Monahan on the way out

[jimecherry]

56 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

😂 Yeah, no.  Sorry, the Saudi’s will never control the PGA Tour or any other professional sports league in this country.  They already swung and missed badly on this one.  The best they could ever have ever hoped for is/was a minority stake in the Tour for a King’s ransom, but even that now seems as unlikely as Yassir ever donning a green jacket.  PIF and LIV will be a sorry footnote in U.S. golf history when all is said and done.

money talks and i hope your willing to eat these words in 3 years ;}

[SnowbirdTom]

15 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

money talks and i hope your willing to eat these words in 3 years ;}

Remember these two words if LIV ever gets it’s claws on the PGA Tour - independent contractor.  They can buy the tour, but the players aren’t obligated to go with it.

Edited June 18 by SnowbirdTom

[bcjim]

30 minutes ago, SnowbirdTom said:

Remember these two words if LIV ever gets it’s claws on the PGA Tour - independent contractor.  They can buy the tour, but the players aren’t obligated to go with it.

Also,  many events,  perhaps most, rely on a local entity to stage large parts of  it and those entities are not obligated to continue affiliating with the pga tour beyond any contratual agreement in place.  

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

money talks and i hope your willing to eat these words in 3 years ;}

 

How does PIF control of the pga tour come about in 3 years? 
 

The money talks answer hasn’t moved them any closer, in fact, they keep spending more but it seems there are even more obstacles and they are farther away from even being able to make any investment at all, much less control. 
 

So, explain how this actually happens, you seem quite certain of this. 

Edited June 18 by bscinstnct

[jimecherry]

30 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

How does PIF control of the pga tour come about in 3 years? 
 

The money talks answer hasn’t moved them any closer, in fact, they keep spending more but it seems there are even more obstacles and they are farther away from even being able to make any investment at all, much less control. 
 

So, explain how this actually happens, you seem quite certain of this. 

i'm a cynic i dont really care how it happens it just does like when you guys were saying liv would be dead after 2 years or when you said they would never get a tv deal, or when you thought the pga tour would never talk to pif after calling them evil on tv.

[Titleist99]

29 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

i'm a cynic i dont really care how it happens it just does like when you guys were saying liv would be dead after 2 years or when you said they would never get a tv deal, or when you thought the pga tour would never talk to pif after calling them evil on tv.

 

Just to put things into perspective:

 

" like when you guys were saying liv would be dead after 2 years"

 

A normal, unprofitable business would have been, but this one is sponsored by a foreign state.

 

" when you said they would never get a tv deal,"

 

We still don't know if they're paying or getting paid.

 

"or when you thought the pga tour would never talk to pif after calling them evil on tv."

 

Three years and counting, still no talks.

 

*Things might change, though. The new guy might figure out a way to get Saudi money without looking too bad. 🙂

[WesternRacing]

3 hours ago, jimecherry said:

money talks and i hope your willing to eat these words in 3 years ;}

 

Sorry, but you can’t actually be serious.  You actually think that the Saudis will be the controlling owner of the PGA Tour within three years?  Are you a business professional?  Do you have any idea how insane that idea is, not just for financial reasons, but for social and political reasons?  It will NEVER happen.

 

Again, there is a slim chance the Saudi’s come in as a minority, mostly silent partner.  Still not likely, for multiple reasons, but that chance is somewhere north of zero.

 

Edited June 18 by WesternRacing

[WesternRacing]

3 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

Remember these two words if LIV ever gets it’s claws on the PGA Tour - independent contractor.  They can buy the tour, but the players aren’t obligated to go with it.

 

They can’t buy the Tour unless the owners want to sell and there is zero chance the owners would ever sell the Tour to the Saudis for any amount of money.  Nor would Congress allow them to do so.  It’s a total impossibility.

[munichop]

7 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Just for clarification. How did JM do that?

 

I know that Jay Monahan received an increase in 2022 and 2023.

By staying employed and telling the people who controlled his fate what they wanted to hear.

[munichop]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

 

Just to put things into perspective:

 

" like when you guys were saying liv would be dead after 2 years"

 

A normal, unprofitable business would have been, but this one is sponsored by a foreign state.

 

" when you said they would never get a tv deal,"

 

We still don't know if they're paying or getting paid.

 

"or when you thought the pga tour would never talk to pif after calling them evil on tv."

 

Three years and counting, still no talks.

 

*Things might change, though. The new guy might figure out a way to get Saudi money without looking too bad. 🙂

Of the interested parties who has the most money and NEVER needs  a financial return on their investment? I think it is hard for a lot of people to think outside of the typical profit motive approach to things. 
As an example the liv tour needed parking for an event and the adjacent farm didn’t want to rent the farm so they bought it instead. The money they have put into this isn’t even a rounding error compared to their resources.

[EddieWouldGo]

Can somebody explain to me what these LIV cheerleaders personally stand to gain if the Saudis take over the PGA?

The product is trash. The LIV golfers only have to get their game sharp 4 times a year, and spend the rest golfing in glorified club championships wearing shorts.

 

[StoutKing]

17 minutes ago, munichop said:

Of the interested parties who has the most money and NEVER needs  a financial return on their investment? I think it is hard for a lot of people to think outside of the typical profit motive approach to things. 
As an example the liv tour needed parking for an event and the adjacent farm didn’t want to rent the farm so they bought it instead. The money they have put into this isn’t even a rounding error compared to their resources.

It's only embarrassing to those who run it how badly they overpaid golfers that nobody is interested in.

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, munichop said:

Of the interested parties who has the most money and NEVER needs  a financial return on their investment? I think it is hard for a lot of people to think outside of the typical profit motive approach to things. 
As an example the liv tour needed parking for an event and the adjacent farm didn’t want to rent the farm so they bought it instead. The money they have put into this isn’t even a rounding error compared to their resources.

 

Lol yes everyone knows it’s a sovereign wealth fund. PIF is ranked #6 behind Kuwait

 

But they have gone nowhere with attempted control of the tour. Their last offer of investment was turned down by the tour. 
 

 

 

[munichop]

15 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol yes everyone knows it’s a sovereign wealth fund. PIF is ranked #6 behind Kuwait

 

But they have gone nowhere with attempted control of the tour. Their last offer of investment was turned down by the tour. 
 

 

 

It will be interesting if things change now that JM is changing positions. The private equity team will only ignore that kind of money if they keep making their expected return. 

[Titleist99]

32 minutes ago, munichop said:

Of the interested parties who has the most money and NEVER needs  a financial return on their investment? I think it is hard for a lot of people to think outside of the typical profit motive approach to things. 
As an example the liv tour needed parking for an event and the adjacent farm didn’t want to rent the farm so they bought it instead. The money they have put into this isn’t even a rounding error compared to their resources.

Let's be clear. The entire Saudi budget is not exclusively for golf. They are trying to build a city that will rival Dubai. Vision 2030, which has evolved into Vision 2034.

 

So, let's not claim that the funds for recreation are unlimited.

 

IMO

 

 

[Titleist99]

33 minutes ago, EddieWouldGo said:

Can somebody explain to me what these LIV cheerleaders personally stand to gain if the Saudis take over the PGA?

The product is trash. The LIV golfers only have to get their game sharp 4 times a year, and spend the rest golfing in glorified club championships wearing shorts.

 

 

Team golf, I would imagine. Phil and Greg said that it was the future of golf. 🤣

[ggee6887]

The Ryder Cup and President’s Cup to a lesser extent draw the interest they do because of the emotional investment people have in the teams.

 

There’s very little emotional investment in the LIV teams from what I can see.  Whether it’s because there’s no regional connection, underwhelming team names or underwhelming players is anyone’s guess.

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, munichop said:

It will be interesting if things change now that JM is changing positions. The private equity team will only ignore that kind of money if they keep making their expected return. 

The "private equity team" isn't in control. Per the new guy, the tour is run by the players now.

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, munichop said:

It will be interesting if things change now that JM is changing positions. The private equity team will only ignore that kind of money if they keep making their expected return. 

 

Those aren’t really traditional PE guys who typically sell a company within 3-5 years. They definitely wouldn’t expect to make much of a return within five years from their investment in the PGA Tour.

 

PGA Tour Enterprises is just getting started and has a long way to go. 

 

Like one SSG investor, Arthur Blank, he’s a billionaire cofounder of Home Depot. Owns the Atlanta Falcons. 
 

He bought the team in 23 years ago. 
 

Or hedge fund guy Steve Cohen, worth 16 billion and owns the Mets. Did he buy the team for profit or is the fun of running an MLB team his main motivation?

 

The SSG guys may stick with this for a long time. If they bought into this at a valuation of 12 billion, it’s not a stretch to think they would look to sell their stake eventually at a valuation of 30-40+ billion for pga tour enterprises. 
 

 

 

[cdnglf]

A tarted-up used 747 costs a lot less than running a golf league nobody watches. Just saying.

[WesternRacing]

3 hours ago, munichop said:

Of the interested parties who has the most money and NEVER needs  a financial return on their investment? I think it is hard for a lot of people to think outside of the typical profit motive approach to things. 
As an example the liv tour needed parking for an event and the adjacent farm didn’t want to rent the farm so they bought it instead. The money they have put into this isn’t even a rounding error compared to their resources.

 

So what?  Money can’t buy you anything if the other side doesn’t want to sell to you.  PIF will never own the PGA Tour.  They’ll be lucky if they ever get a tiny minority interest in it.

[WesternRacing]

3 hours ago, munichop said:

It will be interesting if things change now that JM is changing positions. The private equity team will only ignore that kind of money if they keep making their expected return. 

 

But SSG doesn’t control the Tour. And the valuation that would be required to get SSG a return on investment that would interest them would be north of $36 billion.  And the asset that the PIF would be buying would be valueless once the deal closed, as the Tour would lose a large percentage of its players and its fan base.  Which is one of many reasons such a deal would never get done.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

PGA Tour Enterprises is just getting started and has a long way to go. 

 

Like one SSG investor, Arthur Blank, he’s a billionaire cofounder of Home Depot. Owns the Atlanta Falcons

 

Just an example of Arthur Blank's commitment to the PGAT:

 

The dude owns PGAT Superstore. Yep, the same one doing a lot of advertising during the tournaments.

[munichop]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Those aren’t really traditional PE guys who typically sell a company within 3-5 years. They definitely wouldn’t expect to make much of a return within five years from their investment in the PGA Tour.

 

PGA Tour Enterprises is just getting started and has a long way to go. 

 

Like one SSG investor, Arthur Blank, he’s a billionaire cofounder of Home Depot. Owns the Atlanta Falcons. 
 

He bought the team in 23 years ago. 
 

Or hedge fund guy Steve Cohen, worth 16 billion and owns the Mets. Did he buy the team for profit or is the fun of running an MLB team his main motivation?

 

The SSG guys may stick with this for a long time. If they bought into this at a valuation of 12 billion, it’s not a stretch to think they would look to sell their stake eventually at a valuation of 30-40+ billion for pga tour enterprises. 
 

 

 

So these SSG guys don't need to make money but LIV has to or the Saudi PIF is not successful?  Seems a double standard to me.  One thing I suspect is the PGA tour payouts and reforms for their top players would never have happened if LIV didn't exist.  JM never had trouble sticking it to playerd not named Woods when he felt like it.  Now they get guaranteed checks multiple times a year.  I doubt most of that would never have happened if not for LIV. 

[TiScape]

Man, I try to follow this thread and it reminds me of why I dropped economics and business in college and switched to Sociology! 
😂

 

 

[WesternRacing]

44 minutes ago, munichop said:

So these SSG guys don't need to make money but LIV has to or the Saudi PIF is not successful?  Seems a double standard to me.  One thing I suspect is the PGA tour payouts and reforms for their top players would never have happened if LIV didn't exist.  JM never had trouble sticking it to playerd not named Woods when he felt like it.  Now they get guaranteed checks multiple times a year.  I doubt most of that would never have happened if not for LIV. 

 

You’re talking in circles and straw men.  Didn’t go to business school I’m guessing, but that doesn’t stop you from making wild accusations and speculation.  Par for the course these days.

 

LIV fanboys doth protest too much I’m afraid.

[cdnglf]

1 hour ago, munichop said:

So these SSG guys don't need to make money but LIV has to or the Saudi PIF is not successful?  Seems a double standard to me.  One thing I suspect is the PGA tour payouts and reforms for their top players would never have happened if LIV didn't exist.  JM never had trouble sticking it to playerd not named Woods when he felt like it.  Now they get guaranteed checks multiple times a year.  I doubt most of that would never have happened if not for LIV. 

 

They got guaranteed cheques multiple times a year before too. WGCs, Zozo Championship, etc.

LIV had nothing to do with the new TV deals.

[Short Pete]

11 hours ago, jimecherry said:

i'm a cynic i dont really care how it happens it just does like when you guys were saying liv would be dead after 2 years or when you said they would never get a tv deal, or when you thought the pga tour would never talk to pif after calling them evil on tv.

LIV is dead. Death simply hasn’t had the courage to tell them yet. 
 

Most if not all things that were done on the PGA Tour certainly were already in negotiation when LIV came along. They have healthy ratings, the deal with SSG, the purses still get bigger, they have the Majors which produced pretty good entertainment. Now the few LIV marquee players are near the end of their contracts, no major player has left the PGA Tour for almost two years. Monahan has done a few things right if you ask me. He separated the Tour from the circus, always left the door open a tiny little bit without really wanting to completely open it, and let LIV die away slowly with short pants and loud music. 

[Duct Tape]

Title of thread needs to be changed to LIV part 2

[SnowbirdTom]

4 hours ago, TiScape said:

Man, I try to follow this thread and it reminds me of why I dropped economics and business in college and switched to Sociology! 
😂

 

 

 

Shoulda tried Scientology to follow the logic some espouse here. /SMH