Tobacco Road.. crazy....

[aumatt87]

I can completely understand the polarizing opinions but if I boil it down, the course made me want to play it again the second I finished my round. Can’t say that about a lot of courses and I think had I played it again shortly after I would have been content, but as others have said, it was surprising how much room was available on each shot that you couldn’t see the first time around. 

[grm24]

On 6/5/2025 at 10:48 AM, SheriffBooth said:

if he'd had the opportunity to proliferate the way Pete Dye did, I bet we'd have some really incredible courses, including maybe an exciting Tour stop.

At least Pebble Beach used Strantz's MPCC Shore Course for nearly 15 years in the ATT rota until it changed to an elevated event in 2024. Though it didn't get much air time.

[smashdn]

On 6/4/2025 at 8:56 PM, TNwanabe said:

That course looks HARD

It isn't actually.

 

As others have said, get a yardage book and just hit it to the right places and you will score fine.  Hubris is the enemy there.

 

If you are there on a buddy's trip playing it for the first time, scramble or play matches. Don't even worry about stroke play.

 

Many, many years ago I paid less than $50 and broke 80 for the first time ever there shooting a 78.  I laid up to spots and didn't take on too much.

Edited June 8 by smashdn

[me05501]

The modern world has enough cookie cutter golf courses. I'm glad people like Stranz come along once in a while to create unique ones. 

 

There's a tremendous variety of wacky and weird courses in the U.K. that players accept because they've been there a long time. 

 

I'm assuming if they ever had trouble keeping the tee sheet full they'd adjust the pricing. People keep lining up to play there so the price is going to go up. 

[spineshank]

21 hours ago, smashdn said:

It isn't actually.

 

As others have said, get a yardage book and just hit it to the right places and you will score fine.  Hubris is the enemy there.

 

If you are there on a buddy's trip playing it for the first time, scramble or play matches. Don't even worry about stroke play.

 

Many, many years ago I paid less than $50 and broke 80 for the first time ever there shooting a 78.  I laid up to spots and didn't take on too much.

 

You can say that about any course. I have played TR 25 times. Just because i know where to hit it, doesnt mean it pans out that way.

[ND2005]

3 minutes ago, spineshank said:

 

You can say that about any course. I have played TR 25 times. Just because i know where to hit it, doesnt mean it pans out that way.

 

Echoing others - it really isn't that hard, it is just visually intimidating for those unfamiliar with it. If you can pick a line and hit it, it plays just fine. 

 

 

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, spineshank said:

Just because i know where to hit it, doesnt mean it pans out that way.

 

You can say that about any course.

[mikedejong33]

I have played Tobacco Road 4 times, two 36 hole days coming from Canada. I love it, but I understand how some might not. It is very different, strange, gimmicky, goofy, whatever you want to call it. But I think its great. Play the proper tee box, maybe even move up 1 from where you would normally play, and its a ton of fun. Greens funnel shots to the hole, fairways often funnel drives down to landing areas. I didn't find it overly hard. But you can make birdie or double on any hole, and there is way more room out there than it looks off the tee. If I lived in the area, I could see myself maybe getting sick of it, and sticking to the more traditional courses (and there are tons of good ones in that area obviously.) But for someone travelling to this area, it is a must play to me, I haven't seen anything like it. Yeah it is too expensive now, but so are any courses in destinations worth going to really. If budget isn't the biggest issue, I would recommend anyone play it at least once, probably twice because you will know where to go the second go around.

[Pepperturbo]

Never played it, but from the images, Tobacco Road demands you know your carry yardages, no fudging either, looks fun, but challenging at the same time, yet shorter than many.  Course rating tells the story.  Next trip to the south, might have to check it out.

[TyNiles]

Played it two weeks ago - and while I enjoyed it, I wouldn't be in a hurry to go back if that makes sense? There are some really cool golf holes mixed with some really bad ones IMO. My buddies wanted to play it from the tips (do not recommend), and I was able to shoot 85 with nowhere near my best stuff, and I'm not long off the tee either. I much preferred Southern Pines as a golf course, but it was cool to check Tobacco off my bucket list. Enjoy some pics from when we were there. 

 

[sabram]

3 hours ago, TyNiles said:

There are some... really bad ones IMO

Which holes do you think are really bad and what aspects of those holes made them really bad?

[caniac6]

I played it a couple times when it was pretty new, and I don’t think I paid more than $50. Not as hard as it looks. I enjoyed it, but a couple times is enough.

[Pepperturbo]

I am always skeptical when people say a course had terrible holes or is a bad course.  It's as if they are expecting some altruistic course design that suites their psyche and game limitations.  LOL

 

I've never met a bad hole.  But I have met is a bad swing on a hole where a bad swing results in a bad outcome, and from there it depends on the golfer to reset his head, to insure he doesn't perpetuate his errors; which we've all done.  I'd say that's motivation for learning how to hit the ball where you want it to go.

 

Some holes and courses have uncommon layouts, often due to available land at inception or a slightly sinister designer.  IMO, how well we play that course then depends on our ability to adapt.  Thus, it's the course designer's intention to create a tricky situation for the golfer.  I don't see those conditions as the course's fault.  If I don't adapt, it's my fault, as are the consequences of not meeting golfs unique unknown challenges.

Edited June 10 by Pepperturbo

[Roody]

On 6/4/2025 at 8:37 PM, sabram said:

I love Tobacco Road. Click on the photo below to link to a photo tour of Tobacco Road

 

 

So I have NOT played Tobacco Road (it's on my bucket list), but I have played Mammoth Dunes. And going through your pics, it felt similar to Mammoth Dunes to me. Which I LOVED by the way. 

I really gotta get down there and play TR... I love target golf, and this sounds like it's perfect for that. 

 

[smashdn]

On 6/10/2025 at 9:01 AM, TyNiles said:

 

 

 

If I was forced to pick the bad hole out there, this is the one I would pick.  And that is unfortunate as it is the closer and I don't think anyone wants to leave a course with the last hole being the worst or weakest and have that bad taste in your mouth.

 

I think it is just a but much to ask retail golfers to thread a driver, that late in the round, between a gap ~30 yards wide, ~140 yards out from the tee.  Don't draw it as there is no room on the left but lots of room on the right.

 

That is just my opinion and if some say I am crazy I am fine with that, as overall I hold TR in pretty high regard.  If you disagree that this isn't a bad hole it is testament to the quality of TR as a whole.

[nanerman]

On 6/11/2025 at 2:35 PM, smashdn said:

 

 

If I was forced to pick the bad hole out there, this is the one I would pick.  And that is unfortunate as it is the closer and I don't think anyone wants to leave a course with the last hole being the worst or weakest and have that bad taste in your mouth.

 

I think it is just a but much to ask retail golfers to thread a driver, that late in the round, between a gap ~30 yards wide, ~140 yards out from the tee.  Don't draw it as there is no room on the left but lots of room on the right.

 

That is just my opinion and if some say I am crazy I am fine with that, as overall I hold TR in pretty high regard.  If you disagree that this isn't a bad hole it is testament to the quality of TR as a whole.

 

I would pick any of 9, 15, or 16 as the worst holes there. It's cool how completely hidden the 16 fairway is, though. 

[Bakes0]

Played it three years ago on the backend of a Pinehurst trip (#1, 2, 3 and 4). It was a really fun experience, some of the holes I didn't care for (16 and 18 stand out in memory) and some are just the most ridiculous you'll ever see in a cool way.

 

I want to go back and play it again, as with most shots when you look back and see where you end up, you're amazed at how much space there is. I'm not sure if the visual intimidation and tricks really work out on a second time around it, but It definitely needs to be experienced, it's a pretty fun track.

 

I've played other Strantz courses since then, Caledonia (incredible) and True Blue (also solid) since playing tobacco road and you can see so many of the similarities. If you're into the golf architect/course junkie stuff, it's worth the visit.

[rgk5]

On 6/5/2025 at 8:49 AM, BEND OF THE RIVER GC said:

I absolutely loved it. Awesome course and a super laid back clubhouse.

Yes, to hold 20 people. 😁

[mshills]

I played it yesterday. Definitely didn’t have the visceral love or hate reaction a lot of people seem to have on this course. Played decent, didn’t find it excessively difficult at all. Choose your tees with caution. 

 

I enjoyed it, though part of that is because it was the closer for a sweet three day golf trip with three guys I’ve been friends with for decades. It was not my favorite of the weekend (that would be Pine Needles, no question!) and I’d like to play it again, but I’d rather play courses I’ve not played before first. 
 

Reminded me somewhat of Streamsong Blue if I had to pick something similar. I didn’t find #18 a bad hole — tough approach no doubt (I missed long and right which you just cannot do…) but I don’t agree the tee ball is unreasonably blind or precise. I appreciate the collection of short par 3s — it is nice to see that a par 3 does not have to be >200 yards to be a good hole or a challenge. 

[cassel191919]

14 hours ago, mshills said:

I played it yesterday. Definitely didn’t have the visceral love or hate reaction a lot of people seem to have on this course. Played decent, didn’t find it excessively difficult at all. Choose your tees with caution. 

 

I enjoyed it, though part of that is because it was the closer for a sweet three day golf trip with three guys I’ve been friends with for decades. It was not my favorite of the weekend (that would be Pine Needles, no question!) and I’d like to play it again, but I’d rather play courses I’ve not played before first. 
 

Reminded me somewhat of Streamsong Blue if I had to pick something similar. I didn’t find #18 a bad hole — tough approach no doubt (I missed long and right which you just cannot do…) but I don’t agree the tee ball is unreasonably blind or precise. I appreciate the collection of short par 3s — it is nice to see that a par 3 does not have to be >200 yards to be a good hole or a challenge. 

Pine Needles was just special, the design was fantastic. I played it early in the season, I can't imagine how good it is in peak conditions.

[mshills]

11 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

Pine Needles was just special, the design was fantastic. I played it early in the season, I can't imagine how good it is in peak conditions.

They are scheduled to aerate greens in the next couple weeks I think, so we got it at its zenith. It’s perfect — the course, the vibe, the hilarious ladies waitressing for breakfast, just the best.

 

It was also cool to see my really good buddy put up a 68. He was locked in all weekend. 

[george49]

On 6/5/2025 at 9:08 AM, BEND OF THE RIVER GC said:

I played on a beautiful early December day for $95 back in 2007. 60 degrees the whole time. It's probably triple that now! 

I hear ya, we played  around 2012-2014 for $110. Like course but hard to pay triple the price. Lots of trouble but also lots of room out there. I recall the greens being very good also.

[SilverBullets]

I played TR in 2023 and appreciated it for what it was. It's fun, unique, quirky, etc.

 

I don't feel the need to play it again though. It was in abysmal shape when I was there in June 2023. But it does have some really fun holes and a number of holes which I think are pretty poor but people overlook them and just view it as 'ah thats just Tobacco Road' (see hole 2, 9 is AWFUL, 15 and 16 are back to back blind par 4 tee shots that are just.. meh... and then 18 just doesnt do the course justice for the finishing hole) 

[Tim_Gavrich]

No discussion of Tobacco Road is complete without some golfers trotting out terms like "gimmicky" and "tricked up" when describing it.

 

Can anyone define these terms for me? After having heard them my whole life in/around golf, I still don't know what people mean when they use them.

 

Tobacco Road is rare and precious because it is 100% unique, one-of-one. It's one of the world's greatest golf courses in large part because it elicits such passionate positive and negative reactions. In other words, it does what many great works of art do. It is a wonder of the golf world.

[Looper34]

15 hours ago, Tim_Gavrich said:

No discussion of Tobacco Road is complete without some golfers trotting out terms like "gimmicky" and "tricked up" when describing it.

 

Can anyone define these terms for me? After having heard them my whole life in/around golf, I still don't know what people mean when they use them.

 

Tobacco Road is rare and precious because it is 100% unique, one-of-one. It's one of the world's greatest golf courses in large part because it elicits such passionate positive and negative reactions. In other words, it does what many great works of art do. It is a wonder of the golf world.

I’ll take a try at it. I’ve played TR 3 times. My best score was a 77 (with loaner clubs after UA misplaced my golf bag for a couple days) but that's another story.
Like “tricked up” and “gimmicky”, “target golf” is another term to describe Tobacco Road. 
The course has some multi-contoured greens with different collection areas, requiring approaches to land at specific spot so the ball will ride the contour toward the hole. If you hit the target, there’s an excellent chance for a tap in birdie because the cup is located in the swale’s collection area. 
I’ve seen 2 weak approach shot just make the front of the green, catch the swale, roll 60 feet toward the back and both shots end up a foot away from the cup.

On one of the par 3s I remember the best target was the side of a slope, 20 feet from the green. 
There are also some forced carries where you need to get it out there but not to far because you’ll run it through the fairway into a very difficult hardpan waste area. There are also some swales and bumps in the landing areas of some of the fairways that can knock a good shot off line that you have to deal with too. Figuring out a good line off the tee takes some getting used to.

Tobacco Road is a fun course and I really don’t have a problem with the nuances except for the fact that I'd need to play it somewhat regularly to really figure it out.

For me, the $300 price point is too expensive to play it more than once in a great while.

By the time I get back there, I’m back to square one.

[SilverBullets]

On 6/22/2025 at 6:34 AM, Looper34 said:

I’ll take a try at it. I’ve played TR 3 times. My best score was a 77 (with loaner clubs after UA misplaced my golf bag for a couple days) but that's another story.
Like “tricked up” and “gimmicky”, “target golf” is another term to describe Tobacco Road. 
The course has some multi-contoured greens with different collection areas, requiring approaches to land at specific spot so the ball will ride the contour toward the hole. If you hit the target, there’s an excellent chance for a tap in birdie because the cup is located in the swale’s collection area. 
I’ve seen 2 weak approach shot just make the front of the green, catch the swale, roll 60 feet toward the back and both shots end up a foot away from the cup.

On one of the par 3s I remember the best target was the side of a slope, 20 feet from the green. 
There are also some forced carries where you need to get it out there but not to far because you’ll run it through the fairway into a very difficult hardpan waste area. There are also some swales and bumps in the landing areas of some of the fairways that can knock a good shot off line that you have to deal with too. Figuring out a good line off the tee takes some getting used to.

Tobacco Road is a fun course and I really don’t have a problem with the nuances except for the fact that I'd need to play it somewhat regularly to really figure it out.

For me, the $300 price point is too expensive to play it more than once in a great while.

By the time I get back there, I’m back to square one.

My biggest 'problem' with TR was the conditioning. I feel like the course was designed to play a certain way and that way requires good conditioning. To truly get the effect of the slopes on the green, around/infront of the greens, etc. To have the waste areas actually play like they were intended to. All of that requires a certain level of conditioning which I found TR simply didn't keep up with.

 

When I was there the greens were more shaggy than they should have been, they had a lot of completely burnt out spots in the middle of greens, and the waste areas were just hard packed clay with exposed drainage pipes running through them. 

[StudentGolfer4]

On 6/10/2025 at 3:26 PM, Roody said:

So I have NOT played Tobacco Road (it's on my bucket list), but I have played Mammoth Dunes. And going through your pics, it felt similar to Mammoth Dunes to me. Which I LOVED by the way. 

I really gotta get down there and play TR... I love target golf, and this sounds like it's perfect for that. 

 

I’d be curious to hear why you think it feels similar to mammoth? I’m not seeing it at all. Maybe just because it has blind shots? The blind shots at mammoth are so massive that you really can’t mess it up. And your ball funnels to the fairway/green on the large majority of holes out there. Target golf describes TR well. Not the case with MD

[Johnny Biarritz]

On 6/4/2025 at 3:12 PM, FOOTJOY16 said:

We just returned from Pinehurst yesterday.  Played a few of the resort courses along with Mid Pines and Pine Needles and of course the Cradle... On our next to last day we played Tobacco Road. .everyone we mentioned this to before we played just rolled their eyes.. by far the wildest course I've ever played...

 

Just curious about other peoples thoughts that have played the course...

Polarizing. I love it. Could play 36 a day for the next 10 years and not get bored. I also know guys who’d rather have a thumbnail removed with rusty fishing pliers than play it again. I think Royal New Kent is a better golf course but I think Tobacco Road is the peak of Mike Strantz design. 

[LongNwrong27]

3 hours ago, Johnny Biarritz said:

Polarizing. I love it. Could play 36 a day for the next 10 years and not get bored. I also know guys who’d rather have a thumbnail removed with rusty fishing pliers than play it again. I think Royal New Kent is a better golf course but I think Tobacco Road is the peak of Mike Strantz design. 

When is the last time you played it? 
 

I suspect many people remember the good ole days when it used to be like 75 bucks to play the course with reasonable conditioning. Now you may be paying 300 to play a goat track conditioning wise , and I do not say that lightly or commonly use that to describe a golf course. 
 

Obviously an interesting and unique design largely remains that way but I do agree the conditions severely detract from the experience and hurt the overall vision from being realized 

Edited June 24 by LongNwrong27

[mshills]

Goat track is not what I experienced two weeks ago, not even close. It isn’t like Augusta National or Quail Hollow or Muirfield Village, but it isn’t supposed to be. I like the scruff. 
 

The turf was in good shape. Torrential, Biblical rains occurred a day and a half before we played, but everything drained just fine. No washed out areas on greens or fairways and nothing was burnt.

 

The extensive waste areas are not groomed and I didn’t expect them to be, but I also never encountered exposed pipes and so forth. Maybe I wasn’t in there as much. 😁

 

Greens were beautiful — rolled true and consistent hole to hole. Speed I do not know….they were slower than my place….good thing since at our typical ~12.5 they would be near unplayable. We got them in peak condition since they will do the summer aeration next week. 

 

Critiques as follows:

We played as part of a package deal so I didn’t think too much about the individual greens fees. The whole experience was cool, but did it feel like $300+? Not really. Minimal staff, minimal facilities to get cleaned up afterwards, no ice in coolers on carts, small things. Not a big deal and I still enjoyed the place very much, but I would not race back at $350 or whatever the rack rate is. 
 

Food was lousy. We teed off at 9a….coming from Pine Needles the prior day where we savaged the breakfast buffet and omelet station, what looked like prepackaged microwave Jimmy Dean breakfast sandwiches were 👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼. Come on now, be better than that. Sort of goes along with the price point comments, the snack bar that feels like a muni is out of place.  
 

I’m on record on here many times that I dislike speed golf and the fixation on playing as fast as possible. The day we played was post thunderstorms, hot and humid. It was also Father’s Day. Suggested pace is 4:40. So, we expected and prepared for a long day. It took a little over 5:15 with a lot of waiting on the back nine. The course is not easy and you can spend some time looking for your 🌰 if you hit it crooked….but my critique is I saw no staff out there keeping the two large groups in front of us (16 players in each crew) moving and that should be table stakes. Not sure who was slow with that many players, but what we saw on the first tee box was not good. Again, I am not trying to play this course in 3:30 at prime time in June, but I also didn’t see any polite measures taken to keep things flowing. 
 

Hope this is a balanced take. Best course I’ve ever seen…..no, that is just stroking them. Goat track….no, that is pretty aggressive the other way. I’m glad we played it. I’d like to play it again but there are so many in the area I haven’t played yet I want to hit those first.