt, and then it might be helpfull to read my suggestion for how a set of irons should be build, to emiminate/equalize tolerances as best we can make it.

 

HOW TO BLUEPRINT A SET OF IRONS.

 

We should always do loft and lie as the first, because lie angles makes a difference for both measured length and SW values.

 

This photo is from Callaway using a "reversed ruler" so we can see how Lie angles changes the measured length. (thats why its not good to cut shafts as the first step).

 

 

 

#1 - Prepare / clean / brush the hosel and make it ready for assemble, If Countersink ferrules shall be used, prepare the hosel top for that by drilling with the correct angle tool.  

 

#1 B - Measure loft and lie, and adjust if needed. Use a fishing line in a loop to fix the shaft temporary so measurements of loft and lie can be done. If you dont know what lie angles to be used, set them all to the same (standard).(stick the looped fishing line down into the hosel with both ends up and outside, then push the shaft in. Thats good enough to temporary fix the shaft to the head.)

 

#2 - Measure head weight, take notes and find the needed tip weights to get the the head weight slope you plan for (7.0 grams is flat SW in 4/8" sets). Hosel drill heads thats above head weight target.

 

#3 - Measure insert on the heel and toe side of the bore using a caliper (never measure in the center). Adjust if tolerances is above 1.0 mm both ways

 

#4 - Grind/prepare shaft tips for install (use insert specs)

 

#5 - Add tip weights to the shaft, put the heads on, and measure play length and mark it for cut using the system you want for grip cap. (measure at least twice, lift the club of the ruler, replace it and measure again, we might look at the wrong play length the first time)

 

#6 - Cut shaft on the longer side of the cut mark, grind down to target and check measurements during that grind down job several times.

 

#7 - Dry fit heads with tip weight and the ferrule attached with tape on the outside of the shaft in its correct position to your target. Fine tune by grinding down tip weights to target.

 

- DO NOT add grips, consider 9 SWP above un-gripped to be "true SW" so if your target with standard grips is D2, dryfit to E1.

 

This way it does not matter what grips we add later, and we dont fool ourself by dry fitting clubs and adjust head weight to tolerances there might be in grip weight.

 

Grip weight variables is a TOTAL weight issue, its got nothing to do with the head side of the club and thats the side we should get "right".

 

DO NOT use split grips either, we might fail and not get the grip fully seated for all who changes "play length" on the SW scale so to avoid that error, dry fit without.  

 

If your plan is to use a "special grip" like MID size or what ever, your should tune up that club during fitting without thinking of SW values and measure when done. Then rip of that grip to get a target value for dryfit without grips so your conversion factor becomes correct.

 

Dont forget to measure "grip insert" vs full length, Grip cap sizes vary even within the same company.

 

ASEMBLING THE SET

 

 #8 mix 0.5 grams of epoxy pr club, expect the net use to be 0.35 grams equal to the tape you used to hold the ferrule outside the shaft during dry fit. NEVER use epoxy to tune SW values, that epoxy WILL come loose one day and make rattles in the shaft, or for graphite, make a breaking point at the hosel top, or make later shaft changes a messy job (reuse of the shaft)

 

#9 - Add a drop of epoxy on the shaft tip, and rotate the ferrule over it so some epoxy gets between the shaft and the ferrule. (this would prevent the ferrules from climbing on the shafts).

 

 #10 - Use the actual club head WITH tip weight to push the ferrule into its position. MEASURE "tip to ferrule" and compare to insert with the caliper to make sure its full insert.

 

#11 - Add epoxy ONLY to the upper 1/3 of the hosel, then in stripes from ferrule to the shaft tip. Hold the head "upside down" and insert the shaft WITH TIP WEIGHT - UP into the head while you rotate it into position. This method should be used to prevent too much epoxy to evacuate into the shaft tip.

 

 #12 - Wipe of excessive epoxy, check shaft alignment (labels up/Down - FLO marks), and put the club to dry. AVOID to rest the shafts against a wall, it might move lie angles up to 0.5 against upright, and if countersink ferrules is used it might cause a opening between the hosel and the ferrule on the heel side (the back of the club) AFTER CLUBS IS DRIED UP.

 

#13 - Check loft and lie again, adjust if needed.

 

#14 - Measure play length, SW and Total weight ex grips. Check CPM

 

#15 - Weight sort the grips and distribute them to even out total weight progression

 

#16 - Add build up and or grip tape - The tape area is average 10.0 inches long, make sure you use the same length on all shafts - Build up only to the end, the last layer (the grip tape) long enough to close the butt end,  add grips and let dry.

 

#17 - Measure the play ready clubs total weight and SW values.

 

#18 - Clean the shafts, heads and grips - Add shaft labels if wanted - - get out there and have fun..

 

TAKE NOTES of all components from the start, what you modified and the new specs, and the final specs when the clubs is play ready. This way you have a complete repair reference. 

Edited June 3 by Howard_Jones

[BREWMASTER95060]

21 hours ago, Cwebb said:

Parallel tip iron shafts that are tip trimmed differently for each club, can be customized for different length increments by adjusting the tip trim.

 

• A lightweight design that provides the stability and consistency that is inherent in the Dynamic Gold brand.
• Bend Point: Low
• Ball Flight: High
• Swing Speed: 75-85 mph (R), 80-90 mph (S)
• Tip Trimming: #3I 0"; #4I 0.5"; #5I 1"; #6I 1.5"; #7I 2"; #8I 2.5"; #9I 3"; Wedges 3.5".

 

Item#	Shaft	Flex	Torque	Tip	Butt	Length	Weight	Par Tip	Flight
UDG95	Iron	R		0.370"	0.600"	40"	100 g	16"	High
UDG95	Iron	S		0.370"	0.600"	40"	100 g	14"	High

https://www.monarkgolf.com/true-temper-dynamic-gold-95-0.370-par-tip-steel-iron-shafts.html

[MakersMarsh3]

Are you going to hand sort the shafts and grips for weight???

At a certain point, it's going to be hard to get as precise as you want without controlling things like this

[BREWMASTER95060]

 

 

https://www.monarkgolf.com/golf-components/shafts/steel-golf-shafts/fst-steel-shaft/fst-125-steel.html
 

• Tip Trimming:
  • S-Flex: #3I 1.25"; #4I 1-7/8"; #5I 2.5"; #6I 3-1/8"; #7I 3.75"; #8I 4-3/8"; #9I & Wedge 5"
  • X-Flex: #3I 3.25"; #4I 3-7/8"; #5I 4.5"; #6I 5-1/8"; #7I 5.75"; #8I 6-3/8"; #9I & Wedge 7"

Specification

Shaft	Flex	Tip	Butt	Length	Weight	Flight
Iron	S/X	0.370"	0.600"	43"	125 g	Mid

note: 125 gram not 115 gram

 

[sirphilliam]

47 minutes ago, MakersMarsh3 said:

Are you going to hand sort the shafts and grips for weight???

At a certain point, it's going to be hard to get as precise as you want without controlling things like this

 

To be honest, I did not know the correct process for building a golf club until I read some of the things here, and it's a lot more thought and labor intensive than initially practiced. I don't think my previous clubs were built with much care when I look at the total weight. Example:

 

These were supposed to be built to D2

7 iron - 441g

8 iron - 462.5g (the 7 iron and 8 iron have a difference of over 20g)

9 iron -  454g

 

I didn't know I was supposed to calculate swing weight before putting grips on and fit to E. I dry fitted the clubs and lengths and then cut the blank shaft first, and then installed the heads, which I can see why that is problematic. Part of the reason why, is I just wanted to get straight to hitting balls and testing. But the process is really important so that things can be replicated, so I will attempt the more correct way with the 9 iron tonight. 

 

I don't have a way to measure my lie/lofts without a machine, and a bending machine seems quite expensive for a hobbyist like myself, so I may have to leave that aspect out.

 

My wife is already asking about all these golfworks and golf shaft boxes 😅

 

** shafts just came in a day late, but I'm glad they came in AFTER Howard posted here and gave me some pointers 😆

[sirphilliam]

So after some testing, I prefer the traditional 7g progression. I tried the 8g increment, but the 4 iron felt very odd to me (too light). Once I added the 2-3 grams back to the head (which would have been the difference with 7g progression), the strike improved on my monitor. When I checked on the swingweight scale it actually came out similar to the 6 iron I built. 

 

On 6/2/2025 at 4:30 PM, Cwebb said:

Taper tip discreet length shafts are designed for the traditional 7g head weight progression through a set.

 

If this is performed correctly, then will the swing weights be the same throughout the set? Right now I'm running into an issue where the mid irons and short irons are lesser on the swing weight scale, even though I've tried to maintain a 7g increment between the heads with a half inch length progression. 

Edited June 5 by sirphilliam

[Howard_Jones]

47 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

So after some testing, I prefer the traditional 7g progression. I tried the 8g increment, but the 4 iron felt very odd to me (too light). Once I added the 2-3 grams back to the head (which would have been the difference with 7g progression), the strike improved on my monitor. When I checked on the swingweight scale it actually came out similar to the 6 iron I built. 

 

 

If this is performed correctly, then will the swing weights be the same throughout the set? Right now I'm running into an issue where the mid irons and short irons are lesser on the swing weight scale, even though I've tried to maintain a 7g increment between the heads with a half inch length progression. 

 

I hope measurements is done Un-gripped?.

 

The 7 gram slope is the average...

When we go shorter (from the long end), the amount of grams goes up for 1 SWP, meaning the 7 gram slope is the starting point for dry fit only.

 

We always need fine tuning due to that, and due to tolerances in actual shaft wgt and shaft BP.

 

ITS only at 38.75" as play lenght that 1 SWP is 2.0 grams. When we get to the #9 iron (std 36.00"), 1 SWP is now 2.26 grams.

 

Its this small numbers who pulls the actual head wgt slope slightly off from 7.0 flat for 4/8" sets with the same SW value for all clubs.

 

We say 0.5" inch is 3 SWP,

In the long end heads will be sligthly less than 7 grams, since 3 SWP goes against 6 grams, while for the #9 it becomes closer to 7 grams.

 

The MOI approach has 8 grams on 4/8" sets, still only as a starting point for dryfit, then we fine tune from that to make it right.

 

Both the 7.0 and 8.0 slope will only get us close to target, from that point we need the SW scale for fine tuning by grinding down a tip wgt.

 

Also keep in mind that excact shaft cutting is close to a art form. 1/8 = 0.75 SWP and since 1/8" is right above 3 mm, we can say that plus minus 1 mm on shaft cutting becomes 0.25 SWP

 

In the long end 0.25 x 2.0 grams = 0.5 grams off on head wgt, and on the short end 0.25 * 2.26 = 0.56 grams.

 

The sum of all those "tolerances" is why 7.0 grams flat, never gets us spot on target.

Edited June 5 by Howard_Jones

[sirphilliam]

12 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

I hope measurements is done Un-gripped?.

 

Yes, no tape or grips added, and then add 9 points like you mentioned. I'm using the air compressor method for grips on and off so It's easier to test back and forth.

 

Would you recommend adding weight to all of the mid and short irons so that the swing weights match? 

[Howard_Jones]

5 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

Yes, no tape or grips added, and then add 9 points like you mentioned. I'm using the air compressor method for grips on and off so It's easier to test back and forth.

 

Would you recommend adding weight to all of the mid and short irons so that the swing weights match? 

 

Go strait to the #9 first...

You can choose the "blind test" by adding lead tape untill that club feels right and impact pattern looks good, or use the short cut, and SW scale directly, and make the SW value the same as those already done, then try it off before you make those inbetwen clubs.

Edited June 5 by Howard_Jones

[sirphilliam]

Well I finished my first set and all I can say is that it was loads of fun (my wife didn't think so). I can't wait to build my second set, but I think it will have to be in secret haha. How are the numbers? Do they seem to show any glaring issues from those with more experience? I highlighted the green rows where I hit my target length and swing weight. 

 

 

 

** I realize I actually like the idea of having optionality with swing weight. I think aiming for d2 and then giving yourself the optionality to choke up 1 or 2mm to drop it down to d1-1.5 is a very nice feature. In this set, I left the shorter clubs at the lighter swing weight as if they were already choked up. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but we will see. 

 

I learned a lot from everyone here and I'm very thankful for all the tips and pointers. I also learned a lot from the mistakes I made, but I'm satisfied with the end result for now. I think I have a pretty good idea what works for me and the blueprint that was created with this particular shaft and iron head. I do feel that my end result was more precise than my previous set of clubs (not built by me), but I did put a lot of time into it. 

 

Now from the outside looking in, it seems pretty basic, but one thing I realize is that d2 swing weight with a 105g, 115g, 120g shaft is way different than d2 swing weight with a 130g shaft. Something about this weighting (while being cut down) feels very balanced and correct for my swing. This was a revelation for me coming from 105g shafts, and seeing the data in real time made it clear to me. 

 

As Howard mentioned, cutting shafts is very much an art and this is where I messed up the most. I only hit my target length 3/7, so I need to employ a better methodology for the next time around.  I don't have a bench grinder or the sort, but maybe an electronic sander with coarse paper will do next time.  I used pipe cutters and did a little bit of grinding with a file, but I cut too short too many times. 

 

I also want to check the lofts and lies before doing all the cutting next time around as well. Now I can see why that is so important and how it affects swing weight and length. I don't have a machine so I will need to go to my local store to obtain all of those numbers beforehand. 

 

Thanks everyone! Will be taking out the set this saturday, and we will see how it fairs on the course. I'll probably have to tweak it some more. 

 

 

Edited June 6 by sirphilliam

[Howard_Jones]

19 minutes ago, sirphilliam said:

Well I finished my first set and all I can say is that it was loads of fun (my wife didn't think so). I can't wait to build my second set, but I think it will have to be in secret haha. How are the numbers? Do they seem to show any glaring issues from those with more experience? I highlighted the green rows where I hit my target length and swing weight. 

 

 

 

** I realize I actually like the idea of having optionality with swing weight. I think aiming for d2 and then giving yourself the optionality to choke up 1 or 2mm to drop it down to d1-1.5 is a very nice feature. In this set, I left the shorter clubs at the lighter swing weight as if they were already choked up. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but we will see. 

 

I learned a lot from everyone here and I'm very thankful for all the tips and pointers. I also learned a lot from the mistakes I made, but I'm satisfied with the end result for now. I think I have a pretty good idea what works for me and the blueprint that was created with this particular shaft and iron head. I do feel that my end result was more precise than my previous set of clubs (not built by me), but I did put a lot of time into it. 

 

Now from the outside looking in, it seems pretty basic, but one thing I realize is that d2 swing weight with a 105g, 115g, 120g shaft is way different than d2 swing weight with a 130g shaft. Something about this weighting (while being cut down) feels very balanced and correct for my swing. This was a revelation for me coming from 105g shafts, and seeing the data in real time made it clear to me. 

 

As Howard mentioned, cutting shafts is very much an art and this is where I messed up the most. I only hit my target length 3/7, so I need to employ a better methodology for the next time around.  I don't have a bench grinder or the sort, but maybe an electronic sander with coarse paper will do next time.  I used pipe cutters and did a little bit of grinding with a file, but I cut too short too many times. 

 

I also want to check the lofts and lies before doing all the cutting next time around as well. Now I can see why that is so important and how it affects swing weight and length. I don't have a machine so I will need to go to my local store to obtain all of those numbers beforehand. 

 

Thanks everyone! Will be taking out the set this saturday, and we will see how it fairs on the course. I'll probably have to tweak it some more. 

 

 

 

For a first time build, the errors you made should be seen as "within acceptable tolerances"

 

Yes shaft cutting is where most of us fail, thats why we say, "Measure twice, cut once"...and always try to error on the long side, so we can grind it down. We can do that using a standard hand file when we deal with steel shafts.

 

Another error we often make, is to measure PL and forget that the actual club needs a tip weight, but that error goes to the long side, and can be tuned later. The issue might be worse if we added ferrules before we attached the heads, where that small tip weight cause a opening between the hosel abd ferrule.

 

Club making should be fun and a task we enjoy, spending the needed time to prepare it all with measurements and notes before we start mixing epoxy, and what ever mistake we do, most often becomes a good experience we know how to avoid next time.

 

I dont have exel to plot all values, so im not able to see what caused the erors except from a slight error during shaft cut, and even Total wgt progression looks decent, so over all, i would say you passed the test for your first set of irons, congratulation with that.

 

PS! If one or more clubs feel a tad ligth head side (#6 and #8 maybe), use a stripe of lead tape to fix it. The others with only 0.25 swp off, is probably nothing you will be able to notice, and just as good ir better than many OEM sets is.

 

I hope they work good for you out there, and in the long run, beeing able to build your own clubs will save you some money, unless you go nuts with tools and shafts you "need to try".