2025 Scotland - first timer father/son trip report

[hammergolf]

10 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

I've heard great things about Dumbarnie, didn't have it on the list this trip as I'm more interested in playing older Scottish courses and checking the modern courses off on later trips. 

 

That’s the problem with Scotland and Ireland. Too many great courses and not enough time…. 

[hammergolf]

10 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

 

It definitely seems like it's a lot more corporate focused with a ton of massive groups going out, and like @hammergolf said removing some of the packages that were previously an option for the other courses. TOC experience hasn't been fun so far, hopefully we get picked once in the dozen+ attempts we'll give it. Seems like the play is really just to pony up thousands to some ripoff tour operator since they probably get a ton of times allocated.

Sad but true. There has definitely been a shift away from policies and traditions that were player friendly. Not sure when or who the new leadership came into power, but it’s not like it used to be. Unfortunately St. Andrews was one of the last golf destinations that had the player’s interest in mind and had resisted the corporate model. Fortunately I’ve have been lucky enough to play TOC several times, so it’s no longer a focus on my trips although playing the reversed routing is very high on my bucket list. I truly feel sorry for those who have not been able to experience it and the already low odds have been reduced to borderline impossible. In the past the 48hr ballot success rate was around 27%, I would be interested to know what the success rate is now. If I was going to guess I would say it’s maybe single digits now.

Edited June 19 by hammergolf

[Yoshifan151]

Waitlisted again for TOC on Friday, not close enough for it to be a realistic shot. 0/11 this week on the singles and 2 day lottery. Love it. Tee time booked for Lundin tomorrow.

[hammergolf]

29 minutes ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Waitlisted again for TOC on Friday, not close enough for it to be a realistic shot. 0/11 this week on the singles and 2 day lottery. Love it. Tee time booked for Lundin tomorrow.

Sad to hear about TOC, but you’ll LOVE Lundin. Great links right on the coast. 

[jatrain]

14 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

 

It definitely seems like it's a lot more corporate focused with a ton of massive groups going out, and like @hammergolf said removing some of the packages that were previously an option for the other courses. TOC experience hasn't been fun so far, hopefully we get picked once in the dozen+ attempts we'll give it. Seems like the play is really just to pony up thousands to some ripoff tour operator since they probably get a ton of times allocated.

I had that same feeling last year (lost both ballot and single 5 days in a row), it really feels like they cater primarily to the tour operator groups.  

Chanceman is exactly right about the new system encouraging many “drop-ins” on vacation seeing if they can get a time versus people who are there primarily for the golf.  The staff told

me their rental club use was through the roof.  
 

My suggestion, and it wouldn’t be hard with the current system, would be to weight single draw entries based on the number of times you’ve unsuccessfully entered over the course of the week (or consecutive days).  That would give someone, for example has tried for four days straight and lost an advantage over someone who just dropped for a single day.  It would reset if you get out.  That would bring a little bit of the “earning it” aspect back. 

[scott_Donald]

Do you need any handicap proof for the singles?

 

my friend I was playing with yesterday is Muirfield and R and A member and he never tries to play the Old now as too busy. 

[hammergolf]

11 hours ago, TBD203 said:

Not to hijack your thread, but our schedule is as follows. I will try and post some pictures if I remember while over there!

 

6/30 - North Berwick

7/1 - Muirfield 18 standard play, lunch, then 18 alternate shot

7/2 - Castle Stuart 8:50am, and then Royal Dornoch 3:30pm

7/3 - fly to London and play Sunningdale New at 4:00pm

7/4-6 spend time with wives

7/7 - Sunningdale Old - 9am.

7/10 - Wife leaves and I play Kingsbarns 1:40pm

7/11 TOC

7/12 fly home

Great trip! Looking forward to reading about.

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, jatrain said:

I had that same feeling last year (lost both ballot and single 5 days in a row), it really feels like they cater primarily to the tour operator groups.  

Chanceman is exactly right about the new system encouraging many “drop-ins” on vacation seeing if they can get a time versus people who are there primarily for the golf.  The staff told

me their rental club use was through the roof.  
 

My suggestion, and it wouldn’t be hard with the current system, would be to weight single draw entries based on the number of times you’ve unsuccessfully entered over the course of the week (or consecutive days).  That would give someone, for example has tried for four days straight and lost an advantage over someone who just dropped for a single day.  It would reset if you get out.  That would bring a little bit of the “earning it” aspect back. 

Sad, the statement about rental club usage is testament to all that is wrong with St. Andrew’s new changes. 

[El Gringo]

It seems to me that a priority could be set for those who have played or have a booking for another Links Trust course to have priority over drop ins. Seems like if the Trust requires folks to book another course when booking the Old that the above policy is reasonable. A lot of these folks in the ballot will have also been unsuccessful booking the Old when times go live. 

[Chanceman]

9 hours ago, jatrain said:

I had that same feeling last year (lost both ballot and single 5 days in a row), it really feels like they cater primarily to the tour operator groups.  

Chanceman is exactly right about the new system encouraging many “drop-ins” on vacation seeing if they can get a time versus people who are there primarily for the golf.  The staff told

me their rental club use was through the roof.  
 

My suggestion, and it wouldn’t be hard with the current system, would be to weight single draw entries based on the number of times you’ve unsuccessfully entered over the course of the week (or consecutive days).  That would give someone, for example has tried for four days straight and lost an advantage over someone who just dropped for a single day.  It would reset if you get out.  That would bring a little bit of the “earning it” aspect back. 

Good idea but probably a bridge too far for the suits at the top.

[Chanceman]

31 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

It seems to me that a priority could be set for those who have played or have a booking for another Links Trust course to have priority over drop ins. Seems like if the Trust requires folks to book another course when booking the Old that the above policy is reasonable. A lot of these folks in the ballot will have also been unsuccessful booking the Old when times go live. 

That’s right. Surely some priority needs to be given to “real” golfers who are staying and playing in the area.

[st1800e]

9 hours ago, scott_Donald said:

Do you need any handicap proof for the singles?

Not to enter the ballot. Apparently they can ask for proof when you arrive, but I was only asked by the starter on the tee what my handicap was, 11, didn’t have to prove it.  He said “you’ll play from there” the blue tees, 6352 yds, which was what I had planned to play.  

[st1800e]

14 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Waitlisted again for TOC on Friday, not close enough for it to be a realistic shot. 0/11 this week on the singles and 2 day lottery. Love it. Tee time booked for Lundin tomorrow.

What number on the wait list are you?
There were 3 of us, we tried the 48 hour ballot twice, no luck.  I expect that the odds are really slim when balloting for 3 or 4 players.  I was lucky the first day we balloted in the singles, so I played. The other 2 no luck.   A couple days later the other 2 got a time together in the 48 hour ballot so I decided to try again in the single ballot.  I was waitlisted at #69. By 3pm I was #4, but had already gone to play the New.  Depending where you are on the wait list, it might be helpful to check early with the starter in the booth at the first tee what your chances are.  
Good luck.  

Edited June 20 by st1800e

[Yoshifan151]

3 minutes ago, st1800e said:

What number on the wait list are you?
There were 3 of us, we tried the 48 hour ballot twice, no luck.  I expect that the odds are really slim when balloting for 3 or 4 players.  I was lucky the first day we balloted in the singles, so I played. The other 2 no luck.   A couple days later the other 2 got a time together in the 48 hour ballot so I decided to try again in the single ballot.  I was waitlisted at #69. By 3pm I was #4, but had already gone to play the New.  Depending where you are on the wait list, it might be helpful to check with the starter in the booth at the first tee what your chances are.  
Good luck.  

Down to 46 from the hundreds, but I'm really not in the mood to go there and spend hours again for nothing. I may call and see what the odds are, and I know some courses are fine shifting around times to accommodate for TOC so maybe Lundin would move us to another day but idk. And thanks, I need all the luck I can get at this point it seems!

[Messma]

5 hours ago, El Gringo said:

It seems to me that a priority could be set for those who have played or have a booking for another Links Trust course to have priority over drop ins. Seems like if the Trust requires folks to book another course when booking the Old that the above policy is reasonable. A lot of these folks in the ballot will have also been unsuccessful booking the Old when times go live. 

This might be the best idea I’ve heard yet.  

[italianstallion]

On 6/18/2025 at 2:30 PM, Yoshifan151 said:

Played at St. Michaels today, super fun quirky course at a good price. We ended up getting on for $25 with a Golfnow hot deal. The front 9 starts out more exposed on a hillside with some trees and great views of the surrounding areas, with the back 9 routing through the woods with some big elevation changes. This course was playing very firm, shots would roll out for days on the fairway. The greens were very firm as well and played with a lot of rollout when hitting approaches, but on the slow side when putting. Green complexes were very fun with plenty of slopes and tiers.

Played ok today but didn't keep score. It was chilly and very windy, and I was getting torn a new one with my allergies flaring up badly. I was just trying to survive out there, so I guess it wasn't the worst thing I didn't get on TOC. I wasn't hitting it too bad considering, and I did get 3 birdies, better than the last 2 rounds together (only 1). Overall a neat course and one worth checking out if you need a budget round.

 

2 green

 

5 approach

 

6 approach

 

6 green

 

7 tee shot with 8 behind

 

8 tee shot

 

8 green

 

11 tee shot

 

15 tee shot with 16 tee behind

 

15 green and 16 tee shot

 

16 approch/green

 

17 tee shot

 

17 green

 

18 tee shot

 

Just wanted to pop in and say that this course looks absolutely fantastic, thanks for posting the pictures.

 

Best of luck with the Old Course ballot. Its been disheartening to read the stories since the changes of pure golfers like yourself getting shut out. I was able to camp out in 2023...I don't know what I'd do if I had to rely on chance. Sad times.

[Hollisticgolf]

On 6/18/2025 at 2:30 PM, Yoshifan151 said:

Played at St. Michaels today, super fun quirky course at a good price. We ended up getting on for $25 with a Golfnow hot deal. The front 9 starts out more exposed on a hillside with some trees and great views of the surrounding areas, with the back 9 routing through the woods with some big elevation changes. This course was playing very firm, shots would roll out for days on the fairway. The greens were very firm as well and played with a lot of rollout when hitting approaches, but on the slow side when putting. Green complexes were very fun with plenty of slopes and tiers.

The course looks fun, and it's a father-son trip; you're spending some quality time together. Enjoy, and will keep an eye out for the rest! Safe travels and make lots of birdies! 

[El Gringo]

7 hours ago, Chanceman said:

That’s right. Surely some priority needs to be given to “real” golfers who are staying and playing in the area.

Yes. For me it’s not so bad. I can easily enter the 48 ballot then head north if successful. But to be honest, I avoid St Andrews in the summer. 

[Yoshifan151]

Got out at Lundin on a very warm (for Scotland) day with minimal wind. Unfortunately there were 2 groups that went out a few times in front of us slowing down multiple groups, clocking in at 5 hours. Total choppers, I really wanted to unload on them in the bar afterwards but decided against it. I didn't need to waste any more time with those clowns.

The course was great! There was plenty variety even with only 3 par 3s and 2 par 5s. A good deal of the shorter par 4s are reachable but require some elite shots off the tee. 10 is a crazy hole where you play down either hole 6 or 11 fairway to a green with some nasty fortification. Hole 12 climbs up a hill and coming back along 13 and 14 gives off some amazing views of the rest of the course and the coastline. Greens were in great shape and rolled very true. This is an easy recommendation to go play at.

Finally had a good scoring round today. Off the tee was excellent, approaches were pretty good as well. Putting was a lot better with no 3 putts. I was also very consistently hitting my lines, but had around 4 that were going right at the hole but ended up a few rotations short. A lot of GIRs with 2 putts but solid birdie looks. No wind definitely played a part as well. Bad double on 7, I pulled my tee and approach then had bunker trouble. Birdied 13 and bogeyd 14, otherwise all pars. 37/36 for a solid 73. Potential for a round in the 60s was there.

 

Can't add some pics again for whatever reason on the site's side, very annoying.

 

1 tee shot

 

2 tee shot

 

3 tee shot

 

4 green/approach - water stream running through the hole at the bottom of the slope

 

5 tee shot

 

7 approach

 

7 green - stream in front as well

 

8 approach

 

10 tee shot

 

10 green complex - heavy fortification with pot bunkers surrounding the green as well

 

12 tee shot

 

View from 12 green

 

13 tee shot

 

13 approach

 

14 tee shot

 

14 green

 

15 approach

 

16 approach

 

17 tee shot

 

18 tee shot

 

18 approach

Edited June 20 by Yoshifan151

[hammergolf]

10 minutes ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Got out at Lundin on a very warm (for Scotland) day with minimal wind. Unfortunately there were 2 groups that went out a few times in front of us slowing down multiple groups, clocking in at 5 hours. Total choppers, I really wanted to unload on them in the bar afterwards but decided against it. I didn't need to waste any more time with those clowns.

The course was great! There was plenty variety even with only 3 par 3s and 2 par 5s. A good deal of the shorter par 4s are reachable but require some elite shots off the tee. 10 is a crazy hole where you play down either hole 6 or 11 fairway to a green with some nasty fortification. Hole 12 climbs up a hill and coming back along 13 and 14 gives off some amazing views of the rest of the course and the coastline. Greens were in great shape and rolled very true. This is an easy recommendation to go play at.

Finally had a good scoring round today. Off the tee was excellent, approaches were pretty good as well. Putting was a lot better with no 3 putts. I was also very consistently hitting my lines, but had around 4 that were going right at the hole but ended up a few rotations short. A lot of GIRs with 2 putts but solid birdie looks. No wind definitely played a part as well. Bad double on 7, I pulled my tee and approach then had bunker trouble. Birdied 13 and bogeyd 14, otherwise all pars. 37/36 for a solid 73. Potential for a round in the 60s was there.

 

Can't add some pics again for whatever reason on the site's side, very annoying.

 

1 tee shot

 

2 tee shot

 

3 tee shot

 

4 green/approach - water stream running through the hole at the bottom of the slope

 

5 tee shot

 

7 approach

 

7 green - stream in front as well

 

8 approach

 

10 tee shot

 

10 green complex - heavy fortification with pot bunkers surrounding the green as well

 

12 tee shot

 

View from 12 green

 

13 tee shot

 

13 approach

 

14 tee shot

 

14 green

 

15 approach

 

16 approach

 

17 tee shot

 

18 tee shot

 

18 green

Glad you enjoyed Lundin. It doesn’t get the attention it should.

Edited June 20 by hammergolf

[jatrain]

14 hours ago, El Gringo said:

It seems to me that a priority could be set for those who have played or have a booking for another Links Trust course to have priority over drop ins. Seems like if the Trust requires folks to book another course when booking the Old that the above policy is reasonable. A lot of these folks in the ballot will have also been unsuccessful booking the Old when times go live. 

Good idea, would definitely help things. 

[Yoshifan151]

Got out at Royal Dornoch today, I think that's the 2nd best golf course I've ever played, very very closely behind LACC North. Great hole variety and some seriously gnarly green complexes with tons of bunkering and really nasty slopes that will punish you hard if you even barely miss the green. Greens were very nice and rolled the best of the courses I've played so far. This was an excellent test of golf that demands some real precision, especially with some good wind like today and pins in tough spots for medal play earlier in the day.

I definitely didn't pass that test today LOL. Driver was very good, save for 1 bad drive the rest were as good as I could hit it. But with bad approach and ARG, there's only so many pars I can make. Putting was better with no 3 putts but a lot of burned edges that would've saved par. 1 birdie on 15 after driving it to the front right if the green. Bad doubles on 7 and 16. Very frustrating in the moment to not be able to follow up on great drives, but at the end of the day all that matters is I played one of the best golf courses on the planet and will fondly remember every hole. 42/40 for a tough 82.

The same twosome we paired with at North Berwick and St. Andrews New were right behind us today, and we enjoyed drinks in the bar afterwards. It's so cool coming on trips like this and meeting awesome people through golf!

 

1 tee shot

 

1 approach

 

2 tee shot

 

3 tee shot

 

3 approaching landing zone

 

4 approach

 

5 tee shot

 

5 green

 

6 tee shot

 

7 tee shot

 

8 green looking back towards tee

 

9 green

 

10 green

 

10 green from behind

 

11 approach

 

12 approach

 

13 tee shot

 

14 tee shot

 

14 approach

 

15 tee shot

 

17 tee shot

 

17 approach from top

 

17 approach from below

 

18 green

[scott_Donald]

I have never played there and it does look great from the pics, very jealous indeed!

[Yoshifan151]

18 minutes ago, scott_Donald said:

I have never played there and it does look great from the pics, very jealous indeed!

This is an absolute must play!

[hammergolf]

6 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Got out at Royal Dornoch today, I think that's the 2nd best golf course I've ever played, very very closely behind LACC North. Great hole variety and some seriously gnarly green complexes with tons of bunkering and really nasty slopes that will punish you hard if you even barely miss the green. Greens were very nice and rolled the best of the courses I've played so far. This was an excellent test of golf that demands some real precision, especially with some good wind like today and pins in tough spots for medal play earlier in the day.

I definitely didn't pass that test today LOL. Driver was very good, save for 1 bad drive the rest were as good as I could hit it. But with bad approach and ARG, there's only so many pars I can make. Putting was better with no 3 putts but a lot of burned edges that would've saved par. 1 birdie on 15 after driving it to the front right if the green. Bad doubles on 7 and 16. Very frustrating in the moment to not be able to follow up on great drives, but at the end of the day all that matters is I played one of the best golf courses on the planet and will fondly remember every hole. 42/40 for a tough 82.

The same twosome we paired with at North Berwick and St. Andrews New were right behind us today, and we enjoyed drinks in the bar afterwards. It's so cool coming on trips like this and meeting awesome people through golf!

 

1 tee shot

 

1 approach

 

2 tee shot

 

3 tee shot

 

3 approaching landing zone

 

4 approach

 

5 tee shot

 

5 green

 

6 tee shot

 

7 tee shot

 

8 green looking back towards tee

 

9 green

 

10 green

 

10 green from behind

 

11 approach

 

12 approach

 

13 tee shot

 

14 tee shot

 

14 approach

 

15 tee shot

 

17 tee shot

 

17 approach from top

 

17 approach from below

 

18 green

Dornoch is just special. Easy to see why Donald Ross designed the courses he did since that’s where he grew up. What did you make on #2? No doubt between it and #8 at Troon they have to be the most demanding short iron shot in golf when including wind. Tom Watson said #2 at Dornoch is the shortest Par 5 in the world. 

[hammergolf]

6 hours ago, scott_Donald said:

I have never played there and it does look great from the pics, very jealous indeed!

Oh man, you MUST play there. Only a 3hr drive from you and worth every minute. Surely RAGC members can arrange a couple rounds there for you.

[Yoshifan151]

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

Dornoch is just special. Easy to see why Donald Ross designed the courses he did since that’s where he grew up. What did you make on #2? No doubt between it and #8 at Troon they have to be the most demanding short iron shot in golf when including wind. Tom Watson said #2 at Dornoch is the shortest Par 5 in the world. 

Got a bogey. Clunked a 4 iron into the wind into the front right bunker, took 2 to get out then made the putt lol. Yardage measured like 180ish I believe?

Edited June 22 by Yoshifan151

[hammergolf]

8 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Got a bogey. Clunked a 4 iron into the wind into the front right bunker, took 2 to get out then made the putt lol. Yardage measured like 180ish I believe?

That’s not bad, such a tough hole. Much better to be in the bunker than have is roll down the slope.  

Edited June 22 by hammergolf

[Hawkeye77]

17 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Got out at Royal Dornoch today, I think that's the 2nd best golf course I've ever played, very very closely behind LACC North. Great hole variety and some seriously gnarly green complexes with tons of bunkering and really nasty slopes that will punish you hard if you even barely miss the green. Greens were very nice and rolled the best of the courses I've played so far. This was an excellent test of golf that demands some real precision, especially with some good wind like today and pins in tough spots for medal play earlier in the day.

I definitely didn't pass that test today LOL. Driver was very good, save for 1 bad drive the rest were as good as I could hit it. But with bad approach and ARG, there's only so many pars I can make. Putting was better with no 3 putts but a lot of burned edges that would've saved par. 1 birdie on 15 after driving it to the front right if the green. Bad doubles on 7 and 16. Very frustrating in the moment to not be able to follow up on great drives, but at the end of the day all that matters is I played one of the best golf courses on the planet and will fondly remember every hole. 42/40 for a tough 82.

The same twosome we paired with at North Berwick and St. Andrews New were right behind us today, and we enjoyed drinks in the bar afterwards. It's so cool coming on trips like this and meeting awesome people through golf!

 

1 tee shot

 

1 approach

 

2 tee shot

 

3 tee shot

 

3 approaching landing zone

 

4 approach

 

5 tee shot

 

5 green

 

6 tee shot

 

7 tee shot

 

8 green looking back towards tee

 

9 green

 

10 green

 

10 green from behind

 

11 approach

 

12 approach

 

13 tee shot

 

14 tee shot

 

14 approach

 

15 tee shot

 

17 tee shot

 

17 approach from top

 

17 approach from below

 

18 green

 

My first golf round ever in Scotland was a little nine hole course called Traigh we found while starting out our family trip in the Glenfinnan area.  My first planned 18 hole round was at Royal Dornoch on Father's Day with my wife and both of our daughters, one of whom really doesn't play any golf but managed to par the toughest hole on the course! 

 

I've told the story and won't retell about getting invited to play again as the guest of my caddie a few days later.

 

So I played it twice, in wonderful conditions, and it is simply an amazing course.  In the area, Brora (also played twice) still is the sentimental favorite for me and my golfing daughter, but Royal Dornoch is incredible. 

 

Not trying to demean the postage stamp in any way at all, but I think the second at Royal Dornoch is a tougher hole - I missed an easy birdie putt on the postage stamp so come on, the hole can't be much, lol!  Full disclosure - played No. 8 at Royal Troon on a fair weather day as well, just into breeze but played all of 150 the day we played it.

 

One of the rounds I had to agree with Watson - the second to the second is the hardest shot in golf.

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

That’s not bad, such a tough hole. Much better to be in the bunker than have is roll down the slope.  

Hmm, Played it twice, first day caddy comments “some of our members layup here”, ignoring that I hit into front left bunker.  Only out is away from the green into the heavy rough towards the houses, then hit a semi flop onto the green, rolls off the other side.  3 more to get on with putter up the very steep bank, two putts, eight.  
Next day, same caddy, I layup, make 4 - a Watson birdie.  😉